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Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Aerial Tollhouse in the Jordanville

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  • randall hay
    The tollhouses are a pretty minor part of Orthodoxy. Extremely rarely mentioned in the fathers. Fr Seraphim Rose brought it up in a big way, because in the
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 12, 2008
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      The "tollhouses" are a pretty minor part of Orthodoxy. Extremely rarely mentioned in the fathers. Fr Seraphim Rose brought it up in a big way, because in the 60's and 70's he was seeing all this stuff in the popular media about near-death experiences suggesting everyone goes to heaven, no matter how debauched your life and what you believe, which fit in with the general prevailing popular notions of relativism and seeing all religions as basically the same. He pointed out that, to the contrary, we are all really truly judged when we die, our lives are examined, and whether they were pleasing to God or the devil.

      As for the "aerial tollhouses" themselves (as the Jordanville Prayer Book has it), they seem to lend themselves to a figurative understanding, not something to be taken in a literal physical spacial sense.

      Yes, the angels play a role in executing God's justice, as Scripture informs us; but they only do what He commands (for the angels) or allows (the demons). The demons always accuse us, the angels, the "ministering spirits" come to our aid.

      This is why there isn't much in the fathers about the tollhouses; it's simply an elaboration on how the judgement of God takes place. I think it's good to know that the demons will indeed be accusing us....but we don't need to be concerned with wooden shacks and gates. Our souls aren't material in that way....and God is in control of it all. He doesn't allow any devils to sneak us off when He's not looking.

      I used to have a problem with the tollhouses, but once I began to see that the concept is more a figurative elaboration on what our minds can't really grasp, it didn't bother me.

      Hope this helps---

      R.






      ________________________________
      From: "phos_hilarion@..." <phos_hilarion@...>
      To: LLE <lutheranslookingeast@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 6:12:49 PM
      Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Aerial Tollhouse in the Jordanville



      Greetings all.

      I've prayed the Canon to the Guardian Angel - found on Myribiblios. net, if I remember rightly. Now that I have the Jordanville, I notice that it is mostly the same. However the last prayer is different in the Jordanville. What concerns me is this quote from the Jordanville: "when I shall pass through the aerial tollhouses". I know that aerial tollhouses are considered controversial in the Orthodox church. Some think it is within the tradition of the church while others say that it is gnostic and has no evidence or support in the Bible. So having already prayed a canon to the guardian angel where any hint of passing through toll houses was never present, I was surprised to find it in the Jordanville. If this topic is controversial, why is it in a common prayerbook?

      Please, any insight you can give in this matter would be helpful. I have already done some reading on the topic via Orthowiki and I'm inclined to disbelieve toll houses. What then about this prayer? Don't pray it? And I don't like the implications of that. Picking and choosing what one likes best is too much like current Lutheranism. I am fully aware that I may not be understanding this topic in it's correct light as, in the past, I have not perfectly understood every Orthodox thought on first examination.

      I am at a loss. Please enlighten me.

      Love in Christ,
      your little phos

      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
      Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.
      http://windowslive. com/Explore/ hotmail?ocid= TXT_TAGLM_ WL_hotmail_ acq_speed_ 122008

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Christopher Orr
      I think that was a very good explanation, Randall. You are also essentially paraphrasing Fr. Seraphim Rose himself on How to Understand the Tollhouses , as
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 13, 2008
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        I think that was a very good explanation, Randall. You are also essentially
        paraphrasing Fr. Seraphim Rose himself on "How to Understand the
        Tollhouses", as he put it in "The Soul After Death". I am planning on
        typing out for y'all the relevant section (pp. 66-69 in the 2004 edition of
        the book). I always found it odd that the complaints against Fr. Seraphim's
        explanation of the tollhouses essentially quoted him, as if he hadn't said
        it first: "they're not physically 'real', it's a spiritual image". They
        just said it really loudly. I think the hubbub was as much about church
        infighting from the left and the right (from the OCA/GOA, etc. on the left
        and from the Boston wing of ROCOR on the right).

        Christopher



        On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 12:16 AM, randall hay <stortford@...>wrote:

        > The "tollhouses" are a pretty minor part of Orthodoxy. Extremely rarely
        > mentioned in the fathers. Fr Seraphim Rose brought it up in a big way,
        > because in the 60's and 70's he was seeing all this stuff in the popular
        > media about near-death experiences suggesting everyone goes to heaven, no
        > matter how debauched your life and what you believe, which fit in with the
        > general prevailing popular notions of relativism and seeing all religions as
        > basically the same. He pointed out that, to the contrary, we are all really
        > truly judged when we die, our lives are examined, and whether they were
        > pleasing to God or the devil.
        >
        > As for the "aerial tollhouses" themselves (as the Jordanville Prayer Book
        > has it), they seem to lend themselves to a figurative understanding, not
        > something to be taken in a literal physical spacial sense.
        >
        > Yes, the angels play a role in executing God's justice, as Scripture
        > informs us; but they only do what He commands (for the angels) or allows
        > (the demons). The demons always accuse us, the angels, the "ministering
        > spirits" come to our aid.
        >
        > This is why there isn't much in the fathers about the tollhouses; it's
        > simply an elaboration on how the judgement of God takes place. I think it's
        > good to know that the demons will indeed be accusing us....but we don't need
        > to be concerned with wooden shacks and gates. Our souls aren't material in
        > that way....and God is in control of it all. He doesn't allow any devils to
        > sneak us off when He's not looking.
        >
        > I used to have a problem with the tollhouses, but once I began to see that
        > the concept is more a figurative elaboration on what our minds can't really
        > grasp, it didn't bother me.
        >
        > Hope this helps---
        >
        > R.
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: "phos_hilarion@... <phos_hilarion%40hotmail.com>" <
        > phos_hilarion@... <phos_hilarion%40hotmail.com>>
        > To: LLE <lutheranslookingeast@yahoogroups.com<lutheranslookingeast%40yahoogroups.com>
        > >
        > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 6:12:49 PM
        > Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Aerial Tollhouse in the Jordanville
        >
        >
        > Greetings all.
        >
        > I've prayed the Canon to the Guardian Angel - found on Myribiblios. net, if
        > I remember rightly. Now that I have the Jordanville, I notice that it is
        > mostly the same. However the last prayer is different in the Jordanville.
        > What concerns me is this quote from the Jordanville: "when I shall pass
        > through the aerial tollhouses". I know that aerial tollhouses are considered
        > controversial in the Orthodox church. Some think it is within the tradition
        > of the church while others say that it is gnostic and has no evidence or
        > support in the Bible. So having already prayed a canon to the guardian angel
        > where any hint of passing through toll houses was never present, I was
        > surprised to find it in the Jordanville. If this topic is controversial, why
        > is it in a common prayerbook?
        >
        > Please, any insight you can give in this matter would be helpful. I have
        > already done some reading on the topic via Orthowiki and I'm inclined to
        > disbelieve toll houses. What then about this prayer? Don't pray it? And I
        > don't like the implications of that. Picking and choosing what one likes
        > best is too much like current Lutheranism. I am fully aware that I may not
        > be understanding this topic in it's correct light as, in the past, I have
        > not perfectly understood every Orthodox thought on first examination.
        >
        > I am at a loss. Please enlighten me.
        >
        > Love in Christ,
        > your little phos
        >
        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
        > Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.
        > http://windowslive. com/Explore/ hotmail?ocid= TXT_TAGLM_ WL_hotmail_
        > acq_speed_ 122008
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • phos_hilarion@hotmail.com
        Thank you very much. Your thoughts were very helpful. It is always good to see things from another s eyes. I am not as terribly bothered by toll houses now
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 13, 2008
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          Thank you very much. Your thoughts were very helpful. It is always good to see things from another's eyes. I am not as terribly bothered by toll houses now that I know they should be understood as a spiritual, figurative metaphor. I am glad that you shared the context in which Fr. Seraphim was writing - I can begin to understand where he was coming from in laying a heavy emphasis on the topic.

          Christopher, I don't know anything about the left and right within Orthodoxy. I did note that one of the main opponents is the former Archbishop Lazar of the OCA. But I also found a deacon who pretty fairly explains both sides and remains ambivalent as to his own thoughts, found here: http://www.stlukeorthodox.com/html/evangelist/2000/deathtoll.htm I have not yet come across or read anything written from ROCOR. I will look forward to reading the pages from Fr. Seraphim Rose.

          Pray for me.
          Love in Christ,
          phos

          To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
          From: stortford@...
          Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:16:40 -0800
          Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Aerial Tollhouse in the Jordanville




















          The "tollhouses" are a pretty minor part of Orthodoxy. Extremely rarely mentioned in the fathers. Fr Seraphim Rose brought it up in a big way, because in the 60's and 70's he was seeing all this stuff in the popular media about near-death experiences suggesting everyone goes to heaven, no matter how debauched your life and what you believe, which fit in with the general prevailing popular notions of relativism and seeing all religions as basically the same. He pointed out that, to the contrary, we are all really truly judged when we die, our lives are examined, and whether they were pleasing to God or the devil.



          As for the "aerial tollhouses" themselves (as the Jordanville Prayer Book has it), they seem to lend themselves to a figurative understanding, not something to be taken in a literal physical spacial sense.



          Yes, the angels play a role in executing God's justice, as Scripture informs us; but they only do what He commands (for the angels) or allows (the demons). The demons always accuse us, the angels, the "ministering spirits" come to our aid.



          This is why there isn't much in the fathers about the tollhouses; it's simply an elaboration on how the judgement of God takes place. I think it's good to know that the demons will indeed be accusing us....but we don't need to be concerned with wooden shacks and gates. Our souls aren't material in that way....and God is in control of it all. He doesn't allow any devils to sneak us off when He's not looking.



          I used to have a problem with the tollhouses, but once I began to see that the concept is more a figurative elaboration on what our minds can't really grasp, it didn't bother me.



          Hope this helps---



          R.



          ________________________________

          From: "phos_hilarion@..." <phos_hilarion@...>

          To: LLE <lutheranslookingeast@yahoogroups.com>

          Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 6:12:49 PM

          Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Aerial Tollhouse in the Jordanville



          Greetings all.



          I've prayed the Canon to the Guardian Angel - found on Myribiblios. net, if I remember rightly. Now that I have the Jordanville, I notice that it is mostly the same. However the last prayer is different in the Jordanville. What concerns me is this quote from the Jordanville: "when I shall pass through the aerial tollhouses". I know that aerial tollhouses are considered controversial in the Orthodox church. Some think it is within the tradition of the church while others say that it is gnostic and has no evidence or support in the Bible. So having already prayed a canon to the guardian angel where any hint of passing through toll houses was never present, I was surprised to find it in the Jordanville. If this topic is controversial, why is it in a common prayerbook?



          Please, any insight you can give in this matter would be helpful. I have already done some reading on the topic via Orthowiki and I'm inclined to disbelieve toll houses. What then about this prayer? Don't pray it? And I don't like the implications of that. Picking and choosing what one likes best is too much like current Lutheranism. I am fully aware that I may not be understanding this topic in it's correct light as, in the past, I have not perfectly understood every Orthodox thought on first examination.



          I am at a loss. Please enlighten me.



          Love in Christ,

          your little phos



          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

          Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.

          http://windowslive. com/Explore/ hotmail?ocid= TXT_TAGLM_ WL_hotmail_ acq_speed_ 122008



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















          _________________________________________________________________
          Suspicious message? There�s an alert for that.
          http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad2_122008

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Rebecca Wilson
          Dear Randall,   I usually just read the postings but I wanted to express my appreciation for your non-hysterical explanation/understanding of the
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 13, 2008
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            Dear Randall,
             
            I usually just read the postings but I wanted to express my appreciation for your non-hysterical explanation/understanding of the "tollhouses" which is such an obscure and, I think, esoteric idea of the end of our lives.  With the discovery and popularity of the writings of Blessed Fr. Seraphim Rose (many of those writings were in answer to specific questions


            --- On Sat, 12/13/08, randall hay <stortford@...> wrote:

            From: randall hay <stortford@...>
            Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Aerial Tollhouse in the Jordanville
            To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:16 AM






            The "tollhouses" are a pretty minor part of Orthodoxy. Extremely rarely mentioned in the fathers. Fr Seraphim Rose brought it up in a big way, because in the 60's and 70's he was seeing all this stuff in the popular media about near-death experiences suggesting everyone goes to heaven, no matter how debauched your life and what you believe, which fit in with the general prevailing popular notions of relativism and seeing all religions as basically the same. He pointed out that, to the contrary, we are all really truly judged when we die, our lives are examined, and whether they were pleasing to God or the devil.

            As for the "aerial tollhouses" themselves (as the Jordanville Prayer Book has it), they seem to lend themselves to a figurative understanding, not something to be taken in a literal physical spacial sense.

            Yes, the angels play a role in executing God's justice, as Scripture informs us; but they only do what He commands (for the angels) or allows (the demons). The demons always accuse us, the angels, the "ministering spirits" come to our aid.

            This is why there isn't much in the fathers about the tollhouses; it's simply an elaboration on how the judgement of God takes place. I think it's good to know that the demons will indeed be accusing us....but we don't need to be concerned with wooden shacks and gates. Our souls aren't material in that way....and God is in control of it all. He doesn't allow any devils to sneak us off when He's not looking.

            I used to have a problem with the tollhouses, but once I began to see that the concept is more a figurative elaboration on what our minds can't really grasp, it didn't bother me.

            Hope this helps---

            R.

            ____________ _________ _________ __
            From: "phos_hilarion@ hotmail.com" <phos_hilarion@ hotmail.com>
            To: LLE <lutheranslookingeas t@yahoogroups. com>
            Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 6:12:49 PM
            Subject: [LutheransLookingEa st] Aerial Tollhouse in the Jordanville

            Greetings all.

            I've prayed the Canon to the Guardian Angel - found on Myribiblios. net, if I remember rightly. Now that I have the Jordanville, I notice that it is mostly the same. However the last prayer is different in the Jordanville. What concerns me is this quote from the Jordanville: "when I shall pass through the aerial tollhouses". I know that aerial tollhouses are considered controversial in the Orthodox church. Some think it is within the tradition of the church while others say that it is gnostic and has no evidence or support in the Bible. So having already prayed a canon to the guardian angel where any hint of passing through toll houses was never present, I was surprised to find it in the Jordanville. If this topic is controversial, why is it in a common prayerbook?

            Please, any insight you can give in this matter would be helpful. I have already done some reading on the topic via Orthowiki and I'm inclined to disbelieve toll houses. What then about this prayer? Don't pray it? And I don't like the implications of that. Picking and choosing what one likes best is too much like current Lutheranism. I am fully aware that I may not be understanding this topic in it's correct light as, in the past, I have not perfectly understood every Orthodox thought on first examination.

            I am at a loss. Please enlighten me.

            Love in Christ,
            your little phos

            ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
            Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.
            http://windowslive. com/Explore/ hotmail?ocid= TXT_TAGLM_ WL_hotmail_ acq_speed_ 122008

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • randall hay
            Rebecca, glad I could help! Incidentally, I came across an interesting bit in St. John Chrysostom about the role of angels in judgement. Commenting on the
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 13, 2008
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              Rebecca, glad I could help!

              Incidentally, I came across an interesting bit in St. John Chrysostom about the role of angels in judgement. Commenting on the parable of the sower in Matthew, he says:

              "Mark [Jesus's] unspeakable love to man and His leaning to bounty, and His disinclination to punishment; in that, when He sows, He sows in His own person, but when He punishes, it is by others, that is, by the angels." (PNF p. 293)

              In Christ,

              R.








              ________________________________
              From: Rebecca Wilson <emmy88heaven@...>
              To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 8:08:45 PM
              Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Aerial Tollhouse in the Jordanville


              Dear Randall,

              I usually just read the postings but I wanted to express my appreciation for your non-hysterical explanation/ understanding of the "tollhouses" which is such an obscure and, I think, esoteric idea of the end of our lives. With the discovery and popularity of the writings of Blessed Fr. Seraphim Rose (many of those writings were in answer to specific questions

              --- On Sat, 12/13/08, randall hay <stortford@sbcglobal .net> wrote:

              From: randall hay <stortford@sbcglobal .net>
              Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEa st] Aerial Tollhouse in the Jordanville
              To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
              Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:16 AM

              The "tollhouses" are a pretty minor part of Orthodoxy. Extremely rarely mentioned in the fathers. Fr Seraphim Rose brought it up in a big way, because in the 60's and 70's he was seeing all this stuff in the popular media about near-death experiences suggesting everyone goes to heaven, no matter how debauched your life and what you believe, which fit in with the general prevailing popular notions of relativism and seeing all religions as basically the same. He pointed out that, to the contrary, we are all really truly judged when we die, our lives are examined, and whether they were pleasing to God or the devil.

              As for the "aerial tollhouses" themselves (as the Jordanville Prayer Book has it), they seem to lend themselves to a figurative understanding, not something to be taken in a literal physical spacial sense.

              Yes, the angels play a role in executing God's justice, as Scripture informs us; but they only do what He commands (for the angels) or allows (the demons). The demons always accuse us, the angels, the "ministering spirits" come to our aid.

              This is why there isn't much in the fathers about the tollhouses; it's simply an elaboration on how the judgement of God takes place. I think it's good to know that the demons will indeed be accusing us....but we don't need to be concerned with wooden shacks and gates. Our souls aren't material in that way....and God is in control of it all. He doesn't allow any devils to sneak us off when He's not looking.

              I used to have a problem with the tollhouses, but once I began to see that the concept is more a figurative elaboration on what our minds can't really grasp, it didn't bother me.

              Hope this helps---

              R.

              ____________ _________ _________ __
              From: "phos_hilarion@ hotmail.com" <phos_hilarion@ hotmail.com>
              To: LLE <lutheranslookingea s t@yahoogroups. com>
              Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 6:12:49 PM
              Subject: [LutheransLookingEa st] Aerial Tollhouse in the Jordanville

              Greetings all.

              I've prayed the Canon to the Guardian Angel - found on Myribiblios. net, if I remember rightly. Now that I have the Jordanville, I notice that it is mostly the same. However the last prayer is different in the Jordanville. What concerns me is this quote from the Jordanville: "when I shall pass through the aerial tollhouses". I know that aerial tollhouses are considered controversial in the Orthodox church. Some think it is within the tradition of the church while others say that it is gnostic and has no evidence or support in the Bible. So having already prayed a canon to the guardian angel where any hint of passing through toll houses was never present, I was surprised to find it in the Jordanville. If this topic is controversial, why is it in a common prayerbook?

              Please, any insight you can give in this matter would be helpful. I have already done some reading on the topic via Orthowiki and I'm inclined to disbelieve toll houses. What then about this prayer? Don't pray it? And I don't like the implications of that. Picking and choosing what one likes best is too much like current Lutheranism. I am fully aware that I may not be understanding this topic in it's correct light as, in the past, I have not perfectly understood every Orthodox thought on first examination.

              I am at a loss. Please enlighten me.

              Love in Christ,
              your little phos

              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
              Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.
              http://windowslive. com/Explore/ hotmail?ocid= TXT_TAGLM_ WL_hotmail_ acq_speed_ 122008

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • randall hay
              Glad my comments were helpful! I came across an interesting bit by St John Chrysostom on the role of angels, that I included in response to Rebecca.... In
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 13, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Glad my comments were helpful!

                I came across an interesting bit by St John Chrysostom on the role of angels, that I included in response to Rebecca....

                In Christ,

                R.





                ________________________________
                From: "phos_hilarion@..." <phos_hilarion@...>
                To: LLE <lutheranslookingeast@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:23:04 AM
                Subject: RE: [LutheransLookingEast] Aerial Tollhouse in the Jordanville


                Thank you very much. Your thoughts were very helpful. It is always good to see things from another's eyes. I am not as terribly bothered by toll houses now that I know they should be understood as a spiritual, figurative metaphor. I am glad that you shared the context in which Fr. Seraphim was writing - I can begin to understand where he was coming from in laying a heavy emphasis on the topic.

                Christopher, I don't know anything about the left and right within Orthodoxy. I did note that one of the main opponents is the former Archbishop Lazar of the OCA. But I also found a deacon who pretty fairly explains both sides and remains ambivalent as to his own thoughts, found here: http://www.stlukeorthodox.com/html/evangelist/2000/deathtoll.htm I have not yet come across or read anything written from ROCOR. I will look forward to reading the pages from Fr. Seraphim Rose.

                Pray for me.
                Love in Christ,
                phos

                To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                From: stortford@...
                Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:16:40 -0800
                Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Aerial Tollhouse in the Jordanville




















                The "tollhouses" are a pretty minor part of Orthodoxy. Extremely rarely mentioned in the fathers. Fr Seraphim Rose brought it up in a big way, because in the 60's and 70's he was seeing all this stuff in the popular media about near-death experiences suggesting everyone goes to heaven, no matter how debauched your life and what you believe, which fit in with the general prevailing popular notions of relativism and seeing all religions as basically the same. He pointed out that, to the contrary, we are all really truly judged when we die, our lives are examined, and whether they were pleasing to God or the devil.



                As for the "aerial tollhouses" themselves (as the Jordanville Prayer Book has it), they seem to lend themselves to a figurative understanding, not something to be taken in a literal physical spacial sense.



                Yes, the angels play a role in executing God's justice, as Scripture informs us; but they only do what He commands (for the angels) or allows (the demons). The demons always accuse us, the angels, the "ministering spirits" come to our aid.



                This is why there isn't much in the fathers about the tollhouses; it's simply an elaboration on how the judgement of God takes place. I think it's good to know that the demons will indeed be accusing us....but we don't need to be concerned with wooden shacks and gates. Our souls aren't material in that way....and God is in control of it all. He doesn't allow any devils to sneak us off when He's not looking.



                I used to have a problem with the tollhouses, but once I began to see that the concept is more a figurative elaboration on what our minds can't really grasp, it didn't bother me.



                Hope this helps---



                R.



                ________________________________

                From: "phos_hilarion@..." <phos_hilarion@...>

                To: LLE <lutheranslookingeast@yahoogroups.com>

                Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 6:12:49 PM

                Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Aerial Tollhouse in the Jordanville



                Greetings all.



                I've prayed the Canon to the Guardian Angel - found on Myribiblios. net, if I remember rightly. Now that I have the Jordanville, I notice that it is mostly the same. However the last prayer is different in the Jordanville. What concerns me is this quote from the Jordanville: "when I shall pass through the aerial tollhouses". I know that aerial tollhouses are considered controversial in the Orthodox church. Some think it is within the tradition of the church while others say that it is gnostic and has no evidence or support in the Bible. So having already prayed a canon to the guardian angel where any hint of passing through toll houses was never present, I was surprised to find it in the Jordanville. If this topic is controversial, why is it in a common prayerbook?



                Please, any insight you can give in this matter would be helpful. I have already done some reading on the topic via Orthowiki and I'm inclined to disbelieve toll houses. What then about this prayer? Don't pray it? And I don't like the implications of that. Picking and choosing what one likes best is too much like current Lutheranism. I am fully aware that I may not be understanding this topic in it's correct light as, in the past, I have not perfectly understood every Orthodox thought on first examination.



                I am at a loss. Please enlighten me.



                Love in Christ,

                your little phos



                ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

                Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.

                http://windowslive. com/Explore/ hotmail?ocid= TXT_TAGLM_ WL_hotmail_ acq_speed_ 122008



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















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                Suspicious message? There�s an alert for that.
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