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RE: [LutheransLookingEast] Wisdom?

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  • phos_hilarion@hotmail.com
    Thank you Subdeacon Randy for pointing out that the icon predates the heresy. I tried to find the words to The Canon to Our Sweetest Jesus on Myriobiblos. I
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 3, 2008
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      Thank you Subdeacon Randy for pointing out that the icon predates the heresy. I tried to find the words to The Canon to Our Sweetest Jesus on Myriobiblos. I found an Akathist to our Sweetest Lord Jesus Christ and also a Canon to our Lord Jesus Christ - are either of these the one to which you refer? Forgive me, I'm not very familiar with your liturgy.

      Christopher and Peter, thanks for your answers also. They were very helpful to me.
      Love in Christ,
      phos

      To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
      From: stortford@...
      Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 16:09:41 -0700
      Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Wisdom?




















      Peter put it very nicely here. The Canon to Our Sweetest Jesus (used quite commonly) refers to Christ as "Wisdom of the Most High personified." OT references to wisdom in this sense are taken this way....



      The sophiological heresy is a fairly recent one that arose in Russian circles...I've heard it still exists (apparently there's a Protestant professor at nearby Butler's Christian Theological Seminary who's a great proponent) but I've never met a sophiogist in person.



      The Hagia Sophia icon predates the heresy by many centuries, and is symbolic...my Russian one has Christ featured prominently---



      Subdeacon Randy



      ----- Original Message ----

      From: BPeter Brandt-Sorheim <donpedrogordo@...>

      To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com

      Sent: Monday, June 2, 2008 3:58:58 PM

      Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Wisdom?



      Though the Greek word SOPHIA has the grammatical feminine gender the Wisdom of God is (without gender or perhaps one should say includes all gender) the Word of God who incarnated as the man Jesus Christ. On another list there was a discussion of what sort of images should be used to depict Holy Wisdom. I would argue that, despite any existing precedents, any image of Holy Wisdom should be identifiably the image of Jesus Christ. I have at home an image of Holy Wisdom as a young male creating the world. It falls short of including the monograms for Jesus Christ but is otherwise impressive [by the hand of Robert Lenz, previously marketed through Bridge Building Images and maybe not currently available elsewhere either]. Peter



      phos_hilarion@ hotmail.com wrote:



      What is the proper Orthodox view of Wisdom/Sophia in the Book of Proverbs?



      from Orthodoxwiki:

      Sophianism (from Greek Óïöéá "wisdom") is a heresy which has been condemned by the Russian Orthodox Church. Sophianism has roots in Wisdom Theology, nineteenth and twentieth century Russian Theology, preeminently Sergius Bulgakov through the influence of Vladimir Solovyov, and contemporary feminism. Russian Orthodox Priest Georges Florovsky and Orthodox theologian Vladimir Lossky opposed the interjection of the deity Sophia. Vladimir Lossky stated that it was a misguided uniting together of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary into a single deity or hypostasis of God.



      Was it only the Russian Orthodox Church that condemned it or all of Orthodoxy?



      I've come across icons of Sophia - are they also condemned or are they kept and understood in a different way?



      Love in Christ,

      phos



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    • Christopher Orr
      Here is a link to the text of the Canon to our Sweetest Lord Jesus, which is the version from the Jordanville Prayer Book (I am pretty sure, since the owner of
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 3, 2008
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        Here is a link to the text of the Canon to our Sweetest Lord Jesus, which is
        the version from the Jordanville Prayer Book (I am pretty sure, since the
        owner of this site is a ROCOR priest):

        http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/icxc_canon.htm

        Christopher


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Christopher Orr
        Here is a link to a wide variety of Canons, Akathists and Services for various saints, for those interested:
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 3, 2008
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          Here is a link to a wide variety of Canons, Akathists and Services for
          various saints, for those interested:

          http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/akathists.htm

          Christopher


          On 6/3/08, Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote:
          >
          > Here is a link to the text of the Canon to our Sweetest Lord Jesus, which
          > is the version from the Jordanville Prayer Book (I am pretty sure, since the
          > owner of this site is a ROCOR priest):
          >
          > http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/icxc_canon.htm
          >
          > Christopher
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • BPeter Brandt-Sorheim
          Let me add tangentally that this canon is one of the three canons which in Russian use are advised for communicant to read as part of the preparation for
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 3, 2008
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            Let me add tangentally that this canon is one of the three canons which in Russian use are advised for communicant to read as part of the preparation for communion along with the canon to the Mother of God, the canon to the Guardian Angel and the other prayers for before communion. There are also prayers after communion. These are spiritually nourishing. Peter

            Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote: Here is a link to the text of the Canon to our Sweetest Lord Jesus, which is
            the version from the Jordanville Prayer Book (I am pretty sure, since the
            owner of this site is a ROCOR priest):

            http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/icxc_canon.htm

            Christopher

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • randall hay
            Phos, I checked, and actually it s in neither! Sorry about that. It s found in the seventh ode in the canon to the guardian angel, which, as Peter mentioned,
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 3, 2008
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              Phos, I checked, and actually it's in neither! Sorry about that. It's found in the seventh ode in the canon to the guardian angel, which, as Peter mentioned, is part of the weekly prayers of preparation for Eucharist:

              Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit:

              My whole soul is disgraced by the evil thoughts and deeds I have brought upon me, but make haste, O my guide, and grant me healing with good thoughts, that I may be inclined always to the right way.

              Both now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen

              To Jesus: O Wisdom of the High Personified, for the sake of the Theotokos, fill with wisdom and divine strength all that faithfully cry: O God of our fathers, blessed art Thou.


              In Christ,
              R.

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: "phos_hilarion@..." <phos_hilarion@...>
              To: lutheranslookingeast@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 11:39:26 AM
              Subject: RE: [LutheransLookingEast] Wisdom?



              Thank you Subdeacon Randy for pointing out that the icon predates the heresy. I tried to find the words to The Canon to Our Sweetest Jesus on Myriobiblos. I found an Akathist to our Sweetest Lord Jesus Christ and also a Canon to our Lord Jesus Christ - are either of these the one to which you refer? Forgive me, I'm not very familiar with your liturgy.

              Christopher and Peter, thanks for your answers also. They were very helpful to me.
              Love in Christ,
              phos

              To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
              From: stortford@sbcglobal .net
              Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 16:09:41 -0700
              Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEa st] Wisdom?

              Peter put it very nicely here. The Canon to Our Sweetest Jesus (used quite commonly) refers to Christ as "Wisdom of the Most High personified. " OT references to wisdom in this sense are taken this way....

              The sophiological heresy is a fairly recent one that arose in Russian circles...I' ve heard it still exists (apparently there's a Protestant professor at nearby Butler's Christian Theological Seminary who's a great proponent) but I've never met a sophiogist in person.

              The Hagia Sophia icon predates the heresy by many centuries, and is symbolic...my Russian one has Christ featured prominently- --

              Subdeacon Randy

              ----- Original Message ----

              From: BPeter Brandt-Sorheim <donpedrogordo@ yahoo.com>

              To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com

              Sent: Monday, June 2, 2008 3:58:58 PM

              Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEa st] Wisdom?

              Though the Greek word SOPHIA has the grammatical feminine gender the Wisdom of God is (without gender or perhaps one should say includes all gender) the Word of God who incarnated as the man Jesus Christ. On another list there was a discussion of what sort of images should be used to depict Holy Wisdom. I would argue that, despite any existing precedents, any image of Holy Wisdom should be identifiably the image of Jesus Christ. I have at home an image of Holy Wisdom as a young male creating the world. It falls short of including the monograms for Jesus Christ but is otherwise impressive [by the hand of Robert Lenz, previously marketed through Bridge Building Images and maybe not currently available elsewhere either]. Peter

              phos_hilarion@ hotmail.com wrote:

              What is the proper Orthodox view of Wisdom/Sophia in the Book of Proverbs?

              from Orthodoxwiki:

              Sophianism (from Greek Óïöéá "wisdom") is a heresy which has been condemned by the Russian Orthodox Church. Sophianism has roots in Wisdom Theology, nineteenth and twentieth century Russian Theology, preeminently Sergius Bulgakov through the influence of Vladimir Solovyov, and contemporary feminism. Russian Orthodox Priest Georges Florovsky and Orthodox theologian Vladimir Lossky opposed the interjection of the deity Sophia. Vladimir Lossky stated that it was a misguided uniting together of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary into a single deity or hypostasis of God.

              Was it only the Russian Orthodox Church that condemned it or all of Orthodoxy?

              I've come across icons of Sophia - are they also condemned or are they kept and understood in a different way?

              Love in Christ,

              phos

              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

              Give to a good cause with every e-mail. Join the i'm Initiative from Microsoft.

              http://im.live. com/Messenger/ IM/Join/Default. aspx?souce= EML_WL_ GoodCause

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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            • randall hay
              ... R. ... From: phos_hilarion@hotmail.com To: lutheranslookingeast@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 11:39:26 AM
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 3, 2008
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                ----By the way, I'll attach a copy of the canons for Communion. The ones to Christ, the Theotokos and Guardian Angel are interwoven (there is a particular way to do three canons together), followed by the canon for Holy Communion and then more pre-Communion prayers....these are the most recent version from the Jordanville Prayer Book (except a few of the ones toward the end are a different translation)---
                R.


                ----- Original Message ----
                From: "phos_hilarion@..." <phos_hilarion@...>
                To: lutheranslookingeast@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 11:39:26 AM
                Subject: RE: [LutheransLookingEast] Wisdom?



                Thank you Subdeacon Randy for pointing out that the icon predates the heresy. I tried to find the words to The Canon to Our Sweetest Jesus on Myriobiblos. I found an Akathist to our Sweetest Lord Jesus Christ and also a Canon to our Lord Jesus Christ - are either of these the one to which you refer? Forgive me, I'm not very familiar with your liturgy.

                Christopher and Peter, thanks for your answers also. They were very helpful to me.
                Love in Christ,
                phos

                To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                From: stortford@sbcglobal .net
                Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 16:09:41 -0700
                Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEa st] Wisdom?

                Peter put it very nicely here. The Canon to Our Sweetest Jesus (used quite commonly) refers to Christ as "Wisdom of the Most High personified. " OT references to wisdom in this sense are taken this way....

                The sophiological heresy is a fairly recent one that arose in Russian circles...I' ve heard it still exists (apparently there's a Protestant professor at nearby Butler's Christian Theological Seminary who's a great proponent) but I've never met a sophiogist in person.

                The Hagia Sophia icon predates the heresy by many centuries, and is symbolic...my Russian one has Christ featured prominently- --

                Subdeacon Randy

                ----- Original Message ----

                From: BPeter Brandt-Sorheim <donpedrogordo@ yahoo.com>

                To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com

                Sent: Monday, June 2, 2008 3:58:58 PM

                Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEa st] Wisdom?

                Though the Greek word SOPHIA has the grammatical feminine gender the Wisdom of God is (without gender or perhaps one should say includes all gender) the Word of God who incarnated as the man Jesus Christ. On another list there was a discussion of what sort of images should be used to depict Holy Wisdom. I would argue that, despite any existing precedents, any image of Holy Wisdom should be identifiably the image of Jesus Christ. I have at home an image of Holy Wisdom as a young male creating the world. It falls short of including the monograms for Jesus Christ but is otherwise impressive [by the hand of Robert Lenz, previously marketed through Bridge Building Images and maybe not currently available elsewhere either]. Peter

                phos_hilarion@ hotmail.com wrote:

                What is the proper Orthodox view of Wisdom/Sophia in the Book of Proverbs?

                from Orthodoxwiki:

                Sophianism (from Greek Óïöéá "wisdom") is a heresy which has been condemned by the Russian Orthodox Church. Sophianism has roots in Wisdom Theology, nineteenth and twentieth century Russian Theology, preeminently Sergius Bulgakov through the influence of Vladimir Solovyov, and contemporary feminism. Russian Orthodox Priest Georges Florovsky and Orthodox theologian Vladimir Lossky opposed the interjection of the deity Sophia. Vladimir Lossky stated that it was a misguided uniting together of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary into a single deity or hypostasis of God.

                Was it only the Russian Orthodox Church that condemned it or all of Orthodoxy?

                I've come across icons of Sophia - are they also condemned or are they kept and understood in a different way?

                Love in Christ,

                phos

                ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

                Give to a good cause with every e-mail. Join the i'm Initiative from Microsoft.

                http://im.live. com/Messenger/ IM/Join/Default. aspx?souce= EML_WL_ GoodCause

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                ------------ --------- --------- ------

                Yahoo! Groups Links

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                http://search. live.com/ cashback/ ?&pkw=form= MIJAAF/publ= HMTGL/crea= srchpaysyouback

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              • James Royal Prickett, Ph.D.
                Since Yahoo will not allow attachments , here is a link to all of this communion preparation information: http://www.pomog.org/communion.shtml Having initially
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 4, 2008
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                  Since Yahoo will not allow attachments , here is a link to all of
                  this communion preparation information:

                  http://www.pomog.org/communion.shtml

                  Having initially discovered this online, and subsequently purchasing
                  the Jordanville Prayer Book, it has brought me to a most blessed
                  appreciation for and experience of communicating. For me this has
                  been a lifelong progression from my early participation in the old
                  Lutheran general confession, to a brief review of a few prayers right
                  before receiving, to some more serious thought about the gravity of
                  receiving Christ that necessitates much prayer, fasting, confession
                  and diligent preparation. Makes sense - we have an opportunity to
                  receive the King!

                  It was obvious that these Russian rules are a lot more strict than
                  what is practiced in the Greek Church to which I belong. But I did
                  find out from some of the older Greeks that they, to used to follow
                  the stricter ways years ago. Fortunately, there seems to be a slow
                  but discernible movement back toward the fuller practices, all of
                  which ostensibly bestow innumerable blessings on the participant.

                  JiMi

                  --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, randall hay
                  <stortford@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > ----By the way, I'll attach a copy of the canons for Communion. The
                  ones to Christ, the Theotokos and Guardian Angel are interwoven
                  (there is a particular way to do three canons together), followed by
                  the canon for Holy Communion and then more pre-Communion
                  prayers....these are the most recent version from the Jordanville
                  Prayer Book (except a few of the ones toward the end are a different
                  translation)---
                  > R.
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message ----
                  > From: "phos_hilarion@..." <phos_hilarion@...>
                  > To: lutheranslookingeast@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 11:39:26 AM
                  > Subject: RE: [LutheransLookingEast] Wisdom?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Thank you Subdeacon Randy for pointing out that the icon predates
                  the heresy. I tried to find the words to The Canon to Our Sweetest
                  Jesus on Myriobiblos. I found an Akathist to our Sweetest Lord Jesus
                  Christ and also a Canon to our Lord Jesus Christ - are either of
                  these the one to which you refer? Forgive me, I'm not very familiar
                  with your liturgy.
                  >
                  > Christopher and Peter, thanks for your answers also. They were very
                  helpful to me.
                  > Love in Christ,
                  > phos
                  >
                • randall hay
                  These rules are particularly strict....more so than any I have ever used. They are good practices, but are not generally mandatory. In fact, after having been
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 4, 2008
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                    These rules are particularly strict....more so than any I have ever used. They are good practices, but are not generally mandatory.

                    In fact, after having been Orthodox ten years and visited a variety of archdioceses and monastery, I have never ever seen the cross brought to people who have communed after the service.

                    The traditional Russian and Serbian practices, in my experience, tend to be more strict than others...I belong to the Bulgarian diocese (under the Bulgarian patriarch) and these things are encouraged but not mandatory, except of course fasting prior to Communion. Confession must be "recent," but that's all.

                    On the other hand there's nothing more heartbreaking than Orthodox who disregard Eucharistic piety entirely....come in late, confess every two years, talk in the Communion line, leave early, etc.

                    The traditional practices of piety should certainly be encouraged, to bring people's spiritual lives forward...preparation can hardly be over-valued. On the other hand I think there's a reason they are not generally mandatory...

                    R.




                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: "James Royal Prickett, Ph.D." <jimi@...>
                    To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2008 7:15:04 AM
                    Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Wisdom?


                    Since Yahoo will not allow attachments , here is a link to all of
                    this communion preparation information:

                    http://www.pomog org/communion. shtml

                    Having initially discovered this online, and subsequently purchasing
                    the Jordanville Prayer Book, it has brought me to a most blessed
                    appreciation for and experience of communicating. For me this has
                    been a lifelong progression from my early participation in the old
                    Lutheran general confession, to a brief review of a few prayers right
                    before receiving, to some more serious thought about the gravity of
                    receiving Christ that necessitates much prayer, fasting, confession
                    and diligent preparation. Makes sense - we have an opportunity to
                    receive the King!

                    It was obvious that these Russian rules are a lot more strict than
                    what is practiced in the Greek Church to which I belong. But I did
                    find out from some of the older Greeks that they, to used to follow
                    the stricter ways years ago. Fortunately, there seems to be a slow
                    but discernible movement back toward the fuller practices, all of
                    which ostensibly bestow innumerable blessings on the participant.

                    JiMi

                    --- In LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com, randall hay
                    <stortford@. ..> wrote:
                    >
                    > ----By the way, I'll attach a copy of the canons for Communion. The
                    ones to Christ, the Theotokos and Guardian Angel are interwoven
                    (there is a particular way to do three canons together), followed by
                    the canon for Holy Communion and then more pre-Communion
                    prayers....these are the most recent version from the Jordanville
                    Prayer Book (except a few of the ones toward the end are a different
                    translation) ---
                    > R.
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message ----
                    > From: "phos_hilarion@ ..." <phos_hilarion@ ...>
                    > To: lutheranslookingeas t@yahoogroups. com
                    > Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 11:39:26 AM
                    > Subject: RE: [LutheransLookingEa st] Wisdom?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Thank you Subdeacon Randy for pointing out that the icon predates
                    the heresy. I tried to find the words to The Canon to Our Sweetest
                    Jesus on Myriobiblos. I found an Akathist to our Sweetest Lord Jesus
                    Christ and also a Canon to our Lord Jesus Christ - are either of
                    these the one to which you refer? Forgive me, I'm not very familiar
                    with your liturgy.
                    >
                    > Christopher and Peter, thanks for your answers also. They were very
                    helpful to me.
                    > Love in Christ,
                    > phos
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Christopher Orr
                    What s mandatory is what your priest tells you to do, which should be more than nothing and include at least some prayers and fasting for at least the morning
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 4, 2008
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                      What's mandatory is what your priest tells you to do, which should be more
                      than nothing and include at least some prayers and fasting for at least the
                      morning prior to communing - unless there is a health concern that keeps one
                      from fasting (sickness is already fasting; fasting is voluntary 'sickness'
                      and suffering).

                      I fast from bedtime the night before communing and say just the prayers
                      before communion themselves, not the canons. That has been my rule since
                      2001. When I was attending just one OCA parish (rather than splitting
                      between GOA and OCA) I would also only commune if I had attended a
                      preparatory service the evening before, whether Vespers or Vigil, or in the
                      Greek tradition at least Orthros immediately before Liturgy.

                      Christopher


                      On 6/4/08, randall hay <stortford@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > These rules are particularly strict....more so than any I have ever
                      > used. They are good practices, but are not generally mandatory.
                      >
                      > In fact, after having been Orthodox ten years and visited a variety of
                      > archdioceses and monastery, I have never ever seen the cross brought to
                      > people who have communed after the service.
                      >
                      > The traditional Russian and Serbian practices, in my experience, tend to be
                      > more strict than others...I belong to the Bulgarian diocese (under the
                      > Bulgarian patriarch) and these things are encouraged but not mandatory,
                      > except of course fasting prior to Communion. Confession must be "recent,"
                      > but that's all.
                      >
                      > On the other hand there's nothing more heartbreaking than Orthodox who
                      > disregard Eucharistic piety entirely....come in late, confess every two
                      > years, talk in the Communion line, leave early, etc.
                      >
                      > The traditional practices of piety should certainly be encouraged, to bring
                      > people's spiritual lives forward...preparation can hardly be over-valued. On
                      > the other hand I think there's a reason they are not generally mandatory...
                      >
                      > R.
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message ----
                      > From: "James Royal Prickett, Ph.D." <jimi@...<jimi%40k3nrocks.com>
                      > >
                      > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2008 7:15:04 AM
                      > Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Wisdom?
                      >
                      > Since Yahoo will not allow attachments , here is a link to all of
                      > this communion preparation information:
                      >
                      > http://www.pomog org/communion. shtml
                      >
                      > Having initially discovered this online, and subsequently purchasing
                      > the Jordanville Prayer Book, it has brought me to a most blessed
                      > appreciation for and experience of communicating. For me this has
                      > been a lifelong progression from my early participation in the old
                      > Lutheran general confession, to a brief review of a few prayers right
                      > before receiving, to some more serious thought about the gravity of
                      > receiving Christ that necessitates much prayer, fasting, confession
                      > and diligent preparation. Makes sense - we have an opportunity to
                      > receive the King!
                      >
                      > It was obvious that these Russian rules are a lot more strict than
                      > what is practiced in the Greek Church to which I belong. But I did
                      > find out from some of the older Greeks that they, to used to follow
                      > the stricter ways years ago. Fortunately, there seems to be a slow
                      > but discernible movement back toward the fuller practices, all of
                      > which ostensibly bestow innumerable blessings on the participant.
                      >
                      > JiMi
                      >
                      > --- In LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com, randall hay
                      > <stortford@. ..> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > ----By the way, I'll attach a copy of the canons for Communion. The
                      > ones to Christ, the Theotokos and Guardian Angel are interwoven
                      > (there is a particular way to do three canons together), followed by
                      > the canon for Holy Communion and then more pre-Communion
                      > prayers....these are the most recent version from the Jordanville
                      > Prayer Book (except a few of the ones toward the end are a different
                      > translation) ---
                      > > R.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ----- Original Message ----
                      > > From: "phos_hilarion@ ..." <phos_hilarion@ ...>
                      > > To: lutheranslookingeas t@yahoogroups. com
                      > > Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 11:39:26 AM
                      > > Subject: RE: [LutheransLookingEa st] Wisdom?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Thank you Subdeacon Randy for pointing out that the icon predates
                      > the heresy. I tried to find the words to The Canon to Our Sweetest
                      > Jesus on Myriobiblos. I found an Akathist to our Sweetest Lord Jesus
                      > Christ and also a Canon to our Lord Jesus Christ - are either of
                      > these the one to which you refer? Forgive me, I'm not very familiar
                      > with your liturgy.
                      > >
                      > > Christopher and Peter, thanks for your answers also. They were very
                      > helpful to me.
                      > > Love in Christ,
                      > > phos
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      --
                      Christopher Orr
                      917 848 7787 Mobile
                      xcjorr@...


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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