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Re: Two Questions

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  • daved.driscoll
    Yes. I m not sure of the intended tone--but, seriously--my wayward younger 16-year-old little brother was very much brought back to the fold by such
    Message 1 of 29 , Nov 8, 2007
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      Yes. I'm not sure of the intended tone--but, seriously--my "wayward"
      younger 16-year-old little brother was very much brought "back to the
      fold" by such informalities. It has its place.
      --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, Brian Fink <brfinkster@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > What about "Ruba dub dub, thanks for the grub"?
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: Anastasia Theodoridis anastasiatheo01@...
      > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2007 4:11:01 PM
      > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Two Questions
      >
      > We pray, "Christ our God, bless the food and the drink of thy
      servants, for You alone are holy, unto ages of ages." Then, before the
      "Amen," we usually pray some extemporaneous things, always including,
      "Thank You for Your love," and then giving thanks for specific blessings
      of that day. "Thank you for Kostas' successful surgery," for example.
      >
      > Anastasia
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • JWF
      In the Western Rite, we commonly say this prayer before meals: Bless us, O Lord, and these thy gifts which we are about to receive from thy bounty, through
      Message 2 of 29 , Nov 8, 2007
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        In the Western Rite, we commonly say this prayer before meals:



        Bless us, O Lord, and these thy gifts which we are about to receive from thy
        bounty, through Christ our Lord.



        Apparently Luther used some close variation of this in his Small Catechism.



        There is also a longer set of prayers, which vary seasonally, from monastic
        usage.





        Fr John W Fenton

        Priest, Holy Incarnation Antiochian Orthodox Christian Church

        <mailto:frfenton@...> frfenton@...

        http://HolyIncarnation.org <http://holyincarnation.org/>

        <mailto:frfenton@...>

        _____

        From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anastasia
        Theodoridis
        Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:11 PM
        To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Two Questions



        We pray, "Christ our God, bless the food and the drink of thy servants, for
        You alone are holy, unto ages of ages." Then, before the "Amen," we usually
        pray some extemporaneous things, always including, "Thank You for Your
        love," and then giving thanks for specific blessings of that day. "Thank you
        for Kostas' successful surgery," for example.

        Anastasia

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • James
        ... from thy ... I ve used this prayer for several years now, since I spotted it in the little red prayer book that the Antiochian Archdiocese puts out. It
        Message 3 of 29 , Nov 8, 2007
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          --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "JWF" <frfenton@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > In the Western Rite, we commonly say this prayer before meals:
          >
          >
          >
          > Bless us, O Lord, and these thy gifts which we are about to receive
          from thy
          > bounty, through Christ our Lord.
          >


          I've used this prayer for several years now, since I spotted it in the
          little red prayer book that the Antiochian Archdiocese puts out. It
          was already familiar.

          First I say the Lord's Prayer, crossing myself (unless the situation
          seems that it would appear a spectacle or showy), and then "Bless us,
          O Lord.." making the sign of the cross over the food.
        • James
          I was reminded in an offline note that I probably should not worry so much about what others think and go ahead and cross myself. It seems my Priest said
          Message 4 of 29 , Nov 9, 2007
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            I was reminded in an offline note that I probably should not worry
            so much about what others think and go ahead and cross myself. It
            seems my Priest said essentially the same thing in a sermon awhile
            back. May the Lord strengthen my resolve and help me remember to do
            this.

            Yeah, I probably still have some of that old Lutheran "don't draw
            attention to oneself" mentality going, huh?

            James/JiMi

            p.s. - Thanks to Peter for reminding me I'm not in Lake Woebegone


            --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jimi@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "JWF" <frfenton@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > In the Western Rite, we commonly say this prayer before meals:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Bless us, O Lord, and these thy gifts which we are about to
            receive
            > from thy
            > > bounty, through Christ our Lord.
            > >
            >
            >
            > I've used this prayer for several years now, since I spotted it in
            the
            > little red prayer book that the Antiochian Archdiocese puts out.
            It
            > was already familiar.
            >
            > First I say the Lord's Prayer, crossing myself (unless the
            situation
            > seems that it would appear a spectacle or showy), and then "Bless
            us,
            > O Lord.." making the sign of the cross over the food.
            >
          • Christopher Orr
            I make the sign of the cross over my food because it is less conspicuous. I have also been struck by a comment made by the late Fr. John Krestiankin in the
            Message 5 of 29 , Nov 9, 2007
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              I make the sign of the cross over my food because it is less conspicuous.

              I have also been struck by a comment made by the late Fr. John Krestiankin
              in the book of his letters, "May God Give you Wisdom" (St Herman Press), to
              believing spouses of unbelievers. He said, essentially, don't go on too far
              ahead. The same can be true of unbelievers around us in everyday life - we
              can't be see as such odd ducks that we are disregarded. The Letter to
              Diognetus states clearly that we live as other men in various countries, but
              are always citizens only of heaven. In the world, but not of the world. I
              tend to prefer to be as 'normal' as the next guy insofar as I can remain an
              Orthodox Christian, never hiding, but never affecting differences to make a
              point. When St. Anthony the Great walked through Alexandria preaching
              without words, he was simply himself, in his regular, poor clothes, walking;
              he wasn't prostrating, and crossing, and raising his hands as an orans in
              prayer, etc. He was simply a Christian, walking.

              That being said, crossing oneself in prayer at any times should never be
              dissuaded. I often do so walking down the hallway of my office, on the
              street, etc., but as a means to bless myself with the cross and not to
              testify to others - and many take such actions to be a conscious attempt to
              make unbelievers uncomfortable or as a 'witness'.

              Christopher


              On 11/9/07, James <jimi@...> wrote:
              >
              > I was reminded in an offline note that I probably should not worry
              > so much about what others think and go ahead and cross myself. It
              > seems my Priest said essentially the same thing in a sermon awhile
              > back. May the Lord strengthen my resolve and help me remember to do
              > this.
              >
              > Yeah, I probably still have some of that old Lutheran "don't draw
              > attention to oneself" mentality going, huh?
              >
              > James/JiMi
              >
              > p.s. - Thanks to Peter for reminding me I'm not in Lake Woebegone
              >
              > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > "James" <jimi@...>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > "JWF" <frfenton@>
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > In the Western Rite, we commonly say this prayer before meals:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Bless us, O Lord, and these thy gifts which we are about to
              > receive
              > > from thy
              > > > bounty, through Christ our Lord.
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > I've used this prayer for several years now, since I spotted it in
              > the
              > > little red prayer book that the Antiochian Archdiocese puts out.
              > It
              > > was already familiar.
              > >
              > > First I say the Lord's Prayer, crossing myself (unless the
              > situation
              > > seems that it would appear a spectacle or showy), and then "Bless
              > us,
              > > O Lord.." making the sign of the cross over the food.
              > >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • phos_hilarion@hotmail.com
              Thank you, everyone, for sharing what you pray! As the Desert Fathers say, I was greatly edified. On being a witness... People are rarely converted because a
              Message 6 of 29 , Nov 9, 2007
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                Thank you, everyone, for sharing what you pray! As the Desert Fathers say, I was greatly edified.
                On being a witness...
                People are rarely converted because a stranger presses the Gospel in their face (or makes the sign of the cross in public). The more likely reason people convert is because they have a friend or family member that can be a constant witness to them. Quite fitting that they learn about the relationship Christ has with men through the relationship of the Christian to themselves.
                Thank you for being friends to me.

                Yours in Christ,
                phos








                To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.comFrom: xcjorr@...: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 09:35:09 -0500Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions





                I make the sign of the cross over my food because it is less conspicuous.I have also been struck by a comment made by the late Fr. John Krestiankinin the book of his letters, "May God Give you Wisdom" (St Herman Press), tobelieving spouses of unbelievers. He said, essentially, don't go on too farahead. The same can be true of unbelievers around us in everyday life - wecan't be see as such odd ducks that we are disregarded. The Letter toDiognetus states clearly that we live as other men in various countries, butare always citizens only of heaven. In the world, but not of the world. Itend to prefer to be as 'normal' as the next guy insofar as I can remain anOrthodox Christian, never hiding, but never affecting differences to make apoint. When St. Anthony the Great walked through Alexandria preachingwithout words, he was simply himself, in his regular, poor clothes, walking;he wasn't prostrating, and crossing, and raising his hands as an orans inprayer, etc. He was simply a Christian, walking.That being said, crossing oneself in prayer at any times should never bedissuaded. I often do so walking down the hallway of my office, on thestreet, etc., but as a means to bless myself with the cross and not totestify to others - and many take such actions to be a conscious attempt tomake unbelievers uncomfortable or as a 'witness'.ChristopherOn 11/9/07, James <jimi@...> wrote:>> I was reminded in an offline note that I probably should not worry> so much about what others think and go ahead and cross myself. It> seems my Priest said essentially the same thing in a sermon awhile> back. May the Lord strengthen my resolve and help me remember to do> this.>> Yeah, I probably still have some of that old Lutheran "don't draw> attention to oneself" mentality going, huh?>> James/JiMi>> p.s. - Thanks to Peter for reminding me I'm not in Lake Woebegone>> --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,> "James" <jimi@...>> wrote:> >> > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,> "JWF" <frfenton@>> > wrote:> > >> > > In the Western Rite, we commonly say this prayer before meals:> > >> > >> > >> > > Bless us, O Lord, and these thy gifts which we are about to> receive> > from thy> > > bounty, through Christ our Lord.> > >> >> >> > I've used this prayer for several years now, since I spotted it in> the> > little red prayer book that the Antiochian Archdiocese puts out.> It> > was already familiar.> >> > First I say the Lord's Prayer, crossing myself (unless the> situation> > seems that it would appear a spectacle or showy), and then "Bless> us,> > O Lord.." making the sign of the cross over the food.> >>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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              • Lisa
                with respect to blessing food/crossing oneself in public (and being deeply in the Lutheran-don t-draw-attention-to-yourself mind) what do you non-clergy do
                Message 7 of 29 , Nov 9, 2007
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                  with respect to blessing food/crossing oneself in public (and being
                  deeply in the Lutheran-don't-draw-attention-to-yourself mind)

                  what do you non-clergy do when in a situation like going out to lunch
                  or dinner with co-workers? Pray silently, cross yourself ...? (and I am
                  making a distinction between coworkers and other friends you might
                  share meals with)

                  Lisa
                • Brian Fink
                  Dear Dave, Im a sleep deprived father of three... I cant do anything seriously anymore. Brian ... From: daved.driscoll To:
                  Message 8 of 29 , Nov 10, 2007
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                    Dear Dave,
                    Im a sleep deprived father of three... I cant do anything seriously anymore.

                    Brian


                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: daved.driscoll <NorthlandWords@...>
                    To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2007 1:01:18 PM
                    Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions

                    Yes. I'm not sure of the intended tone--but, seriously--my "wayward"
                    younger 16-year-old little brother was very much brought "back to the
                    fold" by such informalities. It has its place.
                    --- In LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com, Brian Fink <brfinkster@ ...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > What about "Ruba dub dub, thanks for the grub"?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message ----
                    > From: Anastasia Theodoridis anastasiatheo01@ ...
                    > To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                    > Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2007 4:11:01 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEa st] Two Questions
                    >
                    > We pray, "Christ our God, bless the food and the drink of thy
                    servants, for You alone are holy, unto ages of ages." Then, before the
                    "Amen," we usually pray some extemporaneous things, always including,
                    "Thank You for Your love," and then giving thanks for specific blessings
                    of that day. "Thank you for Kostas' successful surgery," for example.
                    >
                    > Anastasia
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Anastasia Theodoridis
                    Dave, I ve known Brian (via the Internet) enough years not to need worry about what he means. ... Anastasia [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    Message 9 of 29 , Nov 10, 2007
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                      Dave, I've known Brian (via the Internet) enough years not to need worry about what he means.

                      :-)

                      Anastasia



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Northland Words
                      Hello Anastasia- Thanks for the note and the concern. I wasn t worried, but concurring. Freedom and familiarity with Him, while insolent, is perhaps no more
                      Message 10 of 29 , Nov 11, 2007
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                        Hello Anastasia-

                        Thanks for the note and the concern. I wasn't worried, but concurring.
                        Freedom and familiarity with Him, while insolent, is perhaps no more
                        insolent than all our other human attempts to honor Him, even when
                        undertaken with what we feel as earnest solemnity. It is only by His Grace
                        that He accepts our solemn prayers rather than laughing at them. (But I
                        probably chose an unfortunate e-mail to chime in.)



                        Thanks for all your posts-I read them eagerly.

                        Daved



                        _____

                        From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anastasia
                        Theodoridis
                        Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 7:47 AM
                        To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions



                        Dave, I've known Brian (via the Internet) enough years not to need worry
                        about what he means.

                        :-)

                        Anastasia

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Northland Words
                        Thanks, Brian- My seven children regularly trundle me off to bed, these days, so I lack that clarity of humor that sleep deprivation so graciously provides.
                        Message 11 of 29 , Nov 11, 2007
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                          Thanks, Brian-

                          My seven children regularly trundle me off to bed, these days, so I lack
                          that clarity of humor that sleep deprivation so graciously provides. Enjoy
                          it. I was glad to see your rubba dub dub (which I understand to be an Early
                          Slovakian phrase meaning rubba dub dub).



                          I can still see my father trying to pat his head, rub his stomach, and fold
                          his hands-all the while addressing this jocular thanksgiving to His Gracious
                          Creator. At the same time, my "this-church-junk-is-a-bunch-of-stuff"
                          brother laughing and joining my father in thanksgiving. My note was
                          probably out of place in this solemn forum. Nonetheless: Yeah God!

                          Thanks,

                          Daved



                          _____

                          From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                          [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fink
                          Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:14 AM
                          To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions



                          Dear Dave,
                          Im a sleep deprived father of three... I cant do anything seriously anymore.

                          Brian

                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: daved.driscoll <NorthlandWords@ <mailto:NorthlandWords%40acegroup.cc>
                          acegroup.cc>
                          To: LutheransLookingEas <mailto:LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
                          t@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2007 1:01:18 PM
                          Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions

                          Yes. I'm not sure of the intended tone--but, seriously--my "wayward"
                          younger 16-year-old little brother was very much brought "back to the
                          fold" by such informalities. It has its place.
                          --- In LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com, Brian Fink <brfinkster@ ...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > What about "Ruba dub dub, thanks for the grub"?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message ----
                          > From: Anastasia Theodoridis anastasiatheo01@ ...
                          > To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                          > Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2007 4:11:01 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEa st] Two Questions
                          >
                          > We pray, "Christ our God, bless the food and the drink of thy
                          servants, for You alone are holy, unto ages of ages." Then, before the
                          "Amen," we usually pray some extemporaneous things, always including,
                          "Thank You for Your love," and then giving thanks for specific blessings
                          of that day. "Thank you for Kostas' successful surgery," for example.
                          >
                          > Anastasia
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Northland Words
                          er . . . I obviously meant his [my dad s] Gracious Creator, not His Gracious Creator. I trust that God, in His beneficence, will forgive yet another
                          Message 12 of 29 , Nov 11, 2007
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                            er . . . I obviously meant "his [my dad's] Gracious Creator," not "His
                            Gracious Creator." I trust that God, in His beneficence, will forgive yet
                            another insult from me. Yikes.

                            _____

                            From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Northland Words
                            Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:06 PM
                            To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions



                            Thanks, Brian-

                            My seven children regularly trundle me off to bed, these days, so I lack
                            that clarity of humor that sleep deprivation so graciously provides. Enjoy
                            it. I was glad to see your rubba dub dub (which I understand to be an Early
                            Slovakian phrase meaning rubba dub dub).

                            I can still see my father trying to pat his head, rub his stomach, and fold
                            his hands-all the while addressing this jocular thanksgiving to His Gracious
                            Creator. At the same time, my "this-church-junk-is-a-bunch-of-stuff"
                            brother laughing and joining my father in thanksgiving. My note was
                            probably out of place in this solemn forum. Nonetheless: Yeah God!

                            Thanks,

                            Daved

                            _____

                            From: LutheransLookingEas <mailto:LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
                            t@yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:LutheransLookingEas <mailto:LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
                            t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fink
                            Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:14 AM
                            To: LutheransLookingEas <mailto:LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
                            t@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions

                            Dear Dave,
                            Im a sleep deprived father of three... I cant do anything seriously anymore.

                            Brian

                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: daved.driscoll <NorthlandWords@ <mailto:NorthlandWords%40acegroup.cc>
                            acegroup.cc>
                            To: LutheransLookingEas <mailto:LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
                            t@yahoogroups. <mailto:t%40yahoogroups.com> com
                            Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2007 1:01:18 PM
                            Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions

                            Yes. I'm not sure of the intended tone--but, seriously--my "wayward"
                            younger 16-year-old little brother was very much brought "back to the
                            fold" by such informalities. It has its place.
                            --- In LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com, Brian Fink <brfinkster@ ...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > What about "Ruba dub dub, thanks for the grub"?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message ----
                            > From: Anastasia Theodoridis anastasiatheo01@ ...
                            > To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                            > Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2007 4:11:01 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEa st] Two Questions
                            >
                            > We pray, "Christ our God, bless the food and the drink of thy
                            servants, for You alone are holy, unto ages of ages." Then, before the
                            "Amen," we usually pray some extemporaneous things, always including,
                            "Thank You for Your love," and then giving thanks for specific blessings
                            of that day. "Thank you for Kostas' successful surgery," for example.
                            >
                            > Anastasia
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Anastasia Theodoridis
                            Hi, Dave,, Brian wasn t poking fun at God, either, but at us, the Orthodox. He doesn t feel that free and familiar with God. BTW, he s a seminarian at Holy
                            Message 13 of 29 , Nov 11, 2007
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                              Hi, Dave,,

                              Brian wasn't poking fun at God, either, but at us, the Orthodox. He doesn't feel that free and familiar with God. BTW, he's a seminarian at Holy Cross in Brookline. Well, his studies there have been interrupted by family matters, so he's not DOING seminary at the moment, but as he certainly intends to continue, I suppose we could still call him a seminarian.

                              I also look forward to your notes. It must be so weird to be an Orthodox among those Lutherans!

                              Seven children! You are amazing.

                              love,
                              Anastasia
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Northland Words
                              To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:54 PM
                              Subject: RE: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions


                              Hello Anastasia-

                              Thanks for the note and the concern. I wasn't worried, but concurring.
                              Freedom and familiarity with Him, while insolent, is perhaps no more
                              insolent than all our other human attempts to honor Him, even when
                              undertaken with what we feel as earnest solemnity. It is only by His Grace
                              that He accepts our solemn prayers rather than laughing at them. (But I
                              probably chose an unfortunate e-mail to chime in.)

                              Thanks for all your posts-I read them eagerly.

                              Daved

                              _____

                              From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                              [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anastasia
                              Theodoridis
                              Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 7:47 AM
                              To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions

                              Dave, I've known Brian (via the Internet) enough years not to need worry
                              about what he means.

                              :-)

                              Anastasia

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Brian Fink
                              Dear Dave, I m serious about my faith and the Orthodox church. But we do have fun at times too. Read www.theoniondome.com sometime. Its not as good as it
                              Message 14 of 29 , Nov 13, 2007
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                                Dear Dave,

                                I'm serious about my faith and the Orthodox church. But we do have fun at times too. Read www.theoniondome.com sometime. Its not as good as it used to be, but still pretty funny.

                                Once, I was carrying the crucifix for the Great Procession. When I came in from the right deacons door, there was no room for me to stop and put the crucifix back in its holder. So I had to keep going to let everyone behind me by, carrying this 8 ft tall crucifix. The assistant ecclesiarch looked at me oddly and told me, "I know Jesus told us to pick up and carry our cross but you CAN put that one down back there." My spiritual father and quite a few members of the faculty at HCHC are quite humorous about theology. Maybe its just me, but the Greeks are FAR funnier than the Russians :-P

                                One joke about the Orthodox seminaries is that at St. Tikhon's, you learn to swing a censer properly. At St. Vlad's, a seminarian learns the theology about swinging a censor. At Holy Cross, we learn how to raise money through a Greek festival and get the best deal on a censor.

                                Overall things are going well. I'm working two part time jobs and on Mondays and Tuesdays, I'm up from 6am to 1am which makes for a LONG day. I'm hoping that the first part-time job, manageing a help desk for a 4 person network management company will go full-time and I acan quit the 4-midnight job. I miss classes dearly. I've been counting down the months until I go back to school, 2 down and 10 to go.

                                Brian


                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: Anastasia Theodoridis <anastasiatheo01@...>
                                To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 1:25:54 AM
                                Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions

                                Hi, Dave,,

                                Brian wasn't poking fun at God, either, but at us, the Orthodox. He doesn't feel that free and familiar with God. BTW, he's a seminarian at Holy Cross in Brookline. Well, his studies there have been interrupted by family matters, so he's not DOING seminary at the moment, but as he certainly intends to continue, I suppose we could still call him a seminarian.

                                I also look forward to your notes. It must be so weird to be an Orthodox among those Lutherans!

                                Seven children! You are amazing.

                                love,
                                Anastasia
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Northland Words
                                To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                                Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:54 PM
                                Subject: RE: [LutheransLookingEa st] Re: Two Questions

                                Hello Anastasia-

                                Thanks for the note and the concern. I wasn't worried, but concurring.
                                Freedom and familiarity with Him, while insolent, is perhaps no more
                                insolent than all our other human attempts to honor Him, even when
                                undertaken with what we feel as earnest solemnity. It is only by His Grace
                                that He accepts our solemn prayers rather than laughing at them. (But I
                                probably chose an unfortunate e-mail to chime in.)

                                Thanks for all your posts-I read them eagerly.

                                Daved

                                _____

                                From: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                                [mailto:LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Anastasia
                                Theodoridis
                                Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 7:47 AM
                                To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEa st] Re: Two Questions

                                Dave, I've known Brian (via the Internet) enough years not to need worry
                                about what he means.

                                :-)

                                Anastasia

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • James
                                Dear Brian, My friend Antone Meyer is currently a student there. He had intended to start when you did, but ended up needing to delay a year. Perhaps you
                                Message 15 of 29 , Nov 13, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Dear Brian,

                                  My friend Antone Meyer is currently a student there. He had intended
                                  to start when you did, but ended up needing to delay a year. Perhaps
                                  you will graduate in the same class. Antone is one of four persons
                                  from my parish that graduated from Evangel University. Antone even
                                  lived on the same exact hall of the same dorm I did, only a few years
                                  later.

                                  May the joy of the Lord be your strength!

                                  James in Des Moines

                                  --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, Brian Fink
                                  <brfinkster@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Dear Dave,
                                  >
                                  > I'm serious about my faith and the Orthodox church. But we do have
                                  fun at times too. Read www.theoniondome.com sometime. Its not as
                                  good as it used to be, but still pretty funny.
                                  >
                                  > Once, I was carrying the crucifix for the Great Procession. When I
                                  came in from the right deacons door, there was no room for me to stop
                                  and put the crucifix back in its holder. So I had to keep going to
                                  let everyone behind me by, carrying this 8 ft tall crucifix. The
                                  assistant ecclesiarch looked at me oddly and told me, "I know Jesus
                                  told us to pick up and carry our cross but you CAN put that one down
                                  back there." My spiritual father and quite a few members of the
                                  faculty at HCHC are quite humorous about theology. Maybe its just
                                  me, but the Greeks are FAR funnier than the Russians :-P
                                  >
                                  > One joke about the Orthodox seminaries is that at St. Tikhon's, you
                                  learn to swing a censer properly. At St. Vlad's, a seminarian learns
                                  the theology about swinging a censor. At Holy Cross, we learn how to
                                  raise money through a Greek festival and get the best deal on a
                                  censor.
                                  >
                                  > Overall things are going well. I'm working two part time jobs and
                                  on Mondays and Tuesdays, I'm up from 6am to 1am which makes for a
                                  LONG day. I'm hoping that the first part-time job, manageing a help
                                  desk for a 4 person network management company will go full-time and
                                  I acan quit the 4-midnight job. I miss classes dearly. I've been
                                  counting down the months until I go back to school, 2 down and 10 to
                                  go.
                                  >
                                  > Brian
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Northland Words
                                  Hi Brian- The psychology of humor is pretty revealing about human motivation and intention-about our fears and weaknesses. I ve never seen it discussed, much,
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Nov 14, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hi Brian-

                                    The psychology of humor is pretty revealing about human motivation and
                                    intention-about our fears and weaknesses. I've never seen it discussed,
                                    much, in theological terms, however. It would be, I think, a rich mine. We
                                    are often amused by the attempts of children to be earnest and solemn. But
                                    in one sense, we are all little children. The link you sent, theoniondome,
                                    seems to concur: "God laughs at the foolishness of men (Psalm 2:4); I think
                                    it is healthy for us to laugh at ourselves."



                                    In another sense, of course, we are His Bride or we are a royal priesthood
                                    or co-heirs with Christ. And to the extent that those bolder metaphors
                                    apply, laughing at our foibles or treating Him with jocular familiarity may
                                    be less appropriate. The awareness of our own weakness, however, can hardly
                                    be emphasized too strongly.



                                    The job world does sound tough. Ten months to go? I hope you can hang on.



                                    Daved





                                    _____

                                    From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                    [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fink
                                    Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 9:26 AM
                                    To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions



                                    Dear Dave,

                                    I'm serious about my faith and the Orthodox church. But we do have fun at
                                    times too. Read www.theoniondome.com sometime. Its not as good as it used to
                                    be, but still pretty funny.

                                    Once, I was carrying the crucifix for the Great Procession. When I came in
                                    from the right deacons door, there was no room for me to stop and put the
                                    crucifix back in its holder. So I had to keep going to let everyone behind
                                    me by, carrying this 8 ft tall crucifix. The assistant ecclesiarch looked at
                                    me oddly and told me, "I know Jesus told us to pick up and carry our cross
                                    but you CAN put that one down back there." My spiritual father and quite a
                                    few members of the faculty at HCHC are quite humorous about theology. Maybe
                                    its just me, but the Greeks are FAR funnier than the Russians :-P

                                    One joke about the Orthodox seminaries is that at St. Tikhon's, you learn to
                                    swing a censer properly. At St. Vlad's, a seminarian learns the theology
                                    about swinging a censor. At Holy Cross, we learn how to raise money through
                                    a Greek festival and get the best deal on a censor.

                                    Overall things are going well. I'm working two part time jobs and on Mondays
                                    and Tuesdays, I'm up from 6am to 1am which makes for a LONG day. I'm hoping
                                    that the first part-time job, manageing a help desk for a 4 person network
                                    management company will go full-time and I acan quit the 4-midnight job. I
                                    miss classes dearly. I've been counting down the months until I go back to
                                    school, 2 down and 10 to go.

                                    Brian

                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                    From: Anastasia Theodoridis <anastasiatheo01@
                                    <mailto:anastasiatheo01%40verizon.net> verizon.net>
                                    To: LutheransLookingEas <mailto:LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    t@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 1:25:54 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions

                                    Hi, Dave,,

                                    Brian wasn't poking fun at God, either, but at us, the Orthodox. He doesn't
                                    feel that free and familiar with God. BTW, he's a seminarian at Holy Cross
                                    in Brookline. Well, his studies there have been interrupted by family
                                    matters, so he's not DOING seminary at the moment, but as he certainly
                                    intends to continue, I suppose we could still call him a seminarian.

                                    I also look forward to your notes. It must be so weird to be an Orthodox
                                    among those Lutherans!

                                    Seven children! You are amazing.

                                    love,
                                    Anastasia
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Northland Words
                                    To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                                    Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:54 PM
                                    Subject: RE: [LutheransLookingEa st] Re: Two Questions

                                    Hello Anastasia-

                                    Thanks for the note and the concern. I wasn't worried, but concurring.
                                    Freedom and familiarity with Him, while insolent, is perhaps no more
                                    insolent than all our other human attempts to honor Him, even when
                                    undertaken with what we feel as earnest solemnity. It is only by His Grace
                                    that He accepts our solemn prayers rather than laughing at them. (But I
                                    probably chose an unfortunate e-mail to chime in.)

                                    Thanks for all your posts-I read them eagerly.

                                    Daved

                                    _____

                                    From: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                                    [mailto:LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Anastasia
                                    Theodoridis
                                    Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 7:47 AM
                                    To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                                    Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEa st] Re: Two Questions

                                    Dave, I've known Brian (via the Internet) enough years not to need worry
                                    about what he means.

                                    :-)

                                    Anastasia

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • tharman32
                                    I have a couple of questions I was hoping the group could offer some insight on. Does the Orthodox church beleive in the total depravity of humans after the
                                    Message 17 of 29 , May 11, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I have a couple of questions I was hoping the group could offer some
                                      insight on.

                                      Does the Orthodox church beleive in the total depravity of humans after
                                      the Fall? When I read the saints I see they are well aware of thier
                                      sinfulness and their need for God's grace, but are we "that bad"?
                                      (Sorry to phrase it in such a trivial manner, but I can't find the
                                      right words...)

                                      Also does the Orthodox church believe in the "angry God" theory? (ie
                                      the "sinners in the hands of an angry God theology"). From my limited
                                      knowledge I beleive the answer is a loud no. But I am not sure.

                                      Thank you for any insight or recommended readings you suggest!
                                      Todd
                                    • Fr John Fenton
                                      Hi Todd, Christ ist auferstanden! (for the German speaking) You asked two straight-forward questions, so permit me to give straight-forward answers. 1. The
                                      Message 18 of 29 , May 12, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Hi Todd,

                                        Christ ist auferstanden! (for the German speaking)

                                        You asked two straight-forward questions, so permit me to give straight-forward answers.

                                        1. The doctrine of the "total depravity of man" is a distinctly Calvinist or Arminian (NOT Armenian) teaching, which is often ascribed or held by Lutherans and is understandably but incorrectly ascribed to St Augustine, is roundly rejected by the Orthodox Church. Among other things, it is built upon the notions of original guilt which is also rejected by the Church.

                                        2. While the Scriptures speak of God's anger, the "angry God theory" is rejected by the Church. Among other things, it suggests a dual personality in God and ascribes to Him a sinful human characteristic.

                                        Certainly, the answers to these questions are more much nuanced and therefore will most likely raise other questions. For reading, let me suggest "The Orthodox Way" by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware and "Byzantine Theology" by Fr John Meyendorff.




                                        Fr John W Fenton, Priest
                                        Holy Incarnation Orthodox Church
                                        A Western Rite Parish in the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America

                                        frfenton@...
                                        www.holyincarnation.org






                                        ----- Original Message ----
                                        From: tharman32 <tharman32@...>
                                        To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 4:34:56 PM
                                        Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Two Questions

                                        I have a couple of questions I was hoping the group could offer some
                                        insight on.

                                        Does the Orthodox church beleive in the total depravity of humans after
                                        the Fall? When I read the saints I see they are well aware of thier
                                        sinfulness and their need for God's grace, but are we "that bad"?
                                        (Sorry to phrase it in such a trivial manner, but I can't find the
                                        right words...)

                                        Also does the Orthodox church believe in the "angry God" theory? (ie
                                        the "sinners in the hands of an angry God theology"). From my limited
                                        knowledge I beleive the answer is a loud no. But I am not sure.

                                        Thank you for any insight or recommended readings you suggest!
                                        Todd




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • BPeter Brandt-Sorheim
                                        Todd, For me the Orthodox perspective is positive. It does not matter how badly a human person is damaged by error / sin, as the person remains at core God s
                                        Message 19 of 29 , May 12, 2008
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                                          Todd,

                                          For me the Orthodox perspective is positive.

                                          It does not matter how badly a human person is damaged by error / sin,
                                          as the person remains at core God's good creation and is therefore
                                          capable of restoration.

                                          Any other view leads to hatred towards God.

                                          God is angry with sin but loves the sinner.
                                          In Jesus Christ love overcomes anger.
                                          We live in this new contract / testamentum with God.

                                          Peter




                                          tharman32 <tharman32@...> wrote:
                                          I have a couple of questions I was hoping the group could offer some
                                          insight on.

                                          Does the Orthodox church beleive in the total depravity of humans after
                                          the Fall? When I read the saints I see they are well aware of thier
                                          sinfulness and their need for God's grace, but are we "that bad"?
                                          (Sorry to phrase it in such a trivial manner, but I can't find the
                                          right words...)

                                          Also does the Orthodox church believe in the "angry God" theory? (ie
                                          the "sinners in the hands of an angry God theology"). From my limited
                                          knowledge I beleive the answer is a loud no. But I am not sure.

                                          Thank you for any insight or recommended readings you suggest!
                                          Todd






                                          ---------------------------------
                                          Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Dave @¿@¬
                                          Howdy Todd! Er ist wahrhaftig auferstanden! The total depravity of man would seem to contradict the Orthodox concepts of sin and theosis. How is man to become
                                          Message 20 of 29 , May 19, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Howdy Todd!

                                            Er ist wahrhaftig auferstanden!

                                            The total depravity of man would seem to contradict
                                            the Orthodox concepts of sin and theosis.

                                            How is man to "become a god" (lower case "g") unless
                                            there is still some element within man that would allow
                                            God to work this change within him?

                                            Dave


                                            --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, Fr John Fenton
                                            <frfenton@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Hi Todd,
                                            >
                                            > Christ ist auferstanden! (for the German speaking)
                                            >
                                            > You asked two straight-forward questions, so permit me to give
                                            straight-forward answers.
                                            >
                                            > 1. The doctrine of the "total depravity of man" is a distinctly
                                            Calvinist or Arminian (NOT Armenian) teaching, which is often
                                            ascribed or held by Lutherans and is understandably but incorrectly
                                            ascribed to St Augustine, is roundly rejected by the Orthodox
                                            Church. Among other things, it is built upon the notions of original
                                            guilt which is also rejected by the Church.
                                            >
                                            > 2. While the Scriptures speak of God's anger, the "angry God
                                            theory" is rejected by the Church. Among other things, it suggests a
                                            dual personality in God and ascribes to Him a sinful human
                                            characteristic.
                                            >
                                            > Certainly, the answers to these questions are more much nuanced
                                            and therefore will most likely raise other questions. For reading,
                                            let me suggest "The Orthodox Way" by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware
                                            and "Byzantine Theology" by Fr John Meyendorff.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Fr John W Fenton, Priest
                                            > Holy Incarnation Orthodox Church
                                            > A Western Rite Parish in the Antiochian Orthodox Christian
                                            Archdiocese of North America
                                            >
                                            > frfenton@...
                                            > www.holyincarnation.org
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message ----
                                            > From: tharman32 <tharman32@...>
                                            > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 4:34:56 PM
                                            > Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Two Questions
                                            >
                                            > I have a couple of questions I was hoping the group could offer
                                            some
                                            > insight on.
                                            >
                                            > Does the Orthodox church beleive in the total depravity of humans
                                            after
                                            > the Fall? When I read the saints I see they are well aware of
                                            thier
                                            > sinfulness and their need for God's grace, but are we "that bad"?
                                            > (Sorry to phrase it in such a trivial manner, but I can't find the
                                            > right words...)
                                            >
                                            > Also does the Orthodox church believe in the "angry God" theory?
                                            (ie
                                            > the "sinners in the hands of an angry God theology"). From my
                                            limited
                                            > knowledge I beleive the answer is a loud no. But I am not sure.
                                            >
                                            > Thank you for any insight or recommended readings you suggest!
                                            > Todd
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
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