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[MOREFIELDHOMEPLACE] Re: John, Jr. 1801

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  • Patricia M. Seaver
    ... Right, that s the way I see it. Kathy was speculating based on the 1800-1819 tax lists. The 1782-1799 lists revealed new information that put a different
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 1, 2002
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      Bob wrote:

      >
      >I see where Kathy is coming from when she says William could have
      >been the son of John the Sr who may have been John the grandson of
      >John d1751. But I don't see William as the son of John Jr (married
      >Winifred) The only way that could have happened would be for John Jr.
      >to have been married prior to Winifred. We have not established that
      >fact yet.
      >
      >William may have been the son of John Sr. d1812 and was living with
      >John and Winny his brother. Question would be was John Sr. young
      >enough to have had a son as young as William? It is probable that he
      >could have had a son William born 1777/1782.


      Right, that's the way I see it. Kathy was speculating based on the
      1800-1819 tax lists. The 1782-1799 lists revealed new information
      that put a different complexion on some previous assumptions. I
      estimate John Sr.'s DoB at bef. 1733 (appointed constable 1753). I
      lean toward William's DoB as the earlier 1777, because that's closer
      to the 1820 census data and is consistent with his 1798 appearance on
      the tax lists.

      Two key pieces of data from the 1782-1799 lists are (1) Wright was
      living with John (Sr.) in 1784 and (2) William put in his appearance
      in 1798--much earlier than previous assumptions. Those two pieces of
      data lead reasonably to an entirely different line up of generations.
      A third piece of data which contributes to this new line up was the
      appearance in 1789 of an Edward--4 years after Edward #1 died.

      Bob conjectures:

      >
      >OK, you want my GUESS on a layout
      >
      >1. John (early)
      >---2. John d 1751
      >------3. Unidentified son
      >---------4. Grandson John (John Sr. died 1812)
      >------------5. William married Rebecka
      >------------5. John married Winifred Bruce
      >------------5. Others ? Charley born 1770??
      >---2. Edward
      >

      That's my (current) *speculation*, too. As for others as sons of
      John, Sr. (remember there were 10 souls in his household in 1782 and
      9 in 1782), In addition to William and John (Jr.), I *speculate* that
      Moore was John's son (John signed the marriage bond). I also
      *speculate* that Wright was his son (Wright living with John 1784).
      And, there was Elizabeth who married Howard Cain. More support for
      putting William as the s/o John Sr. is that William acted as John's
      agent in an 1801 lawsuit.

      I *speculate* that the Edward who began to appear on tax lists in
      1789 was the son of the Edward who died in 1785. I have no proof
      other than the names, which is not conclusive, by any means. I
      wonder if some of the stray NC MFLDs could be older sons of Edwards,
      already adults by 1782.

      Charley is intriguing! Where was he before 1850, and how did he
      escape the tax man and the census takers all those years? The only
      explanation I can think of is that he was never a head of household.
      The tax lists were *personal* property, not just real estate.

      >
      >We must remember that brothers sometimes went to live with sisters
      >and brothers as well as a brothers child. So it really gets to be a
      >mess in trying to figure it all out based on census information.


      This is true. Additionally, farm workers would also be counted.
      Think of how many farm workers' names, apprentices, etc. you've seen
      in census records 1850 and later. And there were widowed mothers and
      sisters and orphaned siblings, nieces, cousins. All the same, in the
      absence of land records or a thoughtful will naming each of the
      married daughters...

      Pat
      --
      Patricia Moorefield Seaver
      Knoxville, Tennessee
    • kimberly jones
      found green in Ky 1820 census ... From: Patricia M. Seaver To: MOREFIELDHOMEPLACE@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:57 AM Subject: Re:
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 1, 2002
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        found green in Ky 1820 census
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Patricia M. Seaver
        To: MOREFIELDHOMEPLACE@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:57 AM
        Subject: Re: [MOREFIELDHOMEPLACE] Green and Robert with a earlier wife?


        >Hi Pat,
        >
        >We have found Green not in VA or NC in 1820. I would have to look up
        >the census record to be sure but I believe we found him in TN or Ky
        >in 1820. Not enough time this morning to dig through the records.
        >Taking Betty to have a stress test. Green was born about 1797.
        >

        Bob,

        I hope Betty's stress test went well--all that tennis should count
        for something.

        I have Green in Stewart, TN in 1820, in Calloway, KY in 1830 and 1840
        and in Marshall, KY in1850. Stewart, TN borders Calloway, KY and
        Marshall was formed from Calloway. My theory is that he left Halifax
        for TN directly from his parents' home. In most of the tax lists
        that I have viewed, adult males living in the home of the head of
        household were not *named* (1784 was an exception). Therefore, Green
        could have been in one of those households were there were more than
        one adult male. On my next trip to the McClung, I'll try to remember
        to check Stewart Co. to see if I can find any land records which
        might establish when he moved there.

        I went through the Patrick Co. 1791-1823 records this morning, but
        did not find William & Rebecca. So the first tax record we have for
        them was 1828, but Nancy married Joseph Harris in 1824 and Allen
        married Martha Harris in 1825, so I think they were there earlier.

        Pat
        --
        Patricia Moorefield Seaver
        Knoxville, Tennessee

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      • Patricia M. Seaver
        ... Are you sure that it was KY in 1820? I do have him in KY in 1830, 1840 and 1850, but in 1820 I found him in Stewart, TN (which borders on KY): 1820 p. 122
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 1, 2002
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          >found green in Ky 1820 census


          Are you sure that it was KY in 1820? I do have him in KY in 1830,
          1840 and 1850, but in 1820 I found him in Stewart, TN (which borders
          on KY):
          1820 p. 122 Stewart, TN
          1830 p. 186 Calloway, KY
          1840 p. 77 Calloway, KY
          1850 District 1 p. 432 #31/31 Marshall, KY

          (those are page numbers, not image numbers, but I viewed all of these
          images on Ancestry. I use page numbers instead of Ancestry's image
          numbers, because that's what relates to other census indices.)

          Pat
          --
          Patricia Moorefield Seaver
          Knoxville, Tennessee
        • Robert R. Morefield
          I would agree with you that Green was in TN when I wrote my message last night I could not remember and it was late enough that I did not want to dig through
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 1, 2002
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            I would agree with you that Green was in TN when I wrote my message
            last night I could not remember and it was late enough that I did not
            want to dig through the records.

            About Betty's Stress test it was the type where they pass a fluid
            into her veins and scann her and then she got on the tred mill and
            then re scanned her after that. I had an appointment with our Dr.
            today and he told the results were negative and that everything is
            ok. She just had a bad sugan reaction. She has had this for years
            if she allows her system to get out of bal. She is just fine now.
            The Dr. was happy with my blood preasure at 118/72 but I got my
            lecture about weight.

            Bob Morefield


            --- In MOREFIELDHOMEPLACE@y..., "Patricia M. Seaver" <pseaver@c...>
            wrote:
            > >found green in Ky 1820 census
            >
            >
            > Are you sure that it was KY in 1820? I do have him in KY in 1830,
            > 1840 and 1850, but in 1820 I found him in Stewart, TN (which
            borders
            > on KY):
            > 1820 p. 122 Stewart, TN
            > 1830 p. 186 Calloway, KY
            > 1840 p. 77 Calloway, KY
            > 1850 District 1 p. 432 #31/31 Marshall, KY
            >
            > (those are page numbers, not image numbers, but I viewed all of
            these
            > images on Ancestry. I use page numbers instead of Ancestry's image
            > numbers, because that's what relates to other census indices.)
            >
            > Pat
            > --
            > Patricia Moorefield Seaver
            > Knoxville, Tennessee
          • kimberly jones
            i will check cause i may have made a mistake ... From: Robert R. Morefield To: MOREFIELDHOMEPLACE@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 3:13 PM
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 1, 2002
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              i will check cause i may have made a mistake

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Robert R. Morefield
              To: MOREFIELDHOMEPLACE@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 3:13 PM
              Subject: [MOREFIELDHOMEPLACE] Re: Green and Robert with a earlier wife?


              I would agree with you that Green was in TN when I wrote my message
              last night I could not remember and it was late enough that I did not
              want to dig through the records.

              About Betty's Stress test it was the type where they pass a fluid
              into her veins and scann her and then she got on the tred mill and
              then re scanned her after that. I had an appointment with our Dr.
              today and he told the results were negative and that everything is
              ok. She just had a bad sugan reaction. She has had this for years
              if she allows her system to get out of bal. She is just fine now.
              The Dr. was happy with my blood preasure at 118/72 but I got my
              lecture about weight.

              Bob Morefield


              --- In MOREFIELDHOMEPLACE@y..., "Patricia M. Seaver" <pseaver@c...>
              wrote:
              > >found green in Ky 1820 census
              >
              >
              > Are you sure that it was KY in 1820? I do have him in KY in 1830,
              > 1840 and 1850, but in 1820 I found him in Stewart, TN (which
              borders
              > on KY):
              > 1820 p. 122 Stewart, TN
              > 1830 p. 186 Calloway, KY
              > 1840 p. 77 Calloway, KY
              > 1850 District 1 p. 432 #31/31 Marshall, KY
              >
              > (those are page numbers, not image numbers, but I viewed all of
              these
              > images on Ancestry. I use page numbers instead of Ancestry's image
              > numbers, because that's what relates to other census indices.)
              >
              > Pat
              > --
              > Patricia Moorefield Seaver
              > Knoxville, Tennessee


              MOREFIELD RESEARCH EXCHANGE (MRE) 2003 will again be held in Virginia. More information will be posted as it becomes avaliable.

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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