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- Jan 10Hi Phil,The WVHGC old system was text group but it relied upon one person adding or subtracting members and sending out the SMS as they came in - long delays and lots of work. Email group was crappy and some had to be home to use it.The ACT boys tried to convince us to use Twitter but the suggestion was unconvincing at club meetings so it never got up.The most successful spread the word system for WVHGC is Messenger. It gets info out there but not all flying activities are posted. There are still many that just go flying without mentioning it to the club in general. I estimate only 20 percent of the flying location/days actually reach messenger. Thats not a bad thing mind you as some days the messages just pile up and the choices become too great.The pilots who wish to go flying and join in but want to avoid messenger/facebook only have to send a text to me and ask. Dean ;-)This is still a far better system than our options back in the day - find a pay phone and hope the other pilots are still home when you you rang. If you could't get them at home you'd make a car-radio call from a hill top and wind up talking to some truckie in QLD.This club is always open to new ideas but you have to make the pitch convincing if you want change.Regards,Rohan.On 09/01/2019, at 2:01 PM, philphil1966 philphil1966@... [MHGC] wrote:Hi Dean,We could go a different route, but for it to be practical and for it to work for you, you'd have to convince WVHGC, Dynasoarers etc to change. I think that would be your biggest hurdle.CheersPhilSent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: "'Dean Macpherson' deancm@... [MHGC]" <MHGC@yahoogroups.com>Date: 9/1/19 13:11 (GMT+10:00)Subject: Re: [MHGC] MHGC Messenger GroupHi Phil,I agree Yahoo Groups leaves a lot to be desired. The software is old, clunky and not reliable - I don't think it has changed in the last 20 years. Instant messaging is definitely the way to go, when it works it is brilliant.The example you gave of MHGC organising flying at Thistle Hill using WVHGC's messenger is a perfect example. As a WVHGC member I didn't receive any of those messages because I am not on messenger. That's proof that even using messenger leads to fragmented or no communication. And as you mentioned, it is the newer pilots that are missing out the most. As a newer hang glider pilot myself, I'm definitely missing out with the WVHGCs messenger. And if newer pilots don't get the opportunity to fly and build up their hours the obvious conclusion is they will end up leaving the sport.Messenger may be pragmatic but as Karl mentioned in another message it is non-inclusive, and ironically will create/accentuate the problem it is supposed to solve.It takes all of two seconds to set up an instant messenger group and there is virtually zero admin required. Why not run a couple of different IM platforms in parallel and see which one people gravitate to?Cheers,DeanSent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 at 12:02 PM
From: "phil philphil1966@... [MHGC]" <MHGC@yahoogroups.com>
To: MHGC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MHGC] MHGC Messenger GroupHi Dean,The reality is that the club has been using FB since 2007 (when the FB group was created). I obviously wasn't party to that decision and the realities of FB probably weren't known at the time, but it's the position we're in.If the club thinks that there is a good reason to keep the Yahoo Group then that's OK, but as it's not the best tool for organising flying. Consequently people are using other means which is fragmenting communications and it's the newer pilots who are trying to build a relationship with experianced club members that loose out the most.As WVHGC, Dynasoarers and also ACT are using Messenger the majority of members are already using it. As an example, recently MHGC members were using the WVHGC Messenger Group to organise flying at Thistle Hill.So creating a dedicated MHGC Messenger Group for our members was the most pragmatic choice.CheersPhilOn Tue, 2019-01-08 at 22:30 +0100, 'Dean Macpherson' deancm@... [MHGC] wrote:H Phil,What about those members that do not have a Facebook account and for whatever reason(s) will not join Facebook?Make no mistake, Facebook Messenger is Facebook (so is WhatsApp for that matter). Originally Messenger was a bolt on to the main Facebook site, but Facebook opened it up to people without a Facebook account to get new people to sign up, but it is still linked to the main site and if you have a messenger account you have a Facebook account created by default. All you need to do is set a password in Messenger and bingo, there's your Facebook account. To say you can use Messenger without joining Facebook is disingenuous - you sign up to Messenger you've signed up to Facebook whether you use the main site or not.Personally, Facebook is far too cavalier with peoples' personal and private information. There's a reason why Facebook is being dragged over the coals for violation of privacy in the US, UK, EU and Australia, and to make the move to use Messenger is essentially forcing members who would otherwise not join Facebook into handing over their personal information and join Facebook. In my opinion that is wrong.Just because other clubs are using it doesn't mean it is the best choice. For instance, I am also a member of the WVHGC which uses Messenger solely. Since I have joined, and as I am not on Facebook or Messenger, I have received a total of zero communications from them. That is not what I call using Messenger effectively, especially if it alienates paid members.Any communications platform that does not have 100% buy in is not fit for purpose.There are better platforms available that dont sell your personal information to all and sundry or datamine your devices. Telegram for example, all you need to do is download the app, enter your phone number and you are set up, no personal information required. Just as easy if not easier than setting up Facebook Messenger."We do understand the dislike of Facebook" If you understand the dislike of Facebook then why would you choose a platform that people dislike? If people dislike something it's highly unlikely they will use it.Anyway, that's my two cents.DeanSent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 at 10:24 PM
From: "phil philphil1966@... [MHGC]" <MHGC@yahoogroups..com>
To: "MHGC@yahoogroups.com" <MHGC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [MHGC] MHGC Messenger GroupLast year the subject of the Yahoo Email Group being unreliable was raised multiple times. This was especially true when trying to organise flying as messages were often delayed by hours or days.A number of options were discussed, but in order to simply things it was decided to make the most of the existing Facebook Group and create an “MHGC” Messenger Group for organising flying.So we’re going to:• Use the existing FB Group for all event organisation and other club business.• Use the new “MHGC” Messenger Group for organising flying activities.• Over time phase out the Yahoo Group due to its unreliability.All other options would have resulted in the majority of members requiring yet another account.We do understand the dislike of Facebook, which is why we've put the effort into investigating and documenting how to set-up a minimal account just for club use.The reality is that all the other VIC clubs are using Facebook and Messenger effectively, so it's already a reality for most club members.The details of the Facebook Group, how to set-up a minimal Facebook account and invitations to join the VIC Messenger groups can be found on our web-site:Any and all feedback welcome.Phil SeeleyMHGC President - << Previous post in topic Next post in topic >>