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quick question

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  • mistycracraft
    Hi, I just joined this list this morning and have not yet had time to spend looking through all of the rules, FAQ s and such, which I will do later, I promise.
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 17, 2006
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      Hi,

      I just joined this list this morning and have not yet had time to
      spend looking through all of the rules, FAQ's and such, which I will
      do later, I promise. In the meantime, I have one quick, but very
      important question. What is the policy on stories with song lyrics?
      Are songfics allowed as long as the lyrics are attributed to the
      correct source? Are they confined to 10% of the lyrics or are they
      banned altogether? This will have a major impact on which stories I
      nominate, so I would appreciate any advice anyone can give me on this
      topic.

      Thanks,
      Misty
    • elliska67
      Hi, Marta will correct me if I am wrong, but I do not recall anything in the rules regarding how song lyrics affect the eligibility of nominated stories,
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 17, 2006
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        Hi,

        Marta will correct me if I am wrong, but I do not recall anything in
        the rules regarding how song lyrics affect the eligibility of
        nominated stories, unless the fiction is so dependent on the song that
        it would violate the plagarism rule, which states:

        10. Pieces found to be plagiarized will be withdrawn from the awards.

        10-a. For the purpose of the MEFAs plagiarism is defined as "the
        deliberate attempt to deceive the reader through the appropriation and
        representation as one's own the work and words of others."*

        10-b. All co-authors should be listed in the story information at the
        MEFA voting website. Failure to do this will be considered plagiarism
        (provided the omission is intentional), even if the co-authors are
        given credit at the page where the piece is archived.

        10-b-i. For fiction, a co-author is defined as someone who wrote a
        significant portion of the piece in question.

        10-b-ii. For non-fiction, a co-author is defined as someone who
        contributed a significant portion of the piece in question, whether
        this contribution is verbal or non-verbal. For example, both someone
        who created a chart that an essay relies upon and someone who wrote a
        section of that essay would be considered a co-author.

        10-b-iii. Authors are encouraged to discuss in advance with their beta
        readers and anyone else who contributed to the piece whether they
        consider themselves to be co-authors.

        10-c. Plagiarism must be intentional.

        10-c-i. If an author did know or should have known that another person
        was a co-author, and did not list this person as such at the MEFA
        website, the story will be withdrawn from the awards.

        10-c-ii. If an author does not list a co-author as such at the MEFA
        website but the MEFA administrators conclude that this was a mistake
        rather than a deliberate deception, the site will be edited to list
        all authors as co-authors, but this will not be treated as plagiarism.
        The piece will remain in the competition.

        10-d. Any decisions made by the MEFA administrators will not affect
        third parties such as web sites where the site is hosted. People
        claiming to be co-authors should take this matter up directly with
        these websites.

        I hope this helps. :-)


        --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "mistycracraft" <mistycracraft@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > I just joined this list this morning and have not yet had time to
        > spend looking through all of the rules, FAQ's and such, which I will
        > do later, I promise. In the meantime, I have one quick, but very
        > important question. What is the policy on stories with song lyrics?
        > Are songfics allowed as long as the lyrics are attributed to the
        > correct source? Are they confined to 10% of the lyrics or are they
        > banned altogether? This will have a major impact on which stories I
        > nominate, so I would appreciate any advice anyone can give me on this
        > topic.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Misty
        >
      • Marta Layton
        ... Hi Misty, To my knowledge this hasn t come up before. I have no problem with songfics competing, so long as the source is attributed. I freely admit to not
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 17, 2006
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          On 17/4/06 11:14 am, "mistycracraft" <mistycracraft@...> wrote:

          > Hi,
          >
          > I just joined this list this morning and have not yet had time to
          > spend looking through all of the rules, FAQ's and such, which I will
          > do later, I promise. In the meantime, I have one quick, but very
          > important question. What is the policy on stories with song lyrics?
          > Are songfics allowed as long as the lyrics are attributed to the
          > correct source? Are they confined to 10% of the lyrics or are they
          > banned altogether? This will have a major impact on which stories I
          > nominate, so I would appreciate any advice anyone can give me on this
          > topic.
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Misty
          >

          Hi Misty,

          To my knowledge this hasn't come up before. I have no problem with songfics
          competing, so long as the source is attributed. I freely admit to not being
          an expert on copyright infringement and may change my mind if someone
          replies witgh more knowledge of this than I have - but my feeling is that
          this is no more a copyright infringement than allowing movie images to be
          used in banners.

          Marta
        • Marta Layton
          ... Thanks, elliska. You re right, this isn t an issue that s come up before. If a songfic has been nominated, no one has asked specifically for
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 17, 2006
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            On 17/4/06 2:32 pm, "elliska67" <elliska67@...> wrote:

            > Hi,
            >
            > Marta will correct me if I am wrong, but I do not recall anything in
            > the rules regarding how song lyrics affect the eligibility of
            > nominated stories, unless the fiction is so dependent on the song that
            > it would violate the plagarism rule, which states:
            >
            > 10. Pieces found to be plagiarized will be withdrawn from the awards.
            >
            > 10-a. For the purpose of the MEFAs plagiarism is defined as "the
            > deliberate attempt to deceive the reader through the appropriation and
            > representation as one's own the work and words of others."*
            >

            <snippage>

            Thanks, elliska. You're right, this isn't an issue that's come up before. If
            a songfic has been nominated, no one has asked specifically for permission
            and I haven't noticed it.

            Looking at the definition, the crucial part seems to be "to deceive the
            reader through the appropriation [...] as one's own the work and words of
            others." Songfic takes words that are identifiably the words of others and
            does not deny that they came from another's song, right? So there is no
            intention to deceive someone into thinking the author is writing original
            poetry. And a reasonable person wouldn't be deceived, especially if they
            read all the way to the footnote where the original songwriter is credited.

            If we want to be really careful about plagiarism, I suppose we could add a
            line like "Based on both the works of JRRT and the song "[title]" by [group
            name]." or something like that.

            Marta
          • mistycracraft
            Thanks, this helps. I enjoy writing songfics, but I always make an effort to attribute the song to the proper people in the disclaimers so that everyone knows
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 18, 2006
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              Thanks, this helps. I enjoy writing songfics, but I always make an
              effort to attribute the song to the proper people in the disclaimers
              so that everyone knows they aren't mine.

              Thanks for the quick replies.

              Misty

              --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@...> wrote:
              >
              > On 17/4/06 2:32 pm, "elliska67" <elliska67@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Hi,
              > >
              > > Marta will correct me if I am wrong, but I do not recall anything in
              > > the rules regarding how song lyrics affect the eligibility of
              > > nominated stories, unless the fiction is so dependent on the song that
              > > it would violate the plagarism rule, which states:
              > >
              > > 10. Pieces found to be plagiarized will be withdrawn from the awards.
              > >
              > > 10-a. For the purpose of the MEFAs plagiarism is defined as "the
              > > deliberate attempt to deceive the reader through the appropriation and
              > > representation as one's own the work and words of others."*
              > >
              >
              > <snippage>
              >
              > Thanks, elliska. You're right, this isn't an issue that's come up
              before. If
              > a songfic has been nominated, no one has asked specifically for
              permission
              > and I haven't noticed it.
              >
              > Looking at the definition, the crucial part seems to be "to deceive the
              > reader through the appropriation [...] as one's own the work and
              words of
              > others." Songfic takes words that are identifiably the words of
              others and
              > does not deny that they came from another's song, right? So there is no
              > intention to deceive someone into thinking the author is writing
              original
              > poetry. And a reasonable person wouldn't be deceived, especially if they
              > read all the way to the footnote where the original songwriter is
              credited.
              >
              > If we want to be really careful about plagiarism, I suppose we could
              add a
              > line like "Based on both the works of JRRT and the song "[title]" by
              [group
              > name]." or something like that.
              >
              > Marta
              >
            • Naresha
              ... song [title] by [group name]. or something like that. I ve written a few songfics and fics based on quotes or lyrics. What I do is put a Notations
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 19, 2006
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                > If we want to be really careful about
                > plagiarism, I suppose we could add a line
                > like "Based on both the works of JRRT and the >
                song "[title]" by [group name]." or something >
                like that.


                I've written a few songfics and fics based on
                quotes or lyrics. What I do is put a Notations
                field in all my headers - just like a Warnings
                field, except there I put all credits to anyone
                who has helped me or who I have taken lyrics from
                etc. Would that sort of thing do the trick?

                Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
              • Marta Layton
                ... As far as the MEFAs are concerned, I don t want to deal with what an author does or doesn t do at the page where the story is hosted. Our rules really only
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 19, 2006
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                  On 19/4/06 9:33 am, "Naresha" <north_shore_fruitcake@...> wrote:

                  >> If we want to be really careful about
                  >> plagiarism, I suppose we could add a line
                  >> like "Based on both the works of JRRT and the >
                  > song "[title]" by [group name]." or something >
                  > like that.
                  >
                  >
                  > I've written a few songfics and fics based on
                  > quotes or lyrics. What I do is put a Notations
                  > field in all my headers - just like a Warnings
                  > field, except there I put all credits to anyone
                  > who has helped me or who I have taken lyrics from
                  > etc. Would that sort of thing do the trick?
                  >

                  As far as the MEFAs are concerned, I don't want to deal with what an author
                  does or doesn't do at the page where the story is hosted. Our rules really
                  only deal with the information at our website. So I'd definitely encourage
                  people to add a line to the headers if that's possible where their piece is
                  archived - but for our purposes, it's kind of beside the point.

                  As far as adding a credits field, that might be a good idea - but I don't
                  want to do it for this year because we're too close to the start of the
                  awards. For this year I think we're best incorporating this information into
                  the story summary, where necessary.

                  Marta
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