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RE: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Lutherans and Orthodox in Heaven?

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  • phos_hilarion@hotmail.com
    Thanks to all for helping answer my question. As to the Orthodox woman, I did not know her at all when she said those charitable things which is why I assumed
    Message 1 of 53 , Jan 18, 2008
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      Thanks to all for helping answer my question. As to the Orthodox woman, I did not know her at all when she said those charitable things which is why I assumed she was generally talking about Lutheranism and not myself. I'm willing to concede that perhaps I was understanding her in a more Lutheran way than she intended.

      Now, being a good German with a fixation on certainty in the blood :) , to hear the Orthodox say of *themselves* that they don't know if they will be saved is at first a frightening prospect. My next question was going to be *how* it is that you are not sure but several of you have already explained that very well. So next I find myself, like Rev. Ellingworth, wondering how that belief affects your daily race for the crown. Does it serve to keep you in repentence and humility or does it drive you to despair at times?

      Love in Christ,
      Phos.





      To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.comFrom: didache@...: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:34:41 -0500Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Lutherans and Orthodox in Heaven?




      Ok, somewhere between the apparent Orthodox agnosticism concerning salvation and the other extreme *eternal security* (once saved, always saved), I believe that, drawn solely from Scripture, we can conclude:a) He who believes and is baptized will be saved.b) Those who are saved are saved by grace through faith as a free gift.c) One who believes and is baptized can be secure in his salvation -- NOT because he is perfect and sinless, but because of the perfect promise of God fulfilled in the sacrificial atonement of Jesus Christ.d) No one can say, with any certainty, whether *another* is saved or not; but one can say that *if someone is/was a baptized believer, then the promise of God is that he will be saved.*I.e., it is all rooted in God's Word and promise. A promise fulfilled in full in Jesus Christ. Yes, the final judgment will be the final ruling on the matter -- but according to inaugurated eschatology, we are already judged righteous in Christ, even now, this side of heaven. Of course you know of Luther's simul justus et peccator -- the baptized faithful live, even now, so to speak, with one foot in heaven and one foot here on earth. We look forward to the day when both of our feet will be planted firmly in heaven.Lutherans *are* susceptible to antinomianism -- we always walk a fine line between error and truth. A slip to one way or the other leads to false doctrine.So, I guess what is bugging me is this... -- How do you, individual Orthodox believers, feel about your own salvation? Do you feel that you are saved, now, (understanding that you must remain in faith and repentance) and in this find comfort to persevere to the end? Or, do you live daily in uncertainty about your own salvation? If the latter is true, then does this not somehow lessen the work of Christ in His sacrificial death for your sins and the sins of the world?JiMi, I appreciate your reply. Thank you.JME+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+"He can no longer have God for his Father, who has not the Church for his mother."- St. Cyprian of Carthage"O wondrous mystery! One is the Father of all, one also the Word of all,and the Holy Spirit is one and the same everywhere. And there is only one Virgin Mother;I love to call her the Church." - St. Clement of AlexandriaRev. Jon M. EllingworthThe Lutheran Church of Christ the King14 Pine Drive Pawling, NY 12564Office 845.855.3169Home 845.855.2616E-Mail didache@...-Mail pawlinglutheran@... http://www.pawlinglutheran.orgBlog http://www.lesteverymanbeblind.blogspot.com[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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    • Brian Fink
      You mean Pastor isnt their first name after all? Brian ... From: tharman32 To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January
      Message 53 of 53 , Jan 23, 2008
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        You mean Pastor isnt their first name after all?

        Brian


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: tharman32 <tharman32@...>
        To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 7:21:54 PM
        Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Lutherans and Orthodox in Heaven?

        --- In LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com, "Rev. Jon M.
        Ellingworth" <didache@... > wrote:
        >
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