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Forgiveness of Sins

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  • Christopher Orr
    I would very much like to hear a discussion on what forgiveness of sins means to the Orthodox outside of a penal substituion or forensic substitution model.
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 22, 2007
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      I would very much like to hear a discussion on what 'forgiveness of sins'
      means to the Orthodox outside of a penal substituion or forensic
      substitution model. If God isn't keeping a tally of ours sins and requiring
      satisfaction for his offended Justice, than what is forgiveness or remission
      of sins? Orthodoxy teaches and proclaims forgiveness of sins at Communion,
      at Confession, etc. How is this different than the Lutheran understanding
      of forgiveness, if at all?

      Christopher


      On 4/20/07, Randy Asburry <r.asburry@...> wrote:
      >
      > So, has anyone put that quote from Hopko out on a Lutheran blog to see
      > what
      > the response would be? (I just don't frequent blogs that much, and I'm
      > happy
      > to leave that - "blogdom," that is - to others who are so inclined.) I
      > would
      > be curious to hear about any responses.
      >
      > Randy
      >
      > + + + + +
      > Rev. Randy Asburry
      > Hope Lutheran Church
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • herrdave2_prime
      Right before Great Lent, I heard a priest explain the nature of forgiveness after confession. He said that the sins are cast into oblivion.
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 25, 2007
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        Right before Great Lent, I heard a priest explain the nature of forgiveness after confession. He said that the sins are cast into oblivion.

        --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Orr" <xcjorr@...> wrote:
        >
        > I would very much like to hear a discussion on what 'forgiveness of sins'
        > means to the Orthodox outside of a penal substituion or forensic
        > substitution model. If God isn't keeping a tally of ours sins and requiring
        > satisfaction for his offended Justice, than what is forgiveness or remission
        > of sins? Orthodoxy teaches and proclaims forgiveness of sins at Communion,
        > at Confession, etc. How is this different than the Lutheran understanding
        > of forgiveness, if at all?
        >
        > Christopher
        >
        >
        > On 4/20/07, Randy Asburry <r.asburry@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > So, has anyone put that quote from Hopko out on a Lutheran blog to see
        > > what
        > > the response would be? (I just don't frequent blogs that much, and I'm
        > > happy
        > > to leave that - "blogdom," that is - to others who are so inclined.) I
        > > would
        > > be curious to hear about any responses.
        > >
        > > Randy
        > >
        > > + + + + +
        > > Rev. Randy Asburry
        > > Hope Lutheran Church
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Anastasia Theodoridis
        ... ISTM it means a cancellation of the debt, rather than a vicarious collecting of it. It means there IS true forgiveness, rather than displaced punishment.
        Message 3 of 3 , Apr 25, 2007
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          > I would very much like to hear a discussion
          > on what 'forgiveness of sins' means to the
          > Orthodox outside of a penal substituion or
          > forensic substitution model.

          ISTM it means a cancellation of the debt, rather than a vicarious collecting of it. It means there IS true forgiveness, rather than displaced punishment.

          While I fully agree that Christ was punished *in effect*, yet punishment was neither the *cause* nor the *purpose* for which He suffered and died. Punishment was one of the numerous effects of the Passion but not the reasoning behind what happened.

          (Sin itself already has its own proper punishment built right in.)

          Personally, I believe this is the biggest difference between the Lutheran and Orthodox outlooks on this subject.

          Anastasia
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