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Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Introduction

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  • Christopher Orr
    The list is at base a passive resource for those who want to ask questions about Orthodoxy, it isn t a list meant to actively attack Lutheran belief. People
    Message 1 of 38 , Sep 10, 2012
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      The list is at base a passive resource for those who want to ask questions
      about Orthodoxy, it isn't a list meant to actively attack Lutheran belief.
      People haven't been asking questions, so the list hasn't been active. We
      will all be happy to address any issues, questions, concerns, etc. you
      might have about Orthodoxy. I was raised WELS, my wife and most of my
      father's family are Roman Catholic, myself and my two boys are Orthodox.

      The best resource is always a local parish, priest and community. Theory
      is one thing, practice another. For instance, it's easy to assume the
      veneration of saints and icons is 'worship', but community worship puts
      both practices in context (i.e., everything in Orthodoxy surrounding icons
      and the saints is even more about God, the Trinity, Christ, etc. so by
      contrast icons and saints are clearly something other than divine.)


      On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 5:30 PM, matt reader <mattyreader@...> wrote:

      > **
      > I am former lcms, Eo for about 17 years. My parish alone has about 7 of
      > that background. This is certainly the place to ask questions, discuss
      > differences, etc. Fr John Peck, former Lutheran, has a really good site,
      > http://journeytoorthodoxy.com/ which has testimonials and other material
      > of interest.
      > Matt
      > ________________________________
      > From: mygourami <mygourami@...>
      > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 10:51 AM
      > Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Introduction
      > I see at one time this group may have been more active. But I am gleaning
      > information here. I am a soon to be ex-Lutheran, not by my choice, but the
      > fact that as my church of birth - Roman Catholicism - left me, the Lutheran
      > church's changes have also left me behind. In gut-wrenching study/seeking I
      > was oddly guided to EO by friends who have also left their churches of
      > birth (Episcopalian, Pentecostal, Methodist, etc) for the same reasons.
      > Are there Lutheran to EO converts here? Right now I feel that our family
      > will be perpetual inquirers, but I understand it will be a slow process,
      > familiar with some aspects, some I dont know about and others I have an
      > inkling.
      > Maria Briva
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Benjamin Harju
      Christopher s advice is spot-on, as usual. In reading about your liturgical experience in Lutheranism, all I can say is that I had the same sort of experience.
      Message 38 of 38 , Sep 14, 2012
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        Christopher's advice is spot-on, as usual.

        In reading about your liturgical experience in Lutheranism, all I can say
        is that I had the same sort of experience. I think the search for meaning
        and authenticity in liturgical worship is what draws a lot of us to
        Orthodoxy. While anger and frustration and maybe even exhaustion from the
        squabbling, distrust, and lack of security in Lutheranism can drive us to
        expecting "perfection" in another place, the search for truly catholic and
        orthodox worship is not itself a running away, but a running towards the
        Truth we are thirsting after.

        But if new age worship is such a problem, and the catholic and orthodox
        worship of the Orthodox Church is such a wonderful thing, then (in order to
        avoid personal delusion) it's important to put Christopher's advice into
        practice. The worship in the public liturgy must be carried into the
        home. Introduce a simple but regular routine, and stay with it.

        In Orthodoxy the Liturgy IS the Faith. It's okay to run to that, if it is
        THAT which you are trying to get, but which Lutheranism is incapable of
        giving you. Just keep in mind that we human beings are not so simple:
        while running toward the right things we often bring unrealistic
        expectations at the same time. Take your time. Don't rush. Face each
        thing one at a time, the good and the bad. Christ is faithful; He will
        lead you into all truth. Chase down Christ. Prayer is how to do it.

        In Christ,
        Benjamin Harju

        On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote:

        > **
        > Here's the translation of the Prayer Book I use (well, an updated version,
        > but theses introductory or Trisagion prayers are the same), common in ROCOR
        > and some OCA:
        > http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/prayerbook/main.htm
        > This seems to be the Greek translation:
        > http://www.transchurch.org/prayers.html#daily
        > Antiochian:
        > http://www.antiochian.org/morning-prayers
        > http://www.antiochian.org/evening-prayers
        > Others are easy to find online. I would recommend using whatever
        > translation is used at the parish you visit or attend most often.
        > Christopher
        > On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote:
        > > I would caution that conversion simply *from* one faith to another is
        > > bound to be problematic. We can't convert out of anger. We can only
        > > convert *to*, and out of love for God is love and he is the
        > > destination.
        > >
        > > Obviously, there are always factors that cause us to begin looing or
        > > to be open to alternatives, and these are often infruriating, hurtful,
        > > etc., but the actual conversion must be because of the truth, merit,
        > > beauty of what is found: the pearl of great price.
        > >
        > > May the Lord and his saints care for you in your inquiry.
        > >
        > > If you aren't praying regularly, start. Morning and evening. Try
        > > saying just the introductory prayers from the prayer book: O Heavenly
        > > King, Holy God, Most Holy Trinity, Our Father (translations vary for
        > > these prayers). Or, the Jesus Prayer, but regularly. You can't think
        > > your way through this, regardless of where you land.
        > >
        > > Christopher
        > >
        > > On 9/14/12, mygourami <mygourami@...> wrote:
        > > >> So, I find myself in a Church that has a good paper confession but
        > > >> does not live it out. You will find Eastern Orthodoxy more of a Church
        > > >> without a confession, in that, it has a living tradition that
        > continues
        > > >> to this day. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. I pray that
        > > >> you find peace and Jesus Christ in whichever Communion you find is
        > > >> truest to the Scriptures.
        > > >>
        > > >> Many former Lutherans have "gone East," and, unlike some, I do not
        > > >> see them as forsaking their salvation. Maria, in short, where will you
        > > >> best find Jesus Christ and Him crucified? If you find Him better in
        > > >> Eastern Orthodoxy because Lutheranism has so strayed and bought into
        > > >> the nonsense of modern-day Protestantism, I wish you well. If you find
        > > >> Him better in a Lutheran Church that is truly Lutheran, I also wish
        > you
        > > >> well.
        > > >>
        > > >> Pr. RF
        > > >
        > > > We have actually spent over a year visiting other Lutheran-LCMS within
        > > our
        > > > area and one out of state while visiting relatives. They are all over
        > the
        > > > map, so to say. I actually cried at one when they projected on the
        > > screens
        > > > some mindless dribble 'song' where they had the kids repeat a single
        > > phrase
        > > > over and over and we left before the song ended. Our own church is
        > being
        > > > torn apart by what my husband and I call 'new age' Christians, dont
        > know
        > > > what the current term for them is. We did find one church where the
        > > pastor
        > > > still sung the liturgy, uses the red hymnal, and has traditional
        > Lutheran
        > > > Advent and Lenten seasons - why we became Lutheran in the first
        > > place...yet
        > > > he is in his late 30's and I do not know what they are teaching at
        > > Concordia
        > > > U but they are not studying Luther, more like venomous Calvin. I do not
        > > > believe the LCMS has much of a future, when all the red-hymnal folk are
        > > > gone. I fought against the school district for years until I gave up
        > and
        > > > homeschooled my kids, I gave up campaigning for the 'conservative'
        > party
        > > and
        > > > now rally behind 3rd party candidates, and I am abandoning the sinking
        > > ship
        > > > LCMS and taking the life raft offered by the EO.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > Sent from my mobile device
        > >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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