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Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Question concerning Mannermaa

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  • DonPedroGordo
        This formerly Lutheran pastor does not recall hearing of such but never took a course in review of European Lutheranism after the redormation.  Such
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 16, 2010
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          This formerly Lutheran pastor does not recall hearing of such but never took a course in review of European Lutheranism after the redormation.  Such would be a useful course for improving breadth of knowledge. Thanks for the tip. Deacon Fr Finbar

      --- On Sat, 1/16/10, luvlinguae <reddogzrule@...> wrote:


      From: luvlinguae <reddogzrule@...>
      Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Question concerning Mannermaa
      To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 12:48 PM


       



      I have only recently stumbled across this name and school of Lutheran thought, and was curious as to how well studied and received he is in Lutheran theological circles. His interpretations of Luther's teaching seem to draw some very interesting parallels with Orthodoxy's teaching of theosis, which normally is unheard of in the West. Given the historic proximity of Finland and Russia and the blurring of borders and cultures, such as in Karelia, I wonder if the Finnish perspective is hitting on something that Luther emphasized and modern Lutheranism has lost, or if this is simply overreaching in the name of ecumenism. I know this is not a Lutheran forum, but the connection with Orthodox theosis is what is causing me to raise the point. Below is the Wikipedia blurb on Mannermaa:

      "Tuomo Mannermaa (b. 29 September 1937 Oulu, Finland) is professor emeritus of ecumenical theology at University of Helsinki. He is known especially for his theological criticism of the Leuenberg Concord and his research on the relationship between justification and theosis in the theology of Martin Luther. His initiating and furthering this research caused him to be regarded as the father of "The New Finnish Interpretation of Luther" or "the Finnish School of Tuomo Mannermaa"."











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    • randall hay
      I seem to recall his name from an ecumenical Orthodox-Lutheran journal that was started by those involved with the Finnish overlap. (Not the Finnish
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 16, 2010
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        I seem to recall his name from an "ecumenical" Orthodox-Lutheran journal that was started by those involved with the Finnish overlap. (Not the Finnish overLapp, ha ha.)

        Back in the mid-90's, before we were Orthodox, I looked through a bunch of them, and even assembled a "Theosis-Pak" to give other Lutherans. There was a lot of stuff there on the existence of theosis in Lutheran theology. Unfortunatley my aging brain can't remember the name of that journal....but I'll let you know if it comes to mind.

        I remember too that the CTS library in Ft Wayne had a book on the shelf called "Luther und Palamas" (or "Palamas und Luther," I can't remember which)....but since my German is next to non-existent, I never read it.

        In Christ,

        Subdeacon Randall








        ________________________________
        From: luvlinguae <reddogzrule@...>
        To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 12:48:17 PM
        Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Question concerning Mannermaa


        I have only recently stumbled across this name and school of Lutheran thought, and was curious as to how well studied and received he is in Lutheran theological circles. His interpretations of Luther's teaching seem to draw some very interesting parallels with Orthodoxy's teaching of theosis, which normally is unheard of in the West. Given the historic proximity of Finland and Russia and the blurring of borders and cultures, such as in Karelia, I wonder if the Finnish perspective is hitting on something that Luther emphasized and modern Lutheranism has lost, or if this is simply overreaching in the name of ecumenism. I know this is not a Lutheran forum, but the connection with Orthodox theosis is what is causing me to raise the point. Below is the Wikipedia blurb on Mannermaa:

        "Tuomo Mannermaa (b. 29 September 1937 Oulu, Finland) is professor emeritus of ecumenical theology at University of Helsinki. He is known especially for his theological criticism of the Leuenberg Concord and his research on the relationship between justification and theosis in the theology of Martin Luther. His initiating and furthering this research caused him to be regarded as the father of "The New Finnish Interpretation of Luther" or "the Finnish School of Tuomo Mannermaa"."




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Rosemarie Lieffring
        I read a book on the subject... Union with Christ: The New Finnish Interpretation of Luther http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0802844421/ref=cap_pdp_dp_0
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 16, 2010
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          I read a book on the subject..."Union with Christ: The New Finnish
          Interpretation of Luther"

          http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0802844421/ref=cap_pdp_dp_0

          Quite honestly I think it is a bit of a stretch but I certainly appreciate
          the desire to try to bring the concept of Theosis into Lutheranism. When I
          was a Lutheran, I tried too!

          Welcome, David! Chronia Polla! (as the Greeks say).-----R

          ________________________________
          >
          > From: luvlinguae <reddogzrule@... <reddogzrule%40gmail.com>>
          > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 12:48:17 PM
          >
          > Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Question concerning Mannermaa
          >
          > I have only recently stumbled across this name and school of Lutheran
          > thought, and was curious as to how well studied and received he is in
          > Lutheran theological circles. His interpretations of Luther's teaching seem
          > to draw some very interesting parallels with Orthodoxy's teaching of
          > theosis, which normally is unheard of in the West. Given the historic
          > proximity of Finland and Russia and the blurring of borders and cultures,
          > such as in Karelia, I wonder if the Finnish perspective is hitting on
          > something that Luther emphasized and modern Lutheranism has lost, or if this
          > is simply overreaching in the name of ecumenism. I know this is not a
          > Lutheran forum, but the connection with Orthodox theosis is what is causing
          > me to raise the point. Below is the Wikipedia blurb on Mannermaa:
          >
          > "Tuomo Mannermaa (b. 29 September 1937 Oulu, Finland) is professor emeritus
          > of ecumenical theology at University of Helsinki. He is known especially for
          > his theological criticism of the Leuenberg Concord and his research on the
          > relationship between justification and theosis in the theology of Martin
          > Luther. His initiating and furthering this research caused him to be
          > regarded as the father of "The New Finnish Interpretation of Luther" or "the
          > Finnish School of Tuomo Mannermaa"."
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • randall hay
          I found importing theosis didn t get me anywhere, either...no matter how many Theosis-Paks I handed out. I don t think it really fits into a theology and
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 16, 2010
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            I found importing theosis didn't get me anywhere, either...no matter how many Theosis-Paks I handed out. I don't think it really fits into a theology and piety built on law/gospel.

            R.




            ________________________________
            From: Rosemarie Lieffring <rose.lieffring@...>
            To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 4:21:49 PM
            Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Question concerning Mannermaa

            I read a book on the subject..."Union with Christ: The New Finnish
            Interpretation of Luther"

            http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0802844421/ref=cap_pdp_dp_0

            Quite honestly I think it is a bit of a stretch but I certainly appreciate
            the desire to try to bring the concept of Theosis into Lutheranism. When I
            was a Lutheran, I tried too!

            Welcome, David! Chronia Polla! (as the Greeks say).-----R

            ________________________________
            >
            > From: luvlinguae <reddogzrule@... <reddogzrule%40gmail.com>>
            > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 12:48:17 PM
            >
            > Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Question concerning Mannermaa
            >
            > I have only recently stumbled across this name and school of Lutheran
            > thought, and was curious as to how well studied and received he is in
            > Lutheran theological circles. His interpretations of Luther's teaching seem
            > to draw some very interesting parallels with Orthodoxy's teaching of
            > theosis, which normally is unheard of in the West. Given the historic
            > proximity of Finland and Russia and the blurring of borders and cultures,
            > such as in Karelia, I wonder if the Finnish perspective is hitting on
            > something that Luther emphasized and modern Lutheranism has lost, or if this
            > is simply overreaching in the name of ecumenism. I know this is not a
            > Lutheran forum, but the connection with Orthodox theosis is what is causing
            > me to raise the point. Below is the Wikipedia blurb on Mannermaa:
            >
            > "Tuomo Mannermaa (b. 29 September 1937 Oulu, Finland) is professor emeritus
            > of ecumenical theology at University of Helsinki. He is known especially for
            > his theological criticism of the Leuenberg Concord and his research on the
            > relationship between justification and theosis in the theology of Martin
            > Luther. His initiating and furthering this research caused him to be
            > regarded as the father of "The New Finnish Interpretation of Luther" or "the
            > Finnish School of Tuomo Mannermaa"."
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Benjamin Harju
            The Finnish school of thought regarding Luther was being talked about when I left CTS 5.5 years ago. The general feeling then was that, while touching upon
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 17, 2010
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              The Finnish school of thought regarding Luther was being talked about
              when I left CTS 5.5 years ago. The general feeling then was that,
              while touching upon some rather overlooked aspects of Luther's
              un-systematized theology, the school was stretching things a bit.
              Since Luther never really had any quality exposure or dialogue with
              Holy Orthodoxy in and of itself, one can only guess at his response to
              some of the Finnish school's interpretations.

              That's always been one of the nice things about Luther, though: he's
              not a neat and clean theologian. Like St. Augustine he tends to
              overstate his point to achieve his objectives.

              In Christ,
              Benjamin Harju

              P.S.
              We're newly Chrismated, too: 19 Dec 2009
              http://paredwka.blogspot.com/2009/12/chrismated.html

              On 1/16/10, randall hay <stortford@...> wrote:
              > I found importing theosis didn't get me anywhere, either...no matter how
              > many Theosis-Paks I handed out. I don't think it really fits into a
              > theology and piety built on law/gospel.
              >
              > R.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Rosemarie Lieffring <rose.lieffring@...>
              > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 4:21:49 PM
              > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Question concerning Mannermaa
              >
              > I read a book on the subject..."Union with Christ: The New Finnish
              > Interpretation of Luther"
              >
              > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0802844421/ref=cap_pdp_dp_0
              >
              > Quite honestly I think it is a bit of a stretch but I certainly appreciate
              > the desire to try to bring the concept of Theosis into Lutheranism. When I
              > was a Lutheran, I tried too!
              >
              > Welcome, David! Chronia Polla! (as the Greeks say).-----R
              >
              > ________________________________
              >>
              >> From: luvlinguae <reddogzrule@... <reddogzrule%40gmail.com>>
              >> To:
              >> LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
              >> Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 12:48:17 PM
              >>
              >> Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Question concerning Mannermaa
              >>
              >> I have only recently stumbled across this name and school of Lutheran
              >> thought, and was curious as to how well studied and received he is in
              >> Lutheran theological circles. His interpretations of Luther's teaching
              >> seem
              >> to draw some very interesting parallels with Orthodoxy's teaching of
              >> theosis, which normally is unheard of in the West. Given the historic
              >> proximity of Finland and Russia and the blurring of borders and cultures,
              >> such as in Karelia, I wonder if the Finnish perspective is hitting on
              >> something that Luther emphasized and modern Lutheranism has lost, or if
              >> this
              >> is simply overreaching in the name of ecumenism. I know this is not a
              >> Lutheran forum, but the connection with Orthodox theosis is what is
              >> causing
              >> me to raise the point. Below is the Wikipedia blurb on Mannermaa:
              >>
              >> "Tuomo Mannermaa (b. 29 September 1937 Oulu, Finland) is professor
              >> emeritus
              >> of ecumenical theology at University of Helsinki. He is known especially
              >> for
              >> his theological criticism of the Leuenberg Concord and his research on the
              >> relationship between justification and theosis in the theology of Martin
              >> Luther. His initiating and furthering this research caused him to be
              >> regarded as the father of "The New Finnish Interpretation of Luther" or
              >> "the
              >> Finnish School of Tuomo Mannermaa"."
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
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