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Experiments notes and considerations about power. Which one must we use?

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  • Di Scala
    Hello everybody I have continued my tests over the MEG and I have not yet succeeded in a COP greater than 1, it is less than 1, very less than 1. My las t
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 28 1:18 PM
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      Hello everybody

      I have continued my tests over the MEG and I have not yet succeeded in a
      COP greater than 1, it is less than 1, very less than 1. My las t
      experiments have showed no overunity with frequency range from 17kHz to
      50kHz with a MOV (see my last email), so I have tried with a Neon tube
      in this frequency range, and I tried again with MOV at 2,7kHz (because
      it was my best output power result last time, and I am now able to
      measure simultaneously input signals too)
      The MEG radiates powerfull electromagnetic waves, which I can't measure
      because I have no device to do so, but I feel these radiations in my
      body (on face, arms, etc) because it's very powerfull. This is, in my
      sense, the way the missing Output power goes out (because a lot of power
      is missing from expected at output!)

      I have used 2 oscilloscopes to measure simultaneously input and output
      (on one input coil, and one output coil). My experiments lead me to ask
      wether to compute power and which one using to compute COP. In effect, I
      read electronic litterature, and we have 3 power types:

      P apparent power = Power calculated withe the product U(t) and I(t) [
      see http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci213719,00.html%5d
      P active power (or real power) = Power dissipated in Joule effect in a
      resistor (Watts) [ see
      http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci213720,00.html%5d
      P reactive power = Power alternately stored and released by inductors
      and/or capacitors [ see
      http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci213721,00.html%5d

      I consider the Output Coil as a power source and my dipole power
      consumer is Neon+Resistor or MOV+Resistor
      In my numeric computations, I compute:

      P = (1/T) * Integral of (V(t)*I(t)*dt, from 0 to T) apparent average power
      P = (1/T) * Integral of (R * I(t)², from 0 to T) = average active power
      throw resistor R (the problem is that this value can't be computed
      because I don't know and can't measure MOV resistor value or Neon
      resistor value, because it changes with the applied voltage)

      And what can I do with apparent power? Sometimes it goes negative, what
      does it mean? I have not changed the way I measure currents, so why a
      negative powe sometimes? What is the link with the powerfull radiated
      electromagnétic waves? All this leads me to a more profond questionning
      about power, its meaning and the way we compute power. What do you
      consider as a correct power for COP computations? If you can help me
      with your advices, i would be very happy.

      Thank you in advance for you comments.
      Mr Naudin, if you read this email, please help me: how do you manage
      measuring sinusoidal phased signals? (with Neon tube experiment, you
      have had this and not me). I really try to obtain something with my MEG,
      but each time it doesn't work.

      (en français: Mr Naudin, pourriez-vous s'il vous plaît aider un
      constructeur de MEG qui essaie tant bien que mal de suivre vos traces et
      souffre de ne pas être capable de reproduire un tant soit peu vos
      résultats concernant les signaux sinusoïdaux en phase dans l'expérience
      du tube au Néon (ou des varistances d'ailleurs) avec le MEG 3.1).

      Sincerely,

      Pascal DI SCALA

      ------------- Experiment Resume ----------------
      Experiment number 1: operating frequency about 18Khz
      I have experienced with Neon tube 4W+Resistor 12ohms on each Output
      coil, instead of MOV or conditionned resistor (I have not built such a
      device resistor) because I wanted to reproduce Naudin's experiment:
      http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/meg32io.jpg

      It's disappointing, because I have not at all the same signals than
      Naudin (and the cause is not the conditionned resistor this time; I have
      the same 3.1 MEG than Naudin's one, except for magnets). The operating
      frequency is in the rspacified Naudin's range. But my COP is very poor
      (problem with power computations used to compute the COP??)

      attached files related to this experiment:
      20040328_exp1_schema.jpg
      20040328_exp1_oscilloOUTPUTuncalibrated.jpg
      20040328_exp1_oscilloOUTPUTpower.jpg
      20040328_exp1_oscilloINPUTuncalibrated.jpg
      20040328_exp1_oscilloINPUTpower.jpg

      ------

      Experiment number 2: operating frequency about 2,7 KHz
      I have experienced with a MOV 840V(two MOV 420 serialized in
      fact)+Resistor 12 ohms on each Output coil. I have tuned operating
      frequency to maximise input current consumption by the MEG driver in the
      2kHz to 5,5kHz range.
      Disappointing too. COP very little.

      attached files related to this experiment:
      20040328_exp2_schema.jpg
      20040328_exp2_oscilloOUTPUTuncalibrated.jpg
      20040328_exp2_oscilloOUTPUTpower.jpg
      20040328_exp2_oscilloINPUTcalibrated.jpg
      20040328_exp2_oscilloINPUTpower.jpg

      ------

      I have also tried to link together output coils, and when doing so, I
      managed to obtain approximate sinusoidal waves for output voltage (but
      not for output current) at all frequencies, and for special
      frequencies, approximate sinusoidal waves for output current and
      voltage, with MOV loads. But it is not in ohase at all, dephasage is 60°
      to 80°

      You can see oscillo shots with voltage and current for these special
      signals:
      http://www.lesensdenosvies.org/topics/ver/20040327_OUTPUTcoil_01.jpg
      http://www.lesensdenosvies.org/topics/ver/20040327_OUTPUTcoil_02.jpg

      If I link output coils reversing one coil the output volatage is not
      sinusoidal:
      http://www.lesensdenosvies.org/topics/ver/20040327_OUTPUTcoil_01.jpg

      ------------- Experiments Notes----------------

      ---------------------
      EXPERIMENT 1
      ----------------------
      LINleft=50mH LINright=48mH
      LOUTleft=11,90H LOUTright=11,94H

      CequivRIGHTload<1pF
      CequivRIGHTload<1pF

      Neon tube: 4Watts fluorescent tube (F4T5/D)
      Resistor=12ohms (10Watt, ceramic, non inductive)
      (same resistor for INPUT and OUTPUT measurements)

      MEG driver consumption:
      V no load=29,1V
      I no load=45,4mA
      (P no load= 1,32 Watts)

      V load =33,7V
      I load =0,06A (large imprecision due to multimeter 200mA fuse crash, I
      have used another calibration, 10A)
      (P load= 2 Watts, bettween 2 and 3 Watts I presume)

      Operating frequency = approximately 18Khz

      INPUT oscilloscope:
      calibrated experience:
      chA=1V/div
      chB=5V/div (probe 1:10)
      T=5 micro sec

      uncalibrated experience:(56 pix / div)
      chA=1V/div [1,4880952 mA / pix]
      chB=10V/div (probe 1:10) [1,785714 V / pix]
      T=5 micro sec uncalibrated ratio 56/53 [0,0943396 micro sec / pix]
      P apparent power (equal to true power given par MEG driver oscillator?)
      = 1,05Watts (x 2 = 2,1 Watts)
      P active power throw resistor = 89 milli Watts


      OUTPUT oscilloscope: (56 pix / div)
      chA=0,05V/div [0,07440476 mA / pix]
      chB=10V/div (probe 1:10) [1,78571429 V / pix]
      T=5 micro sec uncalibrated ratio 56/50 [0,1 micro sec / pix]
      P apparent power (equal to true power given par MEG driver oscillator?)
      = 0,7Watts (x 2 = 1,4 Watts)
      P active power throw resistor = 0,17 milli Watts

      COP = 0,67 ???
      which power do I compute?
      (P OUTPUT apparent power / P INPUT apparent power = 0,67)
      (P OUTPUT real power watt on resistor / P INPUT active power throw
      resistor = 0,00019)

      ---------------------
      EXPERIMENT 2
      ----------------------
      LINleft=50mH LINright=48mH
      LOUTleft=11,90H LOUTright=11,94H

      CequivRIGHTload=188pF
      CequivRIGHTload=187pF

      MOV1=MOV2=420V (DNR14D431K)
      Resistor=12ohms (10Watt, ceramic, non inductive)
      (same resistor for INPUT and OUTPUT measurements)

      MEG driver consumption:

      V no load=29,1V
      I no load=45,4mA
      (P no load= 1,32 Watts)

      V load=28,8V
      I load=0,13A (large imprecision due to multimeter 200mA fuse crash, I
      have used another calibration, 10A)
      (P=3,8 Watts, beetween 3,5 and 4 Watts I presume)

      INPUT oscilloscope: (on picture: 55pix/div)
      chA=1V/div [1,5151515 mA / pix]
      chB=1V/div (probe 1:10) [0,18181818 V / pix]
      T=50 micro sec [0,90909091 micro sec / pix]
      P apparent power (equal to true power given par MEG driver oscillator?)
      = 1,32Watts (x 2 = 2,64 Watts)
      P active power throw resistor = 222 milli Watts

      OUTPUT oscilloscope:
      calibrated measurements:
      chA=0,1V/div
      chB=20V/div (probe 1:10)
      T=50 micro sec

      uncalibrated measurements: (on picture: 55pix/div)
      chA=0,1V/div [0,151515 mA / pix]
      chB=20V/div (probe 1:10) ratio 1/0,71 --> 28,17V/div (1:10) [5,121639 V
      / pix]
      T=50 micro sec [0,90909091 micro sec / pix]
      P apparent power = -0,32 Watts ( x 2 = 0,64 Watts) What's the meaning of
      this minus sign?
      P real power watt on resistor (usable) = 0,000995Watts (x 2 = 1 milli Watts)

      COP = 0,48 ???
      which power do I compute?
      (P OUTPUT apparent power / P INPUT apparent power = 0,48)
      (P OUTPUT real power watt on resistor / P INPUT active power throw
      resistor = 0,0045)
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