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Re: [MPD-5D] "Fireworks Neighborhood Safety Emergency Declaration of 2008"

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  • Joshua Maye
    But once again, if you can t enforce a partial ban on the illegal ones then why should we waste more manpower to attempt a complete ban when the partial ban
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 5, 2008
      But once again, if you can't enforce a partial ban on the illegal ones then why should we waste more manpower to attempt a complete ban when the partial ban has yielded no good results?

      Joshua

      "The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them" -Albert Einstein


      On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 12:29 PM, <k.jarrell01@...> wrote:

      A total ban would be much easier to implement eliminating the need for officers having to cover the extensive list of currently illegal products verses products that are still allowed to be sold and set off.
      Many times,   different vendors package the same illegal product under various names and identities. Thus creating the problem with even being able to tell the difference.   I think a major problem is the early detection of the illegal products by the Fire Marshall, and possibly DCRA.
       
      The potential for a major fire from these fireworks is also a real concern.  Let's face facts here too,  if one of these older row houses catches fire,  the damage could easily result in several homes going up in flames. 
       
      Take a look this morning around your neighborhood and observe the mess that is left.  Sherman Circle, has empty boxes piled up.  The boxes were so big that I saw people carrying at least 5-6 of them away this morning presumable to use as storage boxes.  8Th street has enough debris in the street that I observed a man with a leaf blower blowing the debris into a pile.  This all helps to stop up the drains and overflow system designed to remove the rain water run off from our streets.
       
      Last night as I posted,  the extreme noise didn't stop in my neighborhood until after 2:18 AM. This is a real imposition.  I can't lay around in the bed til noon to catch up on my sleep.  I have responsibility that directs me to be up much earlier.  When other people's fun creates an extreme burden on others then it has to be brought under control.
       
      Keith Jarrell 
       
      --
      In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
      Martin Luther King Jr.
       
      -------------- Original message --------------
      From: "Joshua Maye" <joshua.maye@...>

      I agree with Matt that how effective is a complete ban going to
      accomplish if the City can't enforce the ban on the fireworks that are
      already illegal. Enforce the ban on the illegal fireworks.

      On 7/5/08, Matt Ashburn <matt@...> wrote:
      > What benefit would an all-out ban provide? The dangerous fireworks
      > (bottle rockets, firecrackers, etc.) are already illegal and are not
      > to be sold in the district. Additional bans on sparklers are not the
      > solution.
      >
      > What's the logic behind a ban of all fireworks, when the existing ban
      > covers all the dangerous ones and is ineffective?
      >
      > Matt
      >
      >
      > On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 1:15 AM, <khenderson029@...> wrote:
      >> Good Evening:
      >>
      >> I am deeply disappointed that only Councilmembers Graham and Wells voted
      >> in
      >> favor of this legislation that would have provided relief from the
      >> negative
      >> impact of exploding fireworks in our neighborhoods. Despite numerous
      >> citizen
      >> complaints and four versions of a bill to ban fireworks we still have no
      >> relief from the noisy and dangerous onslaught. Some out of control
      >> neighbors
      >> deliberately aimed flying incendiary material at other neighbor's homes.
      >>
      >> Tonight was no different from past July 4th holidays in that we were
      >> subjected to endless explosions of fireworks that filled the air with
      >> acrid
      >> smoke and noise. Four hours and three police calls later the police still
      >> have not responded; they are clearly stretched thin responding to numerous
      >> similar calls.
      >>
      >> Are we resigned to simply suffering in silence or planning to be out of
      >> town
      >> during forthcoming July 4th holidays? If not, I believe we need to revisit
      >> this issue and actively advocate to protect our public safety. There is no
      >> legitimate reason why our neighborhoods must become venues for endless
      >> explosions every year.
      >>
      >> Sincerely,
      >>
      >> Kathy Henderson
      >>
      >>
      >> ________________________________
      >> Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used
      >> cars.
      >>
      >

      --
      MIDN Joshua Maye
      United States Naval Sea Cadet Corps
      (202) 270-4749 Mobile

      "The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level
      of thinking that created them" -Albert Einstein

      Policing for Prevention
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    • DCReardon@AOL.COM
      Its one nite out of the whole year, and its alot of fun for alot of people.? Were there any fires actually caused last nite?? Last year I was at Bethany Beach
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 5, 2008
        Its one nite out of the whole year, and its alot of fun for alot of people.  Were there any fires actually caused last nite?  Last year I was at Bethany Beach and the city sponsored fireworks caught a house on fire cause of the wind, so that can happen anywhere, legal or not.  We have a huge display on our street every year, but we sweep up afterwards, make sure everything is cleaned up.

        ITS ONE NITE of the YEAR.

        We have more things to worry about in this city than fireworks.


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Joshua Maye <joshua.maye@...>
        To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 1:44 pm
        Subject: Re: [MPD-5D] "Fireworks Neighborhood Safety Emergency Declaration of 2008"

        But once again, if you can't enforce a partial ban on the illegal ones then why should we waste more manpower to attempt a complete ban when the partial ban has yielded no good results?

        Joshua

        "The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them" -Albert Einstein


        On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 12:29 PM, <k.jarrell01@...> wrote:
        A total ban would be much easier to implement eliminating the need for officers having to cover the extensive list of currently illegal products verses products that are still allowed to be sold and set off.
        Many times,   different vendors package the same illegal product under various names and identities. Thus creating the problem with even being able to tell the difference.   I think a major problem is the early detection of the illegal products by the Fire Marshall, and possibly DCRA.
         
        The potential for a major fire from these fireworks is also a real concern.  Let's face facts here too,  if one of these older row houses catches fire,  the damage could easily result in several homes going up in flames. 
         
        Take a look this morning around your neighborhood and observe the mess that is left.  Sherman Circle, has empty boxes piled up.  The boxes were so big that I saw people carrying at least 5-6 of them away this morning presumable to use as storage boxes.  8Th street has enough debris in the street that I observed a man with a leaf blower blowing the debris into a pile.  This all helps to stop up the drains and overflow system designed to remove the rain water run off from our streets.
         
        Last night as I posted,  the extreme noise didn't stop in my neighborhood until after 2:18 AM. This is a real imposition.  I can't lay around in the bed til noon to catch up on my sleep.  I have responsibility that directs me to be up much earlier.  When other people's fun creates an extreme burden on others then it has to be brought under control.
         
        Keith Jarrell 
         
        --
        In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
        Martin Luther King Jr.
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        From: "Joshua Maye" <joshua.maye@...>
        I agree with Matt that how effective is a complete ban going to
        accomplish if the City can't enforce the ban on the fireworks that are
        already illegal. Enforce the ban on the illegal fireworks.

        On 7/5/08, Matt Ashburn <matt@...> wrote:
        > What benefit would an all-out ban provide? The dangerous fireworks
        > (bottle rockets, firecrackers, etc.) are already illegal and are not
        > to be sold in the district. Additional bans on sparklers are not the
        > solution.
        >
        > What's the logic behind a ban of all fireworks, when the existing ban
        > covers all the dangerous ones and is ineffective?
        >
        > Matt
        >
        >
        > On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 1:15 AM, <khenderson029@...> wrote:
        >> Good Evening:
        >>
        >> I am deeply disappointed that only Councilmembers Graham and Wells voted
        >> in
        >> favor of this legislation that would have provided relief from the
        >> negative
        >> impact of exploding fireworks in our neighborhoods. Despite numerous
        >> citizen
        >> complaints and four versions of a bill to ban fireworks we still have no
        >> relief from the noisy and dangerous onslaught. Some out of control
        >> neighbors
        >> deliberately aimed flying incendiary material at other neighbor's homes.
        >>
        >> Tonight was no different from past July 4th holidays in that we were
        >> subjected to endless explosions of fireworks that filled the air with
        >> acrid
        >> smoke and noise. Four hours and three police calls later the police still
        >> have not responded; they are clearly stretched thin responding to numerous
        >> similar calls.
        >>
        >> Are we resigned to simply suffering in silence or planning to be out of
        >> town
        >> during forthcoming July 4th holidays? If not, I believe we need to revisit
        >> this issue and actively advocate to protect our public safety. There is no
        >> legitimate reason why our neighborhoods must become venues for endless
        >> explosions every year.
        >>
        >> Sincerely,
        >>
        >> Kathy Henderson
        >>
        >>
        >> ________________________________
        >> Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used
        >> cars.
        >>
        >

        --
        MIDN Joshua Maye
        United States Naval Sea Cadet Corps
        (202) 270-4749 Mobile

        "The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level
        of thinking that created them" -Albert Einstein
        Policing for Prevention
        Yahoo! Groups
        to help you find
        balance in your life.
        Check out the
        Stay up to speed
        on all things Groups!
        Yahoo! Groups
        A resource for Curves
        and weight loss.
        .
        _._,___



        --

      • Keith Jarrell
        Clearly u just don t get it ... From: Joshua Maye Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 1:44 PM To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 5, 2008
          Clearly u just don't get it

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Joshua Maye <joshua.maye@...>
          Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 1:44 PM
          To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [MPD-5D] "Fireworks Neighborhood Safety Emergency Declaration of 2008"

          But once again, if you can't enforce a partial ban on the illegal ones then
          why should we waste more manpower to attempt a complete ban when the partial
          ban has yielded no good results?

          Joshua

          "The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of
          thinking that created them" -Albert Einstein


          On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 12:29 PM, <k.jarrell01@...> wrote:

          > A total ban would be much easier to implement eliminating the need for
          > officers having to cover the extensive list of currently illegal products
          > verses products that are still allowed to be sold and set off.
          > Many times, different vendors package the same illegal product under
          > various names and identities. Thus creating the problem with even being able
          > to tell the difference. I think a major problem is the early detection of
          > the illegal products by the Fire Marshall, and possibly DCRA.
          >
          > The potential for a major fire from these fireworks is also a real
          > concern. Let's face facts here too, if one of these older row houses
          > catches fire, the damage could easily result in several homes going up in
          > flames.
          >
          > Take a look this morning around your neighborhood and observe the mess that
          > is left. Sherman Circle, has empty boxes piled up. The boxes were so big
          > that I saw people carrying at least 5-6 of them away this morning presumable
          > to use as storage boxes. 8Th street has enough debris in the street that I
          > observed a man with a leaf blower blowing the debris into a pile. This all
          > helps to stop up the drains and overflow system designed to remove the rain
          > water run off from our streets.
          >
          > Last night as I posted, the extreme noise didn't stop in my neighborhood
          > until after 2:18 AM. This is a real imposition. I can't lay around in the
          > bed til noon to catch up on my sleep. I have responsibility that directs me
          > to be up much earlier. When other people's fun creates an extreme burden on
          > others then it has to be brought under control.
          >
          > Keith Jarrell
          >
          > --
          > In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence
          > of our friends.
          > Martin Luther King Jr.
          >
          >
          > -------------- Original message --------------
          > From: "Joshua Maye" <joshua.maye@...>
          >
          > I agree with Matt that how effective is a complete ban going to
          > accomplish if the City can't enforce the ban on the fireworks that are
          > already illegal. Enforce the ban on the illegal fireworks.
          >
          > On 7/5/08, Matt Ashburn <matt@... <matt%40mattashburn.com>>
          > wrote:
          > > What benefit would an all-out ban provide? The dangerous fireworks
          > > (bottle rockets, firecrackers, etc.) are already illegal and are not
          > > to be sold in the district. Additional bans on sparklers are not the
          > > solution.
          > >
          > > What's the logic behind a ban of all fireworks, when the existing ban


          [The entire original message is not included]
        • Joshua Maye
          Clearly I do get it, but we have a difference of opinion which is ok. Lets agree to disagree and move on ... -- MIDN Joshua Maye United States Naval Sea Cadet
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 5, 2008
            Clearly I do get it, but we have a difference of opinion which is ok.
            Lets agree to disagree and move on

            On 7/5/08, Joshua Maye <mayeji@...> wrote:
            > But once again, if you can't enforce a partial ban on the illegal ones then
            > why should we waste more manpower to attempt a complete ban when the partial
            > ban has yielded no good results?
            >
            > Joshua
            >
            > "The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of
            > thinking that created them" -Albert Einstein
            >
            >
            > On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 12:29 PM, <k.jarrell01@...> wrote:
            >
            >> A total ban would be much easier to implement eliminating the need for
            >> officers having to cover the extensive list of currently illegal products
            >> verses products that are still allowed to be sold and set off.
            >> Many times, different vendors package the same illegal product under
            >> various names and identities. Thus creating the problem with even being
            >> able
            >> to tell the difference. I think a major problem is the early detection
            >> of
            >> the illegal products by the Fire Marshall, and possibly DCRA.
            >>
            >> The potential for a major fire from these fireworks is also a real
            >> concern. Let's face facts here too, if one of these older row houses
            >> catches fire, the damage could easily result in several homes going up in
            >> flames.
            >>
            >> Take a look this morning around your neighborhood and observe the mess
            >> that
            >> is left. Sherman Circle, has empty boxes piled up. The boxes were so big
            >> that I saw people carrying at least 5-6 of them away this morning
            >> presumable
            >> to use as storage boxes. 8Th street has enough debris in the street that
            >> I
            >> observed a man with a leaf blower blowing the debris into a pile. This
            >> all
            >> helps to stop up the drains and overflow system designed to remove the
            >> rain
            >> water run off from our streets.
            >>
            >> Last night as I posted, the extreme noise didn't stop in my neighborhood
            >> until after 2:18 AM. This is a real imposition. I can't lay around in the
            >> bed til noon to catch up on my sleep. I have responsibility that directs
            >> me
            >> to be up much earlier. When other people's fun creates an extreme burden
            >> on
            >> others then it has to be brought under control.
            >>
            >> Keith Jarrell
            >>
            >> --
            >> In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence
            >> of our friends.
            >> Martin Luther King Jr.
            >>
            >>
            >> -------------- Original message --------------
            >> From: "Joshua Maye" <joshua.maye@...>
            >>
            >> I agree with Matt that how effective is a complete ban going to
            >> accomplish if the City can't enforce the ban on the fireworks that are
            >> already illegal. Enforce the ban on the illegal fireworks.
            >>
            >> On 7/5/08, Matt Ashburn <matt@... <matt%40mattashburn.com>>
            >> wrote:
            >> > What benefit would an all-out ban provide? The dangerous fireworks
            >> > (bottle rockets, firecrackers, etc.) are already illegal and are not
            >> > to be sold in the district. Additional bans on sparklers are not the
            >> > solution.
            >> >
            >> > What's the logic behind a ban of all fireworks, when the existing ban
            >> > covers all the dangerous ones and is ineffective?
            >> >
            >> > Matt
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 1:15 AM,
            >> > <khenderson029@...<khenderson029%40aol.com>>
            >> wrote:
            >> >> Good Evening:
            >> >>
            >> >> I am deeply disappointed that only Councilmembers Graham and Wells
            >> >> voted
            >>
            >> >> in
            >> >> favor of this legislation that would have provided relief from the
            >> >> negative
            >> >> impact of exploding fireworks in our neighborhoods. Despite numerous
            >> >> citizen
            >> >> complaints and four versions of a bill to ban fireworks we still have
            >> >> no
            >> >> relief from the noisy and dangerous onslaught. Some out of control
            >> >> neighbors
            >> >> deliberately aimed flying incendiary material at other neighbor's
            >> >> homes.
            >> >>
            >> >> Tonight was no different from past July 4th holidays in that we were
            >> >> subjected to endless explosions of fireworks that filled the air with
            >> >> acrid
            >> >> smoke and noise. Four hours and three police calls later the police
            >> still
            >> >> have not responded; they are clearly stretched thin responding to
            >> numerous
            >> >> similar calls.
            >> >>
            >> >> Are we resigned to simply suffering in silence or planning to be out of
            >> >> town
            >> >> during forthcoming July 4th holidays? If not, I believe we need to
            >> revisit
            >> >> this issue and actively advocate to protect our public safety. There is
            >> no
            >> >> legitimate reason why our neighborhoods must become venues for endless
            >> >> explosions every year.
            >> >>
            >> >> Sincerely,
            >> >>
            >> >> Kathy Henderson
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >> ________________________________
            >> >> Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used
            >> >> cars.
            >> >>
            >> >
            >>
            >> --
            >> MIDN Joshua Maye
            >> United States Naval Sea Cadet Corps
            >> (202) 270-4749 Mobile
            >>
            >> "The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level
            >> of thinking that created them" -Albert Einstein
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            United States Naval Sea Cadet Corps
            (202) 270-4749 Mobile

            "The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level
            of thinking that created them" -Albert Einstein
          • Tina DCTina
            Just as important is the fact that so many of the fireworks sound just like gunfire. With all the latest gun violence, and for those of us not comfortable with
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 5, 2008
              Just as important is the fact that so many of the fireworks sound just like gunfire. With all the latest gun violence, and for those of us not comfortable with the sound of gunfire or noise emulating it, it's extremely disconcerting at best. Many of my neighbors were remarking about what a perfect environment this makes for committing crimes involving a firearm. I'm reasonably sure the police responded to ALOT of calls from people who couldn't tell the difference.

              --- On Sat, 7/5/08, Keith Jarrell <k.jarrell01@...> wrote:
              From: Keith Jarrell <k.jarrell01@...>
              Subject: RE: [MPD-5D] "Fireworks Neighborhood Safety Emergency Declaration of 2008"
              To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, July 5, 2008, 3:15 PM

              Clearly u just don't get it

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Joshua Maye <joshua.maye@ gmail.com>
              Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 1:44 PM
              To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups. com
              Subject: Re: [MPD-5D] "Fireworks Neighborhood Safety Emergency Declaration of 2008"

              But once again, if you can't enforce a partial ban on the illegal ones then
              why should we waste more manpower to attempt a complete ban when the partial
              ban has yielded no good results?

              Joshua

              "The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of
              thinking that created them" -Albert Einstein

              On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 12:29 PM, <k.jarrell01@ comcast.net> wrote:

              > A total ban would be much easier to implement eliminating the need for
              > officers having to cover the extensive list of currently illegal products
              > verses products that are still allowed to be sold and set off.
              > Many times, different vendors package the same illegal product under
              > various names and identities. Thus creating the problem with even being able
              > to tell the difference. I think a major problem is the early detection of
              > the illegal products by the Fire Marshall, and possibly DCRA.
              >
              > The potential for a major fire from these fireworks is also a real
              > concern. Let's face facts here too, if one of these older row houses
              > catches fire, the damage could easily result in several homes going up in
              > flames.
              >
              > Take a look this morning around your neighborhood and observe the mess that
              > is left. Sherman Circle, has empty boxes piled up. The boxes were so big
              > that I saw people carrying at least 5-6 of them away this morning presumable
              > to use as storage boxes. 8Th street has enough debris in the street that I
              > observed a man with a leaf blower blowing the debris into a pile. This all
              > helps to stop up the drains and overflow system designed to remove the rain
              > water run off from our streets.
              >
              > Last night as I posted, the extreme noise didn't stop in my neighborhood
              > until after 2:18 AM. This is a real imposition. I can't lay around in the
              > bed til noon to catch up on my sleep. I have responsibility that directs me
              > to be up much earlier. When other people's fun creates an extreme burden on
              > others then it has to be brought under control.
              >
              > Keith Jarrell
              >
              > --
              > In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence
              > of our friends.
              > Martin Luther King Jr.
              >
              >
              > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --
              > From: "Joshua Maye" <joshua.maye@ gmail.com>
              >
              > I agree with Matt that how effective is a complete ban going to
              > accomplish if the City can't enforce the ban on the fireworks that are
              > already illegal. Enforce the ban on the illegal fireworks.
              >
              > On 7/5/08, Matt Ashburn <matt@mattashburn. com <matt%40mattashburn .com>>
              > wrote:
              > > What benefit would an all-out ban provide? The dangerous fireworks
              > > (bottle rockets, firecrackers, etc.) are already illegal and are not
              > > to be sold in the district. Additional bans on sparklers are not the
              > > solution.
              > >
              > > What's the logic behind a ban of all fireworks, when the existing ban

              [The entire original message is not included]


            • Robert
              According to CSPC in 2006 there were estimated to be about 10,000 people per year are injured and about 36 people died as a result of Fireworks. In 2004 that
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 5, 2008
                According to CSPC in 2006 there were estimated to be about 10,000
                people per year are injured and about 36 people died as a result of
                Fireworks.

                In 2004 that number was closer to 8000. However, in 2004 according to
                the the CDC about 40 Million people were injured in the USA.
                http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/factsheets/injury.pdf


                Number of deaths for leading causes of death (
                http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/FASTATS/lcod.htm)

                Heart disease: 652,091

                Cancer: 559,312

                Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 143,579

                Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 130,933

                Accidents (unintentional injuries): 117,809

                Diabetes: 75,119

                Alzheimer's disease: 71,599

                Influenza/Pneumonia: 63,001

                Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 43,901

                Septicemia: 34,136





                Having said that, I think the number's path is the wrong way to go.
                Yes, many more people are killed and injured by cars, Fast food, and
                fire arms each year.

                However, the reason for the ban isn't the overwhelming deaths or
                injuries, because in comparison to other causes of injury firework
                related injuries are rather low. The ban should be in place because
                there is no other tenable solution.

                While I am sure the vast majority of people are safe, I have concerns
                for the few that are not.

                I have concerns about the ground shaking mini bombs that went off
                last night and go off tonight.

                I want MPD free from having to check every sale to instead be working
                to keep the streets safe While I expect DCRA and DCFD to ensure that
                the vendors are only selling proper and legal fireworks, it
                ultimately falls on MPD to provide the enforcement and frankly, it's
                too much to ask MPD to search every person that is buying or using
                fireworks. It's simply untenable.

                A prohibition, if only for a five year period, would help perhaps in
                the absence of them all we could devise ways to then allow sparklers
                or something else.

                However, last night was frightening. I saw many children and ill-
                behaved young adults shooting off rockets sometimes at people's
                houses or each other.

                The rockets are weapons, and I am not sure how the vendor's pass the
                DCRA inspections.

                If I have to balance public safety over individual's expression of
                lighting fireworks, I'd rather error on the side of safety, no matter
                how small of a safety impact there is.

                From a public health stand point, as someone with asthma last night's
                cloud of dark black fog made it very difficult for me. It was like
                being in a garage while a car was running.

                From a fiscal and economic stand point, I fear that the cost of
                enforcing the current law is too high in both officer time and the
                opportunity cost associated with having police work the firework
                scene rather than working non-firework related crime such as murders,
                rapes, etc. If we have to pay people overtime let's have it be for
                crimes that we don't invite. The cost of enforcing the law is too
                high. Last night would have been the perfect night to shoot someone.
                People would have thought it was a firework; it probably rendered the
                shot spotters useless, making us all unsafe.


                There are two negative externalities here, poor air quality and
                removing police from their normal beats. Both I am unwilling accept
                w/o a fight. It's worth abandoning fireworks for a little peace and
                quiet, clean air and safer streets.

                Perhaps if the City would enforce the current law, through DCRA
                enforcement this wouldn't be an issue, but we are not there yet.

                A simple prohibition would be the cleanest way. That means they are
                banned, just like in PG and Mont Counties, many of whose residents
                come here to light fireworks and then leave us with the mess.

                And those of us who support a ban need to take our frustration to the
                polls, and remind those 11 people that voted against the ban who they
                work for.

                -Robby



                --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, Keith Jarrell <k.jarrell01@...> wrote:
                >
                > Clearly u just don't get it
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Joshua Maye <joshua.maye@...>
                > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 1:44 PM
                > To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [MPD-5D] "Fireworks Neighborhood Safety Emergency
                Declaration of 2008"
                >
                > But once again, if you can't enforce a partial ban on the illegal
                ones then
                > why should we waste more manpower to attempt a complete ban when
                the partial
                > ban has yielded no good results?
                >
                > Joshua
                >
                > "The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same
                level of
                > thinking that created them" -Albert Einstein
                >
                >
                > On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 12:29 PM, <k.jarrell01@...> wrote:
                >
                > > A total ban would be much easier to implement eliminating the
                need for
                > > officers having to cover the extensive list of currently illegal
                products
                > > verses products that are still allowed to be sold and set off.
                > > Many times, different vendors package the same illegal product
                under
                > > various names and identities. Thus creating the problem with even
                being able
                > > to tell the difference. I think a major problem is the early
                detection of
                > > the illegal products by the Fire Marshall, and possibly DCRA.
                > >
                > > The potential for a major fire from these fireworks is also a real
                > > concern. Let's face facts here too, if one of these older row
                houses
                > > catches fire, the damage could easily result in several homes
                going up in
                > > flames.
                > >
                > > Take a look this morning around your neighborhood and observe the
                mess that
                > > is left. Sherman Circle, has empty boxes piled up. The boxes
                were so big
                > > that I saw people carrying at least 5-6 of them away this morning
                presumable
                > > to use as storage boxes. 8Th street has enough debris in the
                street that I
                > > observed a man with a leaf blower blowing the debris into a
                pile. This all
                > > helps to stop up the drains and overflow system designed to
                remove the rain
                > > water run off from our streets.
                > >
                > > Last night as I posted, the extreme noise didn't stop in my
                neighborhood
                > > until after 2:18 AM. This is a real imposition. I can't lay
                around in the
                > > bed til noon to catch up on my sleep. I have responsibility that
                directs me
                > > to be up much earlier. When other people's fun creates an
                extreme burden on
                > > others then it has to be brought under control.
                > >
                > > Keith Jarrell
                > >
                > > --
                > > In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but
                the silence
                > > of our friends.
                > > Martin Luther King Jr.
                > >
                > >
                > > -------------- Original message --------------
                > > From: "Joshua Maye" <joshua.maye@...>
                > >
                > > I agree with Matt that how effective is a complete ban going to
                > > accomplish if the City can't enforce the ban on the fireworks
                that are
                > > already illegal. Enforce the ban on the illegal fireworks.
                > >
                > > On 7/5/08, Matt Ashburn <matt@... <matt%40mattashburn.com>>
                > > wrote:
                > > > What benefit would an all-out ban provide? The dangerous
                fireworks
                > > > (bottle rockets, firecrackers, etc.) are already illegal and
                are not
                > > > to be sold in the district. Additional bans on sparklers are
                not the
                > > > solution.
                > > >
                > > > What's the logic behind a ban of all fireworks, when the
                existing ban
                >
                >
                > [The entire original message is not included]
                >
              • kristofor1787
                Keith and Kathy, You have been adamant about banning fireworks, but yet your proposal is unworkable in current form. A total ban on fireworks is only a small
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 6, 2008
                  Keith and Kathy,

                  You have been adamant about banning fireworks, but yet your proposal
                  is unworkable in current form.

                  A total ban on fireworks is only a small step on the way to an
                  effective ban. An effective ban would require classifying all
                  fireworks use as a misdemeanor with a hefty fine. Multiple
                  convictions equals jail time. And (if this is constitutional)
                  forcing the *parents* of anyone under age 18 to pay the $1000 fine.
                  Mass arrests while you figure out whose parents are whose.

                  I think real enforcement of fireworks ban is a waste of time and
                  resources. I believe that the benefit people derive from the freedom
                  to fire off some explosions once a year outweighs the tiny fraction
                  of instances in which someone is injured or a house burns down.
                  You're fireworks scrooges.

                  My proposal would be to legalize all fireworks on July 4 from dusk
                  until midnight, then strictly ban them at all other times. The
                  fireworks are designed to celebrate freedom, let's live a little.

                  Kris

                  --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, k.jarrell01@... wrote:
                  >
                  > A total ban would be much easier to implement eliminating the need
                  for officers having to cover the extensive list of currently illegal
                  products verses products that are still allowed to be sold and set
                  off.
                • arcurlyq@yahoo.com
                  One night of the year? What city do you live in? In my neighborhood, the fireworks go on for several days before the 4th and then for several weeks
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 7, 2008
                    One night of the year? What city do you live in? In my neighborhood, the fireworks go on for several days before the 4th and then for several weeks afterwards. In addition, the idiots setting off these things leave their trash everywhere, trash that includes lots of empty beer cans, liquor bottles, and firework debris. The city then has to come in repeatedly to clean up this mess, at the expense of our tax dollars. Yes, there is always a danger with fireworks, but there is a far greater danger in a densely populated area like DC when fireworks are being handled by untrained and irresponsible people.

                    AR

                    Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


                    From: DCReardon@...
                    Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 15:02:21 -0400
                    To: <MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: [MPD-5D] "Fireworks Neighborhood Safety Emergency Declaration of 2008"

                    Its one nite out of the whole year, and its alot of fun for alot of people.  Were there any fires actually caused last nite?  Last year I was at Bethany Beach and the city sponsored fireworks caught a house on fire cause of the wind, so that can happen anywhere, legal or not.  We have a huge display on our street every year, but we sweep up afterwards, make sure everything is cleaned up.

                    ITS ONE NITE of the YEAR.

                    We have more things to worry about in this city than fireworks.


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Joshua Maye <joshua.maye@ gmail.com>
                    To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 1:44 pm
                    Subject: Re: [MPD-5D] "Fireworks Neighborhood Safety Emergency Declaration of 2008"

                    But once again, if you can't enforce a partial ban on the illegal ones then why should we waste more manpower to attempt a complete ban when the partial ban has yielded no good results?

                    Joshua

                    "The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them" -Albert Einstein


                    On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 12:29 PM, <k.jarrell01@ comcast.net> wrote:
                    A total ban would be much easier to implement eliminating the need for officers having to cover the extensive list of currently illegal products verses products that are still allowed to be sold and set off.
                    Many times,   different vendors package the same illegal product under various names and identities. Thus creating the problem with even being able to tell the difference.   I think a major problem is the early detection of the illegal products by the Fire Marshall, and possibly DCRA.
                     
                    The potential for a major fire from these fireworks is also a real concern.  Let's face facts here too,  if one of these older row houses catches fire,  the damage could easily result in several homes going up in flames. 
                     
                    Take a look this morning around your neighborhood and observe the mess that is left.  Sherman Circle, has empty boxes piled up.  The boxes were so big that I saw people carrying at least 5-6 of them away this morning presumable to use as storage boxes.  8Th street has enough debris in the street that I observed a man with a leaf blower blowing the debris into a pile.  This all helps to stop up the drains and overflow system designed to remove the rain water run off from our streets.
                     
                    Last night as I posted,  the extreme noise didn't stop in my neighborhood until after 2:18 AM. This is a real imposition.  I can't lay around in the bed til noon to catch up on my sleep.  I have responsibility that directs me to be up much earlier.  When other people's fun creates an extreme burden on others then it has to be brought under control.
                     
                    Keith Jarrell 
                     
                    --
                    In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
                    Martin Luther King Jr.
                     
                    ------------ -- Original message ------------ --
                    From: "Joshua Maye" <joshua.maye@ gmail.com>
                    I agree with Matt that how effective is a complete ban going to
                    accomplish if the City can't enforce the ban on the fireworks that are
                    already illegal. Enforce the ban on the illegal fireworks.

                    On 7/5/08, Matt Ashburn <matt@mattashburn. com> wrote:
                    > What benefit would an all-out ban provide? The dangerous fireworks
                    > (bottle rockets, firecrackers, etc.) are already illegal and are not
                    > to be sold in the district. Additional bans on sparklers are not the
                    > solution.
                    >
                    > What's the logic behind a ban of all fireworks, when the existing ban
                    > covers all the dangerous ones and is ineffective?
                    >
                    > Matt
                    >
                    >
                    > On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 1:15 AM, <khenderson029@ aol.com> wrote:
                    >> Good Evening:
                    >>
                    >> I am deeply disappointed that only Councilmembers Graham and Wells voted
                    >> in
                    >> favor of this legislation that would have provided relief from the
                    >> negative
                    >> impact of exploding fireworks in our neighborhoods. Despite numerous
                    >> citizen
                    >> complaints and four versions of a bill to ban fireworks we still have no
                    >> relief from the noisy and dangerous onslaught. Some out of control
                    >> neighbors
                    >> deliberately aimed flying incendiary material at other neighbor's homes.
                    >>
                    >> Tonight was no different from past July 4th holidays in that we were
                    >> subjected to endless explosions of fireworks that filled the air with
                    >> acrid
                    >> smoke and noise. Four hours and three police calls later the police still
                    >> have not responded; they are clearly stretched thin responding to numerous
                    >> similar calls.
                    >>
                    >> Are we resigned to simply suffering in silence or planning to be out of
                    >> town
                    >> during forthcoming July 4th holidays? If not, I believe we need to revisit
                    >> this issue and actively advocate to protect our public safety. There is no
                    >> legitimate reason why our neighborhoods must become venues for endless
                    >> explosions every year.
                    >>
                    >> Sincerely,
                    >>
                    >> Kathy Henderson
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> ____________ _________ _________ __
                    >> Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used
                    >> cars.
                    >>
                    >

                    --
                    MIDN Joshua Maye
                    United States Naval Sea Cadet Corps
                    (202) 270-4749 Mobile

                    "The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level
                    of thinking that created them" -Albert Einstein
                    Policing for Prevention
                    Yahoo! Groups
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                  • arcurlyq@yahoo.com
                    Uh, how does blowing things up celebrate freedom? Sorry, but I m an American from this very city and I just don t get it. No wonder other countries view
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 7, 2008
                      Uh, how does blowing things up celebrate freedom? Sorry, but I'm an American from this very city and I just don't get it. No wonder other countries view Americans as stupid. We should celebrate freedom by appreciating the city we have and the neighborhoods and neighbors around us, not trashing those neighborhoods or putting our neighbors' properties or very lives in danger.

                      AR

                      Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


                      From: "kristofor1787" <kristofor1787@...>
                      Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:46:19 -0000
                      To: <MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: [MPD-5D] Re: "Fireworks Neighborhood Safety Emergency Declaration of 2008"

                      Keith and Kathy,

                      You have been adamant about banning fireworks, but yet your proposal
                      is unworkable in current form.

                      A total ban on fireworks is only a small step on the way to an
                      effective ban. An effective ban would require classifying all
                      fireworks use as a misdemeanor with a hefty fine. Multiple
                      convictions equals jail time. And (if this is constitutional)
                      forcing the *parents* of anyone under age 18 to pay the $1000 fine.
                      Mass arrests while you figure out whose parents are whose.

                      I think real enforcement of fireworks ban is a waste of time and
                      resources. I believe that the benefit people derive from the freedom
                      to fire off some explosions once a year outweighs the tiny fraction
                      of instances in which someone is injured or a house burns down.
                      You're fireworks scrooges.

                      My proposal would be to legalize all fireworks on July 4 from dusk
                      until midnight, then strictly ban them at all other times. The
                      fireworks are designed to celebrate freedom, let's live a little.

                      Kris

                      --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups. com, k.jarrell01@ ... wrote:
                      >
                      > A total ban would be much easier to implement eliminating the need
                      for officers having to cover the extensive list of currently illegal
                      products verses products that are still allowed to be sold and set
                      off.

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