Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Newly christmated

Expand Messages
  • DAVID TINKER
    So, I m new to this list and to my curiosity as a Lutheran Looking East. Is it standard practice for Orthodox congregations to re-baptize baptized Christians -
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 16, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      So, I'm new to this list and to my curiosity as a Lutheran Looking East.

      Is it standard practice for Orthodox congregations to re-baptize baptized Christians - who come from other Christian traditions - such as myself?  It seems so strongly contrary to the Christian faith to re-baptize.  Maybe someone on this list could explain this to me or point me to resources which might explain the process of becoming an Orthodox Christian, including issues related to possible re-baptizing of otherwise faithful, baptized Christians.

      -- David Tinker
      Ohio

      --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Kimberly Sparling <belleartmom@...> wrote:

      From: Kimberly Sparling <belleartmom@...>
      Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Newly christmated
      To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 2:30 PM

      May God grant you many years, David!
      My dh and I became catechumens on January 1, 2010.  Our children will be
      baptized sometime before Pascha this year so they may begin receiving the
      Eucharist.  They are also taking classes to prepare them for their first
      confession. They were baptized in the Methodist church during the brief
      period we attended there when they were toddlers; my dh and I were baptized
      in the Methodist church as children, too.  Our priest has requested that we
      all be baptized in the Orthodox church before chrismation.
      God Bless,
      Kim

      On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 11:41 AM, luvlinguae <reddogzrule@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > I don't come on here very much anymore, since I'd been immersing myself in
      > the Orthodox Church and its life over the past year. Wanted to just say that
      > I am now yet another former LCMS Lutheran who has joined the Orthodox
      > Church, my chrismation having been just last Sunday January 10.
      >
      > I humbly ask for your prayers for the Lord's continued guidance as I start
      > off on this journey as a "green Orthodox".
      >
      > Blessings,
      >
      > David
      >

      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • randall hay
      I wouldn t say rebaptism is standard practice. I myself was only chrismated....which puts me in the distinguished company of Fr Seraphim Rose and St. Alexis
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 16, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        I wouldn't say rebaptism is standard practice. I myself was only chrismated....which puts me in the distinguished company of Fr Seraphim Rose and St. Alexis of Wilkes-Barre.

        It's ultimately up to the bishop whether or not to re-baptize.

        However, more and more bishops are leaning toward re-baptism, for the simple reason that the mainline denominations---and many nondenonimations---are losing contact with the basic dogmas of Christ and the Trinity.

        Fifty years ago an Episcopal priest or Presbyterian pastor or neighborhood minister would have believed and been able to explain that Christ was fully God and fully man; and that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one God.

        Now the Episcopalian priest may be a homosexual-activist Unitarian, and the Presbyterian might reject God the Father as a fallacy of an oppressive patriarchal society. The nondenominational guy might not have a clue if you asked him about one God in three Persons.

        Since bishops are accountable to God for the baptism of a parishioner, they are less inclined toward christmation.

        In Christ,

        R.




        ________________________________
        From: DAVID TINKER <davidtinker@...>
        To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 3:13:48 PM
        Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Newly christmated


        So, I'm new to this list and to my curiosity as a Lutheran Looking East.

        Is it standard practice for Orthodox congregations to re-baptize baptized Christians - who come from other Christian traditions - such as myself? It seems so strongly contrary to the Christian faith to re-baptize. Maybe someone on this list could explain this to me or point me to resources which might explain the process of becoming an Orthodox Christian, including issues related to possible re-baptizing of otherwise faithful, baptized Christians.

        -- David Tinker
        Ohio

        --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Kimberly Sparling <belleartmom@ gmail.com> wrote:

        From: Kimberly Sparling <belleartmom@ gmail.com>
        Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEa st] Newly christmated
        To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
        Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 2:30 PM

        May God grant you many years, David!
        My dh and I became catechumens on January 1, 2010. Our children will be
        baptized sometime before Pascha this year so they may begin receiving the
        Eucharist. They are also taking classes to prepare them for their first
        confession. They were baptized in the Methodist church during the brief
        period we attended there when they were toddlers; my dh and I were baptized
        in the Methodist church as children, too. Our priest has requested that we
        all be baptized in the Orthodox church before chrismation.
        God Bless,
        Kim

        On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 11:41 AM, luvlinguae <reddogzrule@ gmail.com> wrote:

        >
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > I don't come on here very much anymore, since I'd been immersing myself in
        > the Orthodox Church and its life over the past year. Wanted to just say that
        > I am now yet another former LCMS Lutheran who has joined the Orthodox
        > Church, my chrismation having been just last Sunday January 10.
        >
        > I humbly ask for your prayers for the Lord's continued guidance as I start
        > off on this journey as a "green Orthodox".
        >
        > Blessings,
        >
        > David
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------ --------- --------- ------

        Yahoo! Groups Links

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Christopher Orr
        Here are a few resources discussing the issue of the reception of converts from non-Orthodox, but Christian churches: - On Non-Orthodox Baptism I
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 16, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Here are a few resources discussing the issue of the reception of converts
          from non-Orthodox, but Christian churches:


          - On Non-Orthodox Baptism I
          (Pagodin)<http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/reception_church_a_pagodin.htm>
          - On Non-Orthodox Baptism II
          (Metallinos)<http://www.oodegr.com/english/biblia/baptisma1/perieh.htm#periex>
          - On Non-Orthodox Baptism III
          (Rodzianko)<http://www.holy-trinity.org/liturgics/rodzianko-acceptance.html>
          - On Non-Orthodox Baptism IV
          (Erickson)<http://jbburnett.com/resources/erickson_reception-svtq97.pdf>


          For the record, I was received into the Orthodox Church by baptism; my
          sister was received by chrismation.

          A question to ponder when thinking about this issue is how various churches
          view the baptism of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses who consider themselves
          to be fully Christian, but who are considered anything but by most
          traditional Protestants (and Catholics). The question comes down to what is
          the minimum of form required to be recognized as the Church's Baptism,
          rather than something vaguely resembling the full rite but called baptism.
          Some Orthodox argue that water and the trinitarian formula is 'enough',
          others argue that triple immersion and the trinitarian formula are enough,
          others argue that triple immersion and the trinitarian formula done within
          the Orthodox Church are enough. Within this context, it isn't about
          re-baptism, it is about whether baptism ever took place in the first place.

          Christopher


          On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 3:13 PM, DAVID TINKER <davidtinker@...>wrote:

          >
          >
          > So, I'm new to this list and to my curiosity as a Lutheran Looking East.
          >
          > Is it standard practice for Orthodox congregations to re-baptize baptized
          > Christians - who come from other Christian traditions - such as myself? It
          > seems so strongly contrary to the Christian faith to re-baptize. Maybe
          > someone on this list could explain this to me or point me to resources which
          > might explain the process of becoming an Orthodox Christian, including
          > issues related to possible re-baptizing of otherwise faithful, baptized
          > Christians.
          >
          > -- David Tinker
          > Ohio
          >
          > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Kimberly Sparling <belleartmom@...<belleartmom%40gmail.com>>
          > wrote:
          >
          > From: Kimberly Sparling <belleartmom@... <belleartmom%40gmail.com>>
          > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Newly christmated
          > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 2:30 PM
          >
          >
          > May God grant you many years, David!
          > My dh and I became catechumens on January 1, 2010. Our children will be
          > baptized sometime before Pascha this year so they may begin receiving the
          > Eucharist. They are also taking classes to prepare them for their first
          > confession. They were baptized in the Methodist church during the brief
          > period we attended there when they were toddlers; my dh and I were baptized
          > in the Methodist church as children, too. Our priest has requested that we
          > all be baptized in the Orthodox church before chrismation.
          > God Bless,
          > Kim
          >
          > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 11:41 AM, luvlinguae <reddogzrule@...<reddogzrule%40gmail.com>>
          > wrote:
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi,
          > >
          > > I don't come on here very much anymore, since I'd been immersing myself
          > in
          > > the Orthodox Church and its life over the past year. Wanted to just say
          > that
          > > I am now yet another former LCMS Lutheran who has joined the Orthodox
          > > Church, my chrismation having been just last Sunday January 10.
          > >
          > > I humbly ask for your prayers for the Lord's continued guidance as I
          > start
          > > off on this journey as a "green Orthodox".
          > >
          > > Blessings,
          > >
          > > David
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Christopher Orr
          God grant you all many years! Don t spill the grace that s been given you - the spiritual life is like carrying a very full bowl. Christopher ... [Non-text
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 16, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            God grant you all many years! Don't spill the grace that's been given you -
            the spiritual life is like carrying a very full bowl.

            Christopher



            On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 12:41 PM, luvlinguae <reddogzrule@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > I don't come on here very much anymore, since I'd been immersing myself in
            > the Orthodox Church and its life over the past year. Wanted to just say that
            > I am now yet another former LCMS Lutheran who has joined the Orthodox
            > Church, my chrismation having been just last Sunday January 10.
            >
            > I humbly ask for your prayers for the Lord's continued guidance as I start
            > off on this journey as a "green Orthodox".
            >
            > Blessings,
            >
            > David
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • DAVID TINKER
            A few years ago I saw a copy of book published, I think, by American Lutheran Publicity Bureau (ALPB, Lutheran Forum) about Lutheranism and Eastern
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 16, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              A few years ago I saw a copy of book published, I think, by American Lutheran Publicity Bureau (ALPB, Lutheran Forum) about Lutheranism and Eastern Orthodoxy.  When I looked on the ALPB web site recently I could not find anything about it.  I've tried to see if Amazon.com used books might have it, but to no avail.  I asked some colleagues about this, but nobody remembered it. Maybe some of you all might know of this book, how to find it, if it is worth a read, etc.  Regrettably, I do not have a title to share with you.

              This book, although I didn't get to read it, was a major spark in my pondering regarding Eastern Orthodoxy.  Another was when, a few years ago, the men's group at our church hosted the local OCA priest who gave a presentation about the Orthodox Church. 

              Thanks for you warm welcome and your help in my quest.

              - David Tinker


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • David Tinker
              Thank you. What I have read so far has been helpful. David Tinker
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 16, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Thank you. What I have read so far has been helpful.

                David Tinker
              • Benjamin Harju
                David, Perhaps you are describing Salvation in Christ: a Lutheran-Orthodox Dialogue. It s not from ALBP, but it does treat on the area of doctrinal
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 17, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  David,

                  Perhaps you are describing "Salvation in Christ: a Lutheran-Orthodox
                  Dialogue." It's not from ALBP, but it does treat on the area of
                  doctrinal dialogue. I read this a few years ago, and it was likewise
                  helpful to me. One of the contributors was also a presenter at the
                  Colloquium for Lutherans held a couple years back.

                  If this is what you are trying to find, Amazon lists it at
                  http://www.amazon.com/Salvation-Christ-Lutheran-Orthodox-Robert-Tobias/dp/0806625805
                  . It's not too costly, and even if you were looking for something
                  else, I recommend it to the readers of this list.

                  In Christ,
                  Benjamin Harju

                  On 1/16/10, DAVID TINKER <davidtinker@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > A few years ago I saw a copy of book published, I think, by American
                  > Lutheran Publicity Bureau (ALPB, Lutheran Forum) about Lutheranism and
                  > Eastern Orthodoxy.  When I looked on the ALPB web site recently I could not
                  > find anything about it.  I've tried to see if Amazon.com used books might
                  > have it, but to no avail.  I asked some colleagues about this, but nobody
                  > remembered it. Maybe some of you all might know of this book, how to find
                  > it, if it is worth a read, etc.  Regrettably, I do not have a title to share
                  > with you.
                  >
                  > This book, although I didn't get to read it, was a major spark in my
                  > pondering regarding Eastern Orthodoxy.  Another was when, a few years ago,
                  > the men's group at our church hosted the local OCA priest who gave a
                  > presentation about the Orthodox Church.
                  >
                  > Thanks for you warm welcome and your help in my quest.
                  >
                  > - David Tinker
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                • David Tinker
                  It might be the book, but the cover at Amazon looks different. I think it had an icon on the cover. I will look into it more. It could be helpful even if it
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 17, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    It might be the book, but the cover at Amazon looks different. I think it had an icon on the cover. I will look into it more. It could be helpful even if it is a different book.

                    -David Tinker

                    On Jan 17, 2010, at 9:14 PM, Benjamin Harju <benjamin.harju@...> wrote:

                    David,

                    Perhaps you are describing "Salvation in Christ: a Lutheran-Orthodox
                    Dialogue." It's not from ALBP, but it does treat on the area of
                    doctrinal dialogue. I read this a few years ago, and it was likewise
                    helpful to me. One of the contributors was also a presenter at the
                    Colloquium for Lutherans held a couple years back.

                    If this is what you are trying to find, Amazon lists it at
                    http://www.amazon.com/Salvation-Christ-Lutheran-Orthodox-Robert-Tobias/dp/0806625805
                    . It's not too costly, and even if you were looking for something
                    else, I recommend it to the readers of this list.

                    In Christ,
                    Benjamin Harju

                    On 1/16/10, DAVID TINKER <davidtinker@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > A few years ago I saw a copy of book published, I think, by American
                    > Lutheran Publicity Bureau (ALPB, Lutheran Forum) about Lutheranism and
                    > Eastern Orthodoxy. When I looked on the ALPB web site recently I could not
                    > find anything about it. I've tried to see if Amazon.com used books might
                    > have it, but to no avail. I asked some colleagues about this, but nobody
                    > remembered it. Maybe some of you all might know of this book, how to find
                    > it, if it is worth a read, etc. Regrettably, I do not have a title to share
                    > with you.
                    >
                    > This book, although I didn't get to read it, was a major spark in my
                    > pondering regarding Eastern Orthodoxy. Another was when, a few years ago,
                    > the men's group at our church hosted the local OCA priest who gave a
                    > presentation about the Orthodox Church.
                    >
                    > Thanks for you warm welcome and your help in my quest.
                    >
                    > - David Tinker
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • dkwiech
                    I am in the middle of reading this book, which I did get from Amazon s used sellers list. It s definitely a good read, and faithfully and honestly addresses
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 18, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I am in the middle of reading this book, which I did get from Amazon's used sellers list. It's definitely a good read, and faithfully and honestly addresses salvation as taught by the confessional Lutherans and also by the Orthodox Church. There's no attempt to blur lines but it does address the commonalities. The book is laid out as a series of theological papers by different authors. Unfortunately the book is old and not well glued and the pages are literally falling out of it now. I think it was sitting on a shelf somewhere for the last 20 years. Hopefully I'll get to the end of it before it disintegrates into dust. :o)

                      David

                      --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, David Tinker <davidtinker@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > It might be the book, but the cover at Amazon looks different. I think it had an icon on the cover. I will look into it more. It could be helpful even if it is a different book.
                      >
                      > -David Tinker
                      >
                      > On Jan 17, 2010, at 9:14 PM, Benjamin Harju <benjamin.harju@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > David,
                      >
                      > Perhaps you are describing "Salvation in Christ: a Lutheran-Orthodox
                      > Dialogue." It's not from ALBP, but it does treat on the area of
                      > doctrinal dialogue. I read this a few years ago, and it was likewise
                      > helpful to me. One of the contributors was also a presenter at the
                      > Colloquium for Lutherans held a couple years back.
                      >
                      > If this is what you are trying to find, Amazon lists it at
                      > http://www.amazon.com/Salvation-Christ-Lutheran-Orthodox-Robert-Tobias/dp/0806625805
                      > . It's not too costly, and even if you were looking for something
                      > else, I recommend it to the readers of this list.
                      >
                      > In Christ,
                      > Benjamin Harju
                      >
                      > On 1/16/10, DAVID TINKER <davidtinker@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > A few years ago I saw a copy of book published, I think, by American
                      > > Lutheran Publicity Bureau (ALPB, Lutheran Forum) about Lutheranism and
                      > > Eastern Orthodoxy. When I looked on the ALPB web site recently I could not
                      > > find anything about it. I've tried to see if Amazon.com used books might
                      > > have it, but to no avail. I asked some colleagues about this, but nobody
                      > > remembered it. Maybe some of you all might know of this book, how to find
                      > > it, if it is worth a read, etc. Regrettably, I do not have a title to share
                      > > with you.
                      > >
                      > > This book, although I didn't get to read it, was a major spark in my
                      > > pondering regarding Eastern Orthodoxy. Another was when, a few years ago,
                      > > the men's group at our church hosted the local OCA priest who gave a
                      > > presentation about the Orthodox Church.
                      > >
                      > > Thanks for you warm welcome and your help in my quest.
                      > >
                      > > - David Tinker
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Christopher Orr
                      It s also a common back at any major library, public or academic. I remember reading parts of it at the NY Public Library many moons ago. I had also found it
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 18, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        It's also a common back at any major library, public or academic. I
                        remember reading parts of it at the NY Public Library many moons ago. I had
                        also found it at the UCLA library.

                        Christopher



                        On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 11:17 AM, dkwiech <reddogzrule@...> wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > I am in the middle of reading this book, which I did get from Amazon's used
                        > sellers list. It's definitely a good read, and faithfully and honestly
                        > addresses salvation as taught by the confessional Lutherans and also by the
                        > Orthodox Church. There's no attempt to blur lines but it does address the
                        > commonalities. The book is laid out as a series of theological papers by
                        > different authors. Unfortunately the book is old and not well glued and the
                        > pages are literally falling out of it now. I think it was sitting on a shelf
                        > somewhere for the last 20 years. Hopefully I'll get to the end of it before
                        > it disintegrates into dust. :o)
                        >
                        > David
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > David Tinker <davidtinker@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > It might be the book, but the cover at Amazon looks different. I think it
                        > had an icon on the cover. I will look into it more. It could be helpful even
                        > if it is a different book.
                        > >
                        > > -David Tinker
                        > >
                        > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 9:14 PM, Benjamin Harju <benjamin.harju@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > David,
                        > >
                        > > Perhaps you are describing "Salvation in Christ: a Lutheran-Orthodox
                        > > Dialogue." It's not from ALBP, but it does treat on the area of
                        > > doctrinal dialogue. I read this a few years ago, and it was likewise
                        > > helpful to me. One of the contributors was also a presenter at the
                        > > Colloquium for Lutherans held a couple years back.
                        > >
                        > > If this is what you are trying to find, Amazon lists it at
                        > >
                        > http://www.amazon.com/Salvation-Christ-Lutheran-Orthodox-Robert-Tobias/dp/0806625805
                        > > . It's not too costly, and even if you were looking for something
                        > > else, I recommend it to the readers of this list.
                        > >
                        > > In Christ,
                        > > Benjamin Harju
                        > >
                        > > On 1/16/10, DAVID TINKER <davidtinker@...> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > A few years ago I saw a copy of book published, I think, by American
                        > > > Lutheran Publicity Bureau (ALPB, Lutheran Forum) about Lutheranism and
                        > > > Eastern Orthodoxy. When I looked on the ALPB web site recently I could
                        > not
                        > > > find anything about it. I've tried to see if Amazon.com used books
                        > might
                        > > > have it, but to no avail. I asked some colleagues about this, but
                        > nobody
                        > > > remembered it. Maybe some of you all might know of this book, how to
                        > find
                        > > > it, if it is worth a read, etc. Regrettably, I do not have a title to
                        > share
                        > > > with you.
                        > > >
                        > > > This book, although I didn't get to read it, was a major spark in my
                        > > > pondering regarding Eastern Orthodoxy. Another was when, a few years
                        > ago,
                        > > > the men's group at our church hosted the local OCA priest who gave a
                        > > > presentation about the Orthodox Church.
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks for you warm welcome and your help in my quest.
                        > > >
                        > > > - David Tinker
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • jayedenne
                        The ALPB book is called Heaven on Earth: A Lutheran-Orthodox Odyssey by Robert Tobias. It went out of print about a year ago. I called the ALPB and bought
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 18, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          The ALPB book is called "Heaven on Earth: A Lutheran-Orthodox Odyssey" by Robert Tobias. It went out of print about a year ago. I called the ALPB and bought the last of their stock because I used it to start a discussion group here in Sioux City involving some of the local ELCA clergy, an Orthodox priest and layman (who is also a former Presbyterian pastor).

                          It served as a pretty good introduction and stimulated some interesting discussion.
                        • David Tinker
                          Thank you for the update on the book status. I found a good condition used copy on Amazon for a dollar plus shipping. -David Tinker Ohio On Jan 18, 2010, at
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jan 18, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thank you for the update on the book status. I found a good condition used copy on Amazon for a dollar plus shipping.

                            -David Tinker
                            Ohio

                            On Jan 18, 2010, at 2:31 PM, "jayedenne" <jedenne@...> wrote:


                            The ALPB book is called "Heaven on Earth: A Lutheran-Orthodox Odyssey" by Robert Tobias. It went out of print about a year ago. I called the ALPB and bought the last of their stock because I used it to start a discussion group here in Sioux City involving some of the local ELCA clergy, an Orthodox priest and layman (who is also a former Presbyterian pastor).

                            It served as a pretty good introduction and stimulated some interesting discussion.




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.