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Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Lutherans and Orthodox in Heaven?

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  • Christopher Orr
    *When the woman said she was absolutely sure that you would meet in heaven, her comment was not an Orthodox understanding.* An interesting question might be
    Message 1 of 53 , Jan 18, 2008
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      *When the woman said she was absolutely sure that you would meet in heaven,
      her comment was not an Orthodox understanding.*

      An interesting question might be not whether we will all meet after death,
      but whether we will experience that life as heaven or hell - whether we
      would experience each other as saints, or as burning fire. The great divide
      between Lazarus and the rich man was not geography.

      Christopher


      On 1/18/08, Rosemarie Lieffring <rose.lieffring@...> wrote:
      >
      > phos,
      >
      > What I will say is redundant and may lack the accuracy and precision of
      > those who have responded before me but sometimes it helps to hear the same
      > thing said a couple of different ways.
      >
      > You said "...and was absolutely sure that we would meet in Heaven, her
      > being
      > Orthodox and myself Lutheran - which I take to mean that in her thought
      > Lutherans were within the Church."
      >
      > Because the woman said that you will meet in heaven does not automatically
      > extend to her suggesting that the Lutheran church is within the Church.
      >
      > There are two key points here, "the Church" and "who is saved".
      >
      > The easiest point to address is "the Church". You'll find there can be
      > variations of opinion in Orthodoxy but one thing that is undeniably
      > constant
      > is the understanding that the Orthodox Church is "THE Church". Now, some
      > will say they don't know if others are in the Church and some will flat
      > out
      > say the others are not in the Church. The Patrick Barnes article goes into
      > this and his stance is the later while it appears Father Gregory's is the
      > former. (Do be careful with that article. You may find it off-putting. I
      > did and I was firmly convinced of the Truth of Orthodoxy at the time I
      > read
      > it.) And, of course, there are those sweet cradle Orthodox women whose
      > daughters have married protestants and, consequently are more open to see
      > others as part of the Church. It isn't the teaching of the Church but it
      > is
      > their opinion. The important thing to note here is no matter which
      > understanding an Orthodox person has about the Lutheran church, agnostic
      > or
      > definitely denying it to be part of the Church, it is not an assessment
      > about one's salvation.
      >
      > Regarding "who is saved"...generally, the Orthodox say they "don't know".
      > Not necessarily because someone is or is not in "the Church" but because
      > that decision is solely God's to make and, in addition, until one's
      > earthly
      > life is over, no one can be certain if he will reject Christ. (Anastacia
      > said all this very well.) Nonetheless, we trust God. We are absolutely
      > certain of His love for us and His great mercy. He'll work things out. But
      > we don't speak for Him.
      >
      > When the woman said she was absolutely sure that you would meet in heaven,
      > her comment was not an Orthodox understanding. It may have been her
      > personal opinion and, if we are honest, we all have a few "personal
      > heresies", as my priest calls them.
      >
      > I know it can be unsettling to hear the Orthodox talk about the Church if
      > one is not Orthodox. But it is what we believe. And I think it helps the
      > non-Orthodox come to terms with where they are. One can either reject the
      > Orthodox understanding of "the Church" and be comfortable where they are
      > or
      > seek Orthodoxy if that comfort is fleeting.-----R
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Brian Fink
      You mean Pastor isnt their first name after all? Brian ... From: tharman32 To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January
      Message 53 of 53 , Jan 23, 2008
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        You mean Pastor isnt their first name after all?

        Brian


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: tharman32 <tharman32@...>
        To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 7:21:54 PM
        Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Lutherans and Orthodox in Heaven?

        --- In LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com, "Rev. Jon M.
        Ellingworth" <didache@... > wrote:
        >
        Pastor (sorry, the Marine in me prevents me from using your first
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