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"Fenton" a swear word at Concordia WI

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  • Dan L.
    Being the Vice President of CUW s Student Government Association, I decided to sponsor a resolution to create a program for private confession and absolution
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 16, 2007
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      Being the Vice President of CUW's Student Government Association, I
      decided to sponsor a resolution to create a "program" for private
      confession and absolution on-campus for members of the LC-MS. As I was
      talking to members of the theology faculty, of which I'm on very good
      terms with, the question I kept getting asked, "Why would an Orthodox
      want to revive Private Confession for Lutherans?" Quite frankly, I
      wasn't sure, but I never said that. The answer I usually gave was,
      "This is something that Lutherans have cared for since the beginning
      and it's making a revival, as seen in the 2007 Synodical Convention."

      Now, I'm sure what this has to do with Fr. John Fenton; all I know is
      that I mentioned his name, twice I believe, and I received the worst
      looks. And in the words of the Theology Department Chairman, "Don't
      go there (in reference to Fr. John Fenton)."

      Last Saturday, I went with one of my friends, who's looking to
      Orthodoxy, to the St. John Chrysostom Monastery in Kenosha. We got to
      talking about the Western Rite, and I mentioned, "I believe Fr. John
      Fenton's parish is the closest." And his response was simply,
      "Fenton," with disdain.

      So, a year later, and Fr. John Fenton is still view as controversial
      in the LCMS. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something.

      In Christ,

      Dan
    • Randy Asburry
      Dan, Just take a copy of the Book of Concord (whichever version, you choose), and open up to Augsburg Confession, Article XI, and say, “Nope, Confession and
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 16, 2007
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        Dan,



        Just take a copy of the Book of Concord (whichever version, you choose), and
        open up to Augsburg Confession, Article XI, and say, �Nope, Confession and
        Absolution has nothing to do with Fenton; it does have everything to do with
        being Lutheran as the Lutheran Confessions teach.� But therein lies the real
        problem, now doesn�t it?! :-) �and that�s the real source of the
        Fenton-phobia!



        Randy

        + + + + +
        Rev. Randy Asburry
        Hope Lutheran Church
        St. Louis, MO
        HYPERLINK "mailto:r.asburry@..."mailto:r.asburry@...
        Blog: HYPERLINK
        "http://rasburrysres.blogspot.com"http://rasburrysres.blogspot.com

        �...we on our part shall not omit doing anything, in so far as God and
        conscience allow, that may serve the cause of Christian unity." (Augsburg
        Confession, Preface, 13; Tappert, 26).



        _____

        From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan L.
        Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 4:53 PM
        To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] "Fenton" a swear word at Concordia WI



        Being the Vice President of CUW's Student Government Association, I
        decided to sponsor a resolution to create a "program" for private
        confession and absolution on-campus for members of the LC-MS. As I was
        talking to members of the theology faculty, of which I'm on very good
        terms with, the question I kept getting asked, "Why would an Orthodox
        want to revive Private Confession for Lutherans?" Quite frankly, I
        wasn't sure, but I never said that. The answer I usually gave was,
        "This is something that Lutherans have cared for since the beginning
        and it's making a revival, as seen in the 2007 Synodical Convention."

        Now, I'm sure what this has to do with Fr. John Fenton; all I know is
        that I mentioned his name, twice I believe, and I received the worst
        looks. And in the words of the Theology Department Chairman, "Don't
        go there (in reference to Fr. John Fenton)."

        Last Saturday, I went with one of my friends, who's looking to
        Orthodoxy, to the St. John Chrysostom Monastery in Kenosha. We got to
        talking about the Western Rite, and I mentioned, "I believe Fr. John
        Fenton's parish is the closest." And his response was simply,
        "Fenton," with disdain.

        So, a year later, and Fr. John Fenton is still view as controversial
        in the LCMS. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something.

        In Christ,

        Dan




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      • Christopher Orr
        It s all very human and understandable. My freshman year girlfriend from college contacted me via Facebook today. I haven t seen her for 10 years and haven t
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 16, 2007
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          It's all very human and understandable.

          My freshman year girlfriend from college contacted me via Facebook today. I
          haven't seen her for 10 years and haven't dated her for longer - and we only
          dated about 6 months. But she broke my heart and I was miserable. When I
          saw her name pop on, my stomach sank and my chest tightened. My body
          reacted involuntarily and took me back to how I felt 15 years ago.

          Broken hearts hurt, whether of the dating or religious variety, and
          conversions to or from any faith always break someone's heart. The choice
          brings into stark contrast a number of things: what we really believe rather
          than what we would like to think we believe, who/what we love more than God,
          who/what we love more than family and friends and career and respectability,
          who our friends are, what our priorities are, etc. Sometimes the heart that
          is broken is our own as we either convert, or decide not to convert.

          Christopher


          On 10/16/07, Randy Asburry <r.asburry@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dan,
          >
          >
          >
          > Just take a copy of the Book of Concord (whichever version, you choose),
          > and
          > open up to Augsburg Confession, Article XI, and say, "Nope, Confession and
          > Absolution has nothing to do with Fenton; it does have everything to do
          > with
          > being Lutheran as the Lutheran Confessions teach." But therein lies the
          > real
          > problem, now doesn't it?! :-) �and that's the real source of the
          > Fenton-phobia!
          >
          >
          >
          > Randy
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Edward Wolfe
          Over the last few years, more than a few (formerly) Lutheran pastors have become Orthodox, and a number have been granted priesthood. We ve asked serious
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 16, 2007
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            Over the last few years, more than a few (formerly) Lutheran pastors
            have become Orthodox, and a number have been granted priesthood. We've
            asked serious questions in our journey, not the least of which
            regarded the Church -- Where is the Church?

            When we left, each of us was accused of abandoning our congregations,
            of breaking ordination vows, -- and the list goes on and on. All of us
            have attempted to explain, to help people understand, an so on. There
            have been listening ears, but there has also been an outcry and public
            "attack" -- often caricaturing Orthodoxy.

            Frankly, it seems to me that if one can no longer confess that which
            is Lutheran, the only proper thing to do is to leave!:)

            So, the reaction that you are getting isn't really surprising,
            although it is disappointing.

            Pastor Asburry offers one suggestion -- More often than not, I think
            such visceral reactions come when people are confronted with hard
            questions -- hard questions that they don't want to face.

            Confession is part of the Lutheran confession, to be sure, but it is
            NOT widely practiced. In fact, some years ago, when I was still a
            Lutheran pastor, a colleague said at a pastoral conference that
            Confession was an "anachronism."

            The pastors who have become Orthodox were confessional men who took
            these things seriously.

            Perhaps this little bit of background helps.


            Ezekiel





            --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "Dan L." <teengreek@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Being the Vice President of CUW's Student Government Association, I
            > decided to sponsor a resolution to create a "program" for private
            > confession and absolution on-campus for members of the LC-MS. As I was
            > talking to members of the theology faculty, of which I'm on very good
            > terms with, the question I kept getting asked, "Why would an Orthodox
            > want to revive Private Confession for Lutherans?" Quite frankly, I
            > wasn't sure, but I never said that. The answer I usually gave was,
            > "This is something that Lutherans have cared for since the beginning
            > and it's making a revival, as seen in the 2007 Synodical Convention."
            >
            > Now, I'm sure what this has to do with Fr. John Fenton; all I know is
            > that I mentioned his name, twice I believe, and I received the worst
            > looks. And in the words of the Theology Department Chairman, "Don't
            > go there (in reference to Fr. John Fenton)."
            >
            > Last Saturday, I went with one of my friends, who's looking to
            > Orthodoxy, to the St. John Chrysostom Monastery in Kenosha. We got to
            > talking about the Western Rite, and I mentioned, "I believe Fr. John
            > Fenton's parish is the closest." And his response was simply,
            > "Fenton," with disdain.
            >
            > So, a year later, and Fr. John Fenton is still view as controversial
            > in the LCMS. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something.
            >
            > In Christ,
            >
            > Dan
            >
          • BPeter Brandt-Sorheim
            Dear in Christ Ezekiel and readers, Not widely practiced is perhaps an understatement regarding confession. Luther spoke strong words about the matter
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 17, 2007
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              Dear in Christ Ezekiel and readers,
              Not widely practiced is perhaps an understatement regarding confession. Luther spoke strong words about the matter suggesting that those who did not gladly come to confession for the sake of absolution should be sent back to the pope to be coerced as they had not yet appreciated the gospel. General confession and general absolution are good but not quite the same. Not that this is any surprise to those familiar with the Lutheran Symbols!
              Yes, the accusations of abandoning the congregations are familiar. I am inclined to see on the other hand an abandonment of the true spirit of the Lutheran / Evangelische reformation: to keep to the approved and sound traditions which support the Gospel and not to depart from the solid catholic wholeness. When I must chose between the instructions of such as John Chrysostom [the Golden Tongue] and reinterpretations of later folks, well, my change from Lutheran pastor to Orthodox is no surprise.
              Dear friends have stayed within the Lutheran community, doing as best they can to maintain and build up. But will not others tear down? I miss Pastor Evans who preceded Pastor Fenton at Zion but see Fr Fenton as completing the genuine path of the reformation. I am sorry to live so far away from him but my prayers are with him and so many others who have followed the Gospel. BPeter Brandt-Sørheim

              Edward Wolfe <ewolfe@...> wrote:
              Confession is part of the Lutheran confession, to be sure, but it is
              NOT widely practiced. In fact, some years ago, when I was still a
              Lutheran pastor, a colleague said at a pastoral conference that
              Confession was an "anachronism. "

              __________________________________________________
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • JWF
              Dan, Several have mentioned very good reasons for the reaction, and all are part of the answer. Here are two other factors: * He-who-ought-not-be-named :-)
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 17, 2007
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                Dan,



                Several have mentioned very good reasons for the reaction, and all are part
                of the answer. Here are two other factors:



                * "He-who-ought-not-be-named" :-) served a parish for 5 years in the
                South Wisconsin District, serving also on district committees and becoming
                known to (theology) faculty at CUW
                * "He-who-ought-not-be-named" :-) wrote a resolution that passed the
                SWD convention (1991, I believe) and, at its passing, was commended to the
                1992 LCMS convention. But perhaps this is not remembered.





                Fr John W Fenton

                Priest, Holy Incarnation Antiochian Orthodox Christian Church

                <mailto:frfenton@...> frfenton@...

                http://HolyIncarnation.org <http://holyincarnation.org/>

                <mailto:frfenton@...>

                _____

                From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan L.
                Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 5:53 PM
                To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] "Fenton" a swear word at Concordia WI



                Being the Vice President of CUW's Student Government Association, I
                decided to sponsor a resolution to create a "program" for private
                confession and absolution on-campus for members of the LC-MS. As I was
                talking to members of the theology faculty, of which I'm on very good
                terms with, the question I kept getting asked, "Why would an Orthodox
                want to revive Private Confession for Lutherans?" Quite frankly, I
                wasn't sure, but I never said that. The answer I usually gave was,
                "This is something that Lutherans have cared for since the beginning
                and it's making a revival, as seen in the 2007 Synodical Convention."

                Now, I'm sure what this has to do with Fr. John Fenton; all I know is
                that I mentioned his name, twice I believe, and I received the worst
                looks. And in the words of the Theology Department Chairman, "Don't
                go there (in reference to Fr. John Fenton)."

                Last Saturday, I went with one of my friends, who's looking to
                Orthodoxy, to the St. John Chrysostom Monastery in Kenosha. We got to
                talking about the Western Rite, and I mentioned, "I believe Fr. John
                Fenton's parish is the closest." And his response was simply,
                "Fenton," with disdain.

                So, a year later, and Fr. John Fenton is still view as controversial
                in the LCMS. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something.

                In Christ,

                Dan





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Randy Asburry
                On the matter of Lutherans and Confession and Absolution, check out my blog at HYPERLINK
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 18, 2007
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                  On the matter of Lutherans and Confession and Absolution, check out my blog
                  at HYPERLINK
                  "http://rasburrysres.blogspot.com/2007/10/homily-trinity-19.html"http://rasb
                  urrysres.blogspot.com/2007/10/homily-trinity-19.html . I posted this past
                  Sunday’s homily in which I tied Private Confession and Absolution to the
                  story of Jesus healing the Paralytic. In the homily I also urged folks to
                  partake of Confession and Absolution (much as Luther himself did in the
                  Large Catechism, I might say). But when you see the first comment after my
                  homily, you can see a typical “Confessional Lutheran” dismissal and
                  rationalizing away of Confession itself, even though it is clearly advocated
                  and taught in the Lutheran Symbols. I truly don’t know who “Anonymous” is,
                  but I have heard these points and this argumentation many times before from
                  Lutheran parishioners.



                  Randy

                  + + + + +
                  Rev. Randy Asburry
                  Hope Lutheran Church
                  St. Louis, MO
                  HYPERLINK "mailto:r.asburry@..."mailto:r.asburry@...
                  Blog: HYPERLINK
                  "http://rasburrysres.blogspot.com"http://rasburrysres.blogspot.com

                  “...we on our part shall not omit doing anything, in so far as God and
                  conscience allow, that may serve the cause of Christian unity." (Augsburg
                  Confession, Preface, 13; Tappert, 26).



                  _____

                  From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of BPeter
                  Brandt-Sorheim
                  Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 6:12 AM
                  To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: "Fenton" a swear word at Concordia
                  WI



                  Dear in Christ Ezekiel and readers,
                  Not widely practiced is perhaps an understatement regarding confession.
                  Luther spoke strong words about the matter suggesting that those who did not
                  gladly come to confession for the sake of absolution should be sent back to
                  the pope to be coerced as they had not yet appreciated the gospel. General
                  confession and general absolution are good but not quite the same. Not that
                  this is any surprise to those familiar with the Lutheran Symbols!
                  Yes, the accusations of abandoning the congregations are familiar. I am
                  inclined to see on the other hand an abandonment of the true spirit of the
                  Lutheran / Evangelische reformation: to keep to the approved and sound
                  traditions which support the Gospel and not to depart from the solid
                  catholic wholeness. When I must chose between the instructions of such as
                  John Chrysostom [the Golden Tongue] and reinterpretations of later folks,
                  well, my change from Lutheran pastor to Orthodox is no surprise.
                  Dear friends have stayed within the Lutheran community, doing as best they
                  can to maintain and build up. But will not others tear down? I miss Pastor
                  Evans who preceded Pastor Fenton at Zion but see Fr Fenton as completing the
                  genuine path of the reformation. I am sorry to live so far away from him but
                  my prayers are with him and so many others who have followed the Gospel.
                  BPeter Brandt-Sørheim

                  Edward Wolfe <HYPERLINK "mailto:ewolfe%40charter.net"ewolfe@charter.-net>
                  wrote:
                  Confession is part of the Lutheran confession, to be sure, but it is
                  NOT widely practiced. In fact, some years ago, when I was still a
                  Lutheran pastor, a colleague said at a pastoral conference that
                  Confession was an "anachronism. "

                  ____________-_________-_________-_________-_________-__
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                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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