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Post Mortem and postponed surprise

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  • Ainaechoiriel
    Well, we aren t going to be able to make a Dec. 1st date. How about two more weeks? Erase that one penciled date and pencil it in on Dec. 15th. Just hang
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 30, 2004
      Well, we aren't going to be able to make a Dec. 1st date. How about two
      more weeks? Erase that one penciled date and pencil it in on Dec. 15th.
      Just hang around and we'll let you know when for sure.

      And the post mortem...Thank you, everyone, for giving me a few days off. I
      can't remember if I ever got the point total database copied over. I'll
      check on it tomorrow and if I haven't got it done, I'll do it tomorrow.

      Let's try and keep the post mortem organized somewhat. I am very vulnerable
      to stress and want to keep that to a minimum, especially with the holidays
      coming up. So, in that vein, no more than 3 topics at a time, if we can
      manage it. (And if I should forget one topic in discussion of another,
      don't take it personally. Forgetfulness comes along with the stress
      vulnerability. Hey, I forgot two weddings!)

      So, here's a topic: Author comments. They're not as easy to write as story
      comments, especially when there are multiple nominations for teh same
      author. Now, if we continue to include author comments, I wouldn't want to
      limit them because how one writes humor is different from how one writes
      drama, etc.

      So, any suggestions? Should we take them out? Should we leave them in?
      What should we do?


      --Ainaechoiriel
      MEFA Admin and Founder

      "This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
      it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

      <http://home.earthlink.net/~ainae/mefa> http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The
      Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
      Blog: <http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com/>
      http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Marta
      ... as story ... same ... want to ... writes ... in? ... I agree, authors comments are a problem. I think I wrote over a hundred story reviews but certainly
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 1, 2004
        > So, here's a topic: Author comments. They're not as easy to write
        as story
        > comments, especially when there are multiple nominations for teh
        same
        > author. Now, if we continue to include author comments, I wouldn't
        want to
        > limit them because how one writes humor is different from how one
        writes
        > drama, etc.
        >
        > So, any suggestions? Should we take them out? Should we leave them
        in?
        > What should we do?
        >

        I agree, authors' comments are a problem. I think I wrote over a
        hundred story reviews but certainly less than ten author reviews. It's
        particularly hard in two scenariors: when the ame author had pieces in
        several categories (Zimraphel and Lindelea jump to mind, though I'm
        sure there were others). I could really like such authors but not be
        able to give them as many votes in each category because I would have
        to write twice or however many times as much.

        It's also hard to write where an author just has one entry in a
        category. I know I found myself not sure what to say about an author
        because I had already said it in my story review.

        My suggestion? Create an "authors" category. This way people can write
        however much they want to about an author, and only have to write it
        once. (This also allows them to review more authors if they so choose;
        I think a lot of people were pressed for time at the end.) I would
        have probably reviewed some authors, but was not sure which category
        to review them in and so did not review them in any. :-/ My problem, I
        know, but I think having all the authors together would really help.

        Marta
      • Ainaechoiriel
        ... From: Marta [mailto:MartaL0712@netscape.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 9:40 AM To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: Post Mortem
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 1, 2004
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Marta [mailto:MartaL0712@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 9:40 AM
          To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: Post Mortem and postponed surprise


          >I agree, authors' comments are a problem. I think I wrote over a hundred
          story reviews but certainly less than ten author reviews. It's particularly
          hard in two scenariors: when the ame author had pieces in several categories
          (Zimraphel and Lindelea jump to mind, though I'm sure there were others). I
          could really like such authors but not be able to give them as many votes in
          each category because I would have to write twice or however many times as
          much.

          >It's also hard to write where an author just has one entry in a category. I
          know I found myself not sure what to say about an author because I had
          already said it in my story review.

          Yeah a lot of my author reviews ended up sounding like story reviews,
          especially if they had only one story in that category. They are definitely
          more difficult. Would anyone be interested in me posting a few author
          comments from the ASC Awards to see how they were done successfully for so
          many years?

          >My suggestion? Create an "authors" category. This way people can write
          however much they want to about an author, and only have to write it once.
          (This also allows them to review more authors if they so choose; I think a
          lot of people were pressed for time at the end.) I would have probably
          reviewed some authors, but was not sure which category to review them in and
          so did not review them in any. :-/ My problem, I know, but I think having
          all the authors together would really help.

          While I acknowledge that difficulty, I still have to say No to this one.
          Two reasons: 1) Because as I said before, how one writes drama is different
          than how one writes humor. How do you say a poet is better than a novella
          author? You can't really compare them. And 2) what you propose would come
          down to an Overall Best Author category. That was tried one year with ASC
          and it was thrown out in the post-mortem. It is too elitist and far too
          inaccruate because of reason #1.

          What about allowing copied comments? In other words, I could choose to copy
          the same comment that I gave for Dwim in AuthorDrama for AuthorLOTR. I
          wouldn't necessarily always choose to do that and could tweak it where I
          could (for poetry or drabble or humor, something that is definitely
          distinct), but it wouldn't be required that I tweak it.

          But only for authors, of course, not sor stories.

          --Ainaechoiriel
          MEFA Admin and Founder

          "This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
          it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

          http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
          Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com
        • Marta
          ... for so ... That would be good. Ainae, correct me if I m wrong, but ASC is divided into ENT/TOS/TNG/ DS9/VOY, right? And not subdivided along
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 1, 2004
            <snip>
            >Would anyone be interested in me posting a few author
            > comments from the ASC Awards to see how they were done successfully
            for so
            > many years?
            >

            That would be good.

            Ainae, correct me if I'm wrong, but ASC is divided into ENT/TOS/TNG/
            DS9/VOY, right? And not subdivided along multiple ways (like we have:
            source material, race, genre)? You've spent more time in the Trek
            fandom than I have, but it was my impression that most people tend to
            write within one show. So I imagine the overlap between characters
            isn't quite as great.

            That doesn't fix our problem, but it is something to consider.

            > >My suggestion? Create an "authors" category.
            <snip>
            > While I acknowledge that difficulty, I still have to say No to this
            one.
            > Two reasons: 1) Because as I said before, how one writes drama is
            different
            > than how one writes humor. How do you say a poet is better than a
            novella
            > author? You can't really compare them.

            Fair enough. I write multiple genres and races and everything, but I
            think I write it in basically the same way, the story just molds my
            basic technique into one way or a not. So I could easily review all my
            stories (Drama, Action, and Romance, Men and Hobbits) stories
            together. But that's me. I can see how ot might create problems for
            other authors.

            > And 2) what you propose would come
            > down to an Overall Best Author category. That was tried one year
            with ASC
            > and it was thrown out in the post-mortem. It is too elitist and far
            too
            > inaccruate because of reason #1.
            >

            I can understand that. You're right, this idea wouldn't work very
            well.

            > What about allowing copied comments? In other words, I could choose
            to copy
            > the same comment that I gave for Dwim in AuthorDrama for AuthorLOTR.
            I
            > wouldn't necessarily always choose to do that and could tweak it
            where I
            > could (for poetry or drabble or humor, something that is definitely
            > distinct), but it wouldn't be required that I tweak it.
            >
            > But only for authors, of course, not sor stories.
            >

            I like this idea much better. Provided it was properly publicized
            (like you did for "Voting ahead" during reading season, so people knew
            they could do this), I'd be fine with this idea.

            Marta
          • Larian Elensar
            I think this is a good suggestion. One overall authors category would be good and I d write more author comments too. Larian
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 1, 2004
              I think this is a good suggestion. One overall authors category would be good
              and I'd write more author comments too.

              Larian


              --- Marta <MartaL0712@...> wrote:

              >
              > My suggestion? Create an "authors" category. This way people can write
              > however much they want to about an author, and only have to write it
              > once. (This also allows them to review more authors if they so choose;
              > I think a lot of people were pressed for time at the end.) I would
              > have probably reviewed some authors, but was not sure which category
              > to review them in and so did not review them in any. :-/ My problem, I
              > know, but I think having all the authors together would really help.
              >
              > Marta
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Viv
              I agree. Perhaps, to avoid that elitist Best Author thing, there could be Author(Poetry), Author(Drabble), Author(WIP), etc for each writing *form*, rather for
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 1, 2004
                I agree. Perhaps, to avoid that elitist Best Author
                thing, there could be Author(Poetry), Author(Drabble),
                Author(WIP), etc for each writing *form*, rather for
                each individual subcategory. After all, if someone
                writes hobbit poetry and orc poetry, it's the same
                poet and the style and quality is usually consistent
                across subject matter.

                That would also cut down on the sheer number of things
                to vote on, which was a problem for some folks.

                viv


                --- Larian Elensar <larian_elensar@...> wrote:

                > I think this is a good suggestion. One overall
                > authors category would be good
                > and I'd write more author comments too.
                >
                > Larian
                >
                >
                > --- Marta <MartaL0712@...> wrote:
                >
                > >
                > > My suggestion? Create an "authors" category. This
                > way people can write
                > > however much they want to about an author, and
                > only have to write it
                > > once. (This also allows them to review more
                > authors if they so choose;
                > > I think a lot of people were pressed for time at
                > the end.) I would
                > > have probably reviewed some authors, but was not
                > sure which category
                > > to review them in and so did not review them in
                > any. :-/ My problem, I
                > > know, but I think having all the authors together
                > would really help.
                > >
                > > Marta
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >


                =====
                Spacellama Palace: http://spacellama.net
              • CC
                I agree with this. I know that it is not easy to categorize authors because some write poetry, some write drama and some write humor, but maybe we could have
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 1, 2004
                  I agree with this. I know that it is not easy to
                  categorize authors because some write poetry, some
                  write drama and some write humor, but maybe we could
                  have *few* sub-categories inside the authors' one?

                  I was here shortly while you were discussing all this,
                  so I am aware I have not read all the reasons given
                  for so many categories, but simplicity, when it's
                  possible, is a good thing.

                  CC

                  --- Larian Elensar <larian_elensar@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > I think this is a good suggestion. One overall
                  > authors category would be good
                  > and I'd write more author comments too.
                  >
                  > Larian
                  >
                  >
                  > --- Marta <MartaL0712@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > > My suggestion? Create an "authors" category. This
                  > way people can write
                  > > however much they want to about an author, and
                  > only have to write it
                  > > once. (This also allows them to review more
                  > authors if they so choose;
                  > > I think a lot of people were pressed for time at
                  > the end.) I would
                  > > have probably reviewed some authors, but was not
                  > sure which category
                  > > to review them in and so did not review them in
                  > any. :-/ My problem, I
                  > > know, but I think having all the authors together
                  > would really help.
                  > >
                  > > Marta
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  =====
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                • Larian Elensar
                  ... I thought a separate authors category was a good idea, but I can see the point about the different categories. Couldn t you just have subcategories then?
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 1, 2004
                    --- Ainaechoiriel <mefaadmin@...> wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Marta [mailto:MartaL0712@...]

                    >
                    > >My suggestion? Create an "authors" category. This way people can write
                    > however much they want to about an author, and only have to write it once.
                    > (This also allows them to review more authors if they so choose; I think a
                    > lot of people were pressed for time at the end.) I would have probably
                    > reviewed some authors, but was not sure which category to review them in and
                    > so did not review them in any. :-/ My problem, I know, but I think having
                    > all the authors together would really help.
                    >
                    > While I acknowledge that difficulty, I still have to say No to this one.
                    > Two reasons: 1) Because as I said before, how one writes drama is different
                    > than how one writes humor. How do you say a poet is better than a novella
                    > author? You can't really compare them. And 2) what you propose would come
                    > down to an Overall Best Author category. That was tried one year with ASC
                    > and it was thrown out in the post-mortem. It is too elitist and far too
                    > inaccruate because of reason #1.

                    I thought a separate authors category was a good idea, but I can see the point
                    about the different categories. Couldn't you just have subcategories then?
                    This probably doesn't sound a lot different than what we did this year, except
                    that there wouldn't be a story and author category for every main category.
                    Just one authors category with sub-categories for different things like humor,
                    drama, etc?






                    >
                    > What about allowing copied comments? In other words, I could choose to copy
                    > the same comment that I gave for Dwim in AuthorDrama for AuthorLOTR. I
                    > wouldn't necessarily always choose to do that and could tweak it where I
                    > could (for poetry or drabble or humor, something that is definitely
                    > distinct), but it wouldn't be required that I tweak it.
                    >
                    > But only for authors, of course, not sor stories.

                    This is a good compromise too, copied comments would work well, I'd think.



                    >
                    > --Ainaechoiriel
                    > MEFA Admin and Founder
                    >
                    > "This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
                    > it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.
                    >
                    > http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
                    > Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Ainaechoiriel
                    ... From: Marta [mailto:MartaL0712@netscape.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 11:51 AM To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: Post Mortem
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 1, 2004
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Marta [mailto:MartaL0712@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 11:51 AM
                      To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: Post Mortem and postponed surprise



                      <snip>
                      >Would anyone be interested in me posting a few author comments from
                      >the ASC Awards to see how they were done successfully
                      for so
                      > many years?
                      >

                      >That would be good.

                      I'm not sure Trekiverse has comments archived, but I have, of course, kept
                      mine. Let me find a few:

                      From Valerie, 2001 ASC Awards:

                      I've read everything Gabrielle writes (even if she thinks mine are too
                      grim) and enjoy her style very much. As one who writes and rewrites until
                      you get it right, I am amazed that she doesn't. She writes grim stuff, but
                      always has that touch of hope there to balance it. Not all of us do that,
                      but she is excellent at balancing the good with the bad without having to
                      have a cheeze "happy" ending.

                      From Seema (can't remember which year):

                      It was good to see Gabrielle back this year. No one writes
                      Julian the way she does. Good luck with finishing "Faith."

                      From RabbbleRouser 2001:

                      Lawson is a very strong writer in terms of her narrative gift and
                      the pacing, description, style, and characterizations are all nicely in
                      place in her stories; as is a solid plot with an interesting sci-fi based
                      mystery at its center in "Faith: Forgiveness." Her Bashir is very
                      interesting.

                      This is one of my favorites. Meghan missed the deadline, so this vote did
                      not count, but she sent it to me, and I treasure it. Would have been for
                      the 2003 Awards:

                      Gabrielle is one fo those authors that you wonder why they aren't writing
                      professionally (maybe cause you write too much!). Her stories are so
                      complex and developed that you forget you're not reading a best selling
                      author (maybe that's redundant). The characters are true to life and
                      although she may disagree, her description is so compelling. Sometimes,
                      after reading one of her stories, I remember a scene that was so vivid that
                      I don't know if I read it or saw it on television. Her stories grab you
                      from the first sentence and don't let go until after you've finished. Some
                      like Oswiecim don't let go at all. Gabrielle is a truely talented writer
                      and I look forward to more from her.

                      (See why I treasure it? And Oswiecim was the Best DS9 General Story winner
                      for 1998!)

                      >Ainae, correct me if I'm wrong, but ASC is divided into ENT/TOS/TNG/
                      DS9/VOY, right? And not subdivided along multiple ways (like we have:
                      source material, race, genre)? You've spent more time in the Trek fandom
                      than I have, but it was my impression that most people tend to write within
                      one show. So I imagine the overlap between characters isn't quite as great.

                      They are first broken into the series. ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and MIS
                      (Mis being Miscellaneous, which includes cobined series and crossovers and
                      original crews). From there, the series are broken down. I won Best DS9
                      Story in 1996. That just meant it was not a subcategory. Someone else won
                      Best DS9 Romance, and that might even break down into pairings or "Featuring
                      Sisko". In 1998 and 2000 I won Best DS9 General Story and Best MIS
                      Combined. DS9 General meaning no subcategory though they did exist and MIS
                      Combined being a mix of two series, in that case TNG and DS9. So yes, they
                      have subcategories.

                      >That doesn't fix our problem, but it is something to consider.

                      Info and answers above for consideration. :-)

                      >Fair enough. I write multiple genres and races and everything, but I think
                      I write it in basically the same way, the story just molds my basic
                      technique into one way or a not. So I could easily review all my stories
                      (Drama, Action, and Romance, Men and Hobbits) stories together. But that's
                      me. I can see how ot might create problems for other authors.

                      Good for you! I only recently took the leap in trying to write a drabble
                      and shocked myself to find out that I could write a filk parody! I had no
                      idea I could do either of those and I don't think I write them in the same
                      way at all. I write DS9 differently than I do LOTR. Ask Julian Bashir.
                      He's probably jealous of Legolas. I've not put Legolas in Auschwitz.
                      Yet.... ;-)

                      --Ainaechoiriel
                      MEFA Admin and Founder

                      "This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
                      it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

                      http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
                      Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com
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