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Orthodox Sermons

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  • phos_hilarion@hotmail.com
    How do you think Orthodox and Lutheran sermons differ? I ve heard the critique that Lutheran sermons are better (but then again, that was from a Lutheran)
    Message 1 of 15 , May 29, 2008
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      How do you think Orthodox and Lutheran sermons differ? I've heard the critique that Lutheran sermons are better (but then again, that was from a Lutheran) especially because Lutheran sermons focus on law and gospel.

      Love in Christ,
      phos

      _________________________________________________________________
      E-mail for the greater good. Join the i�m Initiative from Microsoft.
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Christopher Orr
      I find both Lutheran and Orthodox sermons to be lacking due to their not discussing the Koran enough. My local imam s sermons are far, far superior. I have
      Message 2 of 15 , May 29, 2008
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        I find both Lutheran and Orthodox sermons to be lacking due to their not
        discussing the Koran enough. My local imam's sermons are far, far superior.

        I have found that Lutheran sermons are far more crafted moving from point to
        point to prove a point, to logically, rationally reach a position. I have
        rarely seen an Orthodox priest read from a prepared text. I have seen
        priests refer to notes, points or quotations, but rarely a text. I have
        heard priests say that they read and study during the week, note the
        liturgical hymns of the Church for the day, feast, season, etc., perhaps
        read commentary in the Fathers (ancient or modern) and then they pray, pick
        up the cross and open their mouths.

        It should be noted that a sermon is not 'required' at a Divine Liturgy and I
        have never heard one at a Liturgy at a monastery apart from when many laity
        may be visiting or members of the Sunday 'parish' community. The focus of
        the Liturgy is meeting Christ Himself in the Eucharist, not in having one of
        His servants tell us about him. One doesn't invite a friend to describe you
        to your date.

        The difference between Orthodox and Lutheran can be seen in its
        architecture. The pulpit is normally minimal in a traditional Orthodox
        temple whereas the altar and baladachine, and the windows into heaven
        (iconostasis) predominate in an Orthodox church.

        Christopher


        On 5/29/08, phos_hilarion@... <phos_hilarion@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > How do you think Orthodox and Lutheran sermons differ? I've heard the
        > critique that Lutheran sermons are better (but then again, that was from a
        > Lutheran) especially because Lutheran sermons focus on law and gospel.
        >
        > Love in Christ,
        > phos
        >
        > _________________________________________________________________
        > E-mail for the greater good. Join the i'm Initiative from Microsoft.
        > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_GreaterGood
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >


        --
        Christopher Orr
        917 848 7787 Mobile
        xcjorr@...


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • BPeter Brandt-Sorheim
        I vote for sermons that apply the gospel of the day. At school someone dissed me for giving a short sermon that was too much like a patristic reading. I took
        Message 3 of 15 , May 29, 2008
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          I vote for sermons that apply the gospel of the day.

          At school someone dissed me for giving a short sermon that was too much like a patristic reading. I took it as a compliment despite the intended put-down. Peter




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Rosemarie Lieffring
          My priest does as Christopher s experience offers. He reads some, prays, makes some notes. I asked him about prepared sermons and he said he speaks to the
          Message 4 of 15 , May 29, 2008
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            My priest does as Christopher's experience offers. He reads some, prays,
            makes some notes. I asked him about prepared sermons and he said he speaks
            to the people who are there so he isn't really tied to a word for
            word prepared text. Quite honestly, he expects the Holy Spirit to guide him
            and from my vantage point, he is not left unaided.

            I think the sermons are different. Lutheran sermons are Lutheran and the
            Law and Gospel are intentionally and precisely separated. That hasn't been
            my experience in Orthodox sermons. The focus on a formula of
            first terrorizing consciences with Law and then soothing them with Gospel
            just isn't there. I suspect my priest's sermon would fail the Wilken
            diagnostic.

            When I took my Lutheran Lay Ministry studies I was taught that Word and
            Sacrament are equal means of grace but in the Orthodox Church the focus of
            the Divine Liturgy is on Christ in the Eucharist as Christopher pointed
            out. So...there is a difference then in theology/formula and in importance
            (priority) of the sermon which is I would expect to be detectable to the
            listener.

            Don't some of the Orthodox priests have sermon podcasts? Could anyone
            recommend some representative ones to phos?-----R


            On 5/29/08, BPeter Brandt-Sorheim <donpedrogordo@...> wrote:
            >
            > I vote for sermons that apply the gospel of the day.
            >
            > At school someone dissed me for giving a short sermon that was too much
            > like a patristic reading. I took it as a compliment despite the intended
            > put-down. Peter
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rosemarie Lieffring
            I was thinking on this a bit more during my drive home from work tonight and there was one very obvious difference in the sermons that I recall when I first
            Message 5 of 15 , May 29, 2008
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              I was thinking on this a bit more during my drive home from work tonight and
              there was one very obvious difference in the sermons that I recall when I
              first started attending the Orthodox Church. Orthodox sermons are always
              talking about Love. Love within the Trinity, Love of God for us, our love
              for neighbor. The priest asks a leading question and the answer is Love.
              Always encouragement about this communion of Love. The Lutheran sermons I
              was familiar with didn't discuss Love so much.

              In fact I was listening to a AFR podcast of Father Thomas Hopko's while
              driving and it wasn't but a few minutes after this thought came to me when
              and sure enough...he started talking about love!

              On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Rosemarie Lieffring <
              rose.lieffring@...> wrote:

              > My priest does as Christopher's experience offers. He reads some, prays,
              > makes some notes. I asked him about prepared sermons and he said he speaks
              > to the people who are there so he isn't really tied to a word for
              > word prepared text. Quite honestly, he expects the Holy Spirit to guide him
              > and from my vantage point, he is not left unaided.
              >
              > I think the sermons are different. Lutheran sermons are Lutheran and the
              > Law and Gospel are intentionally and precisely separated. That been my
              > experience in Orthodox sermons. The focus on a formula of first terrorizing
              > consciences with Law and then soothing them with Gospel just isn't there.
              > I suspect my priest's sermon would fail the Wilken diagnostic.
              >
              > When I took my Lutheran Lay Ministry studies I was taught that Word and
              > Sacrament are equal means of grace but in the Orthodox Church the focus of
              > the Divine Liturgy is on Christ in the Eucharist as Christopher pointed
              > out. So...there is a difference then in theology/formula and in importance
              > (priority) of the sermon which is I would expect to be detectable to the
              > listener.
              >
              > Don't some of the Orthodox priests have sermon podcasts? Could anyone
              > recommend some representative ones to phos?-----R
              >
              >
              > On 5/29/08, BPeter Brandt-Sorheim <donpedrogordo@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> I vote for sermons that apply the gospel of the day.
              >>
              >> At school someone dissed me for giving a short sermon that was too much
              >> like a patristic reading. I took it as a compliment despite the intended
              >> put-down. Peter
              >>
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Dave @¿@¬
              Howdy! In my VERY LIMITED experience, Orthodox sermons are much shorter! My priest usually gives a short sermon on either a text of the day or a saint of the
              Message 6 of 15 , May 30, 2008
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                Howdy!

                In my VERY LIMITED experience,
                Orthodox sermons are much shorter!

                My priest usually gives a short sermon on either
                a text of the day or a saint of the day.
              • phos_hilarion@hotmail.com
                Thanks everyone! Among Lutherans it s common to find written sermons posted online but I hadn t had luck in finding many Orthodox sermons. If they don t write
                Message 7 of 15 , May 30, 2008
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                  Thanks everyone!
                  Among Lutherans it's common to find written sermons posted online but I hadn't had luck in finding many Orthodox sermons. If they don't write out their manuscripts that explains why. I suppose I should be looking for podcasts instead. I have listened to Fr. Hopko via podcast before and enjoyed it.

                  Rosemarie, you're right on when you say that Lutheran sermons don't discuss Love so much. Orthodox sermons are always talking about Love - I also observe that the *Orthodox* are always talking about Love, it's in the way you live and breathe it seems. It's what I find most attractive about Orthodoxy.

                  Peter, that sounds like the best compliment one could get! :)

                  Christopher, "My local imam's sermons are far, far superior." - Are you sure you ended up in the right building? ;) What is a baladachine? Interesting & apt point about what the architecture stresses as being the most important.

                  Love in Christ,
                  your little phos

                  To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                  From: rose.lieffring@...
                  Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 22:18:13 -0400
                  Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Sermons




















                  I was thinking on this a bit more during my drive home from work tonight and

                  there was one very obvious difference in the sermons that I recall when I

                  first started attending the Orthodox Church. Orthodox sermons are always

                  talking about Love. Love within the Trinity, Love of God for us, our love

                  for neighbor. The priest asks a leading question and the answer is Love.

                  Always encouragement about this communion of Love. The Lutheran sermons I

                  was familiar with didn't discuss Love so much.



                  In fact I was listening to a AFR podcast of Father Thomas Hopko's while

                  driving and it wasn't but a few minutes after this thought came to me when

                  and sure enough...he started talking about love!



                  On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Rosemarie Lieffring <

                  rose.lieffring@...> wrote:



                  > My priest does as Christopher's experience offers. He reads some, prays,

                  > makes some notes. I asked him about prepared sermons and he said he speaks

                  > to the people who are there so he isn't really tied to a word for

                  > word prepared text. Quite honestly, he expects the Holy Spirit to guide him

                  > and from my vantage point, he is not left unaided.

                  >

                  > I think the sermons are different. Lutheran sermons are Lutheran and the

                  > Law and Gospel are intentionally and precisely separated. That been my

                  > experience in Orthodox sermons. The focus on a formula of first terrorizing

                  > consciences with Law and then soothing them with Gospel just isn't there.

                  > I suspect my priest's sermon would fail the Wilken diagnostic.

                  >

                  > When I took my Lutheran Lay Ministry studies I was taught that Word and

                  > Sacrament are equal means of grace but in the Orthodox Church the focus of

                  > the Divine Liturgy is on Christ in the Eucharist as Christopher pointed

                  > out. So...there is a difference then in theology/formula and in importance

                  > (priority) of the sermon which is I would expect to be detectable to the

                  > listener.

                  >

                  > Don't some of the Orthodox priests have sermon podcasts? Could anyone

                  > recommend some representative ones to phos?-----R

                  >

                  >

                  > On 5/29/08, BPeter Brandt-Sorheim <donpedrogordo@...> wrote:

                  >>

                  >> I vote for sermons that apply the gospel of the day.

                  >>

                  >> At school someone dissed me for giving a short sermon that was too much

                  >> like a patristic reading. I took it as a compliment despite the intended

                  >> put-down. Peter

                  >>

                  >>

                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >>

                  >>

                  >>

                  >

                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
























                  _________________________________________________________________
                  E-mail for the greater good. Join the i�m Initiative from Microsoft.
                  http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_ GreaterGood

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Northland Words
                  As a still-Lutheran east-looker, I am struck by the accuracy of this observation. And by how sad that fact is. We standing-firm conservative Lutherans
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 30, 2008
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                    As a still-Lutheran "east-looker," I am struck by the accuracy of this
                    observation. And by how sad that fact is.



                    We "standing-firm" conservative Lutherans tend to be far more concerned with
                    defining the ways in which we are differentiated from everyone else than we
                    are with proclaiming the love of our living Savior. Our Lutheran suspicion
                    of the Holy Spirit, infected by legal niggling about 500-year-old arguments
                    (we call this confessional Lutheranism), often causes us to lecture about
                    carefully developed rational syllogisms (often called catechesis), rather
                    than describing the actual omnipotence of Love. (We believe in love, as a
                    doctrinal statement-we're just leery of it when it actually happens. Just
                    as we believe that the Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity-as long as He
                    doesn't actually do anything.)



                    And since a great many of our flocks have been catechized into the apathy
                    which is the hallmark of our precisely-defined creed, we tend to care very
                    little, one way or another, about what goes on in the pulpits, as long as
                    what is said there doesn't particularly invade the non-religious areas of
                    our lives (which tend to be very large). And we are not very often
                    disappointed in this hope. Our pastors, freed from the encumbrance of alert
                    congregations, often seem to us lay people to be more concerned with
                    pleasing each other, or with pleasing their seminary professors (and passing
                    the Wilkens diagnostic?), than they are with feeding us sheep. Not that we
                    Lutherans, in our non-somnambulant moments, want ear-tickling pleasantries
                    from our pulpits-but that our souls thirst for God, for the living God-where
                    can we go and meet with our God?



                    Yes, by all means-even the paltry academic lectures which often pass for
                    Lutheran sermons can't dissipate that powerful love of the living Christ in
                    the eucharist! Praise Him!



                    There are very great exceptions to this observation, praise God. (Perhaps
                    they didn't do well in seminary?)



                    Daved



                    _____

                    From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rosemarie
                    Lieffring
                    Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:18 PM
                    To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Sermons



                    I was thinking on this a bit more during my drive home from work tonight and
                    there was one very obvious difference in the sermons that I recall when I
                    first started attending the Orthodox Church. Orthodox sermons are always
                    talking about Love. Love within the Trinity, Love of God for us, our love
                    for neighbor. The priest asks a leading question and the answer is Love.
                    Always encouragement about this communion of Love. The Lutheran sermons I
                    was familiar with didn't discuss Love so much.

                    In fact I was listening to a AFR podcast of Father Thomas Hopko's while
                    driving and it wasn't but a few minutes after this thought came to me when
                    and sure enough...he started talking about love!

                    On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Rosemarie Lieffring <
                    rose.lieffring@ <mailto:rose.lieffring%40gmail.com> gmail.com> wrote:

                    > My priest does as Christopher's experience offers. He reads some, prays,
                    > makes some notes. I asked him about prepared sermons and he said he speaks
                    > to the people who are there so he isn't really tied to a word for
                    > word prepared text. Quite honestly, he expects the Holy Spirit to guide
                    him
                    > and from my vantage point, he is not left unaided.
                    >
                    > I think the sermons are different. Lutheran sermons are Lutheran and the
                    > Law and Gospel are intentionally and precisely separated. That been my
                    > experience in Orthodox sermons. The focus on a formula of first
                    terrorizing
                    > consciences with Law and then soothing them with Gospel just isn't there.
                    > I suspect my priest's sermon would fail the Wilken diagnostic.
                    >
                    > When I took my Lutheran Lay Ministry studies I was taught that Word and
                    > Sacrament are equal means of grace but in the Orthodox Church the focus of
                    > the Divine Liturgy is on Christ in the Eucharist as Christopher pointed
                    > out. So...there is a difference then in theology/formula and in importance
                    > (priority) of the sermon which is I would expect to be detectable to the
                    > listener.
                    >
                    > Don't some of the Orthodox priests have sermon podcasts? Could anyone
                    > recommend some representative ones to phos?-----R
                    >
                    >
                    > On 5/29/08, BPeter Brandt-Sorheim <donpedrogordo@
                    <mailto:donpedrogordo%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> wrote:
                    >>
                    >> I vote for sermons that apply the gospel of the day.
                    >>
                    >> At school someone dissed me for giving a short sermon that was too much
                    >> like a patristic reading. I took it as a compliment despite the intended
                    >> put-down. Peter
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Christopher Orr
                    Baldaccino: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02217c.htm (RC source) Well, the traditional style of a mosque is actually the traditional style of an Eastern
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 30, 2008
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                      Baldaccino: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02217c.htm (RC source)

                      Well, the traditional style of a mosque is actually the traditional style of
                      an Eastern Christian church taken over by the Muslims (e.g., Hagia Sophia in
                      Istanbul).

                      Christopher


                      On 5/30/08, phos_hilarion@... <phos_hilarion@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks everyone!
                      > Among Lutherans it's common to find written sermons posted online but I
                      > hadn't had luck in finding many Orthodox sermons. If they don't write out
                      > their manuscripts that explains why. I suppose I should be looking for
                      > podcasts instead. I have listened to Fr. Hopko via podcast before and
                      > enjoyed it.
                      >
                      > Rosemarie, you're right on when you say that Lutheran sermons don't discuss
                      > Love so much. Orthodox sermons are always talking about Love - I also
                      > observe that the *Orthodox* are always talking about Love, it's in the way
                      > you live and breathe it seems. It's what I find most attractive about
                      > Orthodoxy.
                      >
                      > Peter, that sounds like the best compliment one could get! :)
                      >
                      > Christopher, "My local imam's sermons are far, far superior." - Are you
                      > sure you ended up in the right building? ;) What is a baladachine?
                      > Interesting & apt point about what the architecture stresses as being the
                      > most important.
                      >
                      > Love in Christ,
                      > your little phos
                      >
                      > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                      > From: rose.lieffring@...
                      > Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 22:18:13 -0400
                      > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Sermons
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I was thinking on this a bit more during my drive home from work
                      > tonight and
                      >
                      > there was one very obvious difference in the sermons that I recall when I
                      >
                      > first started attending the Orthodox Church. Orthodox sermons are always
                      >
                      > talking about Love. Love within the Trinity, Love of God for us, our love
                      >
                      > for neighbor. The priest asks a leading question and the answer is Love.
                      >
                      > Always encouragement about this communion of Love. The Lutheran sermons I
                      >
                      > was familiar with didn't discuss Love so much.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > In fact I was listening to a AFR podcast of Father Thomas Hopko's while
                      >
                      > driving and it wasn't but a few minutes after this thought came to me when
                      >
                      > and sure enough...he started talking about love!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Rosemarie Lieffring <
                      >
                      > rose.lieffring@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > > My priest does as Christopher's experience offers. He reads some, prays,
                      >
                      > > makes some notes. I asked him about prepared sermons and he said he
                      > speaks
                      >
                      > > to the people who are there so he isn't really tied to a word for
                      >
                      > > word prepared text. Quite honestly, he expects the Holy Spirit to guide
                      > him
                      >
                      > > and from my vantage point, he is not left unaided.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > I think the sermons are different. Lutheran sermons are Lutheran and the
                      >
                      > > Law and Gospel are intentionally and precisely separated. That been my
                      >
                      > > experience in Orthodox sermons. The focus on a formula of first
                      > terrorizing
                      >
                      > > consciences with Law and then soothing them with Gospel just isn't there.
                      >
                      > > I suspect my priest's sermon would fail the Wilken diagnostic.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > When I took my Lutheran Lay Ministry studies I was taught that Word and
                      >
                      > > Sacrament are equal means of grace but in the Orthodox Church the focus
                      > of
                      >
                      > > the Divine Liturgy is on Christ in the Eucharist as Christopher pointed
                      >
                      > > out. So...there is a difference then in theology/formula and in
                      > importance
                      >
                      > > (priority) of the sermon which is I would expect to be detectable to the
                      >
                      > > listener.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > Don't some of the Orthodox priests have sermon podcasts? Could anyone
                      >
                      > > recommend some representative ones to phos?-----R
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > On 5/29/08, BPeter Brandt-Sorheim <donpedrogordo@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > >>
                      >
                      > >> I vote for sermons that apply the gospel of the day.
                      >
                      > >>
                      >
                      > >> At school someone dissed me for giving a short sermon that was too much
                      >
                      > >> like a patristic reading. I took it as a compliment despite the intended
                      >
                      > >> put-down. Peter
                      >
                      > >>
                      >
                      > >>
                      >
                      > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > >>
                      >
                      > >>
                      >
                      > >>
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _________________________________________________________________
                      > E-mail for the greater good. Join the i'm Initiative from Microsoft.
                      > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_GreaterGood
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      --
                      Christopher Orr
                      917 848 7787 Mobile
                      xcjorr@...


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Christopher Orr
                      *There are very great exceptions to this observation, praise God. (Perhaps they didn t do well in seminary?)* I just wanted to underline this point of David s
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 30, 2008
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                        *There are very great exceptions to this observation, praise God. (Perhaps
                        they didn't do well in seminary?)*

                        I just wanted to underline this point of David's and also note that it
                        applies to Orthodoxy. What we are talking about here are generalities,
                        various 'groups' and individuals will not fit these descriptions.

                        While the 'quality' of a particular sermon may vary, the general format,
                        content, style, degree of importance, etc. point to how the church views
                        itself and the place of the sermon and sacraments overall. While these
                        tendencies are not proof or sources, they can be significant signposts as to
                        what is going on. A prime example is the development of less traditionally
                        liturgical forms of worship and the use of modern art and architecture in
                        Western Christian churches over the past 100 years - a similar signpost
                        would be the development of wetsern ecclesiastical art during and since the
                        Renaissance. Something has been changing. The follow up question is
                        whether that change is or has been valid or not as compared with the way the
                        Church 'developed' in various ways in the Ante- and Post-Nicene periods.

                        Christopher


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Northland Words
                        Yes-an essential observation. Thank you. These generalities are only generalities. They may be useful, as I think you suggest, if we regard them more as
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 30, 2008
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                          Yes-an essential observation. Thank you.



                          These generalities are only generalities. They may be useful, as I think
                          you suggest, if we regard them more as "signposts" or "symptoms" than as
                          anything absolute and definite. A temperature of 102 doesn't mean very much
                          in itself, but as one among many symptoms, it may point us to diagnose a
                          problem. (What do these symptoms, if accurate, suggest about our Lutheran
                          relationship with the God of Love?)



                          More to the point (and inherent, I think, in Christopher's observation), a
                          diagnosis accurately considering these symptoms can point us to possible
                          treatments. Of course, in the end, the signposts always point to the same
                          Lord. The treatments are never the cure: we know Who the cure is! And we
                          know where to receive Him!



                          Thanks,

                          Daved



                          _____

                          From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                          [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Orr
                          Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 1:07 PM
                          To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Sermons



                          *There are very great exceptions to this observation, praise God. (Perhaps
                          they didn't do well in seminary?)*

                          I just wanted to underline this point of David's and also note that it
                          applies to Orthodoxy. What we are talking about here are generalities,
                          various 'groups' and individuals will not fit these descriptions.

                          While the 'quality' of a particular sermon may vary, the general format,
                          content, style, degree of importance, etc. point to how the church views
                          itself and the place of the sermon and sacraments overall. While these
                          tendencies are not proof or sources, they can be significant signposts as to
                          what is going on. A prime example is the development of less traditionally
                          liturgical forms of worship and the use of modern art and architecture in
                          Western Christian churches over the past 100 years - a similar signpost
                          would be the development of wetsern ecclesiastical art during and since the
                          Renaissance. Something has been changing. The follow up question is
                          whether that change is or has been valid or not as compared with the way the
                          Church 'developed' in various ways in the Ante- and Post-Nicene periods.

                          Christopher

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Christopher Orr
                          Well, for me Orthodoxy has pointed to faith in the God Who is Love rather than the God I formulated in my head. Heart vs. Head, but in a way quite different
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 30, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Well, for me Orthodoxy has pointed to faith in the God Who is Love rather
                            than the God I formulated in my head. Heart vs. Head, but in a way quite
                            different than how that dialetic works out in Western Christianity (e.g.,
                            Confessional vs. Pietist Lutherans; Methodist vs. Anglo-Catholic Anglicans,
                            etc.).

                            Using the sickness analogy, I would also note that anger is a normal (in our
                            fallen state) aspect of the grieving process. However, it is only one of
                            many steps and must be passed beyond. It is easy for converts to any faith
                            (or lack thereof) to boil their hearts in the anger they are feeling and can
                            do more damage in the end than if they simply stayed put in their original
                            confession.

                            Christopher


                            On 5/30/08, Northland Words <NorthlandWords@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Yes-an essential observation. Thank you.
                            >
                            > These generalities are only generalities. They may be useful, as I think
                            > you suggest, if we regard them more as "signposts" or "symptoms" than as
                            > anything absolute and definite. A temperature of 102 doesn't mean very much
                            > in itself, but as one among many symptoms, it may point us to diagnose a
                            > problem. (What do these symptoms, if accurate, suggest about our Lutheran
                            > relationship with the God of Love?)
                            >
                            > More to the point (and inherent, I think, in Christopher's observation), a
                            > diagnosis accurately considering these symptoms can point us to possible
                            > treatments. Of course, in the end, the signposts always point to the same
                            > Lord. The treatments are never the cure: we know Who the cure is! And we
                            > know where to receive Him!
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            >
                            > Daved
                            >
                            > _____
                            >
                            > From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>]
                            > On Behalf Of Christopher Orr
                            > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 1:07 PM
                            > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Sermons
                            >
                            > *There are very great exceptions to this observation, praise God. (Perhaps
                            > they didn't do well in seminary?)*
                            >
                            > I just wanted to underline this point of David's and also note that it
                            > applies to Orthodoxy. What we are talking about here are generalities,
                            > various 'groups' and individuals will not fit these descriptions.
                            >
                            > While the 'quality' of a particular sermon may vary, the general format,
                            > content, style, degree of importance, etc. point to how the church views
                            > itself and the place of the sermon and sacraments overall. While these
                            > tendencies are not proof or sources, they can be significant signposts as
                            > to
                            > what is going on. A prime example is the development of less traditionally
                            > liturgical forms of worship and the use of modern art and architecture in
                            > Western Christian churches over the past 100 years - a similar signpost
                            > would be the development of wetsern ecclesiastical art during and since the
                            > Renaissance. Something has been changing. The follow up question is
                            > whether that change is or has been valid or not as compared with the way
                            > the
                            > Church 'developed' in various ways in the Ante- and Post-Nicene periods.
                            >
                            > Christopher
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            --
                            Christopher Orr
                            917 848 7787 Mobile
                            xcjorr@...


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • phos_hilarion@hotmail.com
                            Using the sickness analogy, I would also note that anger is a normal (in our fallen state) aspect of the grieving process. However, it is only one of many
                            Message 13 of 15 , May 30, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              "Using the sickness analogy, I would also note that anger is a normal (in our

                              fallen state) aspect of the grieving process. However, it is only one of

                              many steps and must be passed beyond. It is easy for converts to any faith

                              (or lack thereof) to boil their hearts in the anger they are feeling and can

                              do more damage in the end than if they simply stayed put in their original

                              confession."

                              Those are very wise words, especially for our poor Lutheran ears.
                              Continue in your prayers for us.
                              Love in Christ,
                              phos

                              To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                              From: xcjorr@...
                              Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 14:50:08 -0400
                              Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Sermons




















                              Well, for me Orthodoxy has pointed to faith in the God Who is Love rather

                              than the God I formulated in my head. Heart vs. Head, but in a way quite

                              different than how that dialetic works out in Western Christianity (e.g.,

                              Confessional vs. Pietist Lutherans; Methodist vs. Anglo-Catholic Anglicans,

                              etc.).



                              Using the sickness analogy, I would also note that anger is a normal (in our

                              fallen state) aspect of the grieving process. However, it is only one of

                              many steps and must be passed beyond. It is easy for converts to any faith

                              (or lack thereof) to boil their hearts in the anger they are feeling and can

                              do more damage in the end than if they simply stayed put in their original

                              confession.



                              Christopher



                              On 5/30/08, Northland Words <NorthlandWords@...> wrote:

                              >

                              > Yes-an essential observation. Thank you.

                              >

                              > These generalities are only generalities. They may be useful, as I think

                              > you suggest, if we regard them more as "signposts" or "symptoms" than as

                              > anything absolute and definite. A temperature of 102 doesn't mean very much

                              > in itself, but as one among many symptoms, it may point us to diagnose a

                              > problem. (What do these symptoms, if accurate, suggest about our Lutheran

                              > relationship with the God of Love?)

                              >

                              > More to the point (and inherent, I think, in Christopher's observation), a

                              > diagnosis accurately considering these symptoms can point us to possible

                              > treatments. Of course, in the end, the signposts always point to the same

                              > Lord. The treatments are never the cure: we know Who the cure is! And we

                              > know where to receive Him!

                              >

                              > Thanks,

                              >

                              > Daved

                              >

                              > _____

                              >

                              > From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>

                              > [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>]

                              > On Behalf Of Christopher Orr

                              > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 1:07 PM

                              > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>

                              > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Sermons

                              >

                              > *There are very great exceptions to this observation, praise God. (Perhaps

                              > they didn't do well in seminary?)*

                              >

                              > I just wanted to underline this point of David's and also note that it

                              > applies to Orthodoxy. What we are talking about here are generalities,

                              > various 'groups' and individuals will not fit these descriptions.

                              >

                              > While the 'quality' of a particular sermon may vary, the general format,

                              > content, style, degree of importance, etc. point to how the church views

                              > itself and the place of the sermon and sacraments overall. While these

                              > tendencies are not proof or sources, they can be significant signposts as

                              > to

                              > what is going on. A prime example is the development of less traditionally

                              > liturgical forms of worship and the use of modern art and architecture in

                              > Western Christian churches over the past 100 years - a similar signpost

                              > would be the development of wetsern ecclesiastical art during and since the

                              > Renaissance. Something has been changing. The follow up question is

                              > whether that change is or has been valid or not as compared with the way

                              > the

                              > Church 'developed' in various ways in the Ante- and Post-Nicene periods.

                              >

                              > Christopher

                              >

                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              >

                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              >

                              >

                              >



                              --

                              Christopher Orr

                              917 848 7787 Mobile

                              xcjorr@...



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
























                              _________________________________________________________________
                              Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety.
                              http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_family_safety_052008

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • James Royal Prickett, Ph.D.
                              Here is a link to the written homilies of Fr. David Moser (ROCOR) of Boise, Idaho: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/propoved/ jr ... but I hadn t had luck in
                              Message 14 of 15 , May 31, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Here is a link to the written homilies of Fr. David Moser (ROCOR) of
                                Boise, Idaho:

                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/propoved/

                                jr

                                --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, <phos_hilarion@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Thanks everyone!
                                > Among Lutherans it's common to find written sermons posted online
                                but I hadn't had luck in finding many Orthodox sermons. If they don't
                                write out their manuscripts that explains why. I suppose I should be
                                looking for podcasts instead. I have listened to Fr. Hopko via
                                podcast before and enjoyed it.
                                >
                                > Rosemarie, you're right on when you say that Lutheran sermons don't
                                discuss Love so much. Orthodox sermons are always talking about Love -
                                I also observe that the *Orthodox* are always talking about Love,
                                it's in the way you live and breathe it seems. It's what I find most
                                attractive about Orthodoxy.
                                >
                                > Peter, that sounds like the best compliment one could get! :)
                                >
                                > Christopher, "My local imam's sermons are far, far superior." - Are
                                you sure you ended up in the right building? ;) What is a
                                baladachine? Interesting & apt point about what the architecture
                                stresses as being the most important.
                                >
                                > Love in Christ,
                                > your little phos
                                >
                                > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                > From: rose.lieffring@...
                                > Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 22:18:13 -0400
                                > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Sermons
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I was thinking on this a bit more during my drive home
                                from work tonight and
                                >
                                > there was one very obvious difference in the sermons that I recall
                                when I
                                >
                                > first started attending the Orthodox Church. Orthodox sermons are
                                always
                                >
                                > talking about Love. Love within the Trinity, Love of God for us,
                                our love
                                >
                                > for neighbor. The priest asks a leading question and the answer is
                                Love.
                                >
                                > Always encouragement about this communion of Love. The Lutheran
                                sermons I
                                >
                                > was familiar with didn't discuss Love so much.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > In fact I was listening to a AFR podcast of Father Thomas Hopko's
                                while
                                >
                                > driving and it wasn't but a few minutes after this thought came to
                                me when
                                >
                                > and sure enough...he started talking about love!
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Rosemarie Lieffring <
                                >
                                > rose.lieffring@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > > My priest does as Christopher's experience offers. He reads
                                some, prays,
                                >
                                > > makes some notes. I asked him about prepared sermons and he said
                                he speaks
                                >
                                > > to the people who are there so he isn't really tied to a word for
                                >
                                > > word prepared text. Quite honestly, he expects the Holy Spirit
                                to guide him
                                >
                                > > and from my vantage point, he is not left unaided.
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > I think the sermons are different. Lutheran sermons are Lutheran
                                and the
                                >
                                > > Law and Gospel are intentionally and precisely separated. That
                                been my
                                >
                                > > experience in Orthodox sermons. The focus on a formula of first
                                terrorizing
                                >
                                > > consciences with Law and then soothing them with Gospel just
                                isn't there.
                                >
                                > > I suspect my priest's sermon would fail the Wilken diagnostic.
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > When I took my Lutheran Lay Ministry studies I was taught that
                                Word and
                                >
                                > > Sacrament are equal means of grace but in the Orthodox Church the
                                focus of
                                >
                                > > the Divine Liturgy is on Christ in the Eucharist as Christopher
                                pointed
                                >
                                > > out. So...there is a difference then in theology/formula and in
                                importance
                                >
                                > > (priority) of the sermon which is I would expect to be detectable
                                to the
                                >
                                > > listener.
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > Don't some of the Orthodox priests have sermon podcasts? Could
                                anyone
                                >
                                > > recommend some representative ones to phos?-----R
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > On 5/29/08, BPeter Brandt-Sorheim <donpedrogordo@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > >>
                                >
                                > >> I vote for sermons that apply the gospel of the day.
                                >
                                > >>
                                >
                                > >> At school someone dissed me for giving a short sermon that was
                                too much
                                >
                                > >> like a patristic reading. I took it as a compliment despite the
                                intended
                                >
                                > >> put-down. Peter
                                >
                                > >>
                                >
                                > >>
                                >
                                > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                > >>
                                >
                                > >>
                                >
                                > >>
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > _________________________________________________________________
                                > E-mail for the greater good. Join the i'm Initiative from Microsoft.
                                > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_
                                GreaterGood
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • orthogrammy
                                http://www.dynamispublications.org/ DYNAMIS! A publication of St. George Orthodox Christian Cathedral Wichita, KS St. John 9:1-38 (6/1) CHRIST IS RISEN!
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jun 1, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  http://www.dynamispublications.org/

                                  DYNAMIS!
                                  A publication of St. George Orthodox Christian Cathedral
                                  Wichita, KS

                                  St. John 9:1-38 (6/1) CHRIST IS RISEN! Gospel, Sunday of the
                                  Blindman: 6th of Pascha



                                  Open and Closed Minds: St. John 9:1-38, especially vs. 24: "Give God
                                  the glory! We know that this Man is a sinner." Trying to hold a
                                  heart to heart conversation with someone who has all of life's
                                  mysteries `answered,' considers every question `settled,' and brushes
                                  away new insights with determined conclusions is both disappointing
                                  and enervating. By contrast, talking when others will freely examine
                                  life's basic questions, share from the heart, and look forward to
                                  learning from every conversation, energizes, lifts, and builds up the
                                  soul.

                                  In this present passage, the Pharisees' reactions to the healing of
                                  the man born blind exemplify classic, stubborn resistance to open
                                  dialog. Rather than welcome the man's healing as a sign of God's
                                  presence, they grew more adamant in opposition and argumentative
                                  concerning the Lord Jesus (vs. 22). The man who was healed, by
                                  contrast, exemplifies a heart and mind open to dialog and appreciative
                                  of God's mysterious workings in the world. Notice six ways the
                                  Pharisees defended against new truth even as the healed man embraced
                                  truth and Truth Himself.

                                  1) In accusing the Lord of violating the Sabbath (vs. 16), some of the
                                  Pharisees closed themselves off from the joy of the healing, though
                                  others of them could not accept their reasonings (Jn. 9:16). The one
                                  who was healed said, "He is a prophet" (vs. 17). Both in experience
                                  and by conclusion, he testified to God. "O taste and see that the
                                  Lord is good" (Ps. 33:8).

                                  2) The Pharisees sought to explain away what had happened by
                                  questioning a healing visible for all to see and by impugning the
                                  honesty of the witnesses: "Is this your son,who you say was born
                                  blind? How then does he now see?" (vs. 19). Here alone, three
                                  different attacks are made, but plain truth and simple replies force
                                  them to abandon their earlier approach

                                  3) "The Jews had agreed already that if anyone confessed...he would be
                                  put out of the synagogue" (vs. 22), exposes the hidden motives behind
                                  their persistent interrogation associated with the healing - the
                                  threat of social banishment. The man's parents rightly referred them
                                  to the man himself. The newly sighted man spoke for himself and God -
                                  and quite capably.

                                  4) "Labeling" is a tried and true method of intimidation to silence
                                  the truth. Notice that Jesus is called a "sinner" but no
                                  substantiating evidence is offered. In addition, they take the role
                                  of `impeccable' authority. Note the emphatic "we" (vs. 24),
                                  grammatically underscored in the original. The Jews retreated into
                                  "specialist" knowledge in order to assert a "truth" with no basis in
                                  fact - a familiar ploy: "Science has shown...," "All the evidence
                                  proves...," "Those who have looked into the matter know...." On the
                                  other hand, the blind man brushes aside all these tactics and plainly
                                  states the facts. "...though I was blind, now I see" (vs. 25).

                                  5) When it became clear that all the Pharisees tactics were failing,
                                  the Lord's opponents resorted to discrediting the witness himself.
                                  "You are His disciple, but we are Moses' disciples" (vs. 28). They
                                  also appeal to "higher" authorities and attempt to "expose" the facts
                                  of the case as worthless. They even attribute prejudice to the man
                                  who had been healed! The man's reply is a classic example of one who
                                  is growing in strength as he is attacked for his faith. He easily
                                  reaches the conclusion they reject: "If this man were not from God, He
                                  could do nothing" (vs. 33). They in turn continue to impugn the
                                  healed man's worth as a person (vs. 34).

                                  6) Finally, the Jews take the "ultimate" resort of the implacably
                                  self-assured: they thrust the man away from them rather than face his
                                  truth (vs. 34). When the man was thus rejected the Lord came to him
                                  and revealed Himself as God. Of course, the man worshiped Him (vs. 38).

                                  Illumine our hearts, O Master Who loveth mankind, with the pure light
                                  of divine knowledge, and open the eyes of our minds to the
                                  understanding of Thy Gospel teachings.

                                  Return to the June Calendar

                                  --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "James Royal Prickett,
                                  Ph.D." <jimi@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Here is a link to the written homilies of Fr. David Moser (ROCOR) of
                                  > Boise, Idaho:
                                  >
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/propoved/
                                  >
                                  > jr
                                  >
                                  > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, <phos_hilarion@>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks everyone!
                                  > > Among Lutherans it's common to find written sermons posted online
                                  > but I hadn't had luck in finding many Orthodox sermons. If they don't
                                  > write out their manuscripts that explains why. I suppose I should be
                                  > looking for podcasts instead. I have listened to Fr. Hopko via
                                  > podcast before and enjoyed it.
                                  > >
                                  > > Rosemarie, you're right on when you say that Lutheran sermons don't
                                  > discuss Love so much. Orthodox sermons are always talking about Love -
                                  > I also observe that the *Orthodox* are always talking about Love,
                                  > it's in the way you live and breathe it seems. It's what I find most
                                  > attractive about Orthodoxy.
                                  > >
                                  > > Peter, that sounds like the best compliment one could get! :)
                                  > >
                                  > > Christopher, "My local imam's sermons are far, far superior." - Are
                                  > you sure you ended up in the right building? ;) What is a
                                  > baladachine? Interesting & apt point about what the architecture
                                  > stresses as being the most important.
                                  > >
                                  > > Love in Christ,
                                  > > your little phos
                                  > >
                                  > > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > From: rose.lieffring@
                                  > > Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 22:18:13 -0400
                                  > > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Sermons
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > I was thinking on this a bit more during my drive home
                                  > from work tonight and
                                  > >
                                  > > there was one very obvious difference in the sermons that I recall
                                  > when I
                                  > >
                                  > > first started attending the Orthodox Church. Orthodox sermons are
                                  > always
                                  > >
                                  > > talking about Love. Love within the Trinity, Love of God for us,
                                  > our love
                                  > >
                                  > > for neighbor. The priest asks a leading question and the answer is
                                  > Love.
                                  > >
                                  > > Always encouragement about this communion of Love. The Lutheran
                                  > sermons I
                                  > >
                                  > > was familiar with didn't discuss Love so much.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > In fact I was listening to a AFR podcast of Father Thomas Hopko's
                                  > while
                                  > >
                                  > > driving and it wasn't but a few minutes after this thought came to
                                  > me when
                                  > >
                                  > > and sure enough...he started talking about love!
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Rosemarie Lieffring <
                                  > >
                                  > > rose.lieffring@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > > My priest does as Christopher's experience offers. He reads
                                  > some, prays,
                                  > >
                                  > > > makes some notes. I asked him about prepared sermons and he said
                                  > he speaks
                                  > >
                                  > > > to the people who are there so he isn't really tied to a word for
                                  > >
                                  > > > word prepared text. Quite honestly, he expects the Holy Spirit
                                  > to guide him
                                  > >
                                  > > > and from my vantage point, he is not left unaided.
                                  > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > > I think the sermons are different. Lutheran sermons are Lutheran
                                  > and the
                                  > >
                                  > > > Law and Gospel are intentionally and precisely separated. That
                                  > been my
                                  > >
                                  > > > experience in Orthodox sermons. The focus on a formula of first
                                  > terrorizing
                                  > >
                                  > > > consciences with Law and then soothing them with Gospel just
                                  > isn't there.
                                  > >
                                  > > > I suspect my priest's sermon would fail the Wilken diagnostic.
                                  > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > > When I took my Lutheran Lay Ministry studies I was taught that
                                  > Word and
                                  > >
                                  > > > Sacrament are equal means of grace but in the Orthodox Church the
                                  > focus of
                                  > >
                                  > > > the Divine Liturgy is on Christ in the Eucharist as Christopher
                                  > pointed
                                  > >
                                  > > > out. So...there is a difference then in theology/formula and in
                                  > importance
                                  > >
                                  > > > (priority) of the sermon which is I would expect to be detectable
                                  > to the
                                  > >
                                  > > > listener.
                                  > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > > Don't some of the Orthodox priests have sermon podcasts? Could
                                  > anyone
                                  > >
                                  > > > recommend some representative ones to phos?-----R
                                  > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > > On 5/29/08, BPeter Brandt-Sorheim <donpedrogordo@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > >>
                                  > >
                                  > > >> I vote for sermons that apply the gospel of the day.
                                  > >
                                  > > >>
                                  > >
                                  > > >> At school someone dissed me for giving a short sermon that was
                                  > too much
                                  > >
                                  > > >> like a patristic reading. I took it as a compliment despite the
                                  > intended
                                  > >
                                  > > >> put-down. Peter
                                  > >
                                  > > >>
                                  > >
                                  > > >>
                                  > >
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