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Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Faith of Our Fathers Lutheran Colloquium

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  • Wayne Whitmer
    Hi Mike, I ve listened to it before but need a refresher. As far as your wife not following you into Orthdoxy I can t say for certain yet that my wife under
    Message 1 of 38 , Sep 13, 2012
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      Hi Mike,

      I've listened to it before but need a refresher. As far as your wife not
      following you into Orthdoxy I can't say for certain yet that my wife under
      no circumstances will follow me but there is a strong chance she won't.
      Even the thought grieves me but we can continue to pray, discuss, and pray
      some more. Christ's Blessings to you and yours.


      Wayne Whitmer

      On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Mike Bennett <jhs1962@...> wrote:

      > **
      > Somebody mentioned the Subject podcasts at Ancient Faith Radio a couple of
      > days ago.
      > I've downloaded them and have now listened to the keynote address and a
      > presentation on Sola Scriptura by, I believe, Reader Christopher Orr.
      > Instead of beginning to listen to my brand new Economist issue on my drive
      > home today, I plan to listen to the Sola Scriptura presentation again. It
      > was packed with very good stuff very well focused for a Lutheran such as
      > I. He made a few points that were particularly strong ones to me, and I
      > want to re-listen and to see what equally good points I might have missed.
      > The ones that stand out from memory after one cursory listen are:
      > + The Church as the literal Body of Christ (works for this Lutheran, who
      > believes "is" means "is" in the words of institution and so I suppose it
      > means "is" when we're told the Church is the Body of Christ). This has
      > implications for who has had authority from the start to establish the
      > details of Church faith and practice, and on what authority/Whose authority
      > that comes.
      > + The observation that, in the Book of Concord, the reformers repeatedly
      > appeal to the authority of early Church fathers to support their Lutheran
      > views. Reader Christopher (if I'm recalling correctly) observes that if
      > these fathers can be relied on to interprest and illuminate such topics as
      > the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation, we can probably rely on them for
      > little things like Church practice.
      > Thanks for pointing out this resource. I've found Ancient Faith Radio to
      > be the best of its kind as an i-Phone app (its kind being specialized radio
      > or quasi-radio broadcasts and podcasts) for support of a religious
      > tradition.
      > I also appreciated the disclosure that the speaker's wife is not
      > Orthodox. This has been a sticking point for me. My convert-brother's
      > wife did not swim the Bosphorous with him, and if I swim it chances are
      > slim to none that my wife will. This grieves me. And I do understand the
      > part about having one Lord, and that if following Him creates strife in a
      > family then so be it. But it is still very hard to contemplate.
      > Mike Bennett
      > Lutheran for 20 years and inquirer into Orthodoxy for at least half that
      > long.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Benjamin Harju
      Christopher s advice is spot-on, as usual. In reading about your liturgical experience in Lutheranism, all I can say is that I had the same sort of experience.
      Message 38 of 38 , Sep 14, 2012
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        Christopher's advice is spot-on, as usual.

        In reading about your liturgical experience in Lutheranism, all I can say
        is that I had the same sort of experience. I think the search for meaning
        and authenticity in liturgical worship is what draws a lot of us to
        Orthodoxy. While anger and frustration and maybe even exhaustion from the
        squabbling, distrust, and lack of security in Lutheranism can drive us to
        expecting "perfection" in another place, the search for truly catholic and
        orthodox worship is not itself a running away, but a running towards the
        Truth we are thirsting after.

        But if new age worship is such a problem, and the catholic and orthodox
        worship of the Orthodox Church is such a wonderful thing, then (in order to
        avoid personal delusion) it's important to put Christopher's advice into
        practice. The worship in the public liturgy must be carried into the
        home. Introduce a simple but regular routine, and stay with it.

        In Orthodoxy the Liturgy IS the Faith. It's okay to run to that, if it is
        THAT which you are trying to get, but which Lutheranism is incapable of
        giving you. Just keep in mind that we human beings are not so simple:
        while running toward the right things we often bring unrealistic
        expectations at the same time. Take your time. Don't rush. Face each
        thing one at a time, the good and the bad. Christ is faithful; He will
        lead you into all truth. Chase down Christ. Prayer is how to do it.

        In Christ,
        Benjamin Harju

        On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote:

        > **
        > Here's the translation of the Prayer Book I use (well, an updated version,
        > but theses introductory or Trisagion prayers are the same), common in ROCOR
        > and some OCA:
        > http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/prayerbook/main.htm
        > This seems to be the Greek translation:
        > http://www.transchurch.org/prayers.html#daily
        > Antiochian:
        > http://www.antiochian.org/morning-prayers
        > http://www.antiochian.org/evening-prayers
        > Others are easy to find online. I would recommend using whatever
        > translation is used at the parish you visit or attend most often.
        > Christopher
        > On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote:
        > > I would caution that conversion simply *from* one faith to another is
        > > bound to be problematic. We can't convert out of anger. We can only
        > > convert *to*, and out of love for God is love and he is the
        > > destination.
        > >
        > > Obviously, there are always factors that cause us to begin looing or
        > > to be open to alternatives, and these are often infruriating, hurtful,
        > > etc., but the actual conversion must be because of the truth, merit,
        > > beauty of what is found: the pearl of great price.
        > >
        > > May the Lord and his saints care for you in your inquiry.
        > >
        > > If you aren't praying regularly, start. Morning and evening. Try
        > > saying just the introductory prayers from the prayer book: O Heavenly
        > > King, Holy God, Most Holy Trinity, Our Father (translations vary for
        > > these prayers). Or, the Jesus Prayer, but regularly. You can't think
        > > your way through this, regardless of where you land.
        > >
        > > Christopher
        > >
        > > On 9/14/12, mygourami <mygourami@...> wrote:
        > > >> So, I find myself in a Church that has a good paper confession but
        > > >> does not live it out. You will find Eastern Orthodoxy more of a Church
        > > >> without a confession, in that, it has a living tradition that
        > continues
        > > >> to this day. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. I pray that
        > > >> you find peace and Jesus Christ in whichever Communion you find is
        > > >> truest to the Scriptures.
        > > >>
        > > >> Many former Lutherans have "gone East," and, unlike some, I do not
        > > >> see them as forsaking their salvation. Maria, in short, where will you
        > > >> best find Jesus Christ and Him crucified? If you find Him better in
        > > >> Eastern Orthodoxy because Lutheranism has so strayed and bought into
        > > >> the nonsense of modern-day Protestantism, I wish you well. If you find
        > > >> Him better in a Lutheran Church that is truly Lutheran, I also wish
        > you
        > > >> well.
        > > >>
        > > >> Pr. RF
        > > >
        > > > We have actually spent over a year visiting other Lutheran-LCMS within
        > > our
        > > > area and one out of state while visiting relatives. They are all over
        > the
        > > > map, so to say. I actually cried at one when they projected on the
        > > screens
        > > > some mindless dribble 'song' where they had the kids repeat a single
        > > phrase
        > > > over and over and we left before the song ended. Our own church is
        > being
        > > > torn apart by what my husband and I call 'new age' Christians, dont
        > know
        > > > what the current term for them is. We did find one church where the
        > > pastor
        > > > still sung the liturgy, uses the red hymnal, and has traditional
        > Lutheran
        > > > Advent and Lenten seasons - why we became Lutheran in the first
        > > place...yet
        > > > he is in his late 30's and I do not know what they are teaching at
        > > Concordia
        > > > U but they are not studying Luther, more like venomous Calvin. I do not
        > > > believe the LCMS has much of a future, when all the red-hymnal folk are
        > > > gone. I fought against the school district for years until I gave up
        > and
        > > > homeschooled my kids, I gave up campaigning for the 'conservative'
        > party
        > > and
        > > > now rally behind 3rd party candidates, and I am abandoning the sinking
        > > ship
        > > > LCMS and taking the life raft offered by the EO.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > Sent from my mobile device
        > >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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