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Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Sermons

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  • Christopher Orr
    *There are very great exceptions to this observation, praise God. (Perhaps they didn t do well in seminary?)* I just wanted to underline this point of David s
    Message 1 of 15 , May 30, 2008
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      *There are very great exceptions to this observation, praise God. (Perhaps
      they didn't do well in seminary?)*

      I just wanted to underline this point of David's and also note that it
      applies to Orthodoxy. What we are talking about here are generalities,
      various 'groups' and individuals will not fit these descriptions.

      While the 'quality' of a particular sermon may vary, the general format,
      content, style, degree of importance, etc. point to how the church views
      itself and the place of the sermon and sacraments overall. While these
      tendencies are not proof or sources, they can be significant signposts as to
      what is going on. A prime example is the development of less traditionally
      liturgical forms of worship and the use of modern art and architecture in
      Western Christian churches over the past 100 years - a similar signpost
      would be the development of wetsern ecclesiastical art during and since the
      Renaissance. Something has been changing. The follow up question is
      whether that change is or has been valid or not as compared with the way the
      Church 'developed' in various ways in the Ante- and Post-Nicene periods.

      Christopher


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Northland Words
      Yes-an essential observation. Thank you. These generalities are only generalities. They may be useful, as I think you suggest, if we regard them more as
      Message 2 of 15 , May 30, 2008
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        Yes-an essential observation. Thank you.



        These generalities are only generalities. They may be useful, as I think
        you suggest, if we regard them more as "signposts" or "symptoms" than as
        anything absolute and definite. A temperature of 102 doesn't mean very much
        in itself, but as one among many symptoms, it may point us to diagnose a
        problem. (What do these symptoms, if accurate, suggest about our Lutheran
        relationship with the God of Love?)



        More to the point (and inherent, I think, in Christopher's observation), a
        diagnosis accurately considering these symptoms can point us to possible
        treatments. Of course, in the end, the signposts always point to the same
        Lord. The treatments are never the cure: we know Who the cure is! And we
        know where to receive Him!



        Thanks,

        Daved



        _____

        From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Orr
        Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 1:07 PM
        To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Sermons



        *There are very great exceptions to this observation, praise God. (Perhaps
        they didn't do well in seminary?)*

        I just wanted to underline this point of David's and also note that it
        applies to Orthodoxy. What we are talking about here are generalities,
        various 'groups' and individuals will not fit these descriptions.

        While the 'quality' of a particular sermon may vary, the general format,
        content, style, degree of importance, etc. point to how the church views
        itself and the place of the sermon and sacraments overall. While these
        tendencies are not proof or sources, they can be significant signposts as to
        what is going on. A prime example is the development of less traditionally
        liturgical forms of worship and the use of modern art and architecture in
        Western Christian churches over the past 100 years - a similar signpost
        would be the development of wetsern ecclesiastical art during and since the
        Renaissance. Something has been changing. The follow up question is
        whether that change is or has been valid or not as compared with the way the
        Church 'developed' in various ways in the Ante- and Post-Nicene periods.

        Christopher

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Christopher Orr
        Well, for me Orthodoxy has pointed to faith in the God Who is Love rather than the God I formulated in my head. Heart vs. Head, but in a way quite different
        Message 3 of 15 , May 30, 2008
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          Well, for me Orthodoxy has pointed to faith in the God Who is Love rather
          than the God I formulated in my head. Heart vs. Head, but in a way quite
          different than how that dialetic works out in Western Christianity (e.g.,
          Confessional vs. Pietist Lutherans; Methodist vs. Anglo-Catholic Anglicans,
          etc.).

          Using the sickness analogy, I would also note that anger is a normal (in our
          fallen state) aspect of the grieving process. However, it is only one of
          many steps and must be passed beyond. It is easy for converts to any faith
          (or lack thereof) to boil their hearts in the anger they are feeling and can
          do more damage in the end than if they simply stayed put in their original
          confession.

          Christopher


          On 5/30/08, Northland Words <NorthlandWords@...> wrote:
          >
          > Yes-an essential observation. Thank you.
          >
          > These generalities are only generalities. They may be useful, as I think
          > you suggest, if we regard them more as "signposts" or "symptoms" than as
          > anything absolute and definite. A temperature of 102 doesn't mean very much
          > in itself, but as one among many symptoms, it may point us to diagnose a
          > problem. (What do these symptoms, if accurate, suggest about our Lutheran
          > relationship with the God of Love?)
          >
          > More to the point (and inherent, I think, in Christopher's observation), a
          > diagnosis accurately considering these symptoms can point us to possible
          > treatments. Of course, in the end, the signposts always point to the same
          > Lord. The treatments are never the cure: we know Who the cure is! And we
          > know where to receive Him!
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Daved
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
          > [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>]
          > On Behalf Of Christopher Orr
          > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 1:07 PM
          > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Sermons
          >
          > *There are very great exceptions to this observation, praise God. (Perhaps
          > they didn't do well in seminary?)*
          >
          > I just wanted to underline this point of David's and also note that it
          > applies to Orthodoxy. What we are talking about here are generalities,
          > various 'groups' and individuals will not fit these descriptions.
          >
          > While the 'quality' of a particular sermon may vary, the general format,
          > content, style, degree of importance, etc. point to how the church views
          > itself and the place of the sermon and sacraments overall. While these
          > tendencies are not proof or sources, they can be significant signposts as
          > to
          > what is going on. A prime example is the development of less traditionally
          > liturgical forms of worship and the use of modern art and architecture in
          > Western Christian churches over the past 100 years - a similar signpost
          > would be the development of wetsern ecclesiastical art during and since the
          > Renaissance. Something has been changing. The follow up question is
          > whether that change is or has been valid or not as compared with the way
          > the
          > Church 'developed' in various ways in the Ante- and Post-Nicene periods.
          >
          > Christopher
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >



          --
          Christopher Orr
          917 848 7787 Mobile
          xcjorr@...


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • phos_hilarion@hotmail.com
          Using the sickness analogy, I would also note that anger is a normal (in our fallen state) aspect of the grieving process. However, it is only one of many
          Message 4 of 15 , May 30, 2008
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            "Using the sickness analogy, I would also note that anger is a normal (in our

            fallen state) aspect of the grieving process. However, it is only one of

            many steps and must be passed beyond. It is easy for converts to any faith

            (or lack thereof) to boil their hearts in the anger they are feeling and can

            do more damage in the end than if they simply stayed put in their original

            confession."

            Those are very wise words, especially for our poor Lutheran ears.
            Continue in your prayers for us.
            Love in Christ,
            phos

            To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
            From: xcjorr@...
            Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 14:50:08 -0400
            Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Sermons




















            Well, for me Orthodoxy has pointed to faith in the God Who is Love rather

            than the God I formulated in my head. Heart vs. Head, but in a way quite

            different than how that dialetic works out in Western Christianity (e.g.,

            Confessional vs. Pietist Lutherans; Methodist vs. Anglo-Catholic Anglicans,

            etc.).



            Using the sickness analogy, I would also note that anger is a normal (in our

            fallen state) aspect of the grieving process. However, it is only one of

            many steps and must be passed beyond. It is easy for converts to any faith

            (or lack thereof) to boil their hearts in the anger they are feeling and can

            do more damage in the end than if they simply stayed put in their original

            confession.



            Christopher



            On 5/30/08, Northland Words <NorthlandWords@...> wrote:

            >

            > Yes-an essential observation. Thank you.

            >

            > These generalities are only generalities. They may be useful, as I think

            > you suggest, if we regard them more as "signposts" or "symptoms" than as

            > anything absolute and definite. A temperature of 102 doesn't mean very much

            > in itself, but as one among many symptoms, it may point us to diagnose a

            > problem. (What do these symptoms, if accurate, suggest about our Lutheran

            > relationship with the God of Love?)

            >

            > More to the point (and inherent, I think, in Christopher's observation), a

            > diagnosis accurately considering these symptoms can point us to possible

            > treatments. Of course, in the end, the signposts always point to the same

            > Lord. The treatments are never the cure: we know Who the cure is! And we

            > know where to receive Him!

            >

            > Thanks,

            >

            > Daved

            >

            > _____

            >

            > From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>

            > [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>]

            > On Behalf Of Christopher Orr

            > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 1:07 PM

            > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>

            > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Sermons

            >

            > *There are very great exceptions to this observation, praise God. (Perhaps

            > they didn't do well in seminary?)*

            >

            > I just wanted to underline this point of David's and also note that it

            > applies to Orthodoxy. What we are talking about here are generalities,

            > various 'groups' and individuals will not fit these descriptions.

            >

            > While the 'quality' of a particular sermon may vary, the general format,

            > content, style, degree of importance, etc. point to how the church views

            > itself and the place of the sermon and sacraments overall. While these

            > tendencies are not proof or sources, they can be significant signposts as

            > to

            > what is going on. A prime example is the development of less traditionally

            > liturgical forms of worship and the use of modern art and architecture in

            > Western Christian churches over the past 100 years - a similar signpost

            > would be the development of wetsern ecclesiastical art during and since the

            > Renaissance. Something has been changing. The follow up question is

            > whether that change is or has been valid or not as compared with the way

            > the

            > Church 'developed' in various ways in the Ante- and Post-Nicene periods.

            >

            > Christopher

            >

            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            >

            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            >

            >

            >



            --

            Christopher Orr

            917 848 7787 Mobile

            xcjorr@...



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
























            _________________________________________________________________
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • James Royal Prickett, Ph.D.
            Here is a link to the written homilies of Fr. David Moser (ROCOR) of Boise, Idaho: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/propoved/ jr ... but I hadn t had luck in
            Message 5 of 15 , May 31, 2008
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              Here is a link to the written homilies of Fr. David Moser (ROCOR) of
              Boise, Idaho:

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/propoved/

              jr

              --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, <phos_hilarion@...>
              wrote:
              >
              >
              > Thanks everyone!
              > Among Lutherans it's common to find written sermons posted online
              but I hadn't had luck in finding many Orthodox sermons. If they don't
              write out their manuscripts that explains why. I suppose I should be
              looking for podcasts instead. I have listened to Fr. Hopko via
              podcast before and enjoyed it.
              >
              > Rosemarie, you're right on when you say that Lutheran sermons don't
              discuss Love so much. Orthodox sermons are always talking about Love -
              I also observe that the *Orthodox* are always talking about Love,
              it's in the way you live and breathe it seems. It's what I find most
              attractive about Orthodoxy.
              >
              > Peter, that sounds like the best compliment one could get! :)
              >
              > Christopher, "My local imam's sermons are far, far superior." - Are
              you sure you ended up in the right building? ;) What is a
              baladachine? Interesting & apt point about what the architecture
              stresses as being the most important.
              >
              > Love in Christ,
              > your little phos
              >
              > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
              > From: rose.lieffring@...
              > Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 22:18:13 -0400
              > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Sermons
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > I was thinking on this a bit more during my drive home
              from work tonight and
              >
              > there was one very obvious difference in the sermons that I recall
              when I
              >
              > first started attending the Orthodox Church. Orthodox sermons are
              always
              >
              > talking about Love. Love within the Trinity, Love of God for us,
              our love
              >
              > for neighbor. The priest asks a leading question and the answer is
              Love.
              >
              > Always encouragement about this communion of Love. The Lutheran
              sermons I
              >
              > was familiar with didn't discuss Love so much.
              >
              >
              >
              > In fact I was listening to a AFR podcast of Father Thomas Hopko's
              while
              >
              > driving and it wasn't but a few minutes after this thought came to
              me when
              >
              > and sure enough...he started talking about love!
              >
              >
              >
              > On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Rosemarie Lieffring <
              >
              > rose.lieffring@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > > My priest does as Christopher's experience offers. He reads
              some, prays,
              >
              > > makes some notes. I asked him about prepared sermons and he said
              he speaks
              >
              > > to the people who are there so he isn't really tied to a word for
              >
              > > word prepared text. Quite honestly, he expects the Holy Spirit
              to guide him
              >
              > > and from my vantage point, he is not left unaided.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > I think the sermons are different. Lutheran sermons are Lutheran
              and the
              >
              > > Law and Gospel are intentionally and precisely separated. That
              been my
              >
              > > experience in Orthodox sermons. The focus on a formula of first
              terrorizing
              >
              > > consciences with Law and then soothing them with Gospel just
              isn't there.
              >
              > > I suspect my priest's sermon would fail the Wilken diagnostic.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > When I took my Lutheran Lay Ministry studies I was taught that
              Word and
              >
              > > Sacrament are equal means of grace but in the Orthodox Church the
              focus of
              >
              > > the Divine Liturgy is on Christ in the Eucharist as Christopher
              pointed
              >
              > > out. So...there is a difference then in theology/formula and in
              importance
              >
              > > (priority) of the sermon which is I would expect to be detectable
              to the
              >
              > > listener.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Don't some of the Orthodox priests have sermon podcasts? Could
              anyone
              >
              > > recommend some representative ones to phos?-----R
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > On 5/29/08, BPeter Brandt-Sorheim <donpedrogordo@...> wrote:
              >
              > >>
              >
              > >> I vote for sermons that apply the gospel of the day.
              >
              > >>
              >
              > >> At school someone dissed me for giving a short sermon that was
              too much
              >
              > >> like a patristic reading. I took it as a compliment despite the
              intended
              >
              > >> put-down. Peter
              >
              > >>
              >
              > >>
              >
              > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > >>
              >
              > >>
              >
              > >>
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _________________________________________________________________
              > E-mail for the greater good. Join the i'm Initiative from Microsoft.
              > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_
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              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • orthogrammy
              http://www.dynamispublications.org/ DYNAMIS! A publication of St. George Orthodox Christian Cathedral Wichita, KS St. John 9:1-38 (6/1) CHRIST IS RISEN!
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 1, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                http://www.dynamispublications.org/

                DYNAMIS!
                A publication of St. George Orthodox Christian Cathedral
                Wichita, KS

                St. John 9:1-38 (6/1) CHRIST IS RISEN! Gospel, Sunday of the
                Blindman: 6th of Pascha



                Open and Closed Minds: St. John 9:1-38, especially vs. 24: "Give God
                the glory! We know that this Man is a sinner." Trying to hold a
                heart to heart conversation with someone who has all of life's
                mysteries `answered,' considers every question `settled,' and brushes
                away new insights with determined conclusions is both disappointing
                and enervating. By contrast, talking when others will freely examine
                life's basic questions, share from the heart, and look forward to
                learning from every conversation, energizes, lifts, and builds up the
                soul.

                In this present passage, the Pharisees' reactions to the healing of
                the man born blind exemplify classic, stubborn resistance to open
                dialog. Rather than welcome the man's healing as a sign of God's
                presence, they grew more adamant in opposition and argumentative
                concerning the Lord Jesus (vs. 22). The man who was healed, by
                contrast, exemplifies a heart and mind open to dialog and appreciative
                of God's mysterious workings in the world. Notice six ways the
                Pharisees defended against new truth even as the healed man embraced
                truth and Truth Himself.

                1) In accusing the Lord of violating the Sabbath (vs. 16), some of the
                Pharisees closed themselves off from the joy of the healing, though
                others of them could not accept their reasonings (Jn. 9:16). The one
                who was healed said, "He is a prophet" (vs. 17). Both in experience
                and by conclusion, he testified to God. "O taste and see that the
                Lord is good" (Ps. 33:8).

                2) The Pharisees sought to explain away what had happened by
                questioning a healing visible for all to see and by impugning the
                honesty of the witnesses: "Is this your son,who you say was born
                blind? How then does he now see?" (vs. 19). Here alone, three
                different attacks are made, but plain truth and simple replies force
                them to abandon their earlier approach

                3) "The Jews had agreed already that if anyone confessed...he would be
                put out of the synagogue" (vs. 22), exposes the hidden motives behind
                their persistent interrogation associated with the healing - the
                threat of social banishment. The man's parents rightly referred them
                to the man himself. The newly sighted man spoke for himself and God -
                and quite capably.

                4) "Labeling" is a tried and true method of intimidation to silence
                the truth. Notice that Jesus is called a "sinner" but no
                substantiating evidence is offered. In addition, they take the role
                of `impeccable' authority. Note the emphatic "we" (vs. 24),
                grammatically underscored in the original. The Jews retreated into
                "specialist" knowledge in order to assert a "truth" with no basis in
                fact - a familiar ploy: "Science has shown...," "All the evidence
                proves...," "Those who have looked into the matter know...." On the
                other hand, the blind man brushes aside all these tactics and plainly
                states the facts. "...though I was blind, now I see" (vs. 25).

                5) When it became clear that all the Pharisees tactics were failing,
                the Lord's opponents resorted to discrediting the witness himself.
                "You are His disciple, but we are Moses' disciples" (vs. 28). They
                also appeal to "higher" authorities and attempt to "expose" the facts
                of the case as worthless. They even attribute prejudice to the man
                who had been healed! The man's reply is a classic example of one who
                is growing in strength as he is attacked for his faith. He easily
                reaches the conclusion they reject: "If this man were not from God, He
                could do nothing" (vs. 33). They in turn continue to impugn the
                healed man's worth as a person (vs. 34).

                6) Finally, the Jews take the "ultimate" resort of the implacably
                self-assured: they thrust the man away from them rather than face his
                truth (vs. 34). When the man was thus rejected the Lord came to him
                and revealed Himself as God. Of course, the man worshiped Him (vs. 38).

                Illumine our hearts, O Master Who loveth mankind, with the pure light
                of divine knowledge, and open the eyes of our minds to the
                understanding of Thy Gospel teachings.

                Return to the June Calendar

                --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "James Royal Prickett,
                Ph.D." <jimi@...> wrote:
                >
                > Here is a link to the written homilies of Fr. David Moser (ROCOR) of
                > Boise, Idaho:
                >
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/propoved/
                >
                > jr
                >
                > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, <phos_hilarion@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > Thanks everyone!
                > > Among Lutherans it's common to find written sermons posted online
                > but I hadn't had luck in finding many Orthodox sermons. If they don't
                > write out their manuscripts that explains why. I suppose I should be
                > looking for podcasts instead. I have listened to Fr. Hopko via
                > podcast before and enjoyed it.
                > >
                > > Rosemarie, you're right on when you say that Lutheran sermons don't
                > discuss Love so much. Orthodox sermons are always talking about Love -
                > I also observe that the *Orthodox* are always talking about Love,
                > it's in the way you live and breathe it seems. It's what I find most
                > attractive about Orthodoxy.
                > >
                > > Peter, that sounds like the best compliment one could get! :)
                > >
                > > Christopher, "My local imam's sermons are far, far superior." - Are
                > you sure you ended up in the right building? ;) What is a
                > baladachine? Interesting & apt point about what the architecture
                > stresses as being the most important.
                > >
                > > Love in Christ,
                > > your little phos
                > >
                > > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                > > From: rose.lieffring@
                > > Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 22:18:13 -0400
                > > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Sermons
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I was thinking on this a bit more during my drive home
                > from work tonight and
                > >
                > > there was one very obvious difference in the sermons that I recall
                > when I
                > >
                > > first started attending the Orthodox Church. Orthodox sermons are
                > always
                > >
                > > talking about Love. Love within the Trinity, Love of God for us,
                > our love
                > >
                > > for neighbor. The priest asks a leading question and the answer is
                > Love.
                > >
                > > Always encouragement about this communion of Love. The Lutheran
                > sermons I
                > >
                > > was familiar with didn't discuss Love so much.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > In fact I was listening to a AFR podcast of Father Thomas Hopko's
                > while
                > >
                > > driving and it wasn't but a few minutes after this thought came to
                > me when
                > >
                > > and sure enough...he started talking about love!
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Rosemarie Lieffring <
                > >
                > > rose.lieffring@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > > My priest does as Christopher's experience offers. He reads
                > some, prays,
                > >
                > > > makes some notes. I asked him about prepared sermons and he said
                > he speaks
                > >
                > > > to the people who are there so he isn't really tied to a word for
                > >
                > > > word prepared text. Quite honestly, he expects the Holy Spirit
                > to guide him
                > >
                > > > and from my vantage point, he is not left unaided.
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > > I think the sermons are different. Lutheran sermons are Lutheran
                > and the
                > >
                > > > Law and Gospel are intentionally and precisely separated. That
                > been my
                > >
                > > > experience in Orthodox sermons. The focus on a formula of first
                > terrorizing
                > >
                > > > consciences with Law and then soothing them with Gospel just
                > isn't there.
                > >
                > > > I suspect my priest's sermon would fail the Wilken diagnostic.
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > > When I took my Lutheran Lay Ministry studies I was taught that
                > Word and
                > >
                > > > Sacrament are equal means of grace but in the Orthodox Church the
                > focus of
                > >
                > > > the Divine Liturgy is on Christ in the Eucharist as Christopher
                > pointed
                > >
                > > > out. So...there is a difference then in theology/formula and in
                > importance
                > >
                > > > (priority) of the sermon which is I would expect to be detectable
                > to the
                > >
                > > > listener.
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > > Don't some of the Orthodox priests have sermon podcasts? Could
                > anyone
                > >
                > > > recommend some representative ones to phos?-----R
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > > On 5/29/08, BPeter Brandt-Sorheim <donpedrogordo@> wrote:
                > >
                > > >>
                > >
                > > >> I vote for sermons that apply the gospel of the day.
                > >
                > > >>
                > >
                > > >> At school someone dissed me for giving a short sermon that was
                > too much
                > >
                > > >> like a patristic reading. I took it as a compliment despite the
                > intended
                > >
                > > >> put-down. Peter
                > >
                > > >>
                > >
                > > >>
                > >
                > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > > >>
                > >
                > > >>
                > >
                > > >>
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > _________________________________________________________________
                > > E-mail for the greater good. Join the i'm Initiative from Microsoft.
                > > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_
                > GreaterGood
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
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