----- Original Message -----

From:

MHGC@yahoogroups.com

To:

<MHGC@yahoogroups.com>

Cc:

Sent:

Tue, 8 Jan 2019 23:49:57 +0100

Subject:

Re: [MHGC] MHGC Messenger Group


 

Hi Tim,

 

You're right, you don't need to give your real name or DOB (even if Phil does recommend that in the messenger set-up instructions and Facebook actively tries to purge false accounts). But consider what other information you are providing (even though you may not realise it):

 

What permissions are you allowing Facebook to have on your phone? Definitely you are allowing access to your real contacts, phone numbers and messages (both reading and writing).

 

Your GPS location, Tower location

IP address

WiFi network connected to/Location

The people you have spoken to, time/duration, content (if messages)

other metadata

 

Secondly, if your phone is used for business purposes (which mine is), depending on what you do for work you could be in breach of the Privacy Act if you allow access to you contacts and their phone number and any comms with them without their permission.

 

Then, once Facebook cross-references your real phone number, location, comms, other metadata etc., with your contacts and people on the wider Facebook database, photos, biometric data and their contacts/comms they can then build a network and work out exactly who you actually are, together with a timeline of everything you have done, people you have spoken to and where you have been.

 

Google can even identify people from Google queries.

 

As you can see it is not as simple as merely providing false particulars.

 

Providing a real name and DOB is enough information for identity theft if it was ever hacked.

 

 

Dean

 

Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 at 9:06 AM
From: "Tim Leed tim@... [MHGC]" <MHGC@yahoogroups.com>
To: "MHGC@yahoogroups.com" <MHGC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [MHGC] MHGC Messenger Group

 

 

Hi Dean,

 

Understand what you are saying as a non-FB user, however, consider what information is used when creating a Messenger/Facebook profile from scratch and just how exactly that might be used IF that was released to any other party.

You don’t need to use your real name (many people don’t).

You don’t need to use your real DOB (many people don’t).

You can use any email address you like to verify the account.

You obviously can use any password you like.

If someone is otherwise not on FB/Messenger and not proposing to use it for any other purpose other than for communications using Messenger for the purposes of connecting with other like-minded flying people in order to maximise their own flying opportunities and those of the other members of the group then it’s a good thing and I would consider that the risk to an individual persons data to be miniscule.

 

I personally think its awesome – providing people post when/where they are proposing to fly it’s a great way for new pilots to get airtime as well as more experienced pilots to get to fly with others – I much prefer to fly with other people, but it can be difficult connecting with them all.

Coupled with Phil’s wheretofly page/app I reckon its making it heaps easier to get some quality airtime in!

 

Good on the committee for continuing to evolve.

 

I doubt that you would ever find a communication method that will be “perfect” for everyone – for example, although my mum has a smart phone, its almost never on, has no email address, facebook account or any other social media apps and she has no idea how to txt message even.

 

Kind regards,

Tim Leed

 

	03 59404334
	20 Campbell Street Pakenham VIC 3810
	melro.com.au

 

 

From: MHGC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MHGC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 8:31 AM
To: MHGC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: <SPAM> Re: [MHGC] MHGC Messenger Group

 

 

H Phil,

 

What about those members that do not have a Facebook account and for whatever reason(s) will not join Facebook?

 

Make no mistake, Facebook Messenger is Facebook (so is WhatsApp for that matter). Originally Messenger was a bolt on to the main Facebook site, but Facebook opened it up to people without a Facebook account to get new people to sign up, but it is still linked to the main site and if you have a messenger account you have a Facebook account created by default. All you need to do is set a password in Messenger and bingo, there's your Facebook account. To say you can use Messenger without joining Facebook is disingenuous - you sign up to Messenger you've signed up to Facebook whether you use the main site or not.

 

Personally, Facebook is far too cavalier with peoples' personal and private information. There's a reason why Facebook is being dragged over the coals for violation of privacy in the US, UK, EU and Australia, and to make the move to use Messenger is essentially forcing members who would otherwise not join Facebook into handing over their personal information and join Facebook. In my opinion that is wrong.

 

Just because other clubs are using it doesn't mean it is the best choice. For instance, I am also a member of the WVHGC which uses Messenger solely. Since I have joined, and as I am not on Facebook or Messenger, I have received a total of zero communications from them. That is not what I call using Messenger effectively, especially if it alienates paid members.

 

Any communications platform that does not have 100% buy in is not fit for purpose.

 

There are better platforms available that dont sell your personal information to all and sundry or datamine your devices. Telegram for example, all you need to do is download the app, enter your phone number and you are set up, no personal information required. Just as easy if not easier than setting up Facebook Messenger.

 

"We do understand the dislike of Facebook" If you understand the dislike of Facebook then why would you choose a platform that people dislike? If people dislike something it's highly unlikely they will use it.

 

Anyway, that's my two cents.

 

 

Dean

 

Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 at 10:24 PM
From: "phil philphil1966@... [MHGC]" <MHGC@yahoogroups.com>
To: "MHGC@yahoogroups.com" <MHGC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [MHGC] MHGC Messenger Group

 

 

Last year the subject of the Yahoo Email Group being unreliable was raised multiple times. This was especially true when trying to organise flying as messages were often delayed by hours or days.

 

A number of options were discussed, but in order to simply things it was decided to make the most of the existing Facebook Group and create an “MHGC” Messenger Group for organising flying.

 

So we’re going to:

 

    • Use the existing FB Group for all event organisation and other club business.

    • Use the new “MHGC” Messenger Group for organising flying activities.

    • Over time phase out the Yahoo Group due to its unreliability.

 

All other options would have resulted in the majority of members requiring yet another account.

 

We do understand the dislike of Facebook, which is why we've put the effort into investigating and documenting how to set-up a minimal account just for club use.

 

The reality is that all the other VIC clubs are using Facebook and Messenger effectively, so it's already a reality for most club members.

 

The details of the Facebook Group, how to set-up a minimal Facebook account and invitations to join the VIC Messenger groups can be found on our web-site:

 

http://mhgc.vhpa.org.au/facebook-group-and-messenger/

 

Any and all feedback welcome.

 

Phil Seeley

MHGC President