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Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Two Questions

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  • Anastasia Theodoridis
    We pray, Christ our God, bless the food and the drink of thy servants, for You alone are holy, unto ages of ages. Then, before the Amen, we usually pray
    Message 1 of 29 , Nov 6, 2007
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      We pray, "Christ our God, bless the food and the drink of thy servants, for You alone are holy, unto ages of ages." Then, before the "Amen," we usually pray some extemporaneous things, always including, "Thank You for Your love," and then giving thanks for specific blessings of that day. "Thank you for Kostas' successful surgery," for example.

      Anastasia




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Brian Fink
      What about Ruba dub dub, thanks for the grub ? ... From: Anastasia Theodoridis To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com Sent:
      Message 2 of 29 , Nov 8, 2007
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        What about "Ruba dub dub, thanks for the grub"?



        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Anastasia Theodoridis <anastasiatheo01@...>
        To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2007 4:11:01 PM
        Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Two Questions

        We pray, "Christ our God, bless the food and the drink of thy servants, for You alone are holy, unto ages of ages." Then, before the "Amen," we usually pray some extemporaneous things, always including, "Thank You for Your love," and then giving thanks for specific blessings of that day. "Thank you for Kostas' successful surgery," for example.

        Anastasia

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • daved.driscoll
        Yes. I m not sure of the intended tone--but, seriously--my wayward younger 16-year-old little brother was very much brought back to the fold by such
        Message 3 of 29 , Nov 8, 2007
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          Yes. I'm not sure of the intended tone--but, seriously--my "wayward"
          younger 16-year-old little brother was very much brought "back to the
          fold" by such informalities. It has its place.
          --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, Brian Fink <brfinkster@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > What about "Ruba dub dub, thanks for the grub"?
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message ----
          > From: Anastasia Theodoridis anastasiatheo01@...
          > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2007 4:11:01 PM
          > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Two Questions
          >
          > We pray, "Christ our God, bless the food and the drink of thy
          servants, for You alone are holy, unto ages of ages." Then, before the
          "Amen," we usually pray some extemporaneous things, always including,
          "Thank You for Your love," and then giving thanks for specific blessings
          of that day. "Thank you for Kostas' successful surgery," for example.
          >
          > Anastasia
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • JWF
          In the Western Rite, we commonly say this prayer before meals: Bless us, O Lord, and these thy gifts which we are about to receive from thy bounty, through
          Message 4 of 29 , Nov 8, 2007
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            In the Western Rite, we commonly say this prayer before meals:



            Bless us, O Lord, and these thy gifts which we are about to receive from thy
            bounty, through Christ our Lord.



            Apparently Luther used some close variation of this in his Small Catechism.



            There is also a longer set of prayers, which vary seasonally, from monastic
            usage.





            Fr John W Fenton

            Priest, Holy Incarnation Antiochian Orthodox Christian Church

            <mailto:frfenton@...> frfenton@...

            http://HolyIncarnation.org <http://holyincarnation.org/>

            <mailto:frfenton@...>

            _____

            From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anastasia
            Theodoridis
            Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:11 PM
            To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Two Questions



            We pray, "Christ our God, bless the food and the drink of thy servants, for
            You alone are holy, unto ages of ages." Then, before the "Amen," we usually
            pray some extemporaneous things, always including, "Thank You for Your
            love," and then giving thanks for specific blessings of that day. "Thank you
            for Kostas' successful surgery," for example.

            Anastasia

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • James
            ... from thy ... I ve used this prayer for several years now, since I spotted it in the little red prayer book that the Antiochian Archdiocese puts out. It
            Message 5 of 29 , Nov 8, 2007
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              --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "JWF" <frfenton@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > In the Western Rite, we commonly say this prayer before meals:
              >
              >
              >
              > Bless us, O Lord, and these thy gifts which we are about to receive
              from thy
              > bounty, through Christ our Lord.
              >


              I've used this prayer for several years now, since I spotted it in the
              little red prayer book that the Antiochian Archdiocese puts out. It
              was already familiar.

              First I say the Lord's Prayer, crossing myself (unless the situation
              seems that it would appear a spectacle or showy), and then "Bless us,
              O Lord.." making the sign of the cross over the food.
            • James
              I was reminded in an offline note that I probably should not worry so much about what others think and go ahead and cross myself. It seems my Priest said
              Message 6 of 29 , Nov 9, 2007
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                I was reminded in an offline note that I probably should not worry
                so much about what others think and go ahead and cross myself. It
                seems my Priest said essentially the same thing in a sermon awhile
                back. May the Lord strengthen my resolve and help me remember to do
                this.

                Yeah, I probably still have some of that old Lutheran "don't draw
                attention to oneself" mentality going, huh?

                James/JiMi

                p.s. - Thanks to Peter for reminding me I'm not in Lake Woebegone


                --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jimi@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "JWF" <frfenton@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > In the Western Rite, we commonly say this prayer before meals:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Bless us, O Lord, and these thy gifts which we are about to
                receive
                > from thy
                > > bounty, through Christ our Lord.
                > >
                >
                >
                > I've used this prayer for several years now, since I spotted it in
                the
                > little red prayer book that the Antiochian Archdiocese puts out.
                It
                > was already familiar.
                >
                > First I say the Lord's Prayer, crossing myself (unless the
                situation
                > seems that it would appear a spectacle or showy), and then "Bless
                us,
                > O Lord.." making the sign of the cross over the food.
                >
              • Christopher Orr
                I make the sign of the cross over my food because it is less conspicuous. I have also been struck by a comment made by the late Fr. John Krestiankin in the
                Message 7 of 29 , Nov 9, 2007
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                  I make the sign of the cross over my food because it is less conspicuous.

                  I have also been struck by a comment made by the late Fr. John Krestiankin
                  in the book of his letters, "May God Give you Wisdom" (St Herman Press), to
                  believing spouses of unbelievers. He said, essentially, don't go on too far
                  ahead. The same can be true of unbelievers around us in everyday life - we
                  can't be see as such odd ducks that we are disregarded. The Letter to
                  Diognetus states clearly that we live as other men in various countries, but
                  are always citizens only of heaven. In the world, but not of the world. I
                  tend to prefer to be as 'normal' as the next guy insofar as I can remain an
                  Orthodox Christian, never hiding, but never affecting differences to make a
                  point. When St. Anthony the Great walked through Alexandria preaching
                  without words, he was simply himself, in his regular, poor clothes, walking;
                  he wasn't prostrating, and crossing, and raising his hands as an orans in
                  prayer, etc. He was simply a Christian, walking.

                  That being said, crossing oneself in prayer at any times should never be
                  dissuaded. I often do so walking down the hallway of my office, on the
                  street, etc., but as a means to bless myself with the cross and not to
                  testify to others - and many take such actions to be a conscious attempt to
                  make unbelievers uncomfortable or as a 'witness'.

                  Christopher


                  On 11/9/07, James <jimi@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I was reminded in an offline note that I probably should not worry
                  > so much about what others think and go ahead and cross myself. It
                  > seems my Priest said essentially the same thing in a sermon awhile
                  > back. May the Lord strengthen my resolve and help me remember to do
                  > this.
                  >
                  > Yeah, I probably still have some of that old Lutheran "don't draw
                  > attention to oneself" mentality going, huh?
                  >
                  > James/JiMi
                  >
                  > p.s. - Thanks to Peter for reminding me I'm not in Lake Woebegone
                  >
                  > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > "James" <jimi@...>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > "JWF" <frfenton@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > In the Western Rite, we commonly say this prayer before meals:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Bless us, O Lord, and these thy gifts which we are about to
                  > receive
                  > > from thy
                  > > > bounty, through Christ our Lord.
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I've used this prayer for several years now, since I spotted it in
                  > the
                  > > little red prayer book that the Antiochian Archdiocese puts out.
                  > It
                  > > was already familiar.
                  > >
                  > > First I say the Lord's Prayer, crossing myself (unless the
                  > situation
                  > > seems that it would appear a spectacle or showy), and then "Bless
                  > us,
                  > > O Lord.." making the sign of the cross over the food.
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • phos_hilarion@hotmail.com
                  Thank you, everyone, for sharing what you pray! As the Desert Fathers say, I was greatly edified. On being a witness... People are rarely converted because a
                  Message 8 of 29 , Nov 9, 2007
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                    Thank you, everyone, for sharing what you pray! As the Desert Fathers say, I was greatly edified.
                    On being a witness...
                    People are rarely converted because a stranger presses the Gospel in their face (or makes the sign of the cross in public). The more likely reason people convert is because they have a friend or family member that can be a constant witness to them. Quite fitting that they learn about the relationship Christ has with men through the relationship of the Christian to themselves.
                    Thank you for being friends to me.

                    Yours in Christ,
                    phos








                    To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.comFrom: xcjorr@...: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 09:35:09 -0500Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions





                    I make the sign of the cross over my food because it is less conspicuous.I have also been struck by a comment made by the late Fr. John Krestiankinin the book of his letters, "May God Give you Wisdom" (St Herman Press), tobelieving spouses of unbelievers. He said, essentially, don't go on too farahead. The same can be true of unbelievers around us in everyday life - wecan't be see as such odd ducks that we are disregarded. The Letter toDiognetus states clearly that we live as other men in various countries, butare always citizens only of heaven. In the world, but not of the world. Itend to prefer to be as 'normal' as the next guy insofar as I can remain anOrthodox Christian, never hiding, but never affecting differences to make apoint. When St. Anthony the Great walked through Alexandria preachingwithout words, he was simply himself, in his regular, poor clothes, walking;he wasn't prostrating, and crossing, and raising his hands as an orans inprayer, etc. He was simply a Christian, walking.That being said, crossing oneself in prayer at any times should never bedissuaded. I often do so walking down the hallway of my office, on thestreet, etc., but as a means to bless myself with the cross and not totestify to others - and many take such actions to be a conscious attempt tomake unbelievers uncomfortable or as a 'witness'.ChristopherOn 11/9/07, James <jimi@...> wrote:>> I was reminded in an offline note that I probably should not worry> so much about what others think and go ahead and cross myself. It> seems my Priest said essentially the same thing in a sermon awhile> back. May the Lord strengthen my resolve and help me remember to do> this.>> Yeah, I probably still have some of that old Lutheran "don't draw> attention to oneself" mentality going, huh?>> James/JiMi>> p.s. - Thanks to Peter for reminding me I'm not in Lake Woebegone>> --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,> "James" <jimi@...>> wrote:> >> > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,> "JWF" <frfenton@>> > wrote:> > >> > > In the Western Rite, we commonly say this prayer before meals:> > >> > >> > >> > > Bless us, O Lord, and these thy gifts which we are about to> receive> > from thy> > > bounty, through Christ our Lord.> > >> >> >> > I've used this prayer for several years now, since I spotted it in> the> > little red prayer book that the Antiochian Archdiocese puts out.> It> > was already familiar.> >> > First I say the Lord's Prayer, crossing myself (unless the> situation> > seems that it would appear a spectacle or showy), and then "Bless> us,> > O Lord.." making the sign of the cross over the food.> >>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                  • Lisa
                    with respect to blessing food/crossing oneself in public (and being deeply in the Lutheran-don t-draw-attention-to-yourself mind) what do you non-clergy do
                    Message 9 of 29 , Nov 9, 2007
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                      with respect to blessing food/crossing oneself in public (and being
                      deeply in the Lutheran-don't-draw-attention-to-yourself mind)

                      what do you non-clergy do when in a situation like going out to lunch
                      or dinner with co-workers? Pray silently, cross yourself ...? (and I am
                      making a distinction between coworkers and other friends you might
                      share meals with)

                      Lisa
                    • Brian Fink
                      Dear Dave, Im a sleep deprived father of three... I cant do anything seriously anymore. Brian ... From: daved.driscoll To:
                      Message 10 of 29 , Nov 10, 2007
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                        Dear Dave,
                        Im a sleep deprived father of three... I cant do anything seriously anymore.

                        Brian


                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: daved.driscoll <NorthlandWords@...>
                        To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2007 1:01:18 PM
                        Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions

                        Yes. I'm not sure of the intended tone--but, seriously--my "wayward"
                        younger 16-year-old little brother was very much brought "back to the
                        fold" by such informalities. It has its place.
                        --- In LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com, Brian Fink <brfinkster@ ...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > What about "Ruba dub dub, thanks for the grub"?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message ----
                        > From: Anastasia Theodoridis anastasiatheo01@ ...
                        > To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                        > Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2007 4:11:01 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEa st] Two Questions
                        >
                        > We pray, "Christ our God, bless the food and the drink of thy
                        servants, for You alone are holy, unto ages of ages." Then, before the
                        "Amen," we usually pray some extemporaneous things, always including,
                        "Thank You for Your love," and then giving thanks for specific blessings
                        of that day. "Thank you for Kostas' successful surgery," for example.
                        >
                        > Anastasia
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Anastasia Theodoridis
                        Dave, I ve known Brian (via the Internet) enough years not to need worry about what he means. ... Anastasia [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        Message 11 of 29 , Nov 10, 2007
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                          Dave, I've known Brian (via the Internet) enough years not to need worry about what he means.

                          :-)

                          Anastasia



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Northland Words
                          Hello Anastasia- Thanks for the note and the concern. I wasn t worried, but concurring. Freedom and familiarity with Him, while insolent, is perhaps no more
                          Message 12 of 29 , Nov 11, 2007
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                            Hello Anastasia-

                            Thanks for the note and the concern. I wasn't worried, but concurring.
                            Freedom and familiarity with Him, while insolent, is perhaps no more
                            insolent than all our other human attempts to honor Him, even when
                            undertaken with what we feel as earnest solemnity. It is only by His Grace
                            that He accepts our solemn prayers rather than laughing at them. (But I
                            probably chose an unfortunate e-mail to chime in.)



                            Thanks for all your posts-I read them eagerly.

                            Daved



                            _____

                            From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anastasia
                            Theodoridis
                            Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 7:47 AM
                            To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions



                            Dave, I've known Brian (via the Internet) enough years not to need worry
                            about what he means.

                            :-)

                            Anastasia

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Northland Words
                            Thanks, Brian- My seven children regularly trundle me off to bed, these days, so I lack that clarity of humor that sleep deprivation so graciously provides.
                            Message 13 of 29 , Nov 11, 2007
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                              Thanks, Brian-

                              My seven children regularly trundle me off to bed, these days, so I lack
                              that clarity of humor that sleep deprivation so graciously provides. Enjoy
                              it. I was glad to see your rubba dub dub (which I understand to be an Early
                              Slovakian phrase meaning rubba dub dub).



                              I can still see my father trying to pat his head, rub his stomach, and fold
                              his hands-all the while addressing this jocular thanksgiving to His Gracious
                              Creator. At the same time, my "this-church-junk-is-a-bunch-of-stuff"
                              brother laughing and joining my father in thanksgiving. My note was
                              probably out of place in this solemn forum. Nonetheless: Yeah God!

                              Thanks,

                              Daved



                              _____

                              From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                              [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fink
                              Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:14 AM
                              To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions



                              Dear Dave,
                              Im a sleep deprived father of three... I cant do anything seriously anymore.

                              Brian

                              ----- Original Message ----
                              From: daved.driscoll <NorthlandWords@ <mailto:NorthlandWords%40acegroup.cc>
                              acegroup.cc>
                              To: LutheransLookingEas <mailto:LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
                              t@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2007 1:01:18 PM
                              Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions

                              Yes. I'm not sure of the intended tone--but, seriously--my "wayward"
                              younger 16-year-old little brother was very much brought "back to the
                              fold" by such informalities. It has its place.
                              --- In LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com, Brian Fink <brfinkster@ ...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > What about "Ruba dub dub, thanks for the grub"?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message ----
                              > From: Anastasia Theodoridis anastasiatheo01@ ...
                              > To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                              > Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2007 4:11:01 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEa st] Two Questions
                              >
                              > We pray, "Christ our God, bless the food and the drink of thy
                              servants, for You alone are holy, unto ages of ages." Then, before the
                              "Amen," we usually pray some extemporaneous things, always including,
                              "Thank You for Your love," and then giving thanks for specific blessings
                              of that day. "Thank you for Kostas' successful surgery," for example.
                              >
                              > Anastasia
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Northland Words
                              er . . . I obviously meant his [my dad s] Gracious Creator, not His Gracious Creator. I trust that God, in His beneficence, will forgive yet another
                              Message 14 of 29 , Nov 11, 2007
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                                er . . . I obviously meant "his [my dad's] Gracious Creator," not "His
                                Gracious Creator." I trust that God, in His beneficence, will forgive yet
                                another insult from me. Yikes.

                                _____

                                From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Northland Words
                                Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:06 PM
                                To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions



                                Thanks, Brian-

                                My seven children regularly trundle me off to bed, these days, so I lack
                                that clarity of humor that sleep deprivation so graciously provides. Enjoy
                                it. I was glad to see your rubba dub dub (which I understand to be an Early
                                Slovakian phrase meaning rubba dub dub).

                                I can still see my father trying to pat his head, rub his stomach, and fold
                                his hands-all the while addressing this jocular thanksgiving to His Gracious
                                Creator. At the same time, my "this-church-junk-is-a-bunch-of-stuff"
                                brother laughing and joining my father in thanksgiving. My note was
                                probably out of place in this solemn forum. Nonetheless: Yeah God!

                                Thanks,

                                Daved

                                _____

                                From: LutheransLookingEas <mailto:LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
                                t@yahoogroups.com
                                [mailto:LutheransLookingEas <mailto:LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
                                t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fink
                                Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:14 AM
                                To: LutheransLookingEas <mailto:LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
                                t@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions

                                Dear Dave,
                                Im a sleep deprived father of three... I cant do anything seriously anymore.

                                Brian

                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: daved.driscoll <NorthlandWords@ <mailto:NorthlandWords%40acegroup.cc>
                                acegroup.cc>
                                To: LutheransLookingEas <mailto:LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
                                t@yahoogroups. <mailto:t%40yahoogroups.com> com
                                Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2007 1:01:18 PM
                                Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions

                                Yes. I'm not sure of the intended tone--but, seriously--my "wayward"
                                younger 16-year-old little brother was very much brought "back to the
                                fold" by such informalities. It has its place.
                                --- In LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com, Brian Fink <brfinkster@ ...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > What about "Ruba dub dub, thanks for the grub"?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message ----
                                > From: Anastasia Theodoridis anastasiatheo01@ ...
                                > To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                                > Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2007 4:11:01 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEa st] Two Questions
                                >
                                > We pray, "Christ our God, bless the food and the drink of thy
                                servants, for You alone are holy, unto ages of ages." Then, before the
                                "Amen," we usually pray some extemporaneous things, always including,
                                "Thank You for Your love," and then giving thanks for specific blessings
                                of that day. "Thank you for Kostas' successful surgery," for example.
                                >
                                > Anastasia
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Anastasia Theodoridis
                                Hi, Dave,, Brian wasn t poking fun at God, either, but at us, the Orthodox. He doesn t feel that free and familiar with God. BTW, he s a seminarian at Holy
                                Message 15 of 29 , Nov 11, 2007
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                                  Hi, Dave,,

                                  Brian wasn't poking fun at God, either, but at us, the Orthodox. He doesn't feel that free and familiar with God. BTW, he's a seminarian at Holy Cross in Brookline. Well, his studies there have been interrupted by family matters, so he's not DOING seminary at the moment, but as he certainly intends to continue, I suppose we could still call him a seminarian.

                                  I also look forward to your notes. It must be so weird to be an Orthodox among those Lutherans!

                                  Seven children! You are amazing.

                                  love,
                                  Anastasia
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Northland Words
                                  To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:54 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions


                                  Hello Anastasia-

                                  Thanks for the note and the concern. I wasn't worried, but concurring.
                                  Freedom and familiarity with Him, while insolent, is perhaps no more
                                  insolent than all our other human attempts to honor Him, even when
                                  undertaken with what we feel as earnest solemnity. It is only by His Grace
                                  that He accepts our solemn prayers rather than laughing at them. (But I
                                  probably chose an unfortunate e-mail to chime in.)

                                  Thanks for all your posts-I read them eagerly.

                                  Daved

                                  _____

                                  From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                  [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anastasia
                                  Theodoridis
                                  Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 7:47 AM
                                  To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions

                                  Dave, I've known Brian (via the Internet) enough years not to need worry
                                  about what he means.

                                  :-)

                                  Anastasia

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Brian Fink
                                  Dear Dave, I m serious about my faith and the Orthodox church. But we do have fun at times too. Read www.theoniondome.com sometime. Its not as good as it
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Nov 13, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Dear Dave,

                                    I'm serious about my faith and the Orthodox church. But we do have fun at times too. Read www.theoniondome.com sometime. Its not as good as it used to be, but still pretty funny.

                                    Once, I was carrying the crucifix for the Great Procession. When I came in from the right deacons door, there was no room for me to stop and put the crucifix back in its holder. So I had to keep going to let everyone behind me by, carrying this 8 ft tall crucifix. The assistant ecclesiarch looked at me oddly and told me, "I know Jesus told us to pick up and carry our cross but you CAN put that one down back there." My spiritual father and quite a few members of the faculty at HCHC are quite humorous about theology. Maybe its just me, but the Greeks are FAR funnier than the Russians :-P

                                    One joke about the Orthodox seminaries is that at St. Tikhon's, you learn to swing a censer properly. At St. Vlad's, a seminarian learns the theology about swinging a censor. At Holy Cross, we learn how to raise money through a Greek festival and get the best deal on a censor.

                                    Overall things are going well. I'm working two part time jobs and on Mondays and Tuesdays, I'm up from 6am to 1am which makes for a LONG day. I'm hoping that the first part-time job, manageing a help desk for a 4 person network management company will go full-time and I acan quit the 4-midnight job. I miss classes dearly. I've been counting down the months until I go back to school, 2 down and 10 to go.

                                    Brian


                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                    From: Anastasia Theodoridis <anastasiatheo01@...>
                                    To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 1:25:54 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions

                                    Hi, Dave,,

                                    Brian wasn't poking fun at God, either, but at us, the Orthodox. He doesn't feel that free and familiar with God. BTW, he's a seminarian at Holy Cross in Brookline. Well, his studies there have been interrupted by family matters, so he's not DOING seminary at the moment, but as he certainly intends to continue, I suppose we could still call him a seminarian.

                                    I also look forward to your notes. It must be so weird to be an Orthodox among those Lutherans!

                                    Seven children! You are amazing.

                                    love,
                                    Anastasia
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Northland Words
                                    To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                                    Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:54 PM
                                    Subject: RE: [LutheransLookingEa st] Re: Two Questions

                                    Hello Anastasia-

                                    Thanks for the note and the concern. I wasn't worried, but concurring.
                                    Freedom and familiarity with Him, while insolent, is perhaps no more
                                    insolent than all our other human attempts to honor Him, even when
                                    undertaken with what we feel as earnest solemnity. It is only by His Grace
                                    that He accepts our solemn prayers rather than laughing at them. (But I
                                    probably chose an unfortunate e-mail to chime in.)

                                    Thanks for all your posts-I read them eagerly.

                                    Daved

                                    _____

                                    From: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                                    [mailto:LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Anastasia
                                    Theodoridis
                                    Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 7:47 AM
                                    To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                                    Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEa st] Re: Two Questions

                                    Dave, I've known Brian (via the Internet) enough years not to need worry
                                    about what he means.

                                    :-)

                                    Anastasia

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • James
                                    Dear Brian, My friend Antone Meyer is currently a student there. He had intended to start when you did, but ended up needing to delay a year. Perhaps you
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Nov 13, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Dear Brian,

                                      My friend Antone Meyer is currently a student there. He had intended
                                      to start when you did, but ended up needing to delay a year. Perhaps
                                      you will graduate in the same class. Antone is one of four persons
                                      from my parish that graduated from Evangel University. Antone even
                                      lived on the same exact hall of the same dorm I did, only a few years
                                      later.

                                      May the joy of the Lord be your strength!

                                      James in Des Moines

                                      --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, Brian Fink
                                      <brfinkster@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Dear Dave,
                                      >
                                      > I'm serious about my faith and the Orthodox church. But we do have
                                      fun at times too. Read www.theoniondome.com sometime. Its not as
                                      good as it used to be, but still pretty funny.
                                      >
                                      > Once, I was carrying the crucifix for the Great Procession. When I
                                      came in from the right deacons door, there was no room for me to stop
                                      and put the crucifix back in its holder. So I had to keep going to
                                      let everyone behind me by, carrying this 8 ft tall crucifix. The
                                      assistant ecclesiarch looked at me oddly and told me, "I know Jesus
                                      told us to pick up and carry our cross but you CAN put that one down
                                      back there." My spiritual father and quite a few members of the
                                      faculty at HCHC are quite humorous about theology. Maybe its just
                                      me, but the Greeks are FAR funnier than the Russians :-P
                                      >
                                      > One joke about the Orthodox seminaries is that at St. Tikhon's, you
                                      learn to swing a censer properly. At St. Vlad's, a seminarian learns
                                      the theology about swinging a censor. At Holy Cross, we learn how to
                                      raise money through a Greek festival and get the best deal on a
                                      censor.
                                      >
                                      > Overall things are going well. I'm working two part time jobs and
                                      on Mondays and Tuesdays, I'm up from 6am to 1am which makes for a
                                      LONG day. I'm hoping that the first part-time job, manageing a help
                                      desk for a 4 person network management company will go full-time and
                                      I acan quit the 4-midnight job. I miss classes dearly. I've been
                                      counting down the months until I go back to school, 2 down and 10 to
                                      go.
                                      >
                                      > Brian
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Northland Words
                                      Hi Brian- The psychology of humor is pretty revealing about human motivation and intention-about our fears and weaknesses. I ve never seen it discussed, much,
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Nov 14, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Hi Brian-

                                        The psychology of humor is pretty revealing about human motivation and
                                        intention-about our fears and weaknesses. I've never seen it discussed,
                                        much, in theological terms, however. It would be, I think, a rich mine. We
                                        are often amused by the attempts of children to be earnest and solemn. But
                                        in one sense, we are all little children. The link you sent, theoniondome,
                                        seems to concur: "God laughs at the foolishness of men (Psalm 2:4); I think
                                        it is healthy for us to laugh at ourselves."



                                        In another sense, of course, we are His Bride or we are a royal priesthood
                                        or co-heirs with Christ. And to the extent that those bolder metaphors
                                        apply, laughing at our foibles or treating Him with jocular familiarity may
                                        be less appropriate. The awareness of our own weakness, however, can hardly
                                        be emphasized too strongly.



                                        The job world does sound tough. Ten months to go? I hope you can hang on.



                                        Daved





                                        _____

                                        From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                        [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fink
                                        Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 9:26 AM
                                        To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions



                                        Dear Dave,

                                        I'm serious about my faith and the Orthodox church. But we do have fun at
                                        times too. Read www.theoniondome.com sometime. Its not as good as it used to
                                        be, but still pretty funny.

                                        Once, I was carrying the crucifix for the Great Procession. When I came in
                                        from the right deacons door, there was no room for me to stop and put the
                                        crucifix back in its holder. So I had to keep going to let everyone behind
                                        me by, carrying this 8 ft tall crucifix. The assistant ecclesiarch looked at
                                        me oddly and told me, "I know Jesus told us to pick up and carry our cross
                                        but you CAN put that one down back there." My spiritual father and quite a
                                        few members of the faculty at HCHC are quite humorous about theology. Maybe
                                        its just me, but the Greeks are FAR funnier than the Russians :-P

                                        One joke about the Orthodox seminaries is that at St. Tikhon's, you learn to
                                        swing a censer properly. At St. Vlad's, a seminarian learns the theology
                                        about swinging a censor. At Holy Cross, we learn how to raise money through
                                        a Greek festival and get the best deal on a censor.

                                        Overall things are going well. I'm working two part time jobs and on Mondays
                                        and Tuesdays, I'm up from 6am to 1am which makes for a LONG day. I'm hoping
                                        that the first part-time job, manageing a help desk for a 4 person network
                                        management company will go full-time and I acan quit the 4-midnight job. I
                                        miss classes dearly. I've been counting down the months until I go back to
                                        school, 2 down and 10 to go.

                                        Brian

                                        ----- Original Message ----
                                        From: Anastasia Theodoridis <anastasiatheo01@
                                        <mailto:anastasiatheo01%40verizon.net> verizon.net>
                                        To: LutheransLookingEas <mailto:LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        t@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 1:25:54 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Two Questions

                                        Hi, Dave,,

                                        Brian wasn't poking fun at God, either, but at us, the Orthodox. He doesn't
                                        feel that free and familiar with God. BTW, he's a seminarian at Holy Cross
                                        in Brookline. Well, his studies there have been interrupted by family
                                        matters, so he's not DOING seminary at the moment, but as he certainly
                                        intends to continue, I suppose we could still call him a seminarian.

                                        I also look forward to your notes. It must be so weird to be an Orthodox
                                        among those Lutherans!

                                        Seven children! You are amazing.

                                        love,
                                        Anastasia
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Northland Words
                                        To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                                        Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:54 PM
                                        Subject: RE: [LutheransLookingEa st] Re: Two Questions

                                        Hello Anastasia-

                                        Thanks for the note and the concern. I wasn't worried, but concurring.
                                        Freedom and familiarity with Him, while insolent, is perhaps no more
                                        insolent than all our other human attempts to honor Him, even when
                                        undertaken with what we feel as earnest solemnity. It is only by His Grace
                                        that He accepts our solemn prayers rather than laughing at them. (But I
                                        probably chose an unfortunate e-mail to chime in.)

                                        Thanks for all your posts-I read them eagerly.

                                        Daved

                                        _____

                                        From: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                                        [mailto:LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Anastasia
                                        Theodoridis
                                        Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 7:47 AM
                                        To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
                                        Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEa st] Re: Two Questions

                                        Dave, I've known Brian (via the Internet) enough years not to need worry
                                        about what he means.

                                        :-)

                                        Anastasia

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • tharman32
                                        I have a couple of questions I was hoping the group could offer some insight on. Does the Orthodox church beleive in the total depravity of humans after the
                                        Message 19 of 29 , May 11, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I have a couple of questions I was hoping the group could offer some
                                          insight on.

                                          Does the Orthodox church beleive in the total depravity of humans after
                                          the Fall? When I read the saints I see they are well aware of thier
                                          sinfulness and their need for God's grace, but are we "that bad"?
                                          (Sorry to phrase it in such a trivial manner, but I can't find the
                                          right words...)

                                          Also does the Orthodox church believe in the "angry God" theory? (ie
                                          the "sinners in the hands of an angry God theology"). From my limited
                                          knowledge I beleive the answer is a loud no. But I am not sure.

                                          Thank you for any insight or recommended readings you suggest!
                                          Todd
                                        • Fr John Fenton
                                          Hi Todd, Christ ist auferstanden! (for the German speaking) You asked two straight-forward questions, so permit me to give straight-forward answers. 1. The
                                          Message 20 of 29 , May 12, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi Todd,

                                            Christ ist auferstanden! (for the German speaking)

                                            You asked two straight-forward questions, so permit me to give straight-forward answers.

                                            1. The doctrine of the "total depravity of man" is a distinctly Calvinist or Arminian (NOT Armenian) teaching, which is often ascribed or held by Lutherans and is understandably but incorrectly ascribed to St Augustine, is roundly rejected by the Orthodox Church. Among other things, it is built upon the notions of original guilt which is also rejected by the Church.

                                            2. While the Scriptures speak of God's anger, the "angry God theory" is rejected by the Church. Among other things, it suggests a dual personality in God and ascribes to Him a sinful human characteristic.

                                            Certainly, the answers to these questions are more much nuanced and therefore will most likely raise other questions. For reading, let me suggest "The Orthodox Way" by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware and "Byzantine Theology" by Fr John Meyendorff.




                                            Fr John W Fenton, Priest
                                            Holy Incarnation Orthodox Church
                                            A Western Rite Parish in the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America

                                            frfenton@...
                                            www.holyincarnation.org






                                            ----- Original Message ----
                                            From: tharman32 <tharman32@...>
                                            To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 4:34:56 PM
                                            Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Two Questions

                                            I have a couple of questions I was hoping the group could offer some
                                            insight on.

                                            Does the Orthodox church beleive in the total depravity of humans after
                                            the Fall? When I read the saints I see they are well aware of thier
                                            sinfulness and their need for God's grace, but are we "that bad"?
                                            (Sorry to phrase it in such a trivial manner, but I can't find the
                                            right words...)

                                            Also does the Orthodox church believe in the "angry God" theory? (ie
                                            the "sinners in the hands of an angry God theology"). From my limited
                                            knowledge I beleive the answer is a loud no. But I am not sure.

                                            Thank you for any insight or recommended readings you suggest!
                                            Todd




                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • BPeter Brandt-Sorheim
                                            Todd, For me the Orthodox perspective is positive. It does not matter how badly a human person is damaged by error / sin, as the person remains at core God s
                                            Message 21 of 29 , May 12, 2008
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Todd,

                                              For me the Orthodox perspective is positive.

                                              It does not matter how badly a human person is damaged by error / sin,
                                              as the person remains at core God's good creation and is therefore
                                              capable of restoration.

                                              Any other view leads to hatred towards God.

                                              God is angry with sin but loves the sinner.
                                              In Jesus Christ love overcomes anger.
                                              We live in this new contract / testamentum with God.

                                              Peter




                                              tharman32 <tharman32@...> wrote:
                                              I have a couple of questions I was hoping the group could offer some
                                              insight on.

                                              Does the Orthodox church beleive in the total depravity of humans after
                                              the Fall? When I read the saints I see they are well aware of thier
                                              sinfulness and their need for God's grace, but are we "that bad"?
                                              (Sorry to phrase it in such a trivial manner, but I can't find the
                                              right words...)

                                              Also does the Orthodox church believe in the "angry God" theory? (ie
                                              the "sinners in the hands of an angry God theology"). From my limited
                                              knowledge I beleive the answer is a loud no. But I am not sure.

                                              Thank you for any insight or recommended readings you suggest!
                                              Todd






                                              ---------------------------------
                                              Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Dave @¿@¬
                                              Howdy Todd! Er ist wahrhaftig auferstanden! The total depravity of man would seem to contradict the Orthodox concepts of sin and theosis. How is man to become
                                              Message 22 of 29 , May 19, 2008
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Howdy Todd!

                                                Er ist wahrhaftig auferstanden!

                                                The total depravity of man would seem to contradict
                                                the Orthodox concepts of sin and theosis.

                                                How is man to "become a god" (lower case "g") unless
                                                there is still some element within man that would allow
                                                God to work this change within him?

                                                Dave


                                                --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, Fr John Fenton
                                                <frfenton@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Hi Todd,
                                                >
                                                > Christ ist auferstanden! (for the German speaking)
                                                >
                                                > You asked two straight-forward questions, so permit me to give
                                                straight-forward answers.
                                                >
                                                > 1. The doctrine of the "total depravity of man" is a distinctly
                                                Calvinist or Arminian (NOT Armenian) teaching, which is often
                                                ascribed or held by Lutherans and is understandably but incorrectly
                                                ascribed to St Augustine, is roundly rejected by the Orthodox
                                                Church. Among other things, it is built upon the notions of original
                                                guilt which is also rejected by the Church.
                                                >
                                                > 2. While the Scriptures speak of God's anger, the "angry God
                                                theory" is rejected by the Church. Among other things, it suggests a
                                                dual personality in God and ascribes to Him a sinful human
                                                characteristic.
                                                >
                                                > Certainly, the answers to these questions are more much nuanced
                                                and therefore will most likely raise other questions. For reading,
                                                let me suggest "The Orthodox Way" by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware
                                                and "Byzantine Theology" by Fr John Meyendorff.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Fr John W Fenton, Priest
                                                > Holy Incarnation Orthodox Church
                                                > A Western Rite Parish in the Antiochian Orthodox Christian
                                                Archdiocese of North America
                                                >
                                                > frfenton@...
                                                > www.holyincarnation.org
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ----- Original Message ----
                                                > From: tharman32 <tharman32@...>
                                                > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 4:34:56 PM
                                                > Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Two Questions
                                                >
                                                > I have a couple of questions I was hoping the group could offer
                                                some
                                                > insight on.
                                                >
                                                > Does the Orthodox church beleive in the total depravity of humans
                                                after
                                                > the Fall? When I read the saints I see they are well aware of
                                                thier
                                                > sinfulness and their need for God's grace, but are we "that bad"?
                                                > (Sorry to phrase it in such a trivial manner, but I can't find the
                                                > right words...)
                                                >
                                                > Also does the Orthodox church believe in the "angry God" theory?
                                                (ie
                                                > the "sinners in the hands of an angry God theology"). From my
                                                limited
                                                > knowledge I beleive the answer is a loud no. But I am not sure.
                                                >
                                                > Thank you for any insight or recommended readings you suggest!
                                                > Todd
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
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