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Theology of the Cross

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  • Christopher Orr
    The Lutheranism I grew up in often referred to the differences between a theology of the cross and a theology of glory. Ben Harju discusses this difference
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 14, 2010
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      The Lutheranism I grew up in often referred to the differences between a
      theology of the cross and a theology of glory. Ben Harju discusses this
      difference here<http://paredwka.blogspot.com/2010/06/theologians-of-cross-glory-and.html>and
      here<http://paredwka.blogspot.com/2010/08/accused-again-theology-of-glory.html>
      .

      Given that today is the Feast of the Exaltation of the Cross, I thought it
      important to point out a few things.

      First, there are 3 major feasts of the Cross throughout the year: today's
      feast of the Universal Exaltation and Elevation of the Precious and
      Life-Giving Cross<http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=102610>(September
      14), Great
      and Holy Friday<http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=25>(Good
      Friday), and the Procession
      of the Venerable Wood of the Life-Creating Cross of the
      Lord<http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=102161>(August
      1).

      In addition, there are approximately 56 mini-feasts of the Cross throughout
      the year: each and every Friday of the year. The Octoechos (Paraklitiki)
      texts written by St. John of Damascus that form a major part of the
      'regular' moveable portions of the daily cycle of services revolve around
      the Cross on Fridays. There are eight sets of texts for Fridays - one for
      each of the eight 'tones', melodies or modes used in alternation throughout
      the year. A selection of weekly hymns for the Cross can be found
      here<http://anastasis.org.uk/friday_matins.htm>and
      here <http://anastasis.org.uk/friday_matins1.htm>.

      To read at least some of the Cross texts used in the September 14 services
      of the Orthodox Church see
      here<http://www.oca.org/PDF/liturgicaltexts/09.September/2010-0914-texts.doc>
      .

      Fr. Stephen Freeman also has a very good reflection on the Cross and the
      Mystery of Salvation
      here<http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2010/09/13/the-cross-of-christ-2/>
      .


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • mrthatoneguy92
      I went to Divine Liturgy for the Exaltation of the Cross last night. Very informative. And to be honest, it was the most Christ-centred Cross-focused
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 14, 2010
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        I went to Divine Liturgy for the Exaltation of the Cross last night. Very informative. And to be honest, it was the most "Christ-centred" "Cross-focused" sermon I've heard in a long time.

        --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote:
        >
        > The Lutheranism I grew up in often referred to the differences between a
        > theology of the cross and a theology of glory. Ben Harju discusses this
        > difference here<http://paredwka.blogspot.com/2010/06/theologians-of-cross-glory-and.html>and
        > here<http://paredwka.blogspot.com/2010/08/accused-again-theology-of-glory.html>
        > .
        >
        > Given that today is the Feast of the Exaltation of the Cross, I thought it
        > important to point out a few things.
        >
        > First, there are 3 major feasts of the Cross throughout the year: today's
        > feast of the Universal Exaltation and Elevation of the Precious and
        > Life-Giving Cross<http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=102610>(September
        > 14), Great
        > and Holy Friday<http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=25>(Good
        > Friday), and the Procession
        > of the Venerable Wood of the Life-Creating Cross of the
        > Lord<http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=102161>(August
        > 1).
        >
        > In addition, there are approximately 56 mini-feasts of the Cross throughout
        > the year: each and every Friday of the year. The Octoechos (Paraklitiki)
        > texts written by St. John of Damascus that form a major part of the
        > 'regular' moveable portions of the daily cycle of services revolve around
        > the Cross on Fridays. There are eight sets of texts for Fridays - one for
        > each of the eight 'tones', melodies or modes used in alternation throughout
        > the year. A selection of weekly hymns for the Cross can be found
        > here<http://anastasis.org.uk/friday_matins.htm>and
        > here <http://anastasis.org.uk/friday_matins1.htm>.
        >
        > To read at least some of the Cross texts used in the September 14 services
        > of the Orthodox Church see
        > here<http://www.oca.org/PDF/liturgicaltexts/09.September/2010-0914-texts.doc>
        > .
        >
        > Fr. Stephen Freeman also has a very good reflection on the Cross and the
        > Mystery of Salvation
        > here<http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2010/09/13/the-cross-of-christ-2/>
        > .
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Christopher Orr
        Glory to God! Definitely take a look at the texts from Vespers and Matins (Orthros), too, if all you attended was Divine Liturgy. The Divine Liturgy is mainly
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 14, 2010
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          Glory to God!

          Definitely take a look at the texts from Vespers and Matins (Orthros), too,
          if all you attended was Divine Liturgy. The Divine Liturgy is mainly
          unchangeable; the meat of the theology of the feast is to be found in the
          changeable sections of Vespers and Matins (Orthros).

          I remember during my first visits to an Orthodox church being shocked at
          home radically Cross and Christ focused the services were - and how
          Trinitarian. People were making the sign of the Cross all the time, the
          priest was blessing with the Cross, the Trinity was exclaimed constantly,
          and every reference to the Mother of God was accompanied by her Son's Cross
          underlining that any focus on her is focus on her Son and our God.

          Christopher



          On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 3:10 PM, mrthatoneguy92 <timsteele2@...>wrote:

          >
          >
          > I went to Divine Liturgy for the Exaltation of the Cross last night. Very
          > informative. And to be honest, it was the most "Christ-centred"
          > "Cross-focused" sermon I've heard in a long time.
          >
          > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,
          > Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > The Lutheranism I grew up in often referred to the differences between a
          > > theology of the cross and a theology of glory. Ben Harju discusses this
          > > difference here<
          > http://paredwka.blogspot.com/2010/06/theologians-of-cross-glory-and.html
          > >and
          > > here<
          > http://paredwka.blogspot.com/2010/08/accused-again-theology-of-glory.html>
          >
          > > .
          > >
          > > Given that today is the Feast of the Exaltation of the Cross, I thought
          > it
          > > important to point out a few things.
          > >
          > > First, there are 3 major feasts of the Cross throughout the year: today's
          > > feast of the Universal Exaltation and Elevation of the Precious and
          > > Life-Giving Cross<
          > http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=102610
          > >(September
          > > 14), Great
          > > and Holy Friday<
          > http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=25>(Good
          >
          > > Friday), and the Procession
          > > of the Venerable Wood of the Life-Creating Cross of the
          > > Lord<http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=102161
          > >(August
          >
          > > 1).
          > >
          > > In addition, there are approximately 56 mini-feasts of the Cross
          > throughout
          > > the year: each and every Friday of the year. The Octoechos (Paraklitiki)
          > > texts written by St. John of Damascus that form a major part of the
          > > 'regular' moveable portions of the daily cycle of services revolve around
          > > the Cross on Fridays. There are eight sets of texts for Fridays - one for
          > > each of the eight 'tones', melodies or modes used in alternation
          > throughout
          > > the year. A selection of weekly hymns for the Cross can be found
          > > here<http://anastasis.org.uk/friday_matins.htm>and
          > > here <http://anastasis.org.uk/friday_matins1.htm>.
          >
          > >
          > > To read at least some of the Cross texts used in the September 14
          > services
          > > of the Orthodox Church see
          > > here<
          > http://www.oca.org/PDF/liturgicaltexts/09.September/2010-0914-texts.doc>
          >
          > > .
          > >
          > > Fr. Stephen Freeman also has a very good reflection on the Cross and the
          > > Mystery of Salvation
          > > here<
          > http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2010/09/13/the-cross-of-christ-2/>
          > > .
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • mrthatoneguy92
          Where would I find the information for Vespers and Orthos for the Feast? Because of my work, I have little chance to attend church (let alone an Orthodox
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 14, 2010
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            Where would I find the information for Vespers and Orthos for the Feast?

            Because of my work, I have little chance to attend church (let alone an Orthodox Divine Liturgy!). Thus, I go to what I can.

            I agree with your comments about how Trinitarian the service is. And the parts about Mary as well. Still, I'm not saying "Oh Holy Theotokos, save us!" quite yet. I do not plan on making any such invocations until I decide which camp I'm going to pitch tent in. I'm not fond of cafeteria religion.

            But, back to the main subject... *is guilty for going off track*

            --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote:
            >
            > Glory to God!
            >
            > Definitely take a look at the texts from Vespers and Matins (Orthros), too,
            > if all you attended was Divine Liturgy. The Divine Liturgy is mainly
            > unchangeable; the meat of the theology of the feast is to be found in the
            > changeable sections of Vespers and Matins (Orthros).
            >
            > I remember during my first visits to an Orthodox church being shocked at
            > home radically Cross and Christ focused the services were - and how
            > Trinitarian. People were making the sign of the Cross all the time, the
            > priest was blessing with the Cross, the Trinity was exclaimed constantly,
            > and every reference to the Mother of God was accompanied by her Son's Cross
            > underlining that any focus on her is focus on her Son and our God.
            >
            > Christopher
            >
            >
            >
            > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 3:10 PM, mrthatoneguy92 <timsteele2@...>wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > I went to Divine Liturgy for the Exaltation of the Cross last night. Very
            > > informative. And to be honest, it was the most "Christ-centred"
            > > "Cross-focused" sermon I've heard in a long time.
            > >
            > > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,
            > > Christopher Orr <xcjorr@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > The Lutheranism I grew up in often referred to the differences between a
            > > > theology of the cross and a theology of glory. Ben Harju discusses this
            > > > difference here<
            > > http://paredwka.blogspot.com/2010/06/theologians-of-cross-glory-and.html
            > > >and
            > > > here<
            > > http://paredwka.blogspot.com/2010/08/accused-again-theology-of-glory.html>
            > >
            > > > .
            > > >
            > > > Given that today is the Feast of the Exaltation of the Cross, I thought
            > > it
            > > > important to point out a few things.
            > > >
            > > > First, there are 3 major feasts of the Cross throughout the year: today's
            > > > feast of the Universal Exaltation and Elevation of the Precious and
            > > > Life-Giving Cross<
            > > http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=102610
            > > >(September
            > > > 14), Great
            > > > and Holy Friday<
            > > http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=25>(Good
            > >
            > > > Friday), and the Procession
            > > > of the Venerable Wood of the Life-Creating Cross of the
            > > > Lord<http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=102161
            > > >(August
            > >
            > > > 1).
            > > >
            > > > In addition, there are approximately 56 mini-feasts of the Cross
            > > throughout
            > > > the year: each and every Friday of the year. The Octoechos (Paraklitiki)
            > > > texts written by St. John of Damascus that form a major part of the
            > > > 'regular' moveable portions of the daily cycle of services revolve around
            > > > the Cross on Fridays. There are eight sets of texts for Fridays - one for
            > > > each of the eight 'tones', melodies or modes used in alternation
            > > throughout
            > > > the year. A selection of weekly hymns for the Cross can be found
            > > > here<http://anastasis.org.uk/friday_matins.htm>and
            > > > here <http://anastasis.org.uk/friday_matins1.htm>.
            > >
            > > >
            > > > To read at least some of the Cross texts used in the September 14
            > > services
            > > > of the Orthodox Church see
            > > > here<
            > > http://www.oca.org/PDF/liturgicaltexts/09.September/2010-0914-texts.doc>
            > >
            > > > .
            > > >
            > > > Fr. Stephen Freeman also has a very good reflection on the Cross and the
            > > > Mystery of Salvation
            > > > here<
            > > http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2010/09/13/the-cross-of-christ-2/>
            > > > .
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • mrthatoneguy92
            P.S.- I find it interesting also that the Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross was my third Liturgy I attended. God sure works in mysterious ways...
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 14, 2010
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              P.S.- I find it interesting also that the Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross was my third Liturgy I attended. God sure works in mysterious ways...

              --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "mrthatoneguy92" <timsteele2@...> wrote:
              >
              > Where would I find the information for Vespers and Orthos for the Feast?
              >
              > Because of my work, I have little chance to attend church (let alone an Orthodox Divine Liturgy!). Thus, I go to what I can.
              >
              > I agree with your comments about how Trinitarian the service is. And the parts about Mary as well. Still, I'm not saying "Oh Holy Theotokos, save us!" quite yet. I do not plan on making any such invocations until I decide which camp I'm going to pitch tent in. I'm not fond of cafeteria religion.
              >
              > But, back to the main subject... *is guilty for going off track*
              >
              > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Orr <xcjorr@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Glory to God!
              > >
              > > Definitely take a look at the texts from Vespers and Matins (Orthros), too,
              > > if all you attended was Divine Liturgy. The Divine Liturgy is mainly
              > > unchangeable; the meat of the theology of the feast is to be found in the
              > > changeable sections of Vespers and Matins (Orthros).
              > >
              > > I remember during my first visits to an Orthodox church being shocked at
              > > home radically Cross and Christ focused the services were - and how
              > > Trinitarian. People were making the sign of the Cross all the time, the
              > > priest was blessing with the Cross, the Trinity was exclaimed constantly,
              > > and every reference to the Mother of God was accompanied by her Son's Cross
              > > underlining that any focus on her is focus on her Son and our God.
              > >
              > > Christopher
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 3:10 PM, mrthatoneguy92 <timsteele2@>wrote:
              > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > I went to Divine Liturgy for the Exaltation of the Cross last night. Very
              > > > informative. And to be honest, it was the most "Christ-centred"
              > > > "Cross-focused" sermon I've heard in a long time.
              > > >
              > > > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > > > Christopher Orr <xcjorr@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > The Lutheranism I grew up in often referred to the differences between a
              > > > > theology of the cross and a theology of glory. Ben Harju discusses this
              > > > > difference here<
              > > > http://paredwka.blogspot.com/2010/06/theologians-of-cross-glory-and.html
              > > > >and
              > > > > here<
              > > > http://paredwka.blogspot.com/2010/08/accused-again-theology-of-glory.html>
              > > >
              > > > > .
              > > > >
              > > > > Given that today is the Feast of the Exaltation of the Cross, I thought
              > > > it
              > > > > important to point out a few things.
              > > > >
              > > > > First, there are 3 major feasts of the Cross throughout the year: today's
              > > > > feast of the Universal Exaltation and Elevation of the Precious and
              > > > > Life-Giving Cross<
              > > > http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=102610
              > > > >(September
              > > > > 14), Great
              > > > > and Holy Friday<
              > > > http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=25>(Good
              > > >
              > > > > Friday), and the Procession
              > > > > of the Venerable Wood of the Life-Creating Cross of the
              > > > > Lord<http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=102161
              > > > >(August
              > > >
              > > > > 1).
              > > > >
              > > > > In addition, there are approximately 56 mini-feasts of the Cross
              > > > throughout
              > > > > the year: each and every Friday of the year. The Octoechos (Paraklitiki)
              > > > > texts written by St. John of Damascus that form a major part of the
              > > > > 'regular' moveable portions of the daily cycle of services revolve around
              > > > > the Cross on Fridays. There are eight sets of texts for Fridays - one for
              > > > > each of the eight 'tones', melodies or modes used in alternation
              > > > throughout
              > > > > the year. A selection of weekly hymns for the Cross can be found
              > > > > here<http://anastasis.org.uk/friday_matins.htm>and
              > > > > here <http://anastasis.org.uk/friday_matins1.htm>.
              > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > To read at least some of the Cross texts used in the September 14
              > > > services
              > > > > of the Orthodox Church see
              > > > > here<
              > > > http://www.oca.org/PDF/liturgicaltexts/09.September/2010-0914-texts.doc>
              > > >
              > > > > .
              > > > >
              > > > > Fr. Stephen Freeman also has a very good reflection on the Cross and the
              > > > > Mystery of Salvation
              > > > > here<
              > > > http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2010/09/13/the-cross-of-christ-2/>
              > > > > .
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • xcjorr@gmail.com
              The service texts can be found here: http://www.oca.org/PDF/liturgicaltexts/09.September/2010-0914-texts.doc Christopher Sent from my Verizon Wireless
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 14, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                The service texts can be found here:

                http://www.oca.org/PDF/liturgicaltexts/09.September/2010-0914-texts.doc

                Christopher

                Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                -----Original Message-----
                From: "mrthatoneguy92" <timsteele2@...>
                Sender: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 22:48:45
                To: <LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com>
                Reply-To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Theology of the Cross

                Where would I find the information for Vespers and Orthos for the Feast?

                Because of my work, I have little chance to attend church (let alone an Orthodox Divine Liturgy!). Thus, I go to what I can.

                I agree with your comments about how Trinitarian the service is. And the parts about Mary as well. Still, I'm not saying "Oh Holy Theotokos, save us!" quite yet. I do not plan on making any such invocations until I decide which camp I'm going to pitch tent in. I'm not fond of cafeteria religion.

                But, back to the main subject... *is guilty for going off track*

                --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote:
                >
                > Glory to God!
                >
                > Definitely take a look at the texts from Vespers and Matins (Orthros), too,
                > if all you attended was Divine Liturgy. The Divine Liturgy is mainly
                > unchangeable; the meat of the theology of the feast is to be found in the
                > changeable sections of Vespers and Matins (Orthros).
                >
                > I remember during my first visits to an Orthodox church being shocked at
                > home radically Cross and Christ focused the services were - and how
                > Trinitarian. People were making the sign of the Cross all the time, the
                > priest was blessing with the Cross, the Trinity was exclaimed constantly,
                > and every reference to the Mother of God was accompanied by her Son's Cross
                > underlining that any focus on her is focus on her Son and our God.
                >
                > Christopher
                >
                >
                >
                > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 3:10 PM, mrthatoneguy92 <timsteele2@...>wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > I went to Divine Liturgy for the Exaltation of the Cross last night. Very
                > > informative. And to be honest, it was the most "Christ-centred"
                > > "Cross-focused" sermon I've heard in a long time.
                > >
                > > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,
                > > Christopher Orr <xcjorr@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > The Lutheranism I grew up in often referred to the differences between a
                > > > theology of the cross and a theology of glory. Ben Harju discusses this
                > > > difference here<
                > > http://paredwka.blogspot.com/2010/06/theologians-of-cross-glory-and.html
                > > >and
                > > > here<
                > > http://paredwka.blogspot.com/2010/08/accused-again-theology-of-glory.html>
                > >
                > > > .
                > > >
                > > > Given that today is the Feast of the Exaltation of the Cross, I thought
                > > it
                > > > important to point out a few things.
                > > >
                > > > First, there are 3 major feasts of the Cross throughout the year: today's
                > > > feast of the Universal Exaltation and Elevation of the Precious and
                > > > Life-Giving Cross<
                > > http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=102610
                > > >(September
                > > > 14), Great
                > > > and Holy Friday<
                > > http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=25>(Good
                > >
                > > > Friday), and the Procession
                > > > of the Venerable Wood of the Life-Creating Cross of the
                > > > Lord<http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=102161
                > > >(August
                > >
                > > > 1).
                > > >
                > > > In addition, there are approximately 56 mini-feasts of the Cross
                > > throughout
                > > > the year: each and every Friday of the year. The Octoechos (Paraklitiki)
                > > > texts written by St. John of Damascus that form a major part of the
                > > > 'regular' moveable portions of the daily cycle of services revolve around
                > > > the Cross on Fridays. There are eight sets of texts for Fridays - one for
                > > > each of the eight 'tones', melodies or modes used in alternation
                > > throughout
                > > > the year. A selection of weekly hymns for the Cross can be found
                > > > here<http://anastasis.org.uk/friday_matins.htm>and
                > > > here <http://anastasis.org.uk/friday_matins1.htm>.
                > >
                > > >
                > > > To read at least some of the Cross texts used in the September 14
                > > services
                > > > of the Orthodox Church see
                > > > here<
                > > http://www.oca.org/PDF/liturgicaltexts/09.September/2010-0914-texts.doc>
                > >
                > > > .
                > > >
                > > > Fr. Stephen Freeman also has a very good reflection on the Cross and the
                > > > Mystery of Salvation
                > > > here<
                > > http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2010/09/13/the-cross-of-christ-2/>
                > > > .
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Christopher Orr
                You can also find a more limited selection of hymns for the feast here:
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 14, 2010
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                  You can also find a more limited selection of hymns for the feast here:

                  http://books.google.com/books?id=hVIXAAAAYAAJ&dq=hapgood%20service%20book&pg=PA167#v=onepage&q&f=false

                  and the a general service to the Cross here:

                  http://books.google.com/books?id=VgfZAAAAMAAJ&dq=menaion&pg=PA24#v=onepage&q&f=false

                  Christopher



                  On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:04 PM, <xcjorr@...> wrote:

                  > The service texts can be found here:
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www.oca.org/PDF/liturgicaltexts/09.September/2010-0914-texts.doc
                  >
                  > Christopher
                  >
                  > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                  > ------------------------------
                  > *From: * "mrthatoneguy92" <timsteele2@...>
                  > *Sender: * LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                  > *Date: *Tue, 14 Sep 2010 22:48:45 -0000
                  > *To: *<LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com>
                  > *ReplyTo: * LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                  > *Subject: *[LutheransLookingEast] Re: Theology of the Cross
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Where would I find the information for Vespers and Orthos for the Feast?
                  >
                  > Because of my work, I have little chance to attend church (let alone an
                  > Orthodox Divine Liturgy!). Thus, I go to what I can.
                  >
                  > I agree with your comments about how Trinitarian the service is. And the
                  > parts about Mary as well. Still, I'm not saying "Oh Holy Theotokos, save
                  > us!" quite yet. I do not plan on making any such invocations until I decide
                  > which camp I'm going to pitch tent in. I'm not fond of cafeteria religion.
                  >
                  > But, back to the main subject... *is guilty for going off track*
                  >
                  > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Glory to God!
                  > >
                  > > Definitely take a look at the texts from Vespers and Matins (Orthros),
                  > too,
                  > > if all you attended was Divine Liturgy. The Divine Liturgy is mainly
                  > > unchangeable; the meat of the theology of the feast is to be found in the
                  > > changeable sections of Vespers and Matins (Orthros).
                  > >
                  > > I remember during my first visits to an Orthodox church being shocked at
                  > > home radically Cross and Christ focused the services were - and how
                  > > Trinitarian. People were making the sign of the Cross all the time, the
                  > > priest was blessing with the Cross, the Trinity was exclaimed constantly,
                  > > and every reference to the Mother of God was accompanied by her Son's
                  > Cross
                  > > underlining that any focus on her is focus on her Son and our God.
                  > >
                  > > Christopher
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 3:10 PM, mrthatoneguy92 <timsteele2@...>wrote:
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > I went to Divine Liturgy for the Exaltation of the Cross last night.
                  > Very
                  > > > informative. And to be honest, it was the most "Christ-centred"
                  > > > "Cross-focused" sermon I've heard in a long time.
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > <LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > > > Christopher Orr <xcjorr@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The Lutheranism I grew up in often referred to the differences
                  > between a
                  > > > > theology of the cross and a theology of glory. Ben Harju discusses
                  > this
                  > > > > difference here<
                  > > >
                  > http://paredwka.blogspot.com/2010/06/theologians-of-cross-glory-and.html
                  > > > >and
                  > > > > here<
                  > > >
                  > http://paredwka.blogspot.com/2010/08/accused-again-theology-of-glory.html>
                  > > >
                  > > > > .
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Given that today is the Feast of the Exaltation of the Cross, I
                  > thought
                  > > > it
                  > > > > important to point out a few things.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > First, there are 3 major feasts of the Cross throughout the year:
                  > today's
                  > > > > feast of the Universal Exaltation and Elevation of the Precious and
                  > > > > Life-Giving Cross<
                  > > > http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=102610
                  > > > >(September
                  > > > > 14), Great
                  > > > > and Holy Friday<
                  > > > http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=25>(Good
                  > > >
                  > > > > Friday), and the Procession
                  > > > > of the Venerable Wood of the Life-Creating Cross of the
                  > > > > Lord<
                  > http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=102161
                  > > > >(August
                  > > >
                  > > > > 1).
                  > > > >
                  > > > > In addition, there are approximately 56 mini-feasts of the Cross
                  > > > throughout
                  > > > > the year: each and every Friday of the year. The Octoechos
                  > (Paraklitiki)
                  > > > > texts written by St. John of Damascus that form a major part of the
                  > > > > 'regular' moveable portions of the daily cycle of services revolve
                  > around
                  > > > > the Cross on Fridays. There are eight sets of texts for Fridays - one
                  > for
                  > > > > each of the eight 'tones', melodies or modes used in alternation
                  > > > throughout
                  > > > > the year. A selection of weekly hymns for the Cross can be found
                  > > > > here<http://anastasis.org.uk/friday_matins.htm>and
                  > > > > here <http://anastasis.org.uk/friday_matins1.htm>.
                  > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > To read at least some of the Cross texts used in the September 14
                  > > > services
                  > > > > of the Orthodox Church see
                  > > > > here<
                  > > >
                  > http://www.oca.org/PDF/liturgicaltexts/09.September/2010-0914-texts.doc>
                  > > >
                  > > > > .
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Fr. Stephen Freeman also has a very good reflection on the Cross and
                  > the
                  > > > > Mystery of Salvation
                  > > > > here<
                  > > > http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2010/09/13/the-cross-of-christ-2/>
                  > > > > .
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >


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