Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

More on AL and its origin

Expand Messages
  • David Ball
    Hi Cyril, You said: If the Ac potential is depleted it is replenished from the magnet via the flux path, then radially from the core out to the point of
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 26, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Cyril,
       
      You said: If the Ac potential is depleted it is replenished from the magnet via the flux path, then radially from the core out to the point of interest. 
      I thought that the B field was the secondary effect of Ac. Perhaps physics has this wrong.
       
      I once placed a small 10nF rectangular polypropylene capacitor in the Gap between a MEG's magnet stack and the ferrite core. A voltage in phase with the secondary output appears across its terminals. You can not draw appreciable power, but it does indicate a rate of change of a magnetic field through the magnet. The capacitor was on the opposite side of the magnet away from the primaries. I initially thought that some of the primary B field was flowing through the magnet stack, so I wrapped a thick copper sleeve around the magnet (a shorted turn) however there was no difference.
      This effect then still remains a mystery. I assumed it was AL.
       
      Ac is the important field in the A-B effect, the reason I suggested secondary rectifiers is that my logic says if electron direction is important with respect to Acurl direction then to achieve a gain/loss of momentum output must be half wave rectified. Have not yet tested this since I am waiting for the Nanocrystaline core.
      I'm of the opinion that crucial details of the MEG are not disclosed, so my rectifier suggestion was purely speculation on my part.
       
      Another possibility of harnessing the AB effect (just something to ponder) is to wind Caduceus secondaries, connecting the coils so that the usual EMF bucks. Now in one direction the electron receives momentum, and in the other it losses momentum. If momentum translates to EMF then you have only the difference which is pure AB effect potential. - Free energy!
      Thoughts?
       
      Thanks very much Cyril for your insight! and taking the time and effort to explain things so well.
      If you have an opportunity could you look at message 266 in the MEG_Builders message files "Concise Mayer-Ball effect, and see if you can offer an explanation. Much appreciated.
       
      Best
      David
       
    • daemonphi@yahoo.com
      Hi Dave, I have two questions for you in regards to the cap in between the magnets, and the hot secondary lead. Could the cap in the magnet gap be simply
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 27, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Dave, I have two questions for you in regards to the cap in between
        the magnets, and the "hot" secondary lead.

        Could the cap in the magnet gap be simply exhibiting the Hall effect?
        Although your magnets have a low permiability, just slightly greater
        than that of air, which might provide a weak shunt path for the flux
        circulating in the core.
        I figure a hall sensor placed there would still pick up the
        fluctuations occuring in the core flux. Depending on how the leads
        are affixed internally to your poly cap, the effect could be occurring
        and capacitively coupling on edge of one plate, to the opposite
        potential on the opposite edge of the other plate maybe?

        And I read that message you referred to "concise Mayer/Ball effect"
        That to me sounds like capacitive loading from the surface area of
        whatever you are connecting the wire to. Kind of like the
        toroid/sphere often seen at the top of the classic Tesla coil?
        At high frequency, this can become a serious load. If the surface
        converges to a point then the energy density should ionize the air,
        (like a blue spark) and through the conductivity of the ionized air
        extend the surface area of the ambient capacitance further over the
        ionized region. I'm not sure but I think I read you were working in
        the 175k region? You might also consider that different capacitive
        loads might cause standing waves in your secondary or the lead out.

        Just thought they would be worth considering if you havent eliminated
        these as possibilities already.

        - Steve


        --- In MEG_builders@y..., "David Ball" <david@a...> wrote:
        >
        > Another possibility of harnessing the AB effect (just something to
        ponder) is to wind Caduceus secondaries, connecting the coils so that
        the usual EMF bucks. Now in one direction the electron receives
        momentum, and in the other it losses momentum. If momentum translates
        to EMF then you have only the difference which is pure AB effect
        potential. - Free energy!
        > Thoughts?

        Thats an interesting idea to me because I've been experimenting with
        anti helical and helical combinations of coils across the path length,
        tho not on top of each other, although the effect im exploring is a
        bit different. Maybe we are working on the same thing with a
        different model :) wouldnt a Caduceus type coil cancel the angular
        vectors against each other to just equate to the normal direction of B
        ? Or am I on the wrong planet here? Maybe there is some sort of
        velocity factor involved in correcting for the spread.


        - Steve
      • Cyril Smith
        Hi David, ... From: David Ball To: MEG_builders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 11:48 PM Subject: [MEG_builders] More on AL and its origin
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 27, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi David,
            
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 11:48 PM
          Subject: [MEG_builders] More on AL and its origin

          Hi Cyril,
           
          You said: If the Ac potential is depleted it is replenished from the magnet via the flux path, then radially from the core out to the point of interest. 
          I thought that the B field was the secondary effect of Ac. Perhaps physics has this wrong.
           
          No, physics has it right, Bearden has made it misunderstood.  Bearden doesn't mention the Ac within the core.  This is a circular field whose magnitude increases with radius from the centre, reaching a maximum value at the surface.  This internal Ac does have a curl, and there in the material you get the identity B=curlA.  Outside the material the Ac field reduces in magnitude with increasing radius; this external Ac has no curl so is "field free", i.e. there is no B.  This has been known for many years, but Bearden claims this to be a special property of his core material.  So what is causing what?, is the A field created by the B field or vice versa?  I think the best way to answer this question is to duck it!!  Both effects come from the alignment of the atomic dipoles in the material, so both B and A are created by moving charges, and the combined effect of many of these movements "create" the inside fields obeying B=curlA and the outside field of just A. 
           
          I once placed a small 10nF rectangular polypropylene capacitor in the Gap between a MEG's magnet stack and the ferrite core. A voltage in phase with the secondary output appears across its terminals. You can not draw appreciable power, but it does indicate a rate of change of a magnetic field through the magnet. The capacitor was on the opposite side of the magnet away from the primaries. I initially thought that some of the primary B field was flowing through the magnet stack, so I wrapped a thick copper sleeve around the magnet (a shorted turn) however there was no difference.
          This effect then still remains a mystery. I assumed it was AL.
           
          This is an interesting experiment.  Can you say what was the internal arrangement of the capacitor, stacked plates? how connected?  A changing magnetic field will induce a voltage in a dielectric.
           
          Ac is the important field in the A-B effect, the reason I suggested secondary rectifiers is that my logic says if electron direction is important with respect to Acurl direction then to achieve a gain/loss of momentum output must be half wave rectified. Have not yet tested this since I am waiting for the Nanocrystaline core.
          I'm of the opinion that crucial details of the MEG are not disclosed, so my rectifier suggestion was purely speculation on my part.
           
          And a good one see my recent post.
           
          Another possibility of harnessing the AB effect (just something to ponder) is to wind Caduceus secondaries, connecting the coils so that the usual EMF bucks. Now in one direction the electron receives momentum, and in the other it losses momentum. If momentum translates to EMF then you have only the difference which is pure AB effect potential. - Free energy!
          Thoughts?
           
          Yes we are on similar wavelengths here.
           
          Thanks very much Cyril for your insight! and taking the time and effort to explain things so well.
          If you have an opportunity could you look at message 266 in the MEG_Builders message files "Concise Mayer-Ball effect, and see if you can offer an explanation. Much appreciated.
           
          Yes when I get my dratted yahoo address.  When e-groups changed I didn't make a note of my new yahoo address and now I can't access the files.  Have been round their web loop "have you forgotten your password and yahoo address?" and I just keep going round in circles.  Must try emailing them.
           
          regards
          Cyril
        • David Ball
          Hi Cyril, As you say AL is best ignored. Bearden does say some intersting things about AL in his anotated glossary under A-potential Since you do not have a
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 27, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Cyril,
             
            As you say AL is best ignored.
            Bearden does say some intersting things about AL in his anotated glossary under A-potential
             
            Since you do not have a Yahoo ID/password, I attach the particular effect I was talking about for your comment:
             
            History:
            In a post from Digitoxin he described how "displacement current" causes inaccurate measurements on the MEG secondary.
            I mistakenly assumed that 'Displacement currents" were the real secret of the MEG's operation. I proposed a test variation of the MEG which you may see in the files section called 'POT-MEG'. Essentially it is designed to generate as much E field coupling as possible between the primary and secondary.
             
            Unusual secondary loading:
            It was discovered that the 'finish' secondary winding (furthermost away from the primary) was 'HOT'  Nearly all the output power flows only from this single lead through a load to earth (or any metal surface
            > A4 in size), even with the other end of the secondary completely
            disconnected! Stan Mayer observed the same effect - although not as pronounced as mine - and so I named the effect Mayer-Ball.
             
            Weird stuff;
            I observed during one test session a 10mm blue arc drawn from my scope probe to the loaded secondary. I have since not been able to duplicate this. However when using my normally accurate digital Multimeter to test the output voltage it reads off the scale >700Vac (again across the 28K getting HOT resistor) waveforms are pure sinewave 175KHz
             
            What is it?
            In an attempt to determine what this effect is, I was advised to place the MEG into a Faraday cage. This I have done, the MEG is operated on a battery inside the cage and only the single 'HOT' secondary lead is brought out of the Faraday cage, (Aluminium Brief case) The single wire connected to the 28K resistor, still causes the resistor to heat up when it's other end is connected to either the earth isolated scope, earth, faraday cage, or a piece of metal > A4 in size!
            My conclusion is that the current path is from the MEG down the secondary wire, through the load, and back to the MEG via EM. This is exactly what Digitoxin has stated. That the MEG and earth are Dipoles, and a current flows between them.
             
            Conclusion:
            I have not observed 'Displacement current' contributing as an OU mechanism.
            It has to be allowed for when making COP measurements on the MEG!
            Digitoxin has valuable insight.
            I need to know more about low frequency aerials!
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Friday, 28 September 2001 08:32
            Subject: Re: [MEG_builders] More on AL and its origin

            Hi David,
              
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 11:48 PM
            Subject: [MEG_builders] More on AL and its origin

            Hi Cyril,
             
            You said: If the Ac potential is depleted it is replenished from the magnet via the flux path, then radially from the core out to the point of interest. 
            I thought that the B field was the secondary effect of Ac. Perhaps physics has this wrong.
             
            No, physics has it right, Bearden has made it misunderstood.  Bearden doesn't mention the Ac within the core.  This is a circular field whose magnitude increases with radius from the centre, reaching a maximum value at the surface.  This internal Ac does have a curl, and there in the material you get the identity B=curlA.  Outside the material the Ac field reduces in magnitude with increasing radius; this external Ac has no curl so is "field free", i.e. there is no B.  This has been known for many years, but Bearden claims this to be a special property of his core material.  So what is causing what?, is the A field created by the B field or vice versa?  I think the best way to answer this question is to duck it!!  Both effects come from the alignment of the atomic dipoles in the material, so both B and A are created by moving charges, and the combined effect of many of these movements "create" the inside fields obeying B=curlA and the outside field of just A. 
             
            I once placed a small 10nF rectangular polypropylene capacitor in the Gap between a MEG's magnet stack and the ferrite core. A voltage in phase with the secondary output appears across its terminals. You can not draw appreciable power, but it does indicate a rate of change of a magnetic field through the magnet. The capacitor was on the opposite side of the magnet away from the primaries. I initially thought that some of the primary B field was flowing through the magnet stack, so I wrapped a thick copper sleeve around the magnet (a shorted turn) however there was no difference.
            This effect then still remains a mystery. I assumed it was AL.
             
            This is an interesting experiment.  Can you say what was the internal arrangement of the capacitor, stacked plates? how connected?  A changing magnetic field will induce a voltage in a dielectric.
             
            Ac is the important field in the A-B effect, the reason I suggested secondary rectifiers is that my logic says if electron direction is important with respect to Acurl direction then to achieve a gain/loss of momentum output must be half wave rectified. Have not yet tested this since I am waiting for the Nanocrystaline core.
            I'm of the opinion that crucial details of the MEG are not disclosed, so my rectifier suggestion was purely speculation on my part.
             
            And a good one see my recent post.
             
            Another possibility of harnessing the AB effect (just something to ponder) is to wind Caduceus secondaries, connecting the coils so that the usual EMF bucks. Now in one direction the electron receives momentum, and in the other it losses momentum. If momentum translates to EMF then you have only the difference which is pure AB effect potential. - Free energy!
            Thoughts?
             
            Yes we are on similar wavelengths here.
             
            Thanks very much Cyril for your insight! and taking the time and effort to explain things so well.
            If you have an opportunity could you look at message 266 in the MEG_Builders message files "Concise Mayer-Ball effect, and see if you can offer an explanation. Much appreciated.
             
            Yes when I get my dratted yahoo address.  When e-groups changed I didn't make a note of my new yahoo address and now I can't access the files.  Have been round their web loop "have you forgotten your password and yahoo address?" and I just keep going round in circles.  Must try emailing them.
             
            regards
            Cyril


            Main page:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEG_builders


              To post a message to this group, send email to
              MEG_Builders@yahoogroups.com

              To contact the moderator of this group, send email to
              MEG_Builders-owner@yahoogroups.com

              To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
              MEG_Builders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com





            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • Cyril Smith
            Hi David, Do you know about self capacitance? Most engineers (me included in my early days!) find the concept of a one-terminal capacitance impossible to
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 28, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi David,
               
              Do you know about self capacitance?  Most engineers (me included in my early days!) find the concept of a one-terminal capacitance impossible to believe, yet it does exist.  Any conductive body has a capacitance to earth, no matter how far away "earth" is.  If you raise a body to a potential it will store electric charge on its outside surface; self capacitance is the ratio of this charge to the potential.  Clearly the bigger a body the greater its self capaciatnce, but shape also comes into it.  A good estimate for self capaciatnce value is 2*pi*enought*d where d is a maximum dimension of the body. When you have high frequency and high voltage the currents going into self capacitance can be quiet significant.  I did a lot of work on capacitive proximity detectors which is where I got into this field.
               
              Regards
              Cyril
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 10:08 PM
              Subject: Re: [MEG_builders] More on AL and its origin

              Hi Cyril,
               
              As you say AL is best ignored.
              Bearden does say some intersting things about AL in his anotated glossary under A-potential
               
              Since you do not have a Yahoo ID/password, I attach the particular effect I was talking about for your comment:
               
              History:
              In a post from Digitoxin he described how "displacement current" causes inaccurate measurements on the MEG secondary.
              I mistakenly assumed that 'Displacement currents" were the real secret of the MEG's operation. I proposed a test variation of the MEG which you may see in the files section called 'POT-MEG'. Essentially it is designed to generate as much E field coupling as possible between the primary and secondary.
               
              Unusual secondary loading:
              It was discovered that the 'finish' secondary winding (furthermost away from the primary) was 'HOT'  Nearly all the output power flows only from this single lead through a load to earth (or any metal surface > A4 in size), even with the other end of the secondary completely disconnected! Stan Mayer observed the same effect - although not as pronounced as mine - and so I named the effect Mayer-Ball.
               
              Weird stuff;
              I observed during one test session a 10mm blue arc drawn from my scope probe to the loaded secondary. I have since not been able to duplicate this. However when using my normally accurate digital Multimeter to test the output voltage it reads off the scale >700Vac (again across the 28K getting HOT resistor) waveforms are pure sinewave 175KHz
               
              What is it?
              In an attempt to determine what this effect is, I was advised to place the MEG into a Faraday cage. This I have done, the MEG is operated on a battery inside the cage and only the single 'HOT' secondary lead is brought out of the Faraday cage, (Aluminium Brief case) The single wire connected to the 28K resistor, still causes the resistor to heat up when it's other end is connected to either the earth isolated scope, earth, faraday cage, or a piece of metal > A4 in size!
              My conclusion is that the current path is from the MEG down the secondary wire, through the load, and back to the MEG via EM. This is exactly what Digitoxin has stated. That the MEG and earth are Dipoles, and a current flows between them.
               
              Conclusion:
              I have not observed 'Displacement current' contributing as an OU mechanism.
              It has to be allowed for when making COP measurements on the MEG!
              Digitoxin has valuable insight.
              I need to know more about low frequency aerials!
            • David Ball
              Hi Steve, Ref: cap in magnet gap...I did this experiment back in February, it is easy to duplicate. I did earth the magnet and core and tie one end of the
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 30, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Steve,

                Ref: cap in magnet gap...I did this experiment back in February, it is easy
                to duplicate.
                I did earth the magnet and core and tie one end of the capacitor to earth
                via the scope lead. The voltage was still there. I also applied a 100K
                resistor, the output voltage fell appreciably, but again was still present.
                Sorry I can't give any more details than this, an interesting effect which
                at the time did not seem important.
                Perhaps you could try a Hall effect sensor in the magnet gap with your
                set-up, it may be a little while before I'm ready to resume testing.

                Ref: Capacitive loading.... Certainly considered this, however the current
                must surely decrease with the square of the distance from any earth plane.
                This does not occur! The current is always the same. So for me it remains a
                mystery. Regarding ionising air etc, The single secondary lead was nearly 1
                metre long, this was so that I could move the load well away from the
                faraday shielded MEG, The Oscilloscope voltage measurement was typically
                250V @175KHz, at such voltages and distances I would not expect ionisation
                of the air to occur.

                David


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <daemonphi@...>
                To: <MEG_builders@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, 28 September 2001 08:13
                Subject: [MEG_builders] Re: Mayer/Ball effect, inline capacitor, Caduceus


                > Hi Dave, I have two questions for you in regards to the cap in between
                > the magnets, and the "hot" secondary lead.
                >
                > Could the cap in the magnet gap be simply exhibiting the Hall effect?
                > Although your magnets have a low permiability, just slightly greater
                > than that of air, which might provide a weak shunt path for the flux
                > circulating in the core.
                > I figure a hall sensor placed there would still pick up the
                > fluctuations occuring in the core flux. Depending on how the leads
                > are affixed internally to your poly cap, the effect could be occurring
                > and capacitively coupling on edge of one plate, to the opposite
                > potential on the opposite edge of the other plate maybe?
                >
                > And I read that message you referred to "concise Mayer/Ball effect"
                > That to me sounds like capacitive loading from the surface area of
                > whatever you are connecting the wire to. Kind of like the
                > toroid/sphere often seen at the top of the classic Tesla coil?
                > At high frequency, this can become a serious load. If the surface
                > converges to a point then the energy density should ionize the air,
                > (like a blue spark) and through the conductivity of the ionized air
                > extend the surface area of the ambient capacitance further over the
                > ionized region. I'm not sure but I think I read you were working in
                > the 175k region? You might also consider that different capacitive
                > loads might cause standing waves in your secondary or the lead out.
                >
                > Just thought they would be worth considering if you havent eliminated
                > these as possibilities already.
                >
                > - Steve
                >
                >
                > --- In MEG_builders@y..., "David Ball" <david@a...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Another possibility of harnessing the AB effect (just something to
                > ponder) is to wind Caduceus secondaries, connecting the coils so that
                > the usual EMF bucks. Now in one direction the electron receives
                > momentum, and in the other it losses momentum. If momentum translates
                > to EMF then you have only the difference which is pure AB effect
                > potential. - Free energy!
                > > Thoughts?
                >
                > Thats an interesting idea to me because I've been experimenting with
                > anti helical and helical combinations of coils across the path length,
                > tho not on top of each other, although the effect im exploring is a
                > bit different. Maybe we are working on the same thing with a
                > different model :) wouldnt a Caduceus type coil cancel the angular
                > vectors against each other to just equate to the normal direction of B
                > ? Or am I on the wrong planet here? Maybe there is some sort of
                > velocity factor involved in correcting for the spread.
                >
                >
                > - Steve
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Main page:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEG_builders
                >
                >
                > To post a message to this group, send email to
                > MEG_Builders@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > To contact the moderator of this group, send email to
                > MEG_Builders-owner@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
                > MEG_Builders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • Cyril Smith
                Hi David, ... From: David Ball To: Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 4:45 AM Subject: Re: [MEG_builders] Re:
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 1, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi David,

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: David Ball <david@...>
                  To: <MEG_builders@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 4:45 AM
                  Subject: Re: [MEG_builders] Re: Mayer/Ball effect, inline capacitor,
                  Caduceus


                  > Hi Steve,
                  > snip....
                  > Ref: Capacitive loading.... Certainly considered this, however the current
                  > must surely decrease with the square of the distance from any earth plane.

                  No, not in the case of self capacitance. Self capacitance is independant of
                  distance from earth. Self capacitance is not the same as the mutual
                  capacitance that we all know and love. Put a body out in space, you can
                  place electric charge on that body (if you have a long enough wire!) but to
                  do so you must apply a voltage. Self capacitance is the ratio of that
                  charge to that voltage. Of course when you do that you also place an equal
                  and opposite charge on the self capacitance of our earth, but that
                  capacitance value is so large that the voltage change on earth is tiny,
                  unmeasurable, so we ignore it.

                  Regards
                  Cyril
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.