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Re: [MPD-5D] MPD must also stop non-house party D&D conduct

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  • Taylor Armstrong
    Brian, Please do not cross-post between the Brookland list and the MPD-5D list. Doing so is expressly forbidden by the Yahoo terms of service. This was a
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 11, 2013
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      Brian,

      Please do not cross-post between the Brookland list and the MPD-5D list.  Doing so is expressly forbidden by the Yahoo terms of service.  This was a response on the MPD-5D list, the Brookland list should not have been added when you replied.

      Not disagreeing with you that it is a Brookland issue, just a reminder - the discussion shouldn't move from one list to another.  

      thanks,

      Taylor Armstrong
      (Moderator)

      On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:36 AM, brian.ions <brian.ions@...> wrote:
       

      Thank you, Lieutenant Bernat.

      However, I think your response leaves a serious mistaken impression (to 5D residents, students and MPD officers, alike) of the scope of MPD responsibility for law enforcement of drunk and disorderly conduct.

      Why are you making a distinction regarding a student house "party" or parties regarding enforcement of DC's drunk driving and disorderly conduct laws? The proximate cause or source location of a student's dangerous drunken and disruptive conduct matters not. 

      MPD MUST enforce DC's drunk driving and disorderly conduct codes-- on public space AND private space irrespective of the original source (or "party" situation) from which the alcohol abuse emanated.

      You, Cmdr. Solberg and Chief Lanier need to understand that 'non-house party' drunk and disorderly conduct is-- and always has been-- another periodic source of dangerous and damaging conduct to 504 and other 5D residents. And MPD needs to make that clear in all of its public communications on this subject.


      Likewise, CUA students (or other DC college students) who aid, abet or are otherwise accomplices to the binge drinking and/or resultant dangerous and damaging conduct of their drunken friends also bear responsibility for that conduct.

      It is important that CUA communicate that point to its students (and the public, as applicable) in all of its public  advisory communications on this subject.

      brian/
      504


      --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "Bernat, Edward (MPD)" <Edward.Bernat@...> wrote:

      Thank you for the post.  PSA 504 officers were in the area when this took place as part of an increase in patrols I have put in place. We will monitor this case as we monitor others in the PSA.  At this time, it is not believed that he was leaving a CUA party.  As part of our efforts to eliminate out of control parties in the PSA please call 911 if anyone sees any parties at night.  We will respond and address.

      Thank you,

      Edward R. Bernat

      Lieutenant

      Patrol Services and School Security Bureau

      Fifth District

      1805 Bladensburg Road, N.E.

      Washington, D.C. 20002

      Office - 202-698-0268

      Cell- 202-359-4240

      Email: edward.bernat@...

        


    • brian.ions
      Hey, Taylor. As a Yahoo! Groups Owner/Mod, myself, I m well familiar with Yahoo s TOS-- as well as the many ways specific provisions of which are violated
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 11, 2013
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        Hey, Taylor.

        As a Yahoo! Groups Owner/Mod, myself, I'm well familiar with Yahoo's TOS-- as well as the many ways specific provisions of which are violated frequently by ALL of our area Yahoo listservs.

        Given its size, the Brookland list, is probably the most frequent violator of Yahoo's TOS-- nearly all of which are relatively innocent 'violations", and harm no one... as is the case in this instance.

        You're just legally mistaken about this, IMO. I do understand your concern, if you're referring to "non-public figures'" postings-- as that risks "tortious conduct." Again, that can never be an issue with a government/ civic response to a citizen's question or comment.

        Dissemination of MPD coomunications is one of MPD's stated purposes. Indeed these MPD lisstervs can and do provide a VITAL (potentially even a life-saving) community public interest function.

        Note Well... there is also not a thing wrong with quoting non-public figures anonymously on any Yahoo listserv (profanity, etc, excepted)-- which I normally try to do by using a single letter/ initial/ or non-specific reference, e.g., "A poster on...".

        Also FYI, Taylor, Bob, Kee and I have been friends and neighbors for a good number of decades. And we spoke this morning about these posts. So I didn't bother to 'anonymize' his posts with MPD.

        Again, quoting GOVERNMENT entities, who are public interest, legal "public figures" from their own Yahoo! Groups is very much what occurs on many Yahoo listservs all across America every day of the week. That is often the very purpose of those taxpayer-supported government listservs, after all.

        If you have a specific complaint from MPD or the District government, believe me, I and my lawyers would very much appreciate being copied on that.

        Whether any (non-public figure) public listserv response can be "quoted"/ "added"/ "cross-posted" to another Yahoo listserv -- purely as a Yahoo! TOS matter -- is a tighter consideration I suppose, and would likely turn on the legal definitions of those terms. However, again, there is no prohibition of "conventional quoting" of all or part of a message public post.

        Of course, if you or the other B'land mods wish, I'm happy to join you in seeing what Yahoo Corporate and their legal eagles have to say about it. But I'm guessing they'd just send us a fax or pdf of their TOS without comment.

        All TOS's are written to provide maximum protection for the stockholders of course-- even under the most bizarre circumstance lawyer's can dream-up. But still, no matter what the fine print says, they can't supersede local or federal codes.

        As to your statement, "the discussion shouldn't move from one list to another," please elaborate on what you mean. Many listserv discussions/ topics overlap on local area community listservs. Public safety, crime and police matters is probably the most frequent one.

        You have a great day!

        brian


        --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, Taylor Armstrong <Taylor.Armstrong@...> wrote:
        >
        > Brian,
        >
        > Please do not cross-post between the Brookland list and the MPD-5D list.
        > Doing so is expressly forbidden by the Yahoo terms of service. This was a
        > response on the MPD-5D list, the Brookland list should not have been added
        > when you replied.
        >
        > Not disagreeing with you that it is a Brookland issue, just a reminder -
        > the discussion shouldn't move from one list to another.
        >
        > thanks,
        >
        > Taylor Armstrong
        > (Moderator)
        >
        > On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:36 AM, brian.ions brian.ions@... wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > Thank you, Lieutenant Bernat.
        > >
        > > However, I think your response leaves a serious mistaken impression (to 5D
        > > residents, students and MPD officers, alike) of the scope of MPD
        > > responsibility for law enforcement of drunk and disorderly conduct.
        > >
        > > Why are you making a distinction regarding a student house "party" or
        > > parties regarding enforcement of DC's drunk driving and disorderly conduct
        > > laws? The proximate cause or source location of a student's dangerous
        > > drunken and disruptive conduct matters not.
        > >
        > > MPD *MUST* enforce DC's drunk driving and disorderly conduct codes-- on
        > > public space AND private space irrespective of the original source (or
        > > "party" situation) from which the alcohol abuse emanated.
        > >
        > > You, Cmdr. Solberg and Chief Lanier need to understand that '*non-house
        > > party*' drunk and disorderly conduct is-- *and always has been*-- another
        > > periodic source of dangerous and damaging conduct to 504 and other 5D
        > > residents. And MPD needs to make that clear in all of its public
        > > communications on this subject.
        > >
        > >
        > > Likewise, CUA students (or other DC college students) who aid, abet or are
        > > otherwise accomplices to the binge drinking and/or resultant dangerous and
        > > damaging conduct of their drunken friends also bear responsibility for that
        > > conduct.
        > >
        > > It is important that CUA communicate that point to its students (and the
        > > public, as applicable) in all of its public advisory communications on
        > > this subject.
        > >
        > > brian/
        > > 504
        > >
        > > *
        > > *
        > >
        > > *--- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "Bernat, Edward (MPD)" Edward.Bernat@
        > > wrote:*
        > >
        > > Thank you for the post. PSA 504 officers were in the area when this took
        > > place as part of an increase in patrols I have put in place. We will
        > > monitor this case as we monitor others in the PSA. *At this time, it is
        > > not believed that he was leaving a CUA party. As part of our efforts to
        > > eliminate out of control parties in the PSA please call 911 if anyone sees
        > > any parties at night. We will respond and address.*
        > > * *
        > >
        > > Thank you,
        > >
        > > *Edward R. Bernat*
        > >
        > > *Lieutenant*
        > >
        > > *Patrol Services and School Security Bureau*
        > >
        > > *Fifth District*
        > >
        > > *1805 Bladensburg Road, N.E.***
        > >
        > > *Washington**, D.C. 20002***
        > >
        > > *Office - 202-698-0268***
        > >
        > > *Cell- 202-359-4240*
        > >
        > > Email: edward.bernat@<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MPD-5D/post?postID=_yuaYshW5qdu-8JuvHG1PO2EQNC51fqTNqL1VsJpKQEZjttcC9PbpmGT80FuYwuTj71W2a51Q6Z6PpNoJQ>
        > >

      • Carol Carter Walker
        I don t know the legal ins and outs, but I think one of the best values of being in a yahoo group is the information you learn from cross postings. I would
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 11, 2013
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          I don't know the legal ins and outs, but I think one of the best values of being in a yahoo group is the information you learn from cross postings. I would hate to find out that option has been eliminated.


          -----Original Message-----
          From: "brian.ions"
          Sent: Mar 11, 2013 11:19 AM
          To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [MPD-5D] Re: MPD must also stop non-house party D&D conduct

           

          Hey, Taylor.

          As a Yahoo! Groups Owner/Mod, myself, I'm well familiar with Yahoo's TOS-- as well as the many ways specific provisions of which are violated frequently by ALL of our area Yahoo listservs.

          Given its size, the Brookland list, is probably the most frequent violator of Yahoo's TOS-- nearly all of which are relatively innocent 'violations", and harm no one... as is the case in this instance.

          You're just legally mistaken about this, IMO. I do understand your concern, if you're referring to "non-public figures'" postings-- as that risks "tortious conduct." Again, that can never be an issue with a government/ civic response to a citizen's question or comment.

          Dissemination of MPD coomunications is one of MPD's stated purposes. Indeed these MPD lisstervs can and do provide a VITAL (potentially even a life-saving) community public interest function.

          Note Well... there is also not a thing wrong with quoting non-public figures anonymously on any Yahoo listserv (profanity, etc, excepted)-- which I normally try to do by using a single letter/ initial/ or non-specific reference, e.g., "A poster on...".

          Also FYI, Taylor, Bob, Kee and I have been friends and neighbors for a good number of decades. And we spoke this morning about these posts. So I didn't bother to 'anonymize' his posts with MPD.

          Again, quoting GOVERNMENT entities, who are public interest, legal "public figures" from their own Yahoo! Groups is very much what occurs on many Yahoo listservs all across America every day of the week. That is often the very purpose of those taxpayer-supported government listservs, after all.

          If you have a specific complaint from MPD or the District government, believe me, I and my lawyers would very much appreciate being copied on that.

          Whether any (non-public figure) public listserv response can be "quoted"/ "added"/ "cross-posted" to another Yahoo listserv -- purely as a Yahoo! TOS matter -- is a tighter consideration I suppose, and would likely turn on the legal definitions of those terms. However, again, there is no prohibition of "conventional quoting" of all or part of a message public post.

          Of course, if you or the other B'land mods wish, I'm happy to join you in seeing what Yahoo Corporate and their legal eagles have to say about it. But I'm guessing they'd just send us a fax or pdf of their TOS without comment.

          All TOS's are written to provide maximum protection for the stockholders of course-- even under the most bizarre circumstance lawyer's can dream-up. But still, no matter what the fine print says, they can't supersede local or federal codes.

          As to your statement, "the discussion shouldn't move from one list to another," please elaborate on what you mean. Many listserv discussions/ topics overlap on local area community listservs. Public safety, crime and police matters is probably the most frequent one.

          You have a great day!

          brian


          --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, Taylor Armstrong <Taylor.Armstrong@...> wrote:
          >
          > Brian,
          >
          > Please do not cross-post between the Brookland list and the MPD-5D list.
          > Doing so is expressly forbidden by the Yahoo terms of service. This was a
          > response on the MPD-5D list, the Brookland list should not have been added
          > when you replied.
          >
          > Not disagreeing with you that it is a Brookland issue, just a reminder -
          > the discussion shouldn't move from one list to another.
          >
          > thanks,
          >
          > Taylor Armstrong
          > (Moderator)
          >
          > On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:36 AM, brian.ions brian.ions@... wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > Thank you, Lieutenant Bernat.
          > >
          > > However, I think your response leaves a serious mistaken impression (to 5D
          > > residents, students and MPD officers, alike) of the scope of MPD
          > > responsibility for law enforcement of drunk and disorderly conduct.
          > >
          > > Why are you making a distinction regarding a student house "party" or
          > > parties regarding enforcement of DC's drunk driving and disorderly conduct
          > > laws? The proximate cause or source location of a student's dangerous
          > > drunken and disruptive conduct matters not.
          > >
          > > MPD *MUST* enforce DC's drunk driving and disorderly conduct codes-- on
          > > public space AND private space irrespective of the original source (or
          > > "party" situation) from which the alcohol abuse emanated.
          > >
          > > You, Cmdr. Solberg and Chief Lanier need to understand that '*non-house
          > > party*' drunk and disorderly conduct is-- *and always has been*-- another
          > > periodic source of dangerous and damaging conduct to 504 and other 5D
          > > residents. And MPD needs to make that clear in all of its public
          > > communications on this subject.
          > >
          > >
          > > Likewise, CUA students (or other DC college students) who aid, abet or are
          > > otherwise accomplices to the binge drinking and/or resultant dangerous and
          > > damaging conduct of their drunken friends also bear responsibility for that
          > > conduct.
          > >
          > > It is important that CUA communicate that point to its students (and the
          > > public, as applicable) in all of its public advisory communications on
          > > this subject.
          > >
          > > brian/
          > > 504
          > >
          > > *
          > > *
          > >
          > > *--- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "Bernat, Edward (MPD)" Edward.Bernat@
          > > wrote:*
          > >
          > > Thank you for the post. PSA 504 officers were in the area when this took
          > > place as part of an increase in patrols I have put in place. We will
          > > monitor this case as we monitor others in the PSA. *At this time, it is
          > > not believed that he was leaving a CUA party. As part of our efforts to
          > > eliminate out of control parties in the PSA please call 911 if anyone sees
          > > any parties at night. We will respond and address.*
          > > * *
          > >
          > > Thank you,
          > >
          > > *Edward R. Bernat*
          > >
          > > *Lieutenant*
          > >
          > > *Patrol Services and School Security Bureau*
          > >
          > > *Fifth District*
          > >
          > > *1805 Bladensburg Road, N.E.***
          > >
          > > *Washington**, D.C. 20002***
          > >
          > > *Office - 202-698-0268***
          > >
          > > *Cell- 202-359-4240*
          > >
          > > Email: edward.bernat@<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MPD-5D/post?postID=_yuaYshW5qdu-8JuvHG1PO2EQNC51fqTNqL1VsJpKQEZjttcC9PbpmGT80FuYwuTj71W2a51Q6Z6PpNoJQ>
          > >

          
          Carol Carter Walker
          carolcarterwalker@...
          (202) 636-8138 (H/O)
          (202) 744-3872 (C)
        • Bernat, Edward (MPD)
          I guess I was in error, when CUA was mentioned in the original post, I assumed there was a reference to past problems in the PSA with CUA parties. I will not
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 11, 2013
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            I guess I was in error, when CUA was mentioned in the original post, I assumed there was a reference to past problems in the PSA with CUA parties. I will not make that assumption in the future. The police department, my PSA officers and I take drunk driving seriously, regardless of how the person achieved the level of intoxication. Individuals that drink and then drive will be arrested and prosecuted.   We are all happy that no one was injured and this incident only resulted in property damage.  I am equally happy that my officers where actively patrolling in the area when this happened and was able to make the stop and arrest without injury.  PSA 504 has and will continue to address all Disorderly Conduct matters that are observed and brought to our attention.

             

            Edward R. Bernat

            Lieutenant

             

            Patrol Services and School Security Bureau

            Fifth District

            1805 Bladensburg Road, N.E.

            Washington, D.C. 20002

            Office - 202-698-0268

            Cell- 202-359-4240

            Email: edward.bernat@...

               

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            From: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of brian.ions
            Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 5:36 AM
            To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [MPD-5D] MPD must also stop non-house party D&D conduct

             

             

            Thank you, Lieutenant Bernat.

            However, I think your response leaves a serious mistaken impression (to 5D residents, students and MPD officers, alike) of the scope of MPD responsibility for law enforcement of drunk and disorderly conduct.

            Why are you making a distinction regarding a student house "party" or parties regarding enforcement of DC's drunk driving and disorderly conduct laws? The proximate cause or source location of a student's dangerous drunken and disruptive conduct matters not. 

            MPD MUST enforce DC's drunk driving and disorderly conduct codes-- on public space AND private space irrespective of the original source (or "party" situation) from which the alcohol abuse emanated.

            You, Cmdr. Solberg and Chief Lanier need to understand that 'non-house party' drunk and disorderly conduct is-- and always has been-- another periodic source of dangerous and damaging conduct to 504 and other 5D residents. And MPD needs to make that clear in all of its public communications on this subject.

            Likewise, CUA students (or other DC college students) who aid, abet or are otherwise accomplices to the binge drinking and/or resultant dangerous and damaging conduct of their drunken friends also bear responsibility for that conduct.

            It is important that CUA communicate that point to its students (and the public, as applicable) in all of its public  advisory communications on this subject.

            brian/
            504

            --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "Bernat, Edward (MPD)" <Edward.Bernat@...> wrote:

            Thank you for the post.  PSA 504 officers were in the area when this took place as part of an increase in patrols I have put in place. We will monitor this case as we monitor others in the PSA.  At this time, it is not believed that he was leaving a CUA party.  As part of our efforts to eliminate out of control parties in the PSA please call 911 if anyone sees any parties at night.  We will respond and address.

            Thank you,

            Edward R. Bernat

            Lieutenant

            Patrol Services and School Security Bureau

            Fifth District

            1805 Bladensburg Road, N.E.

            Washington, D.C. 20002

            Office - 202-698-0268

            Cell- 202-359-4240

            Email: edward.bernat@...

              

          • brian.ions
            Thank you, Lieutenant. And I should have been more specific. You are right to keep your eye on the partying student group homes, too. But Brookland s night
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 12, 2013
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              Thank you, Lieutenant. And I should have been more specific.

              You are right to keep your eye on the partying student group homes, too. But Brookland's night time student disruption problem is always a moving target-- with multiple dynamic elements.

              College students are highly adaptive. And it comes as a shock to no one that the free time of many is usually driven by the pursuit of one or more of three interests:  partying, drinking and sex.

              The pursuit of those interests form a NETWORK of problem locations in a college neighborhood. So it's probably better to persistently approach the problem as a dynamic area network.

              I don't want to be presumptuous, but here are some observations and suggestions I throw out to you and the 504 team for whatever they may be worth...

              Two Subject "High Interests" determine location 'source' points, and also determine pedestrian transit route(s)-- and patrol timing

              (1) Alcoholic beverage sources (bars, house parties, vehicles)

              (2) Relationship/ hookup sources (bars, parties, female grp homes)

              -- Disruptive Subject behavior can and does occur at, or anywhere BETWEEN those Subject High Interest source points

              -- 25% of your Subjects cycle in and out of area every year

              -- Nearly 100% turnover of student Subjects every 4 years

              -- So all boisterous/ disruptive Subjects require education/re-education, warnings, various MPD attentions every year. Little caution is remembered after a second drink.

              -- Fresh intel is required every year for houses, demographics, party frequency, intensity, etc. -AND- every week for party locations (adjust patrol routes/points accordingly)

              --For 504 and CUA(E) the primary transit routes are Monroe, Newton, Otis, 10th and 12th

              -- Add to current regular patrols... proactive D&D Subject observations, sobriety checks outside party houses where patrol observations provide probable cause

              For example, if patrol observes a Subject coming out of party house unable to walk a straight line, and heads for his car, give him a sobriety check and/or a warning, arrest if necessary

              Likewise for pedestrians, party-goers yelling late at night, violating new DC code, or other disorderly conduct. Check ID's, give warnings, arrest if necessary.
              I think long-term residents and other neighbors will appreciate the utilization of a broader selection of the tools (and tactics) available in MPD's toolbox.

              Thanks again for your response, Lieutenant, and I know Brooklanders look forward to a continued community partnership with you and the 504 team.

              brian

              --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "Bernat, Edward (MPD)" <Edward.Bernat@...> wrote:

              I guess I was in error, when CUA was mentioned in the original post, I assumed there was a reference to past problems in the PSA with CUA parties. I will not make that assumption in the future. The police department, my PSA officers and I take drunk driving seriously, regardless of how the person achieved the level of intoxication. Individuals that drink and then drive will be arrested and prosecuted.   We are all happy that no one was injured and this incident only resulted in property damage.  I am equally happy that my officers where actively patrolling in the area when this happened and was able to make the stop and arrest without injury.  PSA 504 has and will continue to address all Disorderly Conduct matters that are observed and brought to our attention.

               

              Edward R. Bernat

              Lieutenant

               

              Patrol Services and School Security Bureau

              Fifth District

              1805 Bladensburg Road, N.E.

              Washington, D.C. 20002

              Office - 202-698-0268

              Cell- 202-359-4240

              Email: edward.bernat@...

                  


              From: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of brian.ions
              Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 5:36 AM
              To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [MPD-5D] MPD must also stop non-house party D&D conduct


              Thank you, Lieutenant Bernat.

              However, I think your response leaves a serious mistaken impression (to 5D residents, students and MPD officers, alike) of the scope of MPD responsibility for law enforcement of drunk and disorderly conduct.

              Why are you making a distinction regarding a student house "party" or parties regarding enforcement of DC's drunk driving and disorderly conduct laws? The proximate cause or source location of a student's dangerous drunken and disruptive conduct matters not. 

              MPD MUST enforce DC's drunk driving and disorderly conduct codes-- on public space AND private space irrespective of the original source (or "party" situation) from which the alcohol abuse emanated.

              You, Cmdr. Solberg and Chief Lanier need to understand that 'non-house party' drunk and disorderly conduct is-- and always has been-- another periodic source of dangerous and damaging conduct to 504 and other 5D residents. And MPD needs to make that clear in all of its public communications on this subject.

              Likewise, CUA students (or other DC college students) who aid, abet or are otherwise accomplices to the binge drinking and/or resultant dangerous and damaging conduct of their drunken friends also bear responsibility for that conduct.

              It is important that CUA communicate that point to its students (and the public, as applicable) in all of its public  advisory communications on this subject.

              brian/
              504

              --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "Bernat, Edward (MPD)" <Edward.Bernat@...> wrote:

              Thank you for the post.  PSA 504 officers were in the area when this took place as part of an increase in patrols I have put in place. We will monitor this case as we monitor others in the PSA.  At this time, it is not believed that he was leaving a CUA party.  As part of our efforts to eliminate out of control parties in the PSA please call 911 if anyone sees any parties at night.  We will respond and address.

              Thank you,

              Edward R. Bernat

              Lieutenant

              Patrol Services and School Security Bureau

              Fifth District

              1805 Bladensburg Road, N.E.

              Washington, D.C. 20002

              Office - 202-698-0268

              Cell- 202-359-4240

              Email: edward.bernat@...

                
            • b_on_t
              We have a great MPD crew here in Brookland and I have no doubt they ve got all of these covered. I ve witnessed 5D officers promptly and professionally
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 12, 2013
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                We have a great MPD crew here in Brookland and I have no doubt they've got all of these covered. I've witnessed 5D officers promptly and professionally address these types of incidents using many of the tactics you suggest.

                I think the best things for the members of the community to do are to call 911 whenever we witness these or other activities in the neighborhood that are of concern, as well as use this message board to maintain strong lines of communication with our 5D officers. We have some D.C.'s finest!

                --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "brian.ions" <brian.ions@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thank you, Lieutenant. And I should have been more specific.
                >
                > You are right to keep your eye on the partying student group homes, too.
                > But Brookland's night time student disruption problem is always a moving
                > target-- with multiple dynamic elements.
                >
                > College students are highly adaptive. And it comes as a shock to no one
                > that the free time of many is usually driven by the pursuit of one or
                > more of three interests: partying, drinking and sex.
                >
                > The pursuit of those interests form a NETWORK of problem locations in a
                > college neighborhood. So it's probably better to persistently approach
                > the problem as a dynamic area network.
                >
                > I don't want to be presumptuous, but here are some observations and
                > suggestions I throw out to you and the 504 team for whatever they may be
                > worth...
                >
                > Two Subject "High Interests" determine location 'source' points, and
                > also determine pedestrian transit route(s)-- and patrol timing
                >
                > (1) Alcoholic beverage sources (bars, house parties, vehicles)
                >
                > (2) Relationship/ hookup sources (bars, parties, female grp homes)
                >
                > -- Disruptive Subject behavior can and does occur at, or anywhere
                > BETWEEN those Subject High Interest source points
                >
                > -- 25% of your Subjects cycle in and out of area every year
                >
                > -- Nearly 100% turnover of student Subjects every 4 years
                >
                > -- So all boisterous/ disruptive Subjects require
                > education/re-education, warnings, various MPD attentions every year.
                > Little caution is remembered after a second drink.
                >
                > -- Fresh intel is required every year for houses, demographics, party
                > frequency, intensity, etc. -AND- every week for party locations (adjust
                > patrol routes/points accordingly)
                >
                > --For 504 and CUA(E) the primary transit routes are Monroe, Newton,
                > Otis, 10th and 12th
                >
                > -- Add to current regular patrols... proactive D&D Subject observations,
                > sobriety checks outside party houses where patrol observations provide
                > probable cause
                >
                > For example, if patrol observes a Subject coming out of party house
                > unable to walk a straight line, and heads for his car, give him a
                > sobriety check and/or a warning, arrest if necessary
                >
                > Likewise for pedestrians, party-goers yelling late at night, violating
                > new DC code, or other disorderly conduct. Check ID's, give warnings,
                > arrest if necessary.
                > I think long-term residents and other neighbors will appreciate the
                > utilization of a broader selection of the tools (and tactics) available
                > in MPD's toolbox.
                >
                > Thanks again for your response, Lieutenant, and I know Brooklanders look
                > forward to a continued community partnership with you and the 504 team.
                >
                > brian
                >
                > --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "Bernat, Edward (MPD)"
                > <Edward.Bernat@> wrote:
                >
                > I guess I was in error, when CUA was mentioned in the original post, I
                > assumed there was a reference to past problems in the PSA with CUA
                > parties. I will not make that assumption in the future. The police
                > department, my PSA officers and I take drunk driving seriously,
                > regardless of how the person achieved the level of intoxication.
                > Individuals that drink and then drive will be arrested and prosecuted.
                > We are all happy that no one was injured and this incident only resulted
                > in property damage. I am equally happy that my officers where actively
                > patrolling in the area when this happened and was able to make the stop
                > and arrest without injury. PSA 504 has and will continue to address all
                > Disorderly Conduct matters that are observed and brought to our
                > attention.
                >
                >
                >
                > Edward R. Bernat
                >
                > Lieutenant
                >
                >
                >
                > Patrol Services and School Security Bureau
                >
                > Fifth District
                >
                > 1805 Bladensburg Road, N.E.
                >
                > Washington, D.C. 20002
                >
                > Office - 202-698-0268
                >
                > Cell- 202-359-4240
                >
                > Email: edward.bernat@
                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MPD-5D/post?postID=imDaxeAL9BMJ5A3CONbAHI\
                > xgVEMC_D2V_DGlkiOLdYK4CFoTrqT4ERJWBwlzte_EpmstluRTmARFkQ>
                >
                >
                >
                > From: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                > Of brian.ions
                > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 5:36 AM
                > To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [MPD-5D] MPD must also stop non-house party D&D conduct
                >
                >
                > Thank you, Lieutenant Bernat.
                >
                > However, I think your response leaves a serious mistaken impression (to
                > 5D residents, students and MPD officers, alike) of the scope of MPD
                > responsibility for law enforcement of drunk and disorderly conduct.
                >
                > Why are you making a distinction regarding a student house "party" or
                > parties regarding enforcement of DC's drunk driving and disorderly
                > conduct laws? The proximate cause or source location of a student's
                > dangerous drunken and disruptive conduct matters not.
                >
                > MPD MUST enforce DC's drunk driving and disorderly conduct codes-- on
                > public space AND private space irrespective of the original source (or
                > "party" situation) from which the alcohol abuse emanated.
                >
                > You, Cmdr. Solberg and Chief Lanier need to understand that 'non-house
                > party' drunk and disorderly conduct is-- and always has been-- another
                > periodic source of dangerous and damaging conduct to 504 and other 5D
                > residents. And MPD needs to make that clear in all of its public
                > communications on this subject.
                >
                > Likewise, CUA students (or other DC college students) who aid, abet or
                > are otherwise accomplices to the binge drinking and/or resultant
                > dangerous and damaging conduct of their drunken friends also bear
                > responsibility for that conduct.
                >
                > It is important that CUA communicate that point to its students (and the
                > public, as applicable) in all of its public advisory communications on
                > this subject.
                >
                > brian/
                > 504
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "Bernat, Edward (MPD)"
                > <Edward.Bernat@> wrote:
                >
                > Thank you for the post. PSA 504 officers were in the area when this
                > took place as part of an increase in patrols I have put in place. We
                > will monitor this case as we monitor others in the PSA. At this time,
                > it is not believed that he was leaving a CUA party. As part of our
                > efforts to eliminate out of control parties in the PSA please call 911
                > if anyone sees any parties at night. We will respond and address.
                >
                > Thank you,
                >
                > Edward R. Bernat
                >
                > Lieutenant
                >
                > Patrol Services and School Security Bureau
                >
                > Fifth District
                >
                > 1805 Bladensburg Road, N.E.
                >
                > Washington, D.C. 20002
                >
                > Office - 202-698-0268
                >
                > Cell- 202-359-4240
                >
                > Email: edward.bernat@
                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MPD-5D/post?postID=_yuaYshW5qdu-8JuvHG1PO\
                > 2EQNC51fqTNqL1VsJpKQEZjttcC9PbpmGT80FuYwuTj71W2a51Q6Z6PpNoJQ>
                >
              • brian.ions
                No one is questioning the quality or competence of MPD s front line officers, BTW. It s just important that everyone understand the ongoing, long-term nature
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 12, 2013
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                  No one is questioning the quality or competence of MPD's front line officers, BTW. It's just important that everyone understand the ongoing, long-term nature of the problem. Some of us have been intimately familiar with this problem for going on 20 years.

                  Also, some of the worst disruptions and lawbreaking occur as and after a house party is breaking-up. Confronting students drinking and/or disorderly on public space, sidewalks, streets, etc. is just as important for responding -AND- regular patrolling officers to do.

                  It's not enough for MPD to stand by-- even with their light bar flashing-- given these drunk kids' state of mind. If a MPD patrol does not get out of the car, they'll simply assume the cops are "cool" with their New Orleans style revelry. Drunks have great imaginations.

                  Adding to B on T's excellent advice-- when calling 911 make sure that the 911 (OUC) operator is very clear about the respond-to address. Or if the perpetrators are moving, just give the "hundred" or "thousand" number of the block (+NE, NW, etc) and tell the operator which DIRECTION the perps are heading... for example, "the 1000 block of Otis Street, NE. walking west toward the Metro".  Don't hesitate to ask the operator to repeat your info, if you think it may not be accurately dispatched. Also try to provide approximate number of persons, number of males, females, clothing colors, top and bottom, etc.

                  brian/
                  504

                  Question for Lt. Bernat or Cmdr. Solberg... Re. the Saturday night Newton mayhem and a followup to Kee's post yesterday...

                  -- Has MPD discovered where the drunk driver was last drinking?
                  -- Was it at the tavern around the corner on 12th?
                  -- Has that establishment been ruled out?

                  --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "b_on_t" <b_on_t@...> wrote:

                  I think the best things for the members of the community to do are to call 911
                  whenever we witness these or other activities in the neighborhood that are of
                  concern, as well as use this message board to maintain strong lines of
                  communication with our 5D officers.


                  --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "Kee" <keemalesky@...> wrote:

                  Lieutenant:

                  If he wasn't drinking at a CUA party house, I hope you're talking to the
                  bartender who served this young man and allowed him to drive away in such an
                  extremely impaired condition.

                  We're just lucky only cars were crushed, and no people were hurt.

                  Thanks,
                  Kee
                  on Newton

                • Leemah
                  I feel the same way when there are complaints about HU students over loud music and trash, and even reported robberies near dorms etc,. I m a bonifide CUA
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 12, 2013
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                    I feel the same way when there are complaints about HU students over loud music and trash, and even reported robberies near dorms etc,. I'm a bonifide CUA full-time student who lives in Ledroit near HU. I've seen and heard of illegal and wild activities on and near CUA campus by CUA students --but it is hushed, ignored or under-reported. (Like this message may be)

                    What's good for the goose is good for the gander...


                    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
                  • brian.ions
                    Capt. Kane or Lt. Bernat... When you get a chance could you let us know what the drunk/hit-n-run driver in 504 (9-10 March) was charged with. As I understand
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 15, 2013
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                      Capt. Kane or Lt. Bernat...

                      When you get a chance could you let us know what the drunk/hit-n-run
                      driver in 504 (9-10 March) was charged with.

                      As I understand it, he is a former CUA student and was drinking at a
                      "friend's house." Is there any indication said friend's house was one of
                      the student group homes on our block or elsewhere in Brookland? If so,
                      were CUA administrators advised of that locale

                      Thanks.

                      brian/
                      504
                    • Solberg, Andrew (MPD)
                      The man was charged with Driving Under the Influence and Leaving After Colliding. There is no indication that this is related to Catholic University. Andy
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 15, 2013
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                        The man was charged with Driving Under the Influence and Leaving After Colliding.

                         

                        There is no indication that this is related to Catholic University.

                         

                        Andy Solberg

                        Commander, 5D

                         

                         

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                        For more information, contact the OTR Customer Service Center at (202) 727-4TAX or visit
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                        From: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of brian.ions
                        Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 6:29 AM
                        To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [MPD-5D] Re: what was drunk/hit-n-run driver charged with on March 9-10 incident

                         

                         

                        Capt. Kane or Lt. Bernat...

                        When you get a chance could you let us know what the drunk/hit-n-run
                        driver in 504 (9-10 March) was charged with.

                        As I understand it, he is a former CUA student and was drinking at a
                        "friend's house." Is there any indication said friend's house was one of
                        the student group homes on our block or elsewhere in Brookland? If so,
                        were CUA administrators advised of that locale

                        Thanks.

                        brian/
                        504

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