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Re: Flux question, please help.

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  • YoTango
    ... Hi, You cannot think in terms of magnetic lines when dealing with EMF. It very easy to demonstrate that an area in space that contains no magnetic field
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 17 9:33 PM
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      --- In MEG_builders@yahoogroups.com, "sanderpupae" <s.sinttruye@w...>
      wrote:
      > Hello my name is Steven (new to this list and MEG'ing)
      >
      > I have a question about flux transfer through the MEG.
      > First of all, I did some flux simulations with Femm. I was
      > experimenting with different MEG designs like the MEGII as on
      > http://starglider.netfirms.com/ But here is the thing I don't
      > understand about flux traveling trough steel: What we do in case of
      > the meg is switching the (most of it) magnetic flux through the
      > metal in a "closed loop" from magnet north> through metal> to south.
      > Well Femm simulation show a strong magnetic field through the steel.
      > Well, I created that test setup. BUT when you hold a pieces of steel
      > next to the meg-arm with the whole flux going trough, it is not
      > attracted to it at all (well, maybe just a little) So the flux of
      > the magnet is completely "IN" the steel of the MEG. So how can that
      > be efficient for generating power when the magnetic field does
      > not 'radiate' outside the steel for us to capture with a coil..?
      >
      > Hope anyone can give me some insight on this.
      > Thanks!

      Hi,

      You cannot think in terms of magnetic lines when dealing with EMF. It
      very easy to demonstrate that an area in space that contains no
      magnetic field or lines can contain EMF. The reason is because EMF
      not only depends upon the magnetic field polarity but also the
      direction the field is traversing. For example, you could have a
      magnetic field (down polarity) traversing right and another magnetic
      field (up polarity) traversing left and you get EMF but no magnetic
      field. That is, the magnetic fields cancel out but they are still
      there. Even though the magnetic fields are canceled out they are
      still traversing in opposite directions so the EM forces sum up.

      You could have a perfect uniform field in a perfect toroid, and FEMM
      will tell you that there is ZERO magnetic field outside the toroid,
      but in reality there would be strong EMF.

      FEMM is good for getting a rough idea on ONLY magnetic fields, not
      EMF, and assuming you are not saturating any magnetic materials.

      YT
    • Norm Fletcher
      ... The model of the Aharanov-Bohm effect for magnetics goes something like this: If you have an infinitely long inductor with varying flux inside and no
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 26 12:16 AM
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        > be efficient for generating power when the magnetic field does
        > not 'radiate' outside the steel for us to capture with a coil..?

        The model of the Aharanov-Bohm effect for magnetics goes something like this: If you have
        an infinitely long inductor with varying flux inside and no external flux, a coil wrapped
        around that core will transfer power out of the core. This is without external (in air) flux.

        Try to think of the MEG not as a transformer but as a dual pathway for flux with switches to
        stop or decrease the magnet's flux on each leg. When we make these switches so they
        produce no external flux but do switch the internal flux pathways, we have a working MEG.
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