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Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: The Orthodox Gospel message

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  • Rev. Jon M. Ellingworth
    Dave W. wrote: Indeed. Jon
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 3 9:51 AM
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      Dave W. wrote:

      <<I perceive Lutherans and Orthodox
      misunderstand each other more than they perhaps realize.>>

      Indeed.

      Jon


      +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

      "He can no longer have God for his Father, who has not
      the Church for his mother." - St. Cyprian of Carthage

      "O wondrous mystery! One is the Father of all, one also
      the Word of all,and the Holy Spirit is one and the same
      everywhere. And there is only one Virgin Mother;I love to
      call her the Church." - St. Clement of Alexandria

      Rev. Jon M. Ellingworth

      The Lutheran Church of Christ the King
      14 Pine Drive Pawling, NY 12564

      Office 845.855.3169
      Home 845.855.2616
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      Web http://www.pawlinglutheran.org
      Blog http://www.lesteverymanbeblind.blogspot.com

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • randall hay
      Dave, here s a wonderful definition of gospel from St John Chrysostom s commentary on Matthew. I posted it a little while back. ... Matthew hath rightly
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 3 5:26 PM
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        Dave, here's a wonderful definition of "gospel" from St John Chrysostom's commentary on Matthew. I posted it a little while back.

        ---Meanwhile, I forgot to mention when I gave you the list of reading from the fathers, that as far as commentaries those of the Blessed Theophylact are outstanding in that they are well laid-out, concise, and of course based on previous fathers, particularly St John Chrysostom. Right now only his gospel commentaries have been translated into English. Chrysostom's commentaries (availabe in the old Post-Nicene Fathers set) have been standards since the fourth century, a great treasury and available online. They are actually sermons, fairly lengthy....sometimes take a bit of time to find what he says on a particular verse in the way it's laid out in that edition.


        "Matthew hath rightly called his work by a name which signifies �gospel�. Yea, for it was the removal of punishment, and remission of sins, and �righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption,� and adoption, and an inheritance of Heaven, and a relationship unto the Son of God, which he came declaring unto all; to enemies, to the perverse, to them that were sitting in darkness. What then could ever be equal to these good tidings? God on earth, man in Heaven; and all became mingled together, angels joined the choirs of men, men had fellowship with the angels, and with the other powers above: and one might see the long war brought to an end, and reconciliation made between God and our nature, the devil brought to shame, demons in flight, death destroyed, Paradise opened, the curse blotted out, sin put out of the way, error driven off, truth returning, the word of godliness everywhere sown, and flourishing in its growth, the polity of those above
        planted on the earth, those powers in secure intercourse with us, and on earth angels continually haunting, and hope abundant touching things to come."






        ________________________________
        From: Dave W. <dkwiech@...>
        To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:58:55 AM
        Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] The Orthodox Gospel message


        Perhaps an Orthodox participant could summarize in a few words what
        exactly is the understanding of the Gospel and the means of salvation,
        according to the OC. Yes, as Lutherans we believe that the debt has
        already been paid by Christ's death and resurrection, and death has
        been defeated, not by anything we have done or could do, and cannot be
        earned in any fashion through our "works".

        I do not get the feeling that the OC teaches otherwise, but it is
        sometimes hard for us to see this clearly, since we tend to use some of
        the same theological terms in different ways than the OC. I also think
        that Lutherans can be quick to judge others and may be misperceiving
        what is being said by non-Lutherans. I know these discussions have been
        ongoing on this forum, but can this be summarized in a clear concise
        manner, so there in less confusion?




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dave W.
        Randy, Excellent words. Nice and concise. Much appreciated! :)
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 3 6:31 PM
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          Randy,

          Excellent words. Nice and concise. Much appreciated! :)


          --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, randall hay <stortford@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dave, here's a wonderful definition of "gospel" from St John Chrysostom's commentary on Matthew. I posted it a little while back.
          >
          > ---Meanwhile, I forgot to mention when I gave you the list of reading from the fathers, that as far as commentaries those of the Blessed Theophylact are outstanding in that they are well laid-out, concise, and of course based on previous fathers, particularly St John Chrysostom. Right now only his gospel commentaries have been translated into English. Chrysostom's commentaries (availabe in the old Post-Nicene Fathers set) have been standards since the fourth century, a great treasury and available online. They are actually sermons, fairly lengthy....sometimes take a bit of time to find what he says on a particular verse in the way it's laid out in that edition.
          >
          >
          > "Matthew hath rightly called his work by a name which signifies "gospel". Yea, for it was the removal of punishment, and remission of sins, and "righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption," and adoption, and an inheritance of Heaven, and a relationship unto the Son of God, which he came declaring unto all; to enemies, to the perverse, to them that were sitting in darkness. What then could ever be equal to these good tidings? God on earth, man in Heaven; and all became mingled together, angels joined the choirs of men, men had fellowship with the angels, and with the other powers above: and one might see the long war brought to an end, and reconciliation made between God and our nature, the devil brought to shame, demons in flight, death destroyed, Paradise opened, the curse blotted out, sin put out of the way, error driven off, truth returning, the word of godliness everywhere sown, and flourishing in its growth, the polity of those above
          > planted on the earth, those powers in secure intercourse with us, and on earth angels continually haunting, and hope abundant touching things to come."
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Dave W. <dkwiech@...>
          > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:58:55 AM
          > Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] The Orthodox Gospel message
          >
          >
          > Perhaps an Orthodox participant could summarize in a few words what
          > exactly is the understanding of the Gospel and the means of salvation,
          > according to the OC. Yes, as Lutherans we believe that the debt has
          > already been paid by Christ's death and resurrection, and death has
          > been defeated, not by anything we have done or could do, and cannot be
          > earned in any fashion through our "works".
          >
          > I do not get the feeling that the OC teaches otherwise, but it is
          > sometimes hard for us to see this clearly, since we tend to use some of
          > the same theological terms in different ways than the OC. I also think
          > that Lutherans can be quick to judge others and may be misperceiving
          > what is being said by non-Lutherans. I know these discussions have been
          > ongoing on this forum, but can this be summarized in a clear concise
          > manner, so there in less confusion?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
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