- [Koan] That means that a rapidly changing voltage, or diverging / converging currents induce a scalar field.Maybe the MEG is making use of scalar fields effects.

[Bob] CEMF seems to occur instantly, at least 'speed of light stuff'..or shall we say 'speed of flux'. Since CEMF is opposite in polarity to the applied voltage it opposes current buildup.....and this is a bazaar state of fields, potentials, and fluxes. On the one hand we have forced a potential across the coil leads which creates flux which cuts the turns which reduces the flux which creates a CCEMF which cuts the turns which slows the flux fall which....and on and on and on. The integral of this process is a current/flux in the core that rises in ramp fashion. Which supports Rob's suspicion that Tesla's special coil might have properties worth investigating. I suspect that using the Tesla coil in the output could reach resonance in the 40khz range with many fewer turns thereby producing the MEG effects 'Megavation' at much lower voltage levels which I surely would like to see given the problems with dealing with higher voltages.[Koan] I suppose that the input current pulses can order the phaseof the small circular currents in the MEG core.[Bob] Interesting. I had not given any regards as to the magnetic effects of current flow (electrons spinning round and round) in the core. I suppose it is not to be overlooked in a transformer. I have only viewed this in terms of a loss.By fragmenting the core in very thin layers, the losses are greatly reduced, but the induced magnetic flux can onlymean a magnetic polarization = circular current of electrons. The Metglas core is metal stuff, so there will always be currentin it. This is not electron spin, like in ferrites.Now it is clear why this needs to be done at a particular frequency that must be related tothe orbital frequency of the circular current in the MEG core.[Bob] Another area of darkness in my MEG knowledge. Everybody, including the patent, point out that the MEG is running at resonance.Very good point Bob, resonance means that there is a natural frequency involved. But what is periodic in the MEG when there is noinput current? That can only be the circular flow of electrons. The strenght of the permanent magnets and thestructure of the core determine the natural orbital frequency. Therefore it is important to know which magnets Bearden uses,and also the size of the magnets. Has this information been included in the patent?I am still trying to understand (using the AAMC-320 core) if this resonance is due to the LC product of the output coils or if it is a higher order effect of Core properties and output coil characteristics. I have done tests using a 40T pri and found the first resonance about 22mhz. I have also made tests using a 40T Pri and a 40T secondary and found the first resonance above 5mhz. With 40t pri and 450t sec I find the first resonance in the neighborhood of 100khz but in Bearden's paper on his meg measurements http://www.help4all.de/energy/MEGpaper.pdf his scope traces clearly (well maybe not so clearly) show a secondary frequency of 40khz. There will be mysteries to unveil when I get the whole transformer put together and get it running. Perhaps the combination of the input coils, Core transfer times you refer to, and output coils properties the resonance will occur at a lower (40khz) when the whole thing is running a 2 coil MEG.The resonance frequency depends on the magnetic field strength.In case that the charge is at some point in time all at the outside (closest to the coreoutside edge) and half a cycle later closest to the north-south axis of the MEG core,then we have a diverging and converging current, then scalar field effects might bepresent.

[Bob] You've done it again Koan. I am having trouble understanding how, in a Torus, it is possible to induce voltage into the secondary since the flux is said to be confined to the core of the transformer. I have been presuming that the flux is not really confined but somehow sums to zero in the space surrounding the coil and coils wrapped around the core getting hit from inside and outside the coil see a differential.The precisely timed input pulses probably order the phase of the electrons in circular flow, which means a nett current is generated,(they do not sum up zero no longer!!!) therefore an alternating electrical potential is induced.You can think of a 1000 pendulums with equal length, swinging side by side, but with a random phase.Suppose you apply simultaneously and periodically a little force pulse to all pendulums in their frequency, guess what happens:after a while their phases are all the same. Because these pendulums are charges in the MEG core, a voltage is induced.I think the polarisation of the nett current is radial, and that means that the current is diverging/convergingin the resonance frequency. By the way: the applied frequency can also be the natural frequency divided 2 or 3 or 4, etc ...By applying very fast square pulses, one can reduce greatly the input power, while the phase gets ordered anyway.This is the reduction of phase chaos, and the induction of the order that we call electric field and scalar field.When the output coil picks up this electro-scalar power, then this order is dissipated, meaning the phases get random.see also http://www.truth.myweb.nl/electrodynamics_secrets_IE.html

[Bob] Showing my ignorance here I must confess that you and Andre Waser, Andre GSponer and Jean-Pierre Hurni's work leaves me with a feeling of awe when I attempt to understand your papers. The paragraph headed "The use of magnets for inducing scalar fields and cold current" helped me to understand what you may mean by "current" in a Permanent magnet"....as you describe the relative movement of the electrons as they spin around the nucleus.Conclusion:the MEG has nothing to do with flux switching, because the flux of the permanentmagnet cannot be switched.The only source of dynamical magnetic flux is the electrical circuit, and not the permanent magnet[Bob Winchester] agreedunless one side of the MEG can be driven into saturatation, but this needs to be donewith a much higher input current than described in the MEG patent. Thus, the overunity effect can only be explained by some electro-scalar phenomenon. I have described mathematically the wireless transfer of power via longitudinal electro-scalar waves. The permanent magnets are necessary for inducing circular current, but the real trick is creating order in the phase chaos. Via a capacative coupling and scalar-coupling (a pan cake coil has a divergence factor beside of a rotation factor) can the energy be tapped by the output coil.

[Robert Winchester] I am confused by your remark about permanent magnets creating circular current. Are you referring to flux or electron flow?electron flowAlso, I am thinking that when the MEG is Megavating (producing OU) flux gating may occur due the fast rising pulse across the input coil and the reflected fields associated with resonance coming into phase under the flux gate to a level sufficient to block the Magnet's flux thereby releasing the Magnet's flux to fly over to the other side....out on a theoretical limb here and I can hear the buzz saws starting up! One thing we must admit. If the MEG 'really works' then there is magic (new science) at work here and we must look outside the text books for an explanation.The most mystical aspects is: where does the extra power come from? In what form does energy flow into the core/magnet?I think it is in the form of longitudinal electro-scalar (LES) waves that constitute a real power flow, like the transversal electro-magnetic waves.The LES waves theory is indeed brand new. It was a thrill to discover that only a minor adjustement of the standard theoryof electrodynamics (Maxwell theory) was necessary for finding the LES wave solutions.If one only knew this theory in Tesla´s days, then this great engineer would have been taken much more seriously with respect to his longitudinal waves.If you look at my theory, you will notice that I defined everything in exact mathematical terms. This is beyond Bearden.I debated with Hal Puthoff, Jack Sarfatti and others, such as a Russian engineer from Moskow, and nobody was able tocontradict the new theory. It is based on disregarding the Lorentz gauge condition.Standard textbooks and most scientists acknowledge the Lorentz gauge condition, but nobody knows why.It is based on a circular argument. By assuming the opposite (the Lorentz gauge condition is false) one can find typical Tesla wave solutions.Maybe our sun is radiating also a lot ofThis cannot happen until someone like yourself get your hands on a MEG that can be made to Megavate and parameters be investigated that are outside the current science of transformers. As best I know there has never been a transformer produced that puts out more power than is applied. It is like religion, I think I believe in the MEG, but I have never seen one...yet. Reminds me of my feelings back when I was convinced that cold fusion was on solid theoretical grounds....even today, I keep waiting to hear they have succeeded. (moderator, please forgive me for getting philosophical here)Engineer Achleitner from Austria also build a MEG ( he could not get it to work in overunity). This engineer discovered that at a particular frequency energy seemed to disappear. This energy was not radiated away from the MEG in the form of the ordinary measurable Hertz waves, and was not measured at the output coil. A portion of the input energy simply disappeared. This means that the MEG was functioning in a send mode, and I suppose that the MEG was sending longitudinal electroscalar waves that could not be measured by Achleitner.

[Bob] Did he use a Metglas core? Perhaps you can point me to his work....I am not finished reading the back messages in the Archives of Meg_builders...maybe I will find it there.Yes, he tried to reproduce Bearden's MEG, but to his astonishment he achieved the opposite of generating power:a portion of the input power dissappeared. This was (to my opinion) the most interesting result of the German/Swiss MEG congressin Biebelried two years ago. All the others presented MEGs in the usual transformer mode, which is not the way the MEG functions.For this reason they all had a COP of 0.99 in stead of COP > 1.I asked Achleitner if he measured radiation, and the answer was that he tried to measure energy flow in the form of Hertz wave radiation,but he did not detect Hertz waves at all ! Still a portion of the input power simply disappeared.I remarked that his experiment is Nobel price stuff, because this means a completely new type of radiation(not partical radiation, nor TEM waves). Two years ago I did not have a clue about an alternative type of radiation.I tried to find the email address of Achleitner, and asked Adolf Schneider (organiser of MEG conference in Switserland)if he had his address, but he didn´t. I would like to know what magnets Achleitner used, and at which frequencyhe measured the loss of power. I also have these Metglas cores and Neodynium magnets, but these magnets aretoo strong, and probably the resonance frequency is much too high when using such magnets.Koen

[Bob] You really got me going here. Thank you.I thank you too, Bob, and hopefully you achieve overunity. Bearden mentioned a non-rotating form of Magnetic potential.That can only be a diverging/converging Magnetic potential, and such a potential is induced by diverging/converging currents.This can be done by ordering the phase of the charge in circular motion via small corrective pulses in the same frequencyas the orbital frequency, and this is what we call resonance. It is a simple theory, and it is certainly not a proven fact.Question, what type of coil also has a high capacative coupling? In case that the transferred power to the outputis directly electrical, a capacitor construction would be much better, in stead of an output coil,such as double layer of metal foil with a dielectricum in between, rapped around the MEG core.The input circuit might be something similar: just metal foil around the core, and in stead of an input current,one might apply an input voltage. An input coil and an output coil is based on the idea of a dynamical magnetic flux,and I suppose that the extra power does not exist in the form of an extra magnetic flux change (the permanentmagnet flux cannot be switched). Bob: Ok, but why did he show the 2 wire pancake sketch in the patent?

Koen: because the two windings simply form a transformer (I suppose): a primary and a secondary winding in each others flux.

This way one can double the voltage.

Koen: But the extra voltage can also be explained by the Faraday disc effect

(= circular currents in a magnetic field are forced to flow to the edge of the disc because of the Lorentz force in radial direction).

Bob: I have never considered the Faraday effect without some mechanical rotation. You are stretching my brain here. I immediately agree that the field rotation is all that is needed.

Koen: I think you mean the relative rotating movement of the charge with respect to the field.

In a pancake coil the charge rotates in its own field, and the charge can also flows radially, then in principle there can be a Faraday effect

responsible for an extra voltage. The Faraday effect is the induction of an electrical potential between the center and edge

of a disc that rotates in a magnetic field. The pancake coil induces a magnetic field perpendicular to the rotating current,

so all the ingredients for the Faraday disc effect are present.

But all this is only making sense, IF and only IF the MEG not only produces magnetic fields, but also a radial electric field.

This is what Bearden says (non rotating A-potential) but he is not describing this theory in full detail.

I did this, and I also described the charge movement (ordering of the phase of circular currents) responsible

for the non-rotating A-potential. Bearden also refers to Oliver Heaviside´s "undiverged" energy flow, which is a

longitudinal energy flow in the direction of current, not perpendicular to current like the Poynting flow.

Bearden claims that this energy flow is driving the MEG, and I think he is right.

But again the Heaviside energy flow is not defined mathematically, until I did just this. It is simply ES, where E and S

are the electric and scalar fields. By ordering the phases of the charge in circular motion, a radial current flow

is created, and an energy flow in the direction of this current is also radial, therefore can be absorbed or transmitted

in the form of longitudinal electro-scalar waves, at least in theory.

See http://www.truth.myweb.nl/electrodynamics_secrets_IE.html for the exact mathematical theory that Bearden does

not give you (or only in a most difficult way via references to many papers).

The best one can do is to look for the resonance frequency, and that can only be the natural orbit frequency of the

magnetically polarized charge in the MEG core. This frequency depends on the permanent magnet field strength.

The counter flux, induced by the input coil, should have the effect of ordering the phases of all these little current loops

already present in the MEG core.

In Bearden´s own words: the MEG does not function as the usual transformer, and that means that not MORE dynamic

magnetic flux energy can be passed from input to output than the input energy itself.

Once the phases are ordered (not random anylonger) then a nett radial alternating current should be present, and therefore

also a nett radial alternating

**electric**potential, which has the same frequency as the input signal.The radial current is diverging/converging current, responsible for inducing also S = - div(A),

and this is the non-rotating A potential in the form of a scalar field and with field energy S².

The Heaviside energy flow is ES, or expressed in A-potential: div(A) d(A)/dt,

is absorbed by the MEG core as an extra energy input.

The essential idea is that order is created out of chaos with a smal input signal,

This is a reduction of entropy, and some new fields are induced.

At home I have the Honeywell Metglas cores, but I have not had time to experiment.

Hopefully in my vacation after 2 weeks from now, I should be able to begin.

Koen van Vlaenderen