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Re: MEG replication

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  • George Pitts
    Hi Lichtrov, What was your gate driving voltage and frequency? You will get mysteriously little out of Bearden and Naudin, if anything. Dr. GG Pitz
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 15, 2007
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      Hi Lichtrov,

      What was your gate driving voltage and frequency? You will get
      mysteriously little out of Bearden and Naudin, if anything.

      Dr. GG Pitz

      lichtrov wrote:
      >
      > Hi all!
      >
      > I'm an EE and was intriqued by MEG because of simple circuitry
      > required to operate. I've built my own replication of the MEG - also
      > unsuccessfully (I mean I didn't obtain COP > 1). In my controller I
      > can independently change both frequency and duty cycle of the gate
      > driving voltage. My MEG has taps on both primary and secondary
      > windings and I can play with turns ratio. While working without load,
      > I obtained output voltage with close to sine waveform and amplitudes
      > around reported by Bearden and Naudin. However, after loading the
      > output (even lightly with 100kOhm resistor), output voltage decreases
      > significantly to a few volts.
      >
      > It's pretty hard to debug the device since I don't understand how it
      > should work. I started to dig into Berden's patent and I have a
      > question: does anybody have an idea how Bearden measured the current
      > in both primary (Fig 6D) and secondary (Figs 6G,H)?
      >
      > The question arised because the primary current he described has
      > extremely small duty cycle - around 1 microsecond for both rise and
      > fall. It supposes duty cycle with around 500 nanoseconds of active
      > driving voltage - nothing comparable can be seen in Figs 6A,B. Also I
      > tried to build high side current measurement circuit and (even with
      > most recent chips!) it has around 500kHz bandwidth and cannot provide
      > such a sharp waveform. Thus I presume that Tom measured a voltage on
      > a small low side resistor. The voltage produced by such measurement
      > can have short spikes as presented in Fig 6D because of capacitive
      > coupling from adjacent circuitry and even from the ground ripple
      > itself.
      >
      >
    • Erin Casson
      Hello! Keep up the good work on that MEG. Basically (from what I understand), it is transforming ether/virtual particle flux energy into the circuits. Erin
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 15, 2007
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        Hello! Keep up the good work on that MEG. Basically (from what I understand), it is transforming ether/virtual particle flux energy into the circuits.

        Erin



        lichtrov <lichtrov@...> wrote:
        Hi all!

        I'm an EE and was intriqued by MEG because of simple circuitry
        required to operate. I've built my own replication of the MEG - also
        unsuccessfully (I mean I didn't obtain COP > 1). In my controller I
        can independently change both frequency and duty cycle of the gate
        driving voltage. My MEG has taps on both primary and secondary
        windings and I can play with turns ratio. While working without load,
        I obtained output voltage with close to sine waveform and amplitudes
        around reported by Bearden and Naudin. However, after loading the
        output (even lightly with 100kOhm resistor), output voltage decreases
        significantly to a few volts.

        It's pretty hard to debug the device since I don't understand how it
        should work. I started to dig into Berden's patent and I have a
        question: does anybody have an idea how Bearden measured the current
        in both primary (Fig 6D) and secondary (Figs 6G,H)?

        The question arised because the primary current he described has
        extremely small duty cycle - around 1 microsecond for both rise and
        fall. It supposes duty cycle with around 500 nanoseconds of active
        driving voltage - nothing comparable can be seen in Figs 6A,B. Also I
        tried to build high side current measurement circuit and (even with
        most recent chips!) it has around 500kHz bandwidth and cannot provide
        such a sharp waveform. Thus I presume that Tom measured a voltage on
        a small low side resistor. The voltage produced by such measurement
        can have short spikes as presented in Fig 6D because of capacitive
        coupling from adjacent circuitry and even from the ground ripple
        itself.



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        Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

      • Kent Andersen
        Sounds like you have done quite a bit of homework. This seems to be a typical result from MEG builders In a video that I watched where bearden goes into detail
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 16, 2007
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          Sounds like you have done quite a bit of homework. This seems to be a
          typical result from MEG builders
          In a video that I watched where bearden goes into detail on the MEG's
          operation it is more of a L/C
          type of circuit. from what he said in that video the input waveform is
          like /`\ ramp up and ramp down.
          as you can tell there are some sweet spots between pulse width and
          frequency of the drive signal.
          since its a L/C circuit you must design a load match transformer that
          will allow you to pull power out of it.
          simply putting a resistive load across the output will detune the
          circuit and throw it out of its "balance"
          I have not done this myself yet as I have been short on time but that is
          my next step to design a, more or
          less a balun or unun to decouple the meg from the effects of the load.

          (Kent)

          lichtrov wrote:
          >
          > Hi all!
          >
          > I'm an EE and was intriqued by MEG because of simple circuitry
          > required to operate. I've built my own replication of the MEG - also
          > unsuccessfully (I mean I didn't obtain COP > 1). In my controller I
          > can independently change both frequency and duty cycle of the gate
          > driving voltage. My MEG has taps on both primary and secondary
          > windings and I can play with turns ratio. While working without load,
          > I obtained output voltage with close to sine waveform and amplitudes
          > around reported by Bearden and Naudin. However, after loading the
          > output (even lightly with 100kOhm resistor), output voltage decreases
          > significantly to a few volts.
          >
          > It's pretty hard to debug the device since I don't understand how it
          > should work. I started to dig into Berden's patent and I have a
          > question: does anybody have an idea how Bearden measured the current
          > in both primary (Fig 6D) and secondary (Figs 6G,H)?
          >
          > The question arised because the primary current he described has
          > extremely small duty cycle - around 1 microsecond for both rise and
          > fall. It supposes duty cycle with around 500 nanoseconds of active
          > driving voltage - nothing comparable can be seen in Figs 6A,B. Also I
          > tried to build high side current measurement circuit and (even with
          > most recent chips!) it has around 500kHz bandwidth and cannot provide
          > such a sharp waveform. Thus I presume that Tom measured a voltage on
          > a small low side resistor. The voltage produced by such measurement
          > can have short spikes as presented in Fig 6D because of capacitive
          > coupling from adjacent circuitry and even from the ground ripple
          > itself.
          >
          >
        • Wayne Robey
          ... That makes sense since the primary and secondary should be closely coupled ( as distinct from the sine output of a high Q self resonant secondary that is
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 24, 2007
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            --- Kent Andersen <sci@...> wrote:

            > Sounds like you have done quite a bit of homework. This seems to be a
            > typical result from MEG builders
            > In a video that I watched where bearden goes into detail on the MEG's
            > operation it is more of a L/C
            > type of circuit. from what he said in that video the input waveform
            > is
            > like /`\ ramp up and ramp down.

            That makes sense since the primary and secondary should be closely
            coupled ( as distinct from the sine output of a high Q self resonant
            secondary that is loosely coupled)

            > since its a L/C circuit you must design a load match transformer that
            > will allow you to pull power out of it.
            > simply putting a resistive load across the output will detune the
            > circuit and throw it out of its "balance"

            That does not make sense, a resistive load would lower the Q but by
            definition not detune anything. It would change the flux in the core,
            so that would change the inductance a bit, and some frequency & dwell
            adjustments could possibly be helpful. Does the "load match"
            transformer you mention have something to do with drawing power from
            both secondarys equally to maintain the balance between the sides?

            > I have not done this myself yet as I have been short on time but that
            > is
            > my next step to design a, more or
            > less a balun or unun to decouple the meg from the effects of the
            > load.
            >
            > (Kent)


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          • Kent Andersen
            well I think you could use a smaller secondary coil on it. Most of these guys go for big voltage because they get the idea that big voltage = big power. you
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 25, 2007
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              well I think you could use a smaller secondary coil on it. Most of these
              guys go for big voltage
              because they get the idea that big voltage = big power.
              you might try youtube.com they sometimes have these videos pirated there.
              Bearden is selling the video on his website here.
              http://www.cheniere.org/sales/buy-e1.htm

              he has completely moved away from his theories of phase conjugation
              (junk science stuff)
              to more practical theories that everyone else in the scientific
              community is using.
              I would surely check out that video if you can before you go out
              spending big wads of cash
              do your research as it is known that the patents do not contain all of
              the information required
              to reproduce what it is claimed to do.
              some other data you might want to look at is here if you have not already
              http://jnaudin.free.fr/meg/meg.htm

              I recently purchased 2 of the metglass C cores AMCC500 which I am going
              to use in some experiments
              with ferro magnetic resonance. they were 179.00 per pair.. so if you
              decide to build a meg prepare
              to go for a ride.

              Hope that helps

              Kent

              lichtrov wrote:
              >
              > Thank you for the response. I'm thinking about load matching also.
              >
              > Where the video, you're talking about, can be downloaded from?
              >
              > And one more question: does anybody have an idea why such a huge
              > secondary voltage is required (TB in the patent claims that it can be
              > lowered with smaller secondary windings, but I didn't see anything
              > done with low secondary voltage)?
              >
              > --- In MEG_builders@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:MEG_builders%40yahoogroups.com>, Kent Andersen <sci@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Sounds like you have done quite a bit of homework. This seems to be
              > a
              > > typical result from MEG builders
              > > In a video that I watched where bearden goes into detail on the
              > MEG's
              > > operation it is more of a L/C
              > > type of circuit. from what he said in that video the input waveform
              > is
              > > like /`\ ramp up and ramp down.
              > > as you can tell there are some sweet spots between pulse width and
              > > frequency of the drive signal.
              > > since its a L/C circuit you must design a load match transformer
              > that
              > > will allow you to pull power out of it.
              > > simply putting a resistive load across the output will detune the
              > > circuit and throw it out of its "balance"
              > > I have not done this myself yet as I have been short on time but
              > that is
              > > my next step to design a, more or
              > > less a balun or unun to decouple the meg from the effects of the
              > load.
              > >
              > > (Kent)
              > >
              > > lichtrov wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi all!
              > > >
              > > > I'm an EE and was intriqued by MEG because of simple circuitry
              > > > required to operate. I've built my own replication of the MEG -
              > also
              > > > unsuccessfully (I mean I didn't obtain COP > 1). In my controller
              > I
              > > > can independently change both frequency and duty cycle of the gate
              > > > driving voltage. My MEG has taps on both primary and secondary
              > > > windings and I can play with turns ratio. While working without
              > load,
              > > > I obtained output voltage with close to sine waveform and
              > amplitudes
              > > > around reported by Bearden and Naudin. However, after loading the
              > > > output (even lightly with 100kOhm resistor), output voltage
              > decreases
              > > > significantly to a few volts.
              > > >
              > > > It's pretty hard to debug the device since I don't understand how
              > it
              > > > should work. I started to dig into Berden's patent and I have a
              > > > question: does anybody have an idea how Bearden measured the
              > current
              > > > in both primary (Fig 6D) and secondary (Figs 6G,H)?
              > > >
              > > > The question arised because the primary current he described has
              > > > extremely small duty cycle - around 1 microsecond for both rise
              > and
              > > > fall. It supposes duty cycle with around 500 nanoseconds of active
              > > > driving voltage - nothing comparable can be seen in Figs 6A,B.
              > Also I
              > > > tried to build high side current measurement circuit and (even
              > with
              > > > most recent chips!) it has around 500kHz bandwidth and cannot
              > provide
              > > > such a sharp waveform. Thus I presume that Tom measured a voltage
              > on
              > > > a small low side resistor. The voltage produced by such
              > measurement
              > > > can have short spikes as presented in Fig 6D because of capacitive
              > > > coupling from adjacent circuitry and even from the ground ripple
              > > > itself.
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
            • lichtrov
              Thank you for the response. I m thinking about load matching also. Where the video, you re talking about, can be downloaded from? And one more question: does
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 26, 2007
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                Thank you for the response. I'm thinking about load matching also.

                Where the video, you're talking about, can be downloaded from?

                And one more question: does anybody have an idea why such a huge
                secondary voltage is required (TB in the patent claims that it can be
                lowered with smaller secondary windings, but I didn't see anything
                done with low secondary voltage)?

                --- In MEG_builders@yahoogroups.com, Kent Andersen <sci@...> wrote:
                >
                > Sounds like you have done quite a bit of homework. This seems to be
                a
                > typical result from MEG builders
                > In a video that I watched where bearden goes into detail on the
                MEG's
                > operation it is more of a L/C
                > type of circuit. from what he said in that video the input waveform
                is
                > like /`\ ramp up and ramp down.
                > as you can tell there are some sweet spots between pulse width and
                > frequency of the drive signal.
                > since its a L/C circuit you must design a load match transformer
                that
                > will allow you to pull power out of it.
                > simply putting a resistive load across the output will detune the
                > circuit and throw it out of its "balance"
                > I have not done this myself yet as I have been short on time but
                that is
                > my next step to design a, more or
                > less a balun or unun to decouple the meg from the effects of the
                load.
                >
                > (Kent)
                >
                > lichtrov wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi all!
                > >
                > > I'm an EE and was intriqued by MEG because of simple circuitry
                > > required to operate. I've built my own replication of the MEG -
                also
                > > unsuccessfully (I mean I didn't obtain COP > 1). In my controller
                I
                > > can independently change both frequency and duty cycle of the gate
                > > driving voltage. My MEG has taps on both primary and secondary
                > > windings and I can play with turns ratio. While working without
                load,
                > > I obtained output voltage with close to sine waveform and
                amplitudes
                > > around reported by Bearden and Naudin. However, after loading the
                > > output (even lightly with 100kOhm resistor), output voltage
                decreases
                > > significantly to a few volts.
                > >
                > > It's pretty hard to debug the device since I don't understand how
                it
                > > should work. I started to dig into Berden's patent and I have a
                > > question: does anybody have an idea how Bearden measured the
                current
                > > in both primary (Fig 6D) and secondary (Figs 6G,H)?
                > >
                > > The question arised because the primary current he described has
                > > extremely small duty cycle - around 1 microsecond for both rise
                and
                > > fall. It supposes duty cycle with around 500 nanoseconds of active
                > > driving voltage - nothing comparable can be seen in Figs 6A,B.
                Also I
                > > tried to build high side current measurement circuit and (even
                with
                > > most recent chips!) it has around 500kHz bandwidth and cannot
                provide
                > > such a sharp waveform. Thus I presume that Tom measured a voltage
                on
                > > a small low side resistor. The voltage produced by such
                measurement
                > > can have short spikes as presented in Fig 6D because of capacitive
                > > coupling from adjacent circuitry and even from the ground ripple
                > > itself.
                > >
                > >
                >
              • Wayne Robey
                ... My speculation based on Naudin s observations that his HV windings gave out due to internal corona discharge after extensive testing and his claim that a
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 26, 2007
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                  --- lichtrov <lichtrov@...> wrote:

                  > And one more question: does anybody have an idea why such a huge
                  > secondary voltage is required (TB in the patent claims that it can be
                  >
                  > lowered with smaller secondary windings, but I didn't see anything
                  > done with low secondary voltage)?
                  >
                  My speculation based on Naudin's observations that his HV windings gave
                  out due to internal corona discharge after extensive testing and his
                  claim that a conditioned resistor (which I think may have internal
                  discontinuities serving as sites for micro arcs) is that these
                  discharges are essential, so if his design worked when using low
                  voltage wire, it may fail simply by changing to 5 KV rated magnet wire.



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                • softwarelabus
                  Hi, At this very moment you can purchase the Metglas AMCC 320 cores for $110 from http://elnamagnetics.com There s some very important information MEG
                  Message 8 of 11 , Apr 29, 2007
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                    Hi,

                    At this very moment you can purchase the Metglas AMCC 320 cores for
                    $110 from http://elnamagnetics.com

                    There's some very important information MEG researchers should know
                    about. I spoke with the engineer at Metglas and he said it's difficult
                    to couple the two U-shaped cut cores together tight enough to achieve
                    the materials exceptionally high permeability and coercivity. In fact,
                    the Metglas engineer said his test, which consisted of taping two
                    pressed cores together, resulted in a completely flat BH-curve with
                    relatively low permeability. I'm not certain how much pressure one
                    needs to apply on the core halves, but one should be very cautious as
                    such nanocrystalline and amorphous material is brittle. My suggestion
                    is to rub the two cores together thereby creating some micro powder to
                    fill in any gaps, and then press the two cores together. To verify the
                    two cores are correctly coupled you could apply two static AC signals.
                    One signal would be strong low frequency, no higher than 1 Hz. The
                    other will be a weak higher frequency signal of a few KHz's. It's
                    important the KHz signals peak to peak current remain relatively
                    constant. To achieve this you could place a high resistance resistor
                    in series with the KHz signal so it's peak to peak current does not
                    change much as the 1 Hz signal changes. The 1 Hz signal peak must be
                    high enough to saturate the core. Next, view the induced voltage on a
                    secondary coil. If the two cores are correctly coupled then the KHz
                    signal should mostly be low in amplitude along with a blip high in
                    amplitude. On the other hand, an improperly coupled core should
                    result in a flat KHz signal with no blip.

                    Also you'll want to store such cores stored in a desiccator-- low
                    humidity environment. Believe it or not, cheap cat litter that
                    contains silica gel works great. You'll want to microwave the cat
                    litter to expel the absorbed moisture. Once it cools then place it in
                    a seal tight bag or container along with the nanocrystalline core.
                    This will prevent the core from oxidizing.

                    I learned some very concerning information from the Metglas engineer.
                    The AMCC cores are not longitudinally annealed, but no-field annealed.
                    I don't know if they were ever longitudinally annealed, but this was a
                    shocker since my computer simulations (based on conventional physics)
                    shows the "free energy" comes from a coil robbing Magnetic entropy
                    away from Lattice entropy, which occurs when the core goes to
                    saturation. Present simulations indicate longitudinally annealed cores
                    have appreciable magnetic entropy, and non-annealed cores have
                    significantly less magnetic entropy, and transversely annealed cores
                    have negative entropy when such material is saturated. Actually
                    simulations show transversely annealed cores behave erratically
                    depending on various situations. Note that two U-shaped cores not
                    properly coupled perform just like a transversely annealed core. This
                    gap effect is seen in simulations due to the micro gaps between the
                    cut core.

                    In a nutshell, it's very important to verify your cut AMCC core is
                    properly coupled and exhibits the materials natural exceptionally high
                    permeability and coercivity. According to simulations the high
                    coercivity is very important in achieving magnetic entropy.


                    Here's an outline of what the simulation software reveals. With no
                    applied field the magnetic dipole moments on such material on average
                    are appreciably unaligned because the longitudinally annealing
                    discourages domain structure-- lower order, higher magnetic entropy.
                    When the core is saturated the magnetic moments are aligned-- high
                    order, low magnetic entropy. Normally when magnetic entropy decreases
                    there's an increase in lattice entropy. Meaning, magnetic entropy is
                    converted to heat. This is a well-understood process known as MCE
                    (Magnetocaloric effect). MCE is difficult to notice in typical
                    magnetic materials at room temp because the domains are mostly
                    saturated with no applied field; i.e., low magnetic entropy. When the
                    material is above Curie temp the magnetic moments are in disorder, the
                    domains are destroyed; i.e., high magnetic entropy. The problem is
                    such materials have hardly any permeability above Curie. Although,
                    Superparamagnetic materials have high magnetic entropy well below
                    Curie. According to simulations, such material with exceptionally
                    high permeability require extraordinarily small amount of energy from
                    the coil used as a catalyst to convert magnetic entropy to lattice
                    entropy (heat). Last year I witnessed MCE in a Metglas transversely
                    annealed core, but at the time I couldn't figure out why the effect
                    was so erratic, and even reverse some times. Actually I asked Metglas
                    for a longitudinally annealed core, but oddly enough they sent me the
                    worst type of core for "free energy," a transversely annealed core.
                    Recently, after discovering this, I bought some Metglas MAGAMP cores,
                    which are uncut longitudinally annealed 2714A core material. I'm still
                    in the process of measuring MCE at room temperature in such cores, but
                    so far it appears they definitely exhibit appreciable MCE at room
                    temperature. :-)

                    How to capture such magnetic entropy away from lattice entropy is
                    another story. What occurs is electrons flip, which generates a pulse,
                    emits photons. The flip rate depends on the type of atoms, lattice,
                    and material electrical resistance. Such Metglas cores have low
                    electrical resistance, which can significantly slow down the flip rate
                    due to eddy currents. Note that 18 micro tape wound cores reduce macro
                    eddy currents, but not nano scale eddy currents around the atomic
                    flip. Ideally the coil would collect a percentage of the pulse,
                    magnetic entropy. So now the core is saturated-- align magnetic
                    moments, low magnetic entropy. According to standard physics it
                    requires energy to break such magnetic alignments. Temperature
                    (vibrating atoms) breaks such magnetic bonds, which is why such
                    magnetic materials cool down when the applied field is removed-- the
                    later half of MCE. Therefore, the coil captures energy that is
                    normally converted to lattice entropy. When the field is removed the
                    material cools slightly more than it stated.

                    The end results are a device that moves ambient energy at the output,
                    which cools the core. Recent simulations are showing the core domain
                    structure can abruptly change when this occurs. If true, then it would
                    require a machine that adapts and re-tunes itself continuously and
                    dynamically. That could explain why Naudin had trouble closing the
                    loop. There seems to be controversy what Naudin failed. All I know is
                    that a person who lives in France, was in direct contact with Naudin,
                    and claimed that Naudin did indeed closed the loop, but the MEG would
                    run for a very brief time. He said Naudin could not figure it out. If
                    Naudin was capturing ambient energy from the core, then it's my
                    opinion that such a device is finely tuned and highly balanced, and a
                    slight change in core temperature would cause significant domain
                    structure. I think the Metglas MEG is legitimate, but someone needs to
                    spend the time to figure out how to make the circuit adapt to the
                    cores changes and/or somehow keep the inner core at a stable temperature.

                    My final comment on the MEG is that presently I see no way of capture
                    such Magnetic entropy from ferrite cores. In a nutshell, such ferrite
                    cores are made of powdered iron. A bonding material separates the iron
                    particles. Therefore, with no applied field, each iron particle will
                    be appreciably saturated due to strong domains. Furthermore, a
                    saturated core would actually have *less* B-field magnetic entropy due
                    to the iron particle separations as caused by the bonding material.
                    Perhaps an intensely longitudinally annealed ferrite core could work.
                    Regardless, it's difficult to beat nanocrystalline and amorphous cores
                    that have permeability over 500000, especially if they are
                    longitudinally annealed! :-)


                    Regards,
                    Paul Lowrance






                    --- In MEG_builders@yahoogroups.com, Kent Andersen <sci@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > well I think you could use a smaller secondary coil on it. Most of these
                    > guys go for big voltage
                    > because they get the idea that big voltage = big power.
                    > you might try youtube.com they sometimes have these videos pirated
                    there.
                    > Bearden is selling the video on his website here.
                    > http://www.cheniere.org/sales/buy-e1.htm
                    >
                    > he has completely moved away from his theories of phase conjugation
                    > (junk science stuff)
                    > to more practical theories that everyone else in the scientific
                    > community is using.
                    > I would surely check out that video if you can before you go out
                    > spending big wads of cash
                    > do your research as it is known that the patents do not contain all of
                    > the information required
                    > to reproduce what it is claimed to do.
                    > some other data you might want to look at is here if you have not
                    already
                    > http://jnaudin.free.fr/meg/meg.htm
                    >
                    > I recently purchased 2 of the metglass C cores AMCC500 which I am going
                    > to use in some experiments
                    > with ferro magnetic resonance. they were 179.00 per pair.. so if you
                    > decide to build a meg prepare
                    > to go for a ride.
                    >
                    > Hope that helps
                    >
                    > Kent
                    >
                    > lichtrov wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Thank you for the response. I'm thinking about load matching also.
                    > >
                    > > Where the video, you're talking about, can be downloaded from?
                    > >
                    > > And one more question: does anybody have an idea why such a huge
                    > > secondary voltage is required (TB in the patent claims that it can be
                    > > lowered with smaller secondary windings, but I didn't see anything
                    > > done with low secondary voltage)?
                    > >
                    > > --- In MEG_builders@yahoogroups.com
                    > > <mailto:MEG_builders%40yahoogroups.com>, Kent Andersen <sci@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Sounds like you have done quite a bit of homework. This seems to be
                    > > a
                    > > > typical result from MEG builders
                    > > > In a video that I watched where bearden goes into detail on the
                    > > MEG's
                    > > > operation it is more of a L/C
                    > > > type of circuit. from what he said in that video the input waveform
                    > > is
                    > > > like /`\ ramp up and ramp down.
                    > > > as you can tell there are some sweet spots between pulse width and
                    > > > frequency of the drive signal.
                    > > > since its a L/C circuit you must design a load match transformer
                    > > that
                    > > > will allow you to pull power out of it.
                    > > > simply putting a resistive load across the output will detune the
                    > > > circuit and throw it out of its "balance"
                    > > > I have not done this myself yet as I have been short on time but
                    > > that is
                    > > > my next step to design a, more or
                    > > > less a balun or unun to decouple the meg from the effects of the
                    > > load.
                    > > >
                    > > > (Kent)
                    > > >
                    > > > lichtrov wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hi all!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I'm an EE and was intriqued by MEG because of simple circuitry
                    > > > > required to operate. I've built my own replication of the MEG -
                    > > also
                    > > > > unsuccessfully (I mean I didn't obtain COP > 1). In my controller
                    > > I
                    > > > > can independently change both frequency and duty cycle of the gate
                    > > > > driving voltage. My MEG has taps on both primary and secondary
                    > > > > windings and I can play with turns ratio. While working without
                    > > load,
                    > > > > I obtained output voltage with close to sine waveform and
                    > > amplitudes
                    > > > > around reported by Bearden and Naudin. However, after loading the
                    > > > > output (even lightly with 100kOhm resistor), output voltage
                    > > decreases
                    > > > > significantly to a few volts.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > It's pretty hard to debug the device since I don't understand how
                    > > it
                    > > > > should work. I started to dig into Berden's patent and I have a
                    > > > > question: does anybody have an idea how Bearden measured the
                    > > current
                    > > > > in both primary (Fig 6D) and secondary (Figs 6G,H)?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The question arised because the primary current he described has
                    > > > > extremely small duty cycle - around 1 microsecond for both rise
                    > > and
                    > > > > fall. It supposes duty cycle with around 500 nanoseconds of active
                    > > > > driving voltage - nothing comparable can be seen in Figs 6A,B.
                    > > Also I
                    > > > > tried to build high side current measurement circuit and (even
                    > > with
                    > > > > most recent chips!) it has around 500kHz bandwidth and cannot
                    > > provide
                    > > > > such a sharp waveform. Thus I presume that Tom measured a voltage
                    > > on
                    > > > > a small low side resistor. The voltage produced by such
                    > > measurement
                    > > > > can have short spikes as presented in Fig 6D because of capacitive
                    > > > > coupling from adjacent circuitry and even from the ground ripple
                    > > > > itself.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Kent Andersen
                    Wow Paul! Very good research! I am very impressed with what you have presented here. I might add that that one way to get them to dynamically change resonance
                    Message 9 of 11 , Apr 29, 2007
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                      Wow Paul!

                      Very good research! I am very impressed with what you have presented here.
                      I might add that that one way to get them to dynamically change
                      resonance is to
                      PL or phase lock it, the input frequency would have to be determined by
                      the output frequency.
                      whereas you would tap a certain amount of power from the output coil to
                      directly drive the input coil
                      it should find its resonance and "lock" in on maximum output. of course
                      there are some factors that
                      must be addressed and that would have to be a circuit that would
                      automatically adjust phase delay for
                      the hysterisys curve of not only the metglass core but the permanant
                      magnet field that is in the core.
                      these numbers would obviously vary from each meg. This is about the
                      only method I can see to
                      make it so that the temperature problems could be compensated.


                      softwarelabus wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi,
                      >
                      > At this very moment you can purchase the Metglas AMCC 320 cores for
                      > $110 from http://elnamagnetics.com <http://elnamagnetics.com>
                      >
                      > There's some very important information MEG researchers should know
                      > about. I spoke with the engineer at Metglas and he said it's difficult
                      > to couple the two U-shaped cut cores together tight enough to achieve
                      > the materials exceptionally high permeability and coercivity. In fact,
                      > the Metglas engineer said his test, which consisted of taping two
                      > pressed cores together, resulted in a completely flat BH-curve with
                      > relatively low permeability. I'm not certain how much pressure one
                      > needs to apply on the core halves, but one should be very cautious as
                      > such nanocrystalline and amorphous material is brittle. My suggestion
                      > is to rub the two cores together thereby creating some micro powder to
                      > fill in any gaps, and then press the two cores together. To verify the
                      > two cores are correctly coupled you could apply two static AC signals.
                      > One signal would be strong low frequency, no higher than 1 Hz. The
                      > other will be a weak higher frequency signal of a few KHz's. It's
                      > important the KHz signals peak to peak current remain relatively
                      > constant. To achieve this you could place a high resistance resistor
                      > in series with the KHz signal so it's peak to peak current does not
                      > change much as the 1 Hz signal changes. The 1 Hz signal peak must be
                      > high enough to saturate the core. Next, view the induced voltage on a
                      > secondary coil. If the two cores are correctly coupled then the KHz
                      > signal should mostly be low in amplitude along with a blip high in
                      > amplitude. On the other hand, an improperly coupled core should
                      > result in a flat KHz signal with no blip.
                      >
                      > Also you'll want to store such cores stored in a desiccator-- low
                      > humidity environment. Believe it or not, cheap cat litter that
                      > contains silica gel works great. You'll want to microwave the cat
                      > litter to expel the absorbed moisture. Once it cools then place it in
                      > a seal tight bag or container along with the nanocrystalline core.
                      > This will prevent the core from oxidizing.
                      >
                      > I learned some very concerning information from the Metglas engineer.
                      > The AMCC cores are not longitudinally annealed, but no-field annealed.
                      > I don't know if they were ever longitudinally annealed, but this was a
                      > shocker since my computer simulations (based on conventional physics)
                      > shows the "free energy" comes from a coil robbing Magnetic entropy
                      > away from Lattice entropy, which occurs when the core goes to
                      > saturation. Present simulations indicate longitudinally annealed cores
                      > have appreciable magnetic entropy, and non-annealed cores have
                      > significantly less magnetic entropy, and transversely annealed cores
                      > have negative entropy when such material is saturated. Actually
                      > simulations show transversely annealed cores behave erratically
                      > depending on various situations. Note that two U-shaped cores not
                      > properly coupled perform just like a transversely annealed core. This
                      > gap effect is seen in simulations due to the micro gaps between the
                      > cut core.
                      >
                      > In a nutshell, it's very important to verify your cut AMCC core is
                      > properly coupled and exhibits the materials natural exceptionally high
                      > permeability and coercivity. According to simulations the high
                      > coercivity is very important in achieving magnetic entropy.
                      >
                      > Here's an outline of what the simulation software reveals. With no
                      > applied field the magnetic dipole moments on such material on average
                      > are appreciably unaligned because the longitudinally annealing
                      > discourages domain structure-- lower order, higher magnetic entropy.
                      > When the core is saturated the magnetic moments are aligned-- high
                      > order, low magnetic entropy. Normally when magnetic entropy decreases
                      > there's an increase in lattice entropy. Meaning, magnetic entropy is
                      > converted to heat. This is a well-understood process known as MCE
                      > (Magnetocaloric effect). MCE is difficult to notice in typical
                      > magnetic materials at room temp because the domains are mostly
                      > saturated with no applied field; i.e., low magnetic entropy. When the
                      > material is above Curie temp the magnetic moments are in disorder, the
                      > domains are destroyed; i.e., high magnetic entropy. The problem is
                      > such materials have hardly any permeability above Curie. Although,
                      > Superparamagnetic materials have high magnetic entropy well below
                      > Curie. According to simulations, such material with exceptionally
                      > high permeability require extraordinarily small amount of energy from
                      > the coil used as a catalyst to convert magnetic entropy to lattice
                      > entropy (heat). Last year I witnessed MCE in a Metglas transversely
                      > annealed core, but at the time I couldn't figure out why the effect
                      > was so erratic, and even reverse some times. Actually I asked Metglas
                      > for a longitudinally annealed core, but oddly enough they sent me the
                      > worst type of core for "free energy," a transversely annealed core.
                      > Recently, after discovering this, I bought some Metglas MAGAMP cores,
                      > which are uncut longitudinally annealed 2714A core material. I'm still
                      > in the process of measuring MCE at room temperature in such cores, but
                      > so far it appears they definitely exhibit appreciable MCE at room
                      > temperature. :-)
                      >
                      > How to capture such magnetic entropy away from lattice entropy is
                      > another story. What occurs is electrons flip, which generates a pulse,
                      > emits photons. The flip rate depends on the type of atoms, lattice,
                      > and material electrical resistance. Such Metglas cores have low
                      > electrical resistance, which can significantly slow down the flip rate
                      > due to eddy currents. Note that 18 micro tape wound cores reduce macro
                      > eddy currents, but not nano scale eddy currents around the atomic
                      > flip. Ideally the coil would collect a percentage of the pulse,
                      > magnetic entropy. So now the core is saturated-- align magnetic
                      > moments, low magnetic entropy. According to standard physics it
                      > requires energy to break such magnetic alignments. Temperature
                      > (vibrating atoms) breaks such magnetic bonds, which is why such
                      > magnetic materials cool down when the applied field is removed-- the
                      > later half of MCE. Therefore, the coil captures energy that is
                      > normally converted to lattice entropy. When the field is removed the
                      > material cools slightly more than it stated.
                      >
                      > The end results are a device that moves ambient energy at the output,
                      > which cools the core. Recent simulations are showing the core domain
                      > structure can abruptly change when this occurs. If true, then it would
                      > require a machine that adapts and re-tunes itself continuously and
                      > dynamically. That could explain why Naudin had trouble closing the
                      > loop. There seems to be controversy what Naudin failed. All I know is
                      > that a person who lives in France, was in direct contact with Naudin,
                      > and claimed that Naudin did indeed closed the loop, but the MEG would
                      > run for a very brief time. He said Naudin could not figure it out. If
                      > Naudin was capturing ambient energy from the core, then it's my
                      > opinion that such a device is finely tuned and highly balanced, and a
                      > slight change in core temperature would cause significant domain
                      > structure. I think the Metglas MEG is legitimate, but someone needs to
                      > spend the time to figure out how to make the circuit adapt to the
                      > cores changes and/or somehow keep the inner core at a stable temperature.
                      >
                      > My final comment on the MEG is that presently I see no way of capture
                      > such Magnetic entropy from ferrite cores. In a nutshell, such ferrite
                      > cores are made of powdered iron. A bonding material separates the iron
                      > particles. Therefore, with no applied field, each iron particle will
                      > be appreciably saturated due to strong domains. Furthermore, a
                      > saturated core would actually have *less* B-field magnetic entropy due
                      > to the iron particle separations as caused by the bonding material.
                      > Perhaps an intensely longitudinally annealed ferrite core could work.
                      > Regardless, it's difficult to beat nanocrystalline and amorphous cores
                      > that have permeability over 500000, especially if they are
                      > longitudinally annealed! :-)
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      > Paul Lowrance
                      >
                      > --- In MEG_builders@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:MEG_builders%40yahoogroups.com>, Kent Andersen <sci@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > well I think you could use a smaller secondary coil on it. Most of these
                      > > guys go for big voltage
                      > > because they get the idea that big voltage = big power.
                      > > you might try youtube.com they sometimes have these videos pirated
                      > there.
                      > > Bearden is selling the video on his website here.
                      > > http://www.cheniere.org/sales/buy-e1.htm
                      > <http://www.cheniere.org/sales/buy-e1.htm>
                      > >
                      > > he has completely moved away from his theories of phase conjugation
                      > > (junk science stuff)
                      > > to more practical theories that everyone else in the scientific
                      > > community is using.
                      > > I would surely check out that video if you can before you go out
                      > > spending big wads of cash
                      > > do your research as it is known that the patents do not contain all of
                      > > the information required
                      > > to reproduce what it is claimed to do.
                      > > some other data you might want to look at is here if you have not
                      > already
                      > > http://jnaudin.free.fr/meg/meg.htm <http://jnaudin.free.fr/meg/meg.htm>
                      > >
                      > > I recently purchased 2 of the metglass C cores AMCC500 which I am going
                      > > to use in some experiments
                      > > with ferro magnetic resonance. they were 179.00 per pair.. so if you
                      > > decide to build a meg prepare
                      > > to go for a ride.
                      > >
                      > > Hope that helps
                      > >
                      > > Kent
                      > >
                      > > lichtrov wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Thank you for the response. I'm thinking about load matching also.
                      > > >
                      > > > Where the video, you're talking about, can be downloaded from?
                      > > >
                      > > > And one more question: does anybody have an idea why such a huge
                      > > > secondary voltage is required (TB in the patent claims that it can be
                      > > > lowered with smaller secondary windings, but I didn't see anything
                      > > > done with low secondary voltage)?
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In MEG_builders@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:MEG_builders%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > <mailto:MEG_builders%40yahoogroups.com>, Kent Andersen <sci@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Sounds like you have done quite a bit of homework. This seems to be
                      > > > a
                      > > > > typical result from MEG builders
                      > > > > In a video that I watched where bearden goes into detail on the
                      > > > MEG's
                      > > > > operation it is more of a L/C
                      > > > > type of circuit. from what he said in that video the input waveform
                      > > > is
                      > > > > like /`\ ramp up and ramp down.
                      > > > > as you can tell there are some sweet spots between pulse width and
                      > > > > frequency of the drive signal.
                      > > > > since its a L/C circuit you must design a load match transformer
                      > > > that
                      > > > > will allow you to pull power out of it.
                      > > > > simply putting a resistive load across the output will detune the
                      > > > > circuit and throw it out of its "balance"
                      > > > > I have not done this myself yet as I have been short on time but
                      > > > that is
                      > > > > my next step to design a, more or
                      > > > > less a balun or unun to decouple the meg from the effects of the
                      > > > load.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > (Kent)
                      > > > >
                      > > > > lichtrov wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Hi all!
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I'm an EE and was intriqued by MEG because of simple circuitry
                      > > > > > required to operate. I've built my own replication of the MEG -
                      > > > also
                      > > > > > unsuccessfully (I mean I didn't obtain COP > 1). In my controller
                      > > > I
                      > > > > > can independently change both frequency and duty cycle of the gate
                      > > > > > driving voltage. My MEG has taps on both primary and secondary
                      > > > > > windings and I can play with turns ratio. While working without
                      > > > load,
                      > > > > > I obtained output voltage with close to sine waveform and
                      > > > amplitudes
                      > > > > > around reported by Bearden and Naudin. However, after loading the
                      > > > > > output (even lightly with 100kOhm resistor), output voltage
                      > > > decreases
                      > > > > > significantly to a few volts.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > It's pretty hard to debug the device since I don't understand how
                      > > > it
                      > > > > > should work. I started to dig into Berden's patent and I have a
                      > > > > > question: does anybody have an idea how Bearden measured the
                      > > > current
                      > > > > > in both primary (Fig 6D) and secondary (Figs 6G,H)?
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > The question arised because the primary current he described has
                      > > > > > extremely small duty cycle - around 1 microsecond for both rise
                      > > > and
                      > > > > > fall. It supposes duty cycle with around 500 nanoseconds of active
                      > > > > > driving voltage - nothing comparable can be seen in Figs 6A,B.
                      > > > Also I
                      > > > > > tried to build high side current measurement circuit and (even
                      > > > with
                      > > > > > most recent chips!) it has around 500kHz bandwidth and cannot
                      > > > provide
                      > > > > > such a sharp waveform. Thus I presume that Tom measured a voltage
                      > > > on
                      > > > > > a small low side resistor. The voltage produced by such
                      > > > measurement
                      > > > > > can have short spikes as presented in Fig 6D because of capacitive
                      > > > > > coupling from adjacent circuitry and even from the ground ripple
                      > > > > > itself.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                    • Norm Fletcher
                      Hi I wanted to give you some of the results of my MEG replication and the current state of my ongoing investigation. Some initial notes: 1. The MEG should not
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 20, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi
                        I wanted to give you some of the results of my MEG replication and the current state of
                        my ongoing investigation.
                        Some initial notes:
                        1. The MEG should not be viewed as a transformer. Doing so will just confuse what the
                        system is designed to accomplish.
                        2. The usual output of a transformer with a magnet placed as it is in the MEG is that
                        of a biased transformer. Most likely, your output waves were not symetrically sinusoidal
                        but skewed to either the leading edge or the trailing edge of the sine curve. This skewing
                        is due to the magnet's flux direction. This apparently happens at most frequencies except
                        for a few near the resonant frequency or harmonics thereof.
                        If you change the load, as you observed, the resonant frequency changes. Then the MEG
                        becomes inefficient with a common underunity output. Dr. Bearden describes the MEG as
                        "Highly non-linear" and one can surmise why with all the variables changing by the
                        nanosecond.
                        3. I prefer to think of the MEG core as a dual flux pathway for the magnet with the
                        control coils acting as flux switches. The unfortunate result of the MEG as described in the
                        patent is that the flux from the input coils does not remain locally and change the
                        permeability of the core in that small area of the core near the input coils. Instead, the B
                        field traverses the entire circuit of the core and mixes with the magnet's flux. And, just to
                        recap, the resonant frequency depends on load variance, winding quality, circuit Q,
                        strength of the magnet, permeability of the core, slew rate of the core and God knows
                        what else.
                        We believe we have stumbled upon an answer to this problem and sometime in late June
                        or July we will be testing a MEG core with radically new input architecture.
                        As soon as this metalurgic process has a provisional patent status, I will publish the "how
                        to" to this group. We hope new MEG consturction will produce a linear device capable of
                        determining output based on the usual formulaic components: frequency, core area, core
                        permeability, amount of dynamic flux and number of windings.

                        Wish us luck!

                        Norm
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