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Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Christ is Risen!

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  • Anastasia Theodoridis
    As often happens, Frederica says it best for me. Check out her essay on controversies in the Orthodox Church at
    Message 1 of 15 , May 9 6:18 AM
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      As often happens, Frederica says it best for me. Check out her essay on controversies in the Orthodox Church at http://www.frederica.com/writings/orthodox-controversies.html and see how different it is!

      Anastasia
      e-mail: anastasiatheo01@...
      blog: http://anastasias-corner.blogspot.com




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • BPeter Brandt-Sorheim
      Yes, there is fuss and trouble everywhere. That is evidence of our need for Christ. But, there is great peace and harmony in my heart, my conscience, my soul,
      Message 2 of 15 , May 9 6:32 AM
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        Yes, there is fuss and trouble everywhere. That is evidence of our need for Christ.

        But, there is great peace and harmony in my heart, my conscience, my soul, since becoming Orthodox. How joyous the intercession: "...and grant us Thy great mercy."

        When a devout family came to me in tears as I left my congregation, my words were like those of the bishop: "Please understand that I too must seek my salvation." I still pray for them. May the Lord behold their piety with His accustomed love and mercy.

        [formerly Pastor] B Peter Brandt-Sorheim

        wrvinovskis <WRVinovskis@...> wrote:
        There is no lack of conflict and fighting among the Orthodox,
        also. While there may be many good reasons to become Orthodox, I'm
        not sure peace and harmony is at the top of the list.

        ML wrote:
        Bishop JOSEPH listened patiently and compassionately to our situation, concerns and fears. Then he said to us, " Have you ever thought about your salvation?"



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      • Rebecca Wilson
        Here are truly words of wisdom. This is a quote from Fr. Ted Bobosh s reflectons on the difficulties that are facing the OCA: St. Maria Skobtsova, being part
        Message 3 of 15 , May 9 6:39 AM
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          Here are truly words of wisdom. This is a quote from Fr. Ted Bobosh's reflectons on the difficulties that are facing the OCA:

          St. Maria Skobtsova, being part of an émigré church (rather than a missionary church), did have some insight into the awesomeness of the task facing Orthodoxy in Western Europe in the 1940’s. Orthodoxy had been displaced to Western Europe by the rise of atheist communism in Russia, and found itself living in the darkness of atheist Fascism which was blitzkrieging across Europe. Mother Maria recognized that Orthodoxy separated from its motherland-favored status is given a freedom to be the Body of Christ and not merely a state-church. She saw clearly that freedom places great demands on the membership who can no longer rely on the cultural/state support to maintain the church or its status in society. These struggles also are rife with temptations to avoid the difficulties by trying to live in some golden age past or by trying to recreate and maintain the culture from which one is exiled instead of trying to live the faith in the soil in which one is newly planted.
          She wrote:
          “Freedom obliges, freedom calls for sacrificial self-giving, freedom determines one’s honesty and strictness with oneself and one’s path. And if we want to be strict and honest, worthy of the freedom given to us, we must first of all test our own attitude toward our spiritual world. We have no right to wax tenderhearted over all our past indiscriminately – much of that past is far loftier and purer than we are, but much of it is sinful and criminal. We should aspire to the lofty and combat the sinful. We cannot stylize everything as some sweet ringing of Moscow bells – religion dies of stylization. We cannot cultivate dead customs – only authentic spiritual fire has weight in religious life. We cannot freeze a living soul with rules and orders – once, in their own time, they were the expression of other living souls, but new souls demand a corresponding expression. We cannot see the Church as a sort of aesthetic perfection and limit ourselves to aesthetic swooning
          – our God given freedom calls us to activity and struggle. And it would be a great lie to tell searching souls: ‘Go to church, because there you will find peace.’ The opposite is true. She tells those who are at peace and asleep: ‘Go to church, because there you will feel real alarm about your sins, about your perdition, about the world’s sins and perdition. There you will feel an unappeasable hunger for Christ’s truth. There instead of lukewarm you will become ardent, instead of pacified you will become alarmed, instead of learning the wisdom of this world you will become foolish for Christ. It is to this foolishness, this folly in Christ, that our freedom calls us … And we will become fools for Christ, because we know not only the difficulty of this path but also the immense happiness of feeling God’s hand upon what we do.” (p. 114-115. MOTHER MARIA SKOBTSOVA: ESSENTIAL WRITINGS)


          St. Maria was truly an Orthodox visionary. I highly recommend her writings and covet her prayers.

          Christ is Risen! Indeed He is Risen!

          Rebecca

          BPeter Brandt-Sorheim <donpedrogordo@...> wrote:
          Yes, there is fuss and trouble everywhere. That is evidence of our need for Christ.

          But, there is great peace and harmony in my heart, my conscience, my soul, since becoming Orthodox. How joyous the intercession: "...and grant us Thy great mercy."

          When a devout family came to me in tears as I left my congregation, my words were like those of the bishop: "Please understand that I too must seek my salvation." I still pray for them. May the Lord behold their piety with His accustomed love and mercy.

          [formerly Pastor] B Peter Brandt-Sorheim

          wrvinovskis <WRVinovskis@...> wrote:
          There is no lack of conflict and fighting among the Orthodox,
          also. While there may be many good reasons to become Orthodox, I'm
          not sure peace and harmony is at the top of the list.

          ML wrote:
          Bishop JOSEPH listened patiently and compassionately to our situation, concerns and fears. Then he said to us, " Have you ever thought about your salvation?"

          Recent Activity

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          w/ John McEnroe
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          .

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        • tharman32
          I wanted to ask...for me Orthodoxy seems to be more unified in its teaching. By that I mean there doesn t seem to be this versus that (body vs. soul, faith vs
          Message 4 of 15 , May 9 7:38 AM
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            I wanted to ask...for me Orthodoxy seems to be more unified in its
            teaching. By that I mean there doesn't seem to be this versus that
            (body vs. soul, faith vs works, Scripture vs. Tradition, etc).
            Orthodoxy seems to teach that this is the Way, and it involves
            several aspects or componets.

            Is this accurate? Or am I off base?
            Thanks

            --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, BPeter Brandt-Sorheim
            <donpedrogordo@...> wrote:
            >
            > Yes, there is fuss and trouble everywhere. That is evidence of
            our need for Christ.
            >
            > But, there is great peace and harmony in my heart, my
            conscience, my soul, since becoming Orthodox. How joyous the
            intercession: "...and grant us Thy great mercy."
            >
            > When a devout family came to me in tears as I left my
            congregation, my words were like those of the bishop: "Please
            understand that I too must seek my salvation." I still pray for
            them. May the Lord behold their piety with His accustomed love and
            mercy.
            >
            > [formerly Pastor] B Peter Brandt-Sorheim
            >
            > wrvinovskis <WRVinovskis@...> wrote:
            > There is no lack of conflict and fighting among the
            Orthodox,
            > also. While there may be many good reasons to become Orthodox, I'm
            > not sure peace and harmony is at the top of the list.
            >
            > ML wrote:
            > Bishop JOSEPH listened patiently and compassionately to our
            situation, concerns and fears. Then he said to us, " Have you ever
            thought about your salvation?"
            >
            >
            >
            > Recent Activity
            >
            > 2
            > New Members
            >
            > Visit Your Group
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            > Kevin Sites
            > Get coverage of
            > world crises.
            >
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            > w/ John McEnroe
            > Join the All-Bran
            > Day 10 Club.
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups
            > Stay healthy
            > and discover other
            > people who can help.
            >
            >
            >
            > .
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            Mobile. Try it now.
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            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • BPeter Brandt-Sorheim
            Christ is risen! You are accurate. Orthodoxy is quite united in theological understanding and teaching. I cannot say that in twenty plus years I have
            Message 5 of 15 , May 9 8:42 AM
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              Christ is risen!
              You are accurate. Orthodoxy is quite united in theological understanding and teaching. I cannot say that in twenty plus years I have encountered more than one significant divergence...though that one has great import.
              There are certainly differences of pastoral application in various situations. I attribute this to the healthy Orthodoxy understanding that we are not in a game to keep rules and therefore seeking how to justify exceptions or variations. We are about the task of bringing human persons into the salvation in Christ. You will observe that even our Savior made occasional unexpected responses as reported by the sacred Evangelists but in all cases, His goal was salvific. Such must always be our approach.
              For example, in Orthodox perspective no sacraments / mysteries are for sure valid outside of Orthodoxy. This does not mean than God cannot work through such actions as He is sovereign. And, this does not stop the Orthodox from utilizing the sacral actions of the non Orthodox when it can serve the purpose of salvation.
              A very conservative Greek Old Calendarist presbyter of my acquaintance baptized a young convert from Roman Catholicism. The bishop had instructed that in order to affirm the above mentioned principle baptism should be the normal mode of reception into Orthodoxy even in the case of converts who previously practiced some form of Christianity. But, the same person's elderly mother was at the same time received only by chrismation as she genuinely wished to become Orthodox but could not well grasp the principle nor physically endure a baptism by triple immersion.
              Other bishops make different decisions about how Roman Catholics and Protestant Christians normally are to be received. The goal is salvation in Christ. This is the touchstone that determines the application in a spectrum from strictness to mercy.
              My wife is from a Soviet Russian family displaced by WW2. As no Orthodox Church was known in their new Brazilian home, my wife was baptized in a Roman Catholic Church. When her sister was born three years later, the family had located an Orthodox Church. Her sister was baptized and chrismated.
              My wife was chrismated at age three at the same time as her sister was baptized. To this day she recalls the sacred fragrance of the chrism with great joy and celebrates the day of the transferal of the relics of St Nicholas to Bari as her second feast day after that of her patroness saint. We still pray with thanks to God for the [now reposed] spiritual elder / presbyter Serafim who anointed her.
              I hope this is helpful. Paschal joy to you! Peter

              Thrman32 <tharman32@...> wrote:
              I wanted to ask...for me Orthodoxy seems to be more unified in its
              teaching. By that I mean there doesn't seem to be this versus that
              (body vs. soul, faith vs works, Scripture vs. Tradition, etc).
              Orthodoxy seems to teach that this is the Way, and it involves
              several aspects or componets.

              Is this accurate? Or am I off base?
              Thanks

              --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, BPeter Brandt-Sorheim
              <donpedrogordo@...> wrote:
              >
              > Yes, there is fuss and trouble everywhere. That is evidence of
              our need for Christ.
              >
              > But, there is great peace and harmony in my heart, my
              conscience, my soul, since becoming Orthodox. How joyous the
              intercession: "...and grant us Thy great mercy."
              >
              > When a devout family came to me in tears as I left my
              congregation, my words were like those of the bishop: "Please
              understand that I too must seek my salvation." I still pray for
              them. May the Lord behold their piety with His accustomed love and
              mercy.
              >
              > [formerly Pastor] B Peter Brandt-Sorheim
              >
              > wrvinovskis <WRVinovskis@...> wrote:
              > There is no lack of conflict and fighting among the
              Orthodox,
              > also. While there may be many good reasons to become Orthodox, I'm
              > not sure peace and harmony is at the top of the list.
              >
              > ML wrote:
              > Bishop JOSEPH listened patiently and compassionately to our
              situation, concerns and fears. Then he said to us, " Have you ever
              thought about your salvation?"
              >
              >
              >
              > Recent Activity
              >
              > 2
              > New Members
              >
              > Visit Your Group
              > Yahoo! News
              > Kevin Sites
              > Get coverage of
              > world crises.
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups
              > w/ John McEnroe
              > Join the All-Bran
              > Day 10 Club.
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups
              > Stay healthy
              > and discover other
              > people who can help.
              >
              >
              >
              > .
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
              Mobile. Try it now.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >






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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • laurafrizelle
              Dear Pastor Vinovskis, You are right. In that very same conversation with my bishop and priest, they reminded me that the Orthodox Church is not perfect and
              Message 6 of 15 , May 9 9:00 AM
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                Dear Pastor Vinovskis,

                You are right. In that very same conversation with my bishop and
                priest, they reminded me that the Orthodox Church is not perfect and
                has it's divisions.

                Locally in another jurisdiction there has been a lot of controversy
                and even in our own parish's history, there has been fighting, but the
                big difference I see is that there is a time tested, apostolic even,
                process for reconcilliation and self correction.

                On the parish level: confession and being reconciled to your brother
                before you commune is practiced where I am at and the people have a
                deeper relationship with their priests and respect for the office.

                On the whole church level, a council of bishops. Much different from
                voter's meetings and jockeying between "liberals" and "confessionals".

                Episcopal government and the clear view of ordination as a sacrament,
                so far from my view, seem to really help with resolving confict. Also
                doctrinal issues like the what the LCMS is facing are pretty much
                unheard of in my neck of the woods. There might be disagreements even
                about money or fasting or whatever, but these are minor and do not
                border on breaking with apostolic teaching. Time ends up healing
                these conflicts, whereas in churches with more democratic forms of
                church government it seems like the churches change with the times in
                a more worldly direction.

                For what it is worth.

                In my parish and in my diocese people are fighting for unity between
                jusrisdictions. People fight against their selfish desires to be in
                communion with each other. Humility is a virtue that is admired and I
                have friends who are not afraid to speak the truth in love to me when
                I am wrong. I have never experienced anything like this before.

                "Let the righteous strike me, it shall be a kindness and let him
                reprove me, it shall be as excellent oil."--- from the Divine Liturgy
                of St. John Chrysostom.

                Another thing is this. Because doctrinally the Orthodox Church is
                steadfast, one can really stand firm and fight for what is right.
                Before being Orthodox I felt like I was on a hill of sand.

                Peace,
                Laura

                P.S. I just woke up and am drinking my first cup of coffee. It's
                probably too early for me to try to communicate about such things. ;-)





                --- In utheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "wrvinovskis"
                <WRVinovskis@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear Sister,
                >
                > As an LCMS pastor, I very much appreciate your family's frustration
                > with the controversy and fighting in the LCMS. I, too, from
                > time-to-time have been tempted to throw in the towel. I pray God's
                > blessing on you in your journey. I trust you will find a safe haven in
                > the Orthodox church. Having said that, in my brief interactions with
                > Orthodox Christians of various stripes it has become fairly obvious to
                > me that there is no lack of conflict and fighting among the Orthodox,
                > also. While there may be many good reasons to become Orthodox, I'm
                > not sure peace and harmony is at the top of the list.
                >
                > God's Peace,
                >
                > Pr. Waldemar Vinovskis
                >
                > "We feebly struggle, they in glory shine!"
                >
                >
                > > >
                > > > My husband was a pastor for nearly 10 years in the LCMS. After 9
                years
                > > > of controversy and fighting in the LCMS and about a year of intense
                > > > study and prayer, we met with Bishop JOSEPH and our local Orthodox
                > > > priest. Bishop JOSEPH listened patiently and compassionately to our
                > > > situation, concerns and fears. Then he said to us, " Have you ever
                > > > thought about your salvation?"
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • laurafrizelle
                THarmann, Yes you have picked up on a great point. Everything is connected. The Church is the Body of Christ. We are created in the image and likeness of the
                Message 7 of 15 , May 9 9:13 AM
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                  THarmann,
                  Yes you have picked up on a great point. Everything is connected.
                  The Church is the Body of Christ. We are created in the image and
                  likeness of the Holy Trinity which is completely, perfectly united in
                  love. The Church and her doctrine and spirit reflect this unity.

                  One thing I have noticed personally is that my heart, my head and my
                  soul need to be healed back together. Because of experiences in my
                  life and my sin, they have become separated so I would not feel pain
                  or guilt. Growing in unity with God and repentance will bring my self
                  back together. It hurts sometimes, but it is a healing pain. Like
                  alcohol poured on a wound.

                  Laura


                  are --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "tharman32"
                  <tharman32@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I wanted to ask...for me Orthodoxy seems to be more unified in its
                  > teaching. By that I mean there doesn't seem to be this versus that
                  > (body vs. soul, faith vs works, Scripture vs. Tradition, etc).
                  > Orthodoxy seems to teach that this is the Way, and it involves
                  > several aspects or componets.
                  >
                  > Is this accurate? Or am I off base?
                  > Thanks
                  >
                  > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, BPeter Brandt-Sorheim
                  > <donpedrogordo@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Yes, there is fuss and trouble everywhere. That is evidence of
                  > our need for Christ.
                  > >
                  > > But, there is great peace and harmony in my heart, my
                  > conscience, my soul, since becoming Orthodox. How joyous the
                  > intercession: "...and grant us Thy great mercy."
                  > >
                  > > When a devout family came to me in tears as I left my
                  > congregation, my words were like those of the bishop: "Please
                  > understand that I too must seek my salvation." I still pray for
                  > them. May the Lord behold their piety with His accustomed love and
                  > mercy.
                  > >
                  > > [formerly Pastor] B Peter Brandt-Sorheim
                  > >
                  > > wrvinovskis <WRVinovskis@> wrote:
                  > > There is no lack of conflict and fighting among the
                  > Orthodox,
                  > > also. While there may be many good reasons to become Orthodox, I'm
                  > > not sure peace and harmony is at the top of the list.
                  > >
                  > > ML wrote:
                  > > Bishop JOSEPH listened patiently and compassionately to our
                  > situation, concerns and fears. Then he said to us, " Have you ever
                  > thought about your salvation?"
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Recent Activity
                  > >
                  > > 2
                  > > New Members
                  > >
                  > > Visit Your Group
                  > > Yahoo! News
                  > > Kevin Sites
                  > > Get coverage of
                  > > world crises.
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups
                  > > w/ John McEnroe
                  > > Join the All-Bran
                  > > Day 10 Club.
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups
                  > > Stay healthy
                  > > and discover other
                  > > people who can help.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > .
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ---------------------------------
                  > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
                  > Mobile. Try it now.
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
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