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Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Jurisdictions

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  • randall hay
    Some of the things people are saying aren t really paralleling what I have experienced. For instance, I go to a church that is Russian in style/ethos/music,
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 12, 2010
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      Some of the things people are saying aren't really paralleling what I have
      experienced. For instance, I go to a church that is "Russian" in
      style/ethos/music, but is under the Patriarch of Bulgaria. Much of the OCA has
      been influenced by "Russian" practices, but of course it is not under Moscow.

      ---And I think what Wikileaks says about the Patriarchate of Moscow is a whole
      topic that would take some research and fair discussion, and would have no
      relevance to somebody deciding what parish to go to...esp since only a handful
      of parishes in the US are under Moscow.


      I think we all tend to form our own views on the topic of the differing
      jurisdictions, and it would be best to just visit the different parishes and see
      what fits best, see which feels right for you. We are not like RC in this sense,
      where you are expected to go to the nearest church. We recognize that
      different people fit in better at different places. It's the same with people
      interested in becoming monastics; they visit different monasteries as sees
      what's the best fit.


      I have found that how visitors/converts are greeted isn't a function of the
      archdiocese, but the particular parish. (The same as in Lutheranism, in other
      words.)


      Just remember that all Orthodox are still sinners, just like we were in the
      NT...and I think you will be staggered by the grace you experience (and also by
      the demons' attacks)...

      Prayers,

      R.















      ________________________________
      From: waynewhitmer <waywhit@...>
      To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 1:10:40 PM
      Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Jurisdictions


      I just posted this on Monachos.net and would also like to hear the opinions of
      my fellow Lutherans.


      I just read an article regarding Fr Peter Gilquist and it states:

      "Gilquest said he chose to join the Antiochan Orthodox Church because he asked
      himself when the church in Antioch died, and realized it never did."

      What are the essential distinguishing characteristics of each Orthodox
      jurisdiction? Is there a good article which addresses their origins and
      differences? Were I to convert to Orthodoxy I would have 2 choices locally and 1
      choice within an hour away from my residence. 1. OCA 2. GOARCH and the 3rd an
      hour away would be AOCANA.


      Does it really matter or is one more open to converts than others? I know in the
      end I need to visit these parishes to understand however I'm interested in your
      thoughts?

      Regards,

      Wayne Whitmer




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Christopher Orr
      I agree with Randy. Most of the things I mentioned are not really pertinent to an inquirer, catechumen or new convert. I took the question too much in the
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 13, 2010
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        I agree with Randy. Most of the things I mentioned are not really pertinent
        to an inquirer, catechumen or new convert. I took the question too much in
        the abstract, academically. Each parish is a microcosm of the church and
        should be investigated on its own terms. It's a blessing to have a choice
        in your area (I have even more being in NYC), though that ability to choose
        causes its own problems.

        I will second the comparison with monastics. Any novice I have known has
        visited a number of monasteries to find one that 'fits'. The monastic
        brotherhood is getting to know the potential novice, too. It's much the
        same way with finding the right parish home. Good thing all things work
        together for the good of them who love God. I find we all have available to
        us exactly what we need.

        Christopher


        On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 8:52 PM, randall hay <stortford@...>wrote:

        >
        >
        > Some of the things people are saying aren't really paralleling what I have
        > experienced. For instance, I go to a church that is "Russian" in
        > style/ethos/music, but is under the Patriarch of Bulgaria. Much of the OCA
        > has
        > been influenced by "Russian" practices, but of course it is not under
        > Moscow.
        >
        > ---And I think what Wikileaks says about the Patriarchate of Moscow is a
        > whole
        > topic that would take some research and fair discussion, and would have no
        > relevance to somebody deciding what parish to go to...esp since only a
        > handful
        > of parishes in the US are under Moscow.
        >
        > I think we all tend to form our own views on the topic of the differing
        > jurisdictions, and it would be best to just visit the different parishes
        > and see
        > what fits best, see which feels right for you. We are not like RC in this
        > sense,
        > where you are expected to go to the nearest church. We recognize that
        > different people fit in better at different places. It's the same with
        > people
        > interested in becoming monastics; they visit different monasteries as sees
        > what's the best fit.
        >
        > I have found that how visitors/converts are greeted isn't a function of the
        >
        > archdiocese, but the particular parish. (The same as in Lutheranism, in
        > other
        > words.)
        >
        > Just remember that all Orthodox are still sinners, just like we were in the
        >
        > NT...and I think you will be staggered by the grace you experience (and
        > also by
        > the demons' attacks)...
        >
        > Prayers,
        >
        > R.
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: waynewhitmer <waywhit@... <waywhit%40gmail.com>>
        > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 1:10:40 PM
        > Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Orthodox Jurisdictions
        >
        >
        > I just posted this on Monachos.net and would also like to hear the opinions
        > of
        > my fellow Lutherans.
        >
        > I just read an article regarding Fr Peter Gilquist and it states:
        >
        > "Gilquest said he chose to join the Antiochan Orthodox Church because he
        > asked
        > himself when the church in Antioch died, and realized it never did."
        >
        > What are the essential distinguishing characteristics of each Orthodox
        > jurisdiction? Is there a good article which addresses their origins and
        > differences? Were I to convert to Orthodoxy I would have 2 choices locally
        > and 1
        > choice within an hour away from my residence. 1. OCA 2. GOARCH and the 3rd
        > an
        > hour away would be AOCANA.
        >
        > Does it really matter or is one more open to converts than others? I know
        > in the
        > end I need to visit these parishes to understand however I'm interested in
        > your
        > thoughts?
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Wayne Whitmer
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • E
        ... Music styles are different. Greek and Antiochians will use Byzantine chant. OCA is more Russian (polyphonic), although Antiochians use lots of Russian
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 13, 2010
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          --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "waynewhitmer" <waywhit@...> wrote:
          >
          > I just posted this on Monachos.net and would also like to hear the opinions of my fellow Lutherans.
          >
          > I just read an article regarding Fr Peter Gilquist and it states:
          >
          > "Gilquest said he chose to join the Antiochan Orthodox Church because he asked himself when the church in Antioch died, and realized it never did."
          >
          > What are the essential distinguishing characteristics of each Orthodox jurisdiction? Is there a good article which addresses their origins and differences? Were I to convert to Orthodoxy I would have 2 choices locally and 1 choice within an hour away from my residence. 1. OCA 2. GOARCH and the 3rd an hour away would be AOCANA.
          >
          > Does it really matter or is one more open to converts than others? I know in the end I need to visit these parishes to understand however I'm interested in your thoughts?
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Wayne Whitmer
          >

          Music styles are different. Greek and Antiochians will use Byzantine chant. OCA is more Russian (polyphonic), although Antiochians use lots of Russian choral music too. My Antiochian parish mixes both Russian choral and Byzantine chant. Food is different too. Yummy baklava and falafels.

          At my old Lutheran parish, majority were of German descent, services were changed over from German to English after WWII I'm told. Now, at my Orthodox parish there is more ethnic diversity, (Syrian, Palestinian, Russian, Greek, Romanian, Bulgarian, Serbian, the USA), but we all sign the +cross the same way!

          No, it doesn't really matter what jurisdiction. I'd say, first, decide if you want to pursue Orthodoxy. If yes, let nothing deter you. Focus on worship at the Divine Liturgy and/or Vespers. The services alone are more than sufficient. The rest will fall into place.
        • Rosemarie Lieffring
          I d like to affirm these wise words from Orthogrammy. Everything eventually falls into place. In my area I opted to attend the local Greek parish only 10
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 14, 2010
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            I'd like to affirm these wise words from Orthogrammy. Everything eventually
            falls into place.

            In my area I opted to attend the local Greek parish only 10 minutes from our
            home, rather than the OCA parish over an hour from my home. Now I preferred
            the OCA parish for a few reasons...everything is done in English and I
            prefer Russian polyphonic music as opposed to the Byzantine Chant.
            Additionally I was drawn to the piety of the folks at the OCA parish and it
            is loaded with converts. But I also knew I would want to be active in my
            parish and be able to attend as many services as possible (having spent a
            half a lifetime without Orthodoxy, I figured I have a lot of lost time to
            make up attending the services!) And the Greek parish, being the only
            Orthodox Church in a college town tends to be a little less Greek drawing
            all kinds of Orthodox attend there, Russian, Romanian, Bulgarian, Serbian,
            you name it so they use more English than some--which for me was very
            important.

            Nonetheless, it is still Greek and that becomes more obvious especially when
            attending events at the Cathedral or with other parishes like the St. John
            Chrysostom Oratorical festivals or even holding our own Greek festival. At
            first I struggled with the Greek thing. There isn't one iota of Greek in
            me. But over time, as Orthogrammy points out, everything has fallen into
            place and I am quite at home being a non-Greek in our Greek parish.

            So do what makes sense for you. As my priest says "soak up the services."
            Expect that there will be cultural differences. Open your mind and heart to
            them. You'll learn to appreciate them over time. And they will learn to
            appreciate what you bring to the parish...especially if you bring Bavarian
            Brezen to the covered dish luncheons! ;) -----R


            On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 12:31 AM, E <orthogrammy@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,
            > "waynewhitmer" <waywhit@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > I just posted this on Monachos.net and would also like to hear the
            > opinions of my fellow Lutherans.
            > >
            > > I just read an article regarding Fr Peter Gilquist and it states:
            > >
            > > "Gilquest said he chose to join the Antiochan Orthodox Church because he
            > asked himself when the church in Antioch died, and realized it never did."
            > >
            > > What are the essential distinguishing characteristics of each Orthodox
            > jurisdiction? Is there a good article which addresses their origins and
            > differences? Were I to convert to Orthodoxy I would have 2 choices locally
            > and 1 choice within an hour away from my residence. 1. OCA 2. GOARCH and the
            > 3rd an hour away would be AOCANA.
            > >
            > > Does it really matter or is one more open to converts than others? I know
            > in the end I need to visit these parishes to understand however I'm
            > interested in your thoughts?
            > >
            > > Regards,
            > >
            > > Wayne Whitmer
            > >
            >
            > Music styles are different. Greek and Antiochians will use Byzantine chant.
            > OCA is more Russian (polyphonic), although Antiochians use lots of Russian
            > choral music too. My Antiochian parish mixes both Russian choral and
            > Byzantine chant. Food is different too. Yummy baklava and falafels.
            >
            > At my old Lutheran parish, majority were of German descent, services were
            > changed over from German to English after WWII I'm told. Now, at my Orthodox
            > parish there is more ethnic diversity, (Syrian, Palestinian, Russian, Greek,
            > Romanian, Bulgarian, Serbian, the USA), but we all sign the +cross the same
            > way!
            >
            > No, it doesn't really matter what jurisdiction. I'd say, first, decide if
            > you want to pursue Orthodoxy. If yes, let nothing deter you. Focus on
            > worship at the Divine Liturgy and/or Vespers. The services alone are more
            > than sufficient. The rest will fall into place.
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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