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Re: Protecting Our Community

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  • melinafzal
    Your attempts to build community support in opposition to Jimmy Valentine s Tavern is based on your personal opinion. Now it is an obsessive crusade which has
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 6, 2008
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      Your attempts to build community support in opposition to Jimmy
      Valentine's Tavern is based on your personal opinion. Now it is an
      obsessive crusade which has taken a great deal of our community's time
      and resources to have a legitimate business shut down. Can anyone from
      MPD provide data that directly links crime activity to the Tavern?

      As it has been proven time and time again economic development
      decreases levels of crime. We have been watching it on H Street. Look
      at how economic development has improved U st. Economic development
      will move down Bladensburg. That is inevitable. Thus, the owners are
      already positively contributing to our community. By the way, the
      owners live in Trinidad, there is even more of an investment in our
      neighborhood.

      Your continual exaggerated efforts to shut Jimmy's down are
      provocative attempts to get what you want they way you want it. Based
      from my conversations with our community, including several immediate
      neighbors of Jimmy's Tavern, there are no issues with the Tavern. This
      battle you are choosing to "valiantly" fight is not contributing
      positively to building a neighborhood. When individuals get to this
      point, they become detriment to the larger picture. To clear the
      record this is your battle. You have just convinced a few people the
      owners are bad and immoral people. I am not sure you are in place to
      judge anyone.

      There are many things we need to do to make Trinidad safe. I think it
      would be outstanding if as a community we can address the core
      problems that lead to senseless killings and other crimes (ie gang
      prevention, substance abuse education, empowerment programs,etc). Not
      only address but implement sustaining action. We need more than vigils
      and walk throughs. I have to wonder if the family members of the
      individuals who have died are concerned about a bar that has clientele
      that are far from violent criminals.

      Furthermore, community building is about what is best for the greater
      of the whole -it isn't about the individual needs getting met- the
      result is a peaceful environment where everyone is regarded and
      respected. Change in a community happens when there is will and
      motivation to create that change. This is an appropriate time for this
      plug: If you are a Trinidad/Ivy City/Carver Terrace resident- willing
      to role up your sleeve to make change happen our Community Work Group
      meets at the Trinidad Rec Center the Wed after our PSA mtgs @ 6:30.

      My apologies for hijacking this listserve to respond to the original
      post. No means is it my intentions to fuel any fires- I am exhausted
      of this drama and think we need to move on and start addressing real
      issues.

      peace,
      Melina















      --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "ladytrini12" <ladytrini12@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > I don't understand how you can try to link Jimmy Valentines to the
      > violence in the neighborhood. That comment is ridiculous and
      > inflammatory as per usual!
      >
      >
      > " Increasingly, this community which is partially located in Trinidad,
      > > has endured horrific levels of violence, forcing our police to
      respond
      > > strongly...."
      >
    • k3
      I don t know this place, but ... Assuming that attempts to get any illegalities corrected have repeatedly failed, then trying to have it shut down is surely an
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 6, 2008
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        I don't know this place, but ...
         
        Assuming that attempts to get any illegalities corrected have repeatedly failed, then trying to have it shut down is surely an option.
         
        But, the failed attempts -- along with any unaddressed offenses -- need to be listed concisely. Provide specific instances of cause and effect, not just supposition. If "the facts" are on your side, there's no need for indignation (always a last resort).
         
        Even centuries ago (when attempts to strictly regulate the morals of others were -- to a certain degree -- tolerated), many non "family oriented" businesses existed and thrived. This rhetoric only undermines your effort.
         
        It seems to me that your envelope is totally overwhelming your message.
         
        ----Original Message-----
        From: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of khenderson029@...
        Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 11:40 PM
        To: mpd-5d@yahoogroups.com; Eckington@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: edgewoodcivicassociation@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [MPD-5D] Protecting Our Community

        On Wednesday members of the ANC 5B10 community valiantly defended our right to a safe, orderly and peaceful community by protesting the liquor license renewal of Jimmy Valentine's Lonely Hearts Club, located at 1103 Bladensburg Road, NE. Google Jimmy Valentine's Lonely Hearts Club and you will find references to "...a dive located in a hood called Trinidad..." along with an ode to a dead drug dealer "Goon" and other indications that the establishment is not a family oriented business.
         
      • khenderson029@aol.com
        Ms. Donnelly: I have included the entire section from which you extracted your partial quote. It reads as follows: Increasingly, this community which is
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 6, 2008
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          Ms. Donnelly:
           
          I have included the entire section from which you extracted your partial quote. It reads as follows:
           
          Increasingly, this community which is partially located in Trinidad, has endured horrific levels of violence, forcing our police to respond strongly and often. We believe the police cannot fight crime alone and we must address all elements that contribute to crime and disorder, including protesting alcohol establishments that operate contrary to the law.
           
          Your response is interesting. Do you disagree with my point that alcohol establishments that operate outside of the law contribute to crime and disorder in a community? If so, I strongly encourage you to contact the National Institute for Drug Abuse, which can provide you with ample research confirming the increase in crime and disorder in communities that have businesses that sell alcohol; this is especially true for businesses that operate outside of the law. Jimmy Valentine's Lonely Hearts Club is located within 1200 feet of six other establishments that sell alcohol and is quickly becoming part of the problem because of the trash, unattractive, damaged facade and disgruntled owner. Let's not forget the police have been called to the establishment more than once.
           
          The fact remains that the majority of citizens residing in ANC 5B10 do not support this establishment, which is located within ANC 5B10. It has been my experience that the most vocal supporters of this establishment are Mr. Thorp's friends and persons who generally live outside of ANC 5B10. If you take issue with my stance to advocate for my community, so be it. I believe our community is worth fighting for and we deserve increased public safety not less. No community should have to tolerate a business that negatively affects the area in which it is located.
           
          Sincerely,
           
          Kathy Henderson



        • khenderson029@aol.com
          Melina: Your support for this establishment underscores your friendship with Mr. Thorp and the fact that you are the deejay for the establishment. Your
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 6, 2008
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            Melina:
             
            Your support for this establishment underscores your friendship with Mr. Thorp and the fact that you are the deejay for the establishment. Your comments reflect your bias and unwillingness to admit that there are clear problems with Mr. Thorp's establishment. What you refer to as a "crusade" is our concern for the peace, order and quiet of our community.
             
            Finally, you chastised our officers on this listserv for increasing efforts to arrest prostitutes on West Virginia Ave. last year after many of us complained. Your position then and now relieves me of any hope that you will support our community's quest for increased public safety. The majority of citizens residing in ANC 5B10 do not support this establishment.
             
            Sincerely,
             
            Kathy Henderson



          • Javi Sanchez
            Mrs. Henderson -   I live here in Trinidad and by no means am not a BFF of Mr. Thorpe as you write in your email.  As always in any situation, there is
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 7, 2008
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              Mrs. Henderson -
               
              I live here in Trinidad and by no means am not a "BFF" of Mr. Thorpe as you write in your email.  As always in any situation, there is always different point of views; so with that in mind can you please show the rest of the community proof that crime is directly linked to this establishment other than your rants and drama.  Otherwise let's get on with bigger and more important issues that affect people in Trinidad and Ivy City.


              --- On Sat, 9/6/08, khenderson029@... <khenderson029@...> wrote:
              From: khenderson029@... <khenderson029@...>
              Subject: Re: [MPD-5D] Re: Protecting Our Community
              To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
              Cc: crm_112@...
              Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 3:33 PM

              Ms. Donnelly:
               
              I have included the entire section from which you extracted your partial quote. It reads as follows:
               
              Increasingly, this community which is partially located in Trinidad, has endured horrific levels of violence, forcing our police to respond strongly and often. We believe the police cannot fight crime alone and we must address all elements that contribute to crime and disorder, including protesting alcohol establishments that operate contrary to the law.
               
              Your response is interesting. Do you disagree with my point that alcohol establishments that operate outside of the law contribute to crime and disorder in a community? If so, I strongly encourage you to contact the National Institute for Drug Abuse, which can provide you with ample research confirming the increase in crime and disorder in communities that have businesses that sell alcohol; this is especially true for businesses that operate outside of the law. Jimmy Valentine's Lonely Hearts Club is located within 1200 feet of six other establishments that sell alcohol and is quickly becoming part of the problem because of the trash, unattractive, damaged facade and disgruntled owner. Let's not forget the police have been called to the establishment more than once.
               
              The fact remains that the majority of citizens residing in ANC 5B10 do not support this establishment, which is located within ANC 5B10. It has been my experience that the most vocal supporters of this establishment are Mr. Thorp's friends and persons who generally live outside of ANC 5B10. If you take issue with my stance to advocate for my community, so be it. I believe our community is worth fighting for and we deserve increased public safety not less. No community should have to tolerate a business that negatively affects the area in which it is located.
               
              Sincerely,
               
              Kathy Henderson




            • khenderson029@aol.com
              Good Evening: The purpose of this listserv is to provide a common forum for residents to address crime and public safety issues in Ward 5. This is not a forum
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 7, 2008
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                Good Evening:
                 
                The purpose of this listserv is to provide a common forum for residents to address crime and public safety issues in Ward 5. This is not a forum for personal attacks; most of us know this and adhere to rules that promote common courtesy and civility. All members contributing to this listserv should be able to address differing points of view and even openly disagree without engaging in offensive ad hoc attacks.
                 
                Let us agree to move forward and stay focused on public safety matters; all of us benefit when we do so.
                 
                Sincerely,
                 
                Kathy Henderson



              • nicole donnelly
                Ms. Henderson- I never stated that I believed a business should be allowed to operate outside the law. Nor did I take issue with your advocacy for your
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 8, 2008
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                  Ms. Henderson-

                  I never stated that I believed a business should be allowed to operate outside the law. Nor did I take issue with your advocacy for your community (unlike certain VP candidates, I really don't think community organizers are people we should be denigrating- but that is a topic for different listservs). I requested 1. a link to the ode you referred to in which you link a dead drug dealer to the establishment , 2. further information on any citations they may have already received and 3. further information on any steps that may have been taken to remedy the situation with the owners. And as a patron of the establishment I presented an alternate viewpoint to others who may not be familiar with it. I would think having a locally owned business in a community with horrific levels of violence would be an asset to the community since the owners would be invested in both the success of community and the business since it is where they live and work. If the police have been called multiple times, have their been any citations from the calls?

                  It is my understanding that it is next to impossible to obtain a liquor/ tavern license in the city without entering a voluntary agreement with the ANC responsible for the area for the location the business operates within. Doesn't this process also allow for the community to raise objections to the issuance of the license? And if the majority of the community is opposed and there are continued legal violations and citations, aren't mechanisms in place to close the business?

                  I took an interest in your post when it was sent to multiple groups in 5D because, as stated, I have been a patron at the establishment for a year now and I do enjoy going there so I would miss it if it were gone. I was not aware of the establishment having received any citations and wanted more information on that. I was genuinely curious as to whether there was a middle ground here but as I searched unsuccessfully for the ode you mentioned I just continued to turn up more information to your opposition to the establishment from the beginning. It seems like my belief anything positive could come out of the situation was misplaced.

                  Nicole Donnelly

                  On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 3:33 PM, <khenderson029@...> wrote:

                  Ms. Donnelly:
                   
                  I have included the entire section from which you extracted your partial quote. It reads as follows:
                   
                  Increasingly, this community which is partially located in Trinidad, has endured horrific levels of violence, forcing our police to respond strongly and often. We believe the police cannot fight crime alone and we must address all elements that contribute to crime and disorder, including protesting alcohol establishments that operate contrary to the law.
                   
                  Your response is interesting. Do you disagree with my point that alcohol establishments that operate outside of the law contribute to crime and disorder in a community? If so, I strongly encourage you to contact the National Institute for Drug Abuse, which can provide you with ample research confirming the increase in crime and disorder in communities that have businesses that sell alcohol; this is especially true for businesses that operate outside of the law. Jimmy Valentine's Lonely Hearts Club is located within 1200 feet of six other establishments that sell alcohol and is quickly becoming part of the problem because of the trash, unattractive, damaged facade and disgruntled owner. Let's not forget the police have been called to the establishment more than once.
                   
                  The fact remains that the majority of citizens residing in ANC 5B10 do not support this establishment, which is located within ANC 5B10. It has been my experience that the most vocal supporters of this establishment are Mr. Thorp's friends and persons who generally live outside of ANC 5B10. If you take issue with my stance to advocate for my community, so be it. I believe our community is worth fighting for and we deserve increased public safety not less. No community should have to tolerate a business that negatively affects the area in which it is located.
                   
                  Sincerely,
                   
                  Kathy Henderson




                • khenderson029@aol.com
                  Ms. Donnelly: My neighbors and I found the ode to Goon on the Jimmy Valentine s Lonely Hearts Club website. The owner may have changed the content since we
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 8, 2008
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                    Ms. Donnelly:
                     
                    My neighbors and I found the ode to "Goon" on the Jimmy Valentine's Lonely Hearts Club website. The owner may have changed the content since we printed out exerpts for the Alcohol Beverage Control Board to evaluate. We also submitted several photographs at the hearing labeled as exhibit 1, which clearly depict a significant amount of trash behind the establishment at different times. I also posted the picture of the large, unleashed dog finishing up a meal of food trash in front of the establishment, which was taken on 8-31-08.
                     
                    The '88 cadillac that the owners used to ferry patrons was ticketed, booted and towed by the Department of Public Works because said vehicle parked repeatedly in our neighborhood in violation of the posted street signs. As a result our streets were not cleaned on several occasions. The owner has also operated outside of their stated business hours, generating loud music and noise at 6:00 a.m. on a Sunday. The ABC investigator's report stated the police were called to the establishment more than once. I have requested a detailed accounting of the calls from MPD.
                     
                    Finally, there is a voluntary agreement (that the owners have already violated) between the 5B Commission and the establishment. No person in ANC 5B10 had any input into this agreement because the owner went straight to the Ward 5 Councilmember and Commission 5B chair for support instead of meeting with us to address our concerns. The owner is obviously not interested in our community and couldn't care less about operating appropriately and keeping the premises clean. Our concerns are reasonable and we have an absolute right to address them. Again, the majority of ANC 5B10 residents do not support the establishment.
                     
                    Sincerely,
                     
                    Kathy Henderson



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