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Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Newly christmated

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  • Christopher Orr
    Here are a few resources discussing the issue of the reception of converts from non-Orthodox, but Christian churches: - On Non-Orthodox Baptism I
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 16, 2010
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      Here are a few resources discussing the issue of the reception of converts
      from non-Orthodox, but Christian churches:


      - On Non-Orthodox Baptism I
      (Pagodin)<http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/reception_church_a_pagodin.htm>
      - On Non-Orthodox Baptism II
      (Metallinos)<http://www.oodegr.com/english/biblia/baptisma1/perieh.htm#periex>
      - On Non-Orthodox Baptism III
      (Rodzianko)<http://www.holy-trinity.org/liturgics/rodzianko-acceptance.html>
      - On Non-Orthodox Baptism IV
      (Erickson)<http://jbburnett.com/resources/erickson_reception-svtq97.pdf>


      For the record, I was received into the Orthodox Church by baptism; my
      sister was received by chrismation.

      A question to ponder when thinking about this issue is how various churches
      view the baptism of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses who consider themselves
      to be fully Christian, but who are considered anything but by most
      traditional Protestants (and Catholics). The question comes down to what is
      the minimum of form required to be recognized as the Church's Baptism,
      rather than something vaguely resembling the full rite but called baptism.
      Some Orthodox argue that water and the trinitarian formula is 'enough',
      others argue that triple immersion and the trinitarian formula are enough,
      others argue that triple immersion and the trinitarian formula done within
      the Orthodox Church are enough. Within this context, it isn't about
      re-baptism, it is about whether baptism ever took place in the first place.

      Christopher


      On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 3:13 PM, DAVID TINKER <davidtinker@...>wrote:

      >
      >
      > So, I'm new to this list and to my curiosity as a Lutheran Looking East.
      >
      > Is it standard practice for Orthodox congregations to re-baptize baptized
      > Christians - who come from other Christian traditions - such as myself? It
      > seems so strongly contrary to the Christian faith to re-baptize. Maybe
      > someone on this list could explain this to me or point me to resources which
      > might explain the process of becoming an Orthodox Christian, including
      > issues related to possible re-baptizing of otherwise faithful, baptized
      > Christians.
      >
      > -- David Tinker
      > Ohio
      >
      > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Kimberly Sparling <belleartmom@...<belleartmom%40gmail.com>>
      > wrote:
      >
      > From: Kimberly Sparling <belleartmom@... <belleartmom%40gmail.com>>
      > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Newly christmated
      > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 2:30 PM
      >
      >
      > May God grant you many years, David!
      > My dh and I became catechumens on January 1, 2010. Our children will be
      > baptized sometime before Pascha this year so they may begin receiving the
      > Eucharist. They are also taking classes to prepare them for their first
      > confession. They were baptized in the Methodist church during the brief
      > period we attended there when they were toddlers; my dh and I were baptized
      > in the Methodist church as children, too. Our priest has requested that we
      > all be baptized in the Orthodox church before chrismation.
      > God Bless,
      > Kim
      >
      > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 11:41 AM, luvlinguae <reddogzrule@...<reddogzrule%40gmail.com>>
      > wrote:
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi,
      > >
      > > I don't come on here very much anymore, since I'd been immersing myself
      > in
      > > the Orthodox Church and its life over the past year. Wanted to just say
      > that
      > > I am now yet another former LCMS Lutheran who has joined the Orthodox
      > > Church, my chrismation having been just last Sunday January 10.
      > >
      > > I humbly ask for your prayers for the Lord's continued guidance as I
      > start
      > > off on this journey as a "green Orthodox".
      > >
      > > Blessings,
      > >
      > > David
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Christopher Orr
      God grant you all many years! Don t spill the grace that s been given you - the spiritual life is like carrying a very full bowl. Christopher ... [Non-text
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 16, 2010
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        God grant you all many years! Don't spill the grace that's been given you -
        the spiritual life is like carrying a very full bowl.

        Christopher



        On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 12:41 PM, luvlinguae <reddogzrule@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > I don't come on here very much anymore, since I'd been immersing myself in
        > the Orthodox Church and its life over the past year. Wanted to just say that
        > I am now yet another former LCMS Lutheran who has joined the Orthodox
        > Church, my chrismation having been just last Sunday January 10.
        >
        > I humbly ask for your prayers for the Lord's continued guidance as I start
        > off on this journey as a "green Orthodox".
        >
        > Blessings,
        >
        > David
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • DAVID TINKER
        A few years ago I saw a copy of book published, I think, by American Lutheran Publicity Bureau (ALPB, Lutheran Forum) about Lutheranism and Eastern
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 16, 2010
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          A few years ago I saw a copy of book published, I think, by American Lutheran Publicity Bureau (ALPB, Lutheran Forum) about Lutheranism and Eastern Orthodoxy.  When I looked on the ALPB web site recently I could not find anything about it.  I've tried to see if Amazon.com used books might have it, but to no avail.  I asked some colleagues about this, but nobody remembered it. Maybe some of you all might know of this book, how to find it, if it is worth a read, etc.  Regrettably, I do not have a title to share with you.

          This book, although I didn't get to read it, was a major spark in my pondering regarding Eastern Orthodoxy.  Another was when, a few years ago, the men's group at our church hosted the local OCA priest who gave a presentation about the Orthodox Church. 

          Thanks for you warm welcome and your help in my quest.

          - David Tinker


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David Tinker
          Thank you. What I have read so far has been helpful. David Tinker
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 16, 2010
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            Thank you. What I have read so far has been helpful.

            David Tinker
          • Benjamin Harju
            David, Perhaps you are describing Salvation in Christ: a Lutheran-Orthodox Dialogue. It s not from ALBP, but it does treat on the area of doctrinal
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 17, 2010
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              David,

              Perhaps you are describing "Salvation in Christ: a Lutheran-Orthodox
              Dialogue." It's not from ALBP, but it does treat on the area of
              doctrinal dialogue. I read this a few years ago, and it was likewise
              helpful to me. One of the contributors was also a presenter at the
              Colloquium for Lutherans held a couple years back.

              If this is what you are trying to find, Amazon lists it at
              http://www.amazon.com/Salvation-Christ-Lutheran-Orthodox-Robert-Tobias/dp/0806625805
              . It's not too costly, and even if you were looking for something
              else, I recommend it to the readers of this list.

              In Christ,
              Benjamin Harju

              On 1/16/10, DAVID TINKER <davidtinker@...> wrote:
              >
              > A few years ago I saw a copy of book published, I think, by American
              > Lutheran Publicity Bureau (ALPB, Lutheran Forum) about Lutheranism and
              > Eastern Orthodoxy.  When I looked on the ALPB web site recently I could not
              > find anything about it.  I've tried to see if Amazon.com used books might
              > have it, but to no avail.  I asked some colleagues about this, but nobody
              > remembered it. Maybe some of you all might know of this book, how to find
              > it, if it is worth a read, etc.  Regrettably, I do not have a title to share
              > with you.
              >
              > This book, although I didn't get to read it, was a major spark in my
              > pondering regarding Eastern Orthodoxy.  Another was when, a few years ago,
              > the men's group at our church hosted the local OCA priest who gave a
              > presentation about the Orthodox Church.
              >
              > Thanks for you warm welcome and your help in my quest.
              >
              > - David Tinker
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
            • David Tinker
              It might be the book, but the cover at Amazon looks different. I think it had an icon on the cover. I will look into it more. It could be helpful even if it
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 17, 2010
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                It might be the book, but the cover at Amazon looks different. I think it had an icon on the cover. I will look into it more. It could be helpful even if it is a different book.

                -David Tinker

                On Jan 17, 2010, at 9:14 PM, Benjamin Harju <benjamin.harju@...> wrote:

                David,

                Perhaps you are describing "Salvation in Christ: a Lutheran-Orthodox
                Dialogue." It's not from ALBP, but it does treat on the area of
                doctrinal dialogue. I read this a few years ago, and it was likewise
                helpful to me. One of the contributors was also a presenter at the
                Colloquium for Lutherans held a couple years back.

                If this is what you are trying to find, Amazon lists it at
                http://www.amazon.com/Salvation-Christ-Lutheran-Orthodox-Robert-Tobias/dp/0806625805
                . It's not too costly, and even if you were looking for something
                else, I recommend it to the readers of this list.

                In Christ,
                Benjamin Harju

                On 1/16/10, DAVID TINKER <davidtinker@...> wrote:
                >
                > A few years ago I saw a copy of book published, I think, by American
                > Lutheran Publicity Bureau (ALPB, Lutheran Forum) about Lutheranism and
                > Eastern Orthodoxy. When I looked on the ALPB web site recently I could not
                > find anything about it. I've tried to see if Amazon.com used books might
                > have it, but to no avail. I asked some colleagues about this, but nobody
                > remembered it. Maybe some of you all might know of this book, how to find
                > it, if it is worth a read, etc. Regrettably, I do not have a title to share
                > with you.
                >
                > This book, although I didn't get to read it, was a major spark in my
                > pondering regarding Eastern Orthodoxy. Another was when, a few years ago,
                > the men's group at our church hosted the local OCA priest who gave a
                > presentation about the Orthodox Church.
                >
                > Thanks for you warm welcome and your help in my quest.
                >
                > - David Tinker
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • dkwiech
                I am in the middle of reading this book, which I did get from Amazon s used sellers list. It s definitely a good read, and faithfully and honestly addresses
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 18, 2010
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                  I am in the middle of reading this book, which I did get from Amazon's used sellers list. It's definitely a good read, and faithfully and honestly addresses salvation as taught by the confessional Lutherans and also by the Orthodox Church. There's no attempt to blur lines but it does address the commonalities. The book is laid out as a series of theological papers by different authors. Unfortunately the book is old and not well glued and the pages are literally falling out of it now. I think it was sitting on a shelf somewhere for the last 20 years. Hopefully I'll get to the end of it before it disintegrates into dust. :o)

                  David

                  --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, David Tinker <davidtinker@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > It might be the book, but the cover at Amazon looks different. I think it had an icon on the cover. I will look into it more. It could be helpful even if it is a different book.
                  >
                  > -David Tinker
                  >
                  > On Jan 17, 2010, at 9:14 PM, Benjamin Harju <benjamin.harju@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > David,
                  >
                  > Perhaps you are describing "Salvation in Christ: a Lutheran-Orthodox
                  > Dialogue." It's not from ALBP, but it does treat on the area of
                  > doctrinal dialogue. I read this a few years ago, and it was likewise
                  > helpful to me. One of the contributors was also a presenter at the
                  > Colloquium for Lutherans held a couple years back.
                  >
                  > If this is what you are trying to find, Amazon lists it at
                  > http://www.amazon.com/Salvation-Christ-Lutheran-Orthodox-Robert-Tobias/dp/0806625805
                  > . It's not too costly, and even if you were looking for something
                  > else, I recommend it to the readers of this list.
                  >
                  > In Christ,
                  > Benjamin Harju
                  >
                  > On 1/16/10, DAVID TINKER <davidtinker@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > A few years ago I saw a copy of book published, I think, by American
                  > > Lutheran Publicity Bureau (ALPB, Lutheran Forum) about Lutheranism and
                  > > Eastern Orthodoxy. When I looked on the ALPB web site recently I could not
                  > > find anything about it. I've tried to see if Amazon.com used books might
                  > > have it, but to no avail. I asked some colleagues about this, but nobody
                  > > remembered it. Maybe some of you all might know of this book, how to find
                  > > it, if it is worth a read, etc. Regrettably, I do not have a title to share
                  > > with you.
                  > >
                  > > This book, although I didn't get to read it, was a major spark in my
                  > > pondering regarding Eastern Orthodoxy. Another was when, a few years ago,
                  > > the men's group at our church hosted the local OCA priest who gave a
                  > > presentation about the Orthodox Church.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for you warm welcome and your help in my quest.
                  > >
                  > > - David Tinker
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Christopher Orr
                  It s also a common back at any major library, public or academic. I remember reading parts of it at the NY Public Library many moons ago. I had also found it
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 18, 2010
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                    It's also a common back at any major library, public or academic. I
                    remember reading parts of it at the NY Public Library many moons ago. I had
                    also found it at the UCLA library.

                    Christopher



                    On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 11:17 AM, dkwiech <reddogzrule@...> wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > I am in the middle of reading this book, which I did get from Amazon's used
                    > sellers list. It's definitely a good read, and faithfully and honestly
                    > addresses salvation as taught by the confessional Lutherans and also by the
                    > Orthodox Church. There's no attempt to blur lines but it does address the
                    > commonalities. The book is laid out as a series of theological papers by
                    > different authors. Unfortunately the book is old and not well glued and the
                    > pages are literally falling out of it now. I think it was sitting on a shelf
                    > somewhere for the last 20 years. Hopefully I'll get to the end of it before
                    > it disintegrates into dust. :o)
                    >
                    > David
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > David Tinker <davidtinker@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > It might be the book, but the cover at Amazon looks different. I think it
                    > had an icon on the cover. I will look into it more. It could be helpful even
                    > if it is a different book.
                    > >
                    > > -David Tinker
                    > >
                    > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 9:14 PM, Benjamin Harju <benjamin.harju@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > David,
                    > >
                    > > Perhaps you are describing "Salvation in Christ: a Lutheran-Orthodox
                    > > Dialogue." It's not from ALBP, but it does treat on the area of
                    > > doctrinal dialogue. I read this a few years ago, and it was likewise
                    > > helpful to me. One of the contributors was also a presenter at the
                    > > Colloquium for Lutherans held a couple years back.
                    > >
                    > > If this is what you are trying to find, Amazon lists it at
                    > >
                    > http://www.amazon.com/Salvation-Christ-Lutheran-Orthodox-Robert-Tobias/dp/0806625805
                    > > . It's not too costly, and even if you were looking for something
                    > > else, I recommend it to the readers of this list.
                    > >
                    > > In Christ,
                    > > Benjamin Harju
                    > >
                    > > On 1/16/10, DAVID TINKER <davidtinker@...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > A few years ago I saw a copy of book published, I think, by American
                    > > > Lutheran Publicity Bureau (ALPB, Lutheran Forum) about Lutheranism and
                    > > > Eastern Orthodoxy. When I looked on the ALPB web site recently I could
                    > not
                    > > > find anything about it. I've tried to see if Amazon.com used books
                    > might
                    > > > have it, but to no avail. I asked some colleagues about this, but
                    > nobody
                    > > > remembered it. Maybe some of you all might know of this book, how to
                    > find
                    > > > it, if it is worth a read, etc. Regrettably, I do not have a title to
                    > share
                    > > > with you.
                    > > >
                    > > > This book, although I didn't get to read it, was a major spark in my
                    > > > pondering regarding Eastern Orthodoxy. Another was when, a few years
                    > ago,
                    > > > the men's group at our church hosted the local OCA priest who gave a
                    > > > presentation about the Orthodox Church.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks for you warm welcome and your help in my quest.
                    > > >
                    > > > - David Tinker
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • jayedenne
                    The ALPB book is called Heaven on Earth: A Lutheran-Orthodox Odyssey by Robert Tobias. It went out of print about a year ago. I called the ALPB and bought
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 18, 2010
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                      The ALPB book is called "Heaven on Earth: A Lutheran-Orthodox Odyssey" by Robert Tobias. It went out of print about a year ago. I called the ALPB and bought the last of their stock because I used it to start a discussion group here in Sioux City involving some of the local ELCA clergy, an Orthodox priest and layman (who is also a former Presbyterian pastor).

                      It served as a pretty good introduction and stimulated some interesting discussion.
                    • David Tinker
                      Thank you for the update on the book status. I found a good condition used copy on Amazon for a dollar plus shipping. -David Tinker Ohio On Jan 18, 2010, at
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 18, 2010
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                        Thank you for the update on the book status. I found a good condition used copy on Amazon for a dollar plus shipping.

                        -David Tinker
                        Ohio

                        On Jan 18, 2010, at 2:31 PM, "jayedenne" <jedenne@...> wrote:


                        The ALPB book is called "Heaven on Earth: A Lutheran-Orthodox Odyssey" by Robert Tobias. It went out of print about a year ago. I called the ALPB and bought the last of their stock because I used it to start a discussion group here in Sioux City involving some of the local ELCA clergy, an Orthodox priest and layman (who is also a former Presbyterian pastor).

                        It served as a pretty good introduction and stimulated some interesting discussion.




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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