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Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Best Books to read for a Lutheran pastor to understand Eastern Orthodoxy

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  • Christopher Orr
    For books discussing the approach to the Bible, etc. I would suggest looking at the footnoted works cited in my The Authority of Scripture in the Orthodox
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 15, 2009
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      For books discussing the approach to the Bible, etc. I would suggest looking
      at the footnoted works cited in my "The Authority of Scripture in the
      Orthodox Church, for Lutherans". I would especially look at Frs. John Behr
      (his "Formation of Christian Theology" series), John Breck (" Scripture in
      Tradition<http://www.svspress.com/product_info.php?cPath=43_6&products_id=252&osCsid=qie28q80d75h8hbks95mopolq4>")
      and Seraphim Rose. You could probably also put Lossky in the same camp, as
      well as many works by Florovsky. I have also heard very good things about
      Louth's "Discerning the Mystery". SVS Press also has some interesting books
      on the topic by Kesich and Barrois; I'd stay away from Tarazi, personally.

      The best way to read Scripture would be through the Fathers. Theophylact of
      Ochrid's commentaries on the Gospels are very good; as is the ACCS series
      from InterVarsity. Archbishop Dmitri (Royster) also has exegetical books on
      Romans and Hebrews. Manley's Bible and the Holy Fathers for
      Orthodox<http://www.svspress.com/product_info.php?cPath=43_6&products_id=11&osCsid=qie28q80d75h8hbks95mopolq4>is
      also good, but it's expensive and the print is not always very
      friendly
      on the eyes. A very interesting way to read the Bible is through the Great
      Canon of St. Andrew of Crete: read the hymns and then check the Scriptural
      citation to see how the Saint 'read' the passage in question.

      Christopher


      On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Richard <PastorFutrell@...>wrote:

      >
      >
      > Greetings:
      >
      > I'd like to ask you all a favor. Being former Lutherans, can you provide a
      > list of books I can read to help me understand Eastern Orthodoxy, including
      > the biblical approach, language usage, theological emphases, etc?
      >
      > I know you all will say the best way is to "come and see." But please help
      > one, like you all previously were, steeped in western theological thinking
      > and speaking to apprehend things Eastern.
      >
      > From all your suggestions I'll put together a list by consensus. Who knows?
      > It may even turn out to be a permanent list on this Yahoo site for others.
      >
      > Note Bene: I've met and visited Fr Andy Moore, a convert from Lutheranism
      > as an LC-MS pastor, and find his discussion of things to be robustly
      > Lutheran in many ways (according to the Confessions, not Lutheranism as it
      > exists today in North America). In some ways, what he says put flesh and
      > bones on what the Lutheran Confessions mention in passing or assume to be
      > the Christian worldview. But I haven't asked him this question that I've put
      > forward to you all.
      >
      > I've no intention to convert (unless I'm convinced EO has a better grasp on
      > the Truth), but I want to truly understand Eastern Orthodoxy and get past
      > the caricatures.
      >
      > Thanks. And awaiting you replies. :-)
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Benjamin Harju
      I suggest Meyendorff s Byzantine Theology. It was helpful to me. In Christ, Benjamin Harju
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 15, 2009
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        I suggest Meyendorff's "Byzantine Theology." It was helpful to me.

        In Christ,
        Benjamin Harju
      • Christopher Orr
        For Bible, I would also add Behr s The *Mystery* of *Christ*: Life in Death , which is a condensed version of his Formation of Christian Theology series. I
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 15, 2009
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          For Bible, I would also add Behr's "The *Mystery* of *Christ*: Life in
          Death", which is a condensed version of his "Formation of Christian
          Theology" series.

          I personal favorite on the theology side is Pomazansky's "Orthodox Dogmatic
          Theology" - but don't expect as organized and detailed a dogmatics
          presentation as you would find in a systematic theology like Pieper or
          Mueller; it's more like the systematic theology in St. John Damascene's
          "Exposition".

          Christopher


          On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote:

          > For books discussing the approach to the Bible, etc. I would suggest
          > looking at the footnoted works cited in my "The Authority of Scripture in
          > the Orthodox Church, for Lutherans". I would especially look at Frs. John
          > Behr (his "Formation of Christian Theology" series), John Breck (" Scripture
          > in Tradition<http://www.svspress.com/product_info.php?cPath=43_6&products_id=252&osCsid=qie28q80d75h8hbks95mopolq4>")
          > and Seraphim Rose. You could probably also put Lossky in the same camp, as
          > well as many works by Florovsky. I have also heard very good things about
          > Louth's "Discerning the Mystery". SVS Press also has some interesting books
          > on the topic by Kesich and Barrois; I'd stay away from Tarazi, personally.
          >
          > The best way to read Scripture would be through the Fathers. Theophylact
          > of Ochrid's commentaries on the Gospels are very good; as is the ACCS series
          > from InterVarsity. Archbishop Dmitri (Royster) also has exegetical books on
          > Romans and Hebrews. Manley's Bible and the Holy Fathers for Orthodox<http://www.svspress.com/product_info.php?cPath=43_6&products_id=11&osCsid=qie28q80d75h8hbks95mopolq4>is also good, but it's expensive and the print is not always very friendly
          > on the eyes. A very interesting way to read the Bible is through the Great
          > Canon of St. Andrew of Crete: read the hymns and then check the Scriptural
          > citation to see how the Saint 'read' the passage in question.
          >
          > Christopher
          >
          >
          >
          > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Richard <PastorFutrell@...>wrote:
          >
          >>
          >>
          >> Greetings:
          >>
          >> I'd like to ask you all a favor. Being former Lutherans, can you provide a
          >> list of books I can read to help me understand Eastern Orthodoxy, including
          >> the biblical approach, language usage, theological emphases, etc?
          >>
          >> I know you all will say the best way is to "come and see." But please help
          >> one, like you all previously were, steeped in western theological thinking
          >> and speaking to apprehend things Eastern.
          >>
          >> From all your suggestions I'll put together a list by consensus. Who
          >> knows? It may even turn out to be a permanent list on this Yahoo site for
          >> others.
          >>
          >> Note Bene: I've met and visited Fr Andy Moore, a convert from Lutheranism
          >> as an LC-MS pastor, and find his discussion of things to be robustly
          >> Lutheran in many ways (according to the Confessions, not Lutheranism as it
          >> exists today in North America). In some ways, what he says put flesh and
          >> bones on what the Lutheran Confessions mention in passing or assume to be
          >> the Christian worldview. But I haven't asked him this question that I've put
          >> forward to you all.
          >>
          >> I've no intention to convert (unless I'm convinced EO has a better grasp
          >> on the Truth), but I want to truly understand Eastern Orthodoxy and get past
          >> the caricatures.
          >>
          >> Thanks. And awaiting you replies. :-)
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • randall hay
          One caveat with the Intervasity ACCS commentaries is that they include commentary from heretics without distinguishing them from those of Orthodox fathers. I
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 15, 2009
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            One caveat with the Intervasity ACCS commentaries is that they include commentary from heretics without distinguishing them from those of Orthodox fathers.

            I was looking through a volume of the series came across some comments from one Isho'dad of Merv. I'd never heard of him so I looked him up; he was Nestorian.

            It seemed odd--almost unbelievable--when I discovered that....but there you are. I heard a monastic point that out, too. The series is edited by scholars; perhaps they see it as more scholarly than practical...or perhaps they don't see some of the heretics as heretical.




            ________________________________
            From: Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...>
            To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:00:03 PM
            Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Best Books to read for a Lutheran pastor to understand Eastern Orthodoxy


            For books discussing the approach to the Bible, etc. I would suggest looking
            at the footnoted works cited in my "The Authority of Scripture in the
            Orthodox Church, for Lutherans". I would especially look at Frs. John Behr
            (his "Formation of Christian Theology" series), John Breck (" Scripture in
            Tradition<http://www.svspress .com/product_ info.php? cPath=43_ 6&products_ id=252&osCsid= qie28q80d75h8hbk s95mopolq4>")
            and Seraphim Rose. You could probably also put Lossky in the same camp, as
            well as many works by Florovsky. I have also heard very good things about
            Louth's "Discerning the Mystery". SVS Press also has some interesting books
            on the topic by Kesich and Barrois; I'd stay away from Tarazi, personally.

            The best way to read Scripture would be through the Fathers. Theophylact of
            Ochrid's commentaries on the Gospels are very good; as is the ACCS series
            from InterVarsity. Archbishop Dmitri (Royster) also has exegetical books on
            Romans and Hebrews. Manley's Bible and the Holy Fathers for
            Orthodox<http://www.svspress .com/product_ info.php? cPath=43_ 6&products_ id=11&osCsid= qie28q80d75h8hbk s95mopolq4>is
            also good, but it's expensive and the print is not always very
            friendly
            on the eyes. A very interesting way to read the Bible is through the Great
            Canon of St. Andrew of Crete: read the hymns and then check the Scriptural
            citation to see how the Saint 'read' the passage in question.

            Christopher

            On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Richard <PastorFutrell@ centurytel. net>wrote:

            >
            >
            > Greetings:
            >
            > I'd like to ask you all a favor. Being former Lutherans, can you provide a
            > list of books I can read to help me understand Eastern Orthodoxy, including
            > the biblical approach, language usage, theological emphases, etc?
            >
            > I know you all will say the best way is to "come and see." But please help
            > one, like you all previously were, steeped in western theological thinking
            > and speaking to apprehend things Eastern.
            >
            > From all your suggestions I'll put together a list by consensus. Who knows?
            > It may even turn out to be a permanent list on this Yahoo site for others.
            >
            > Note Bene: I've met and visited Fr Andy Moore, a convert from Lutheranism
            > as an LC-MS pastor, and find his discussion of things to be robustly
            > Lutheran in many ways (according to the Confessions, not Lutheranism as it
            > exists today in North America). In some ways, what he says put flesh and
            > bones on what the Lutheran Confessions mention in passing or assume to be
            > the Christian worldview. But I haven't asked him this question that I've put
            > forward to you all.
            >
            > I've no intention to convert (unless I'm convinced EO has a better grasp on
            > the Truth), but I want to truly understand Eastern Orthodoxy and get past
            > the caricatures.
            >
            > Thanks. And awaiting you replies. :-)
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • randall hay
            As far as commentaries, I might suggest additionally those of St John Chrysostom....his commentaries on most of the NT are available online (and hard copy) in
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 15, 2009
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              As far as commentaries, I might suggest additionally those of St John Chrysostom....his commentaries on most of the NT are available online (and hard copy) in the old NPNF set. They have influenced later Orthodox commentators universally.

              The disadvantages are that it is an older translation, and not very well laid out...you may have to do some hunting to find stuff on a particular verse.
              Also, most are sermons preached to his church, and long (people back then had a better attention span). Sometimes he describes 4th century Constantinopolitan life in fascinating detail....for instance, some people were so into chariot racing they could discuss the strengths and weaknesses of individual horses on teams, much as we may with NFL offensive lines...but couldn't name the four Gospels.

              Theophylact, whom Christopher mentioned, distilled them and added material from other fathers....they are quite well laid out and easy to follow for personal edification or sermons. I use Theophylact and/or Chrysostom on a daily basis.

              R.




              ________________________________
              From: Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...>
              To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:00:03 PM
              Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Best Books to read for a Lutheran pastor to understand Eastern Orthodoxy


              For books discussing the approach to the Bible, etc. I would suggest looking
              at the footnoted works cited in my "The Authority of Scripture in the
              Orthodox Church, for Lutherans". I would especially look at Frs. John Behr
              (his "Formation of Christian Theology" series), John Breck (" Scripture in
              Tradition<http://www.svspress .com/product_ info.php? cPath=43_ 6&products_ id=252&osCsid= qie28q80d75h8hbk s95mopolq4>")
              and Seraphim Rose. You could probably also put Lossky in the same camp, as
              well as many works by Florovsky. I have also heard very good things about
              Louth's "Discerning the Mystery". SVS Press also has some interesting books
              on the topic by Kesich and Barrois; I'd stay away from Tarazi, personally.

              The best way to read Scripture would be through the Fathers. Theophylact of
              Ochrid's commentaries on the Gospels are very good; as is the ACCS series
              from InterVarsity. Archbishop Dmitri (Royster) also has exegetical books on
              Romans and Hebrews. Manley's Bible and the Holy Fathers for
              Orthodox<http://www.svspress .com/product_ info.php? cPath=43_ 6&products_ id=11&osCsid= qie28q80d75h8hbk s95mopolq4>is
              also good, but it's expensive and the print is not always very
              friendly
              on the eyes. A very interesting way to read the Bible is through the Great
              Canon of St. Andrew of Crete: read the hymns and then check the Scriptural
              citation to see how the Saint 'read' the passage in question.

              Christopher

              On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Richard <PastorFutrell@ centurytel. net>wrote:

              >
              >
              > Greetings:
              >
              > I'd like to ask you all a favor. Being former Lutherans, can you provide a
              > list of books I can read to help me understand Eastern Orthodoxy, including
              > the biblical approach, language usage, theological emphases, etc?
              >
              > I know you all will say the best way is to "come and see." But please help
              > one, like you all previously were, steeped in western theological thinking
              > and speaking to apprehend things Eastern.
              >
              > From all your suggestions I'll put together a list by consensus. Who knows?
              > It may even turn out to be a permanent list on this Yahoo site for others.
              >
              > Note Bene: I've met and visited Fr Andy Moore, a convert from Lutheranism
              > as an LC-MS pastor, and find his discussion of things to be robustly
              > Lutheran in many ways (according to the Confessions, not Lutheranism as it
              > exists today in North America). In some ways, what he says put flesh and
              > bones on what the Lutheran Confessions mention in passing or assume to be
              > the Christian worldview. But I haven't asked him this question that I've put
              > forward to you all.
              >
              > I've no intention to convert (unless I'm convinced EO has a better grasp on
              > the Truth), but I want to truly understand Eastern Orthodoxy and get past
              > the caricatures.
              >
              > Thanks. And awaiting you replies. :-)
              >
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Richard
              Chris, you know, when I first started using the ACCS and reading som of the Fathers, I thought they were all weird and strange. What they wrote often seemed
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 16, 2009
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                Chris,

                you know, when I first started using the ACCS and reading som of the Fathers, I thought they were all weird and strange. What they wrote often seemed off the wall--and sometimes didn't even make sense! Now they are not so strange. I suppose it shows how much we have changed!
              • Richard
                Thanks, Randall. Sorry about my faux paus when in my last post I called you Chris. I was also thinking about Chris Orr s work on the scriptural canon . . .
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 16, 2009
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                  Thanks, Randall. Sorry about my faux paus when in my last post I called you Chris. I was also thinking about Chris Orr's work on the scriptural canon . . . and well the rest is history.
                • Christopher Orr
                  I agree. It was a whole new world that proves how subjective the perspicacity of Scripture argument is. That is, what obvious to one is quite the opposite to
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 16, 2009
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                    I agree. It was a whole new world that proves how subjective the
                    perspicacity of Scripture argument is. That is, what obvious to one is
                    quite the opposite to many another.

                    The note regarding heretical Fathers in the ACCS is important. However,
                    remember it isn't the Orthodox Patristic Commentaries on Scripture, but
                    simply Ancient Christian. Those non-orthodox Fathers provide something of
                    the world in which the Church developed. Some, like Pelagius and Origen and
                    Theodore of Mopsuestia, are also not heretical in everything they wrote and
                    were highly regarded as exegetes long after their time (and
                    anathematization, especially in the case of Origen; Mopsuestia often comes
                    to us via Chrysostom, too). Some of the editorial choices are also a little
                    odd: for instance, it is assumed that Rufinus (I think that's who)
                    translated Pelagius; since Rufinus' work was accepted as Orthodox, they
                    simply rename all his presumed translations of Pelagius as Pelagius without
                    taking into account the fact that Rufinus may have tidied up Pelagius for
                    future consumption.

                    Personally, I often find the Protestant apologetical comments of the editors
                    to be the most annoying in the ACCS series.

                    Christopher



                    On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Richard <PastorFutrell@...>wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > Chris,
                    >
                    > you know, when I first started using the ACCS and reading som of the
                    > Fathers, I thought they were all weird and strange. What they wrote often
                    > seemed off the wall--and sometimes didn't even make sense! Now they are not
                    > so strange. I suppose it shows how much we have changed!
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • randall hay
                    That seems to be a never-ending process...beginning to put on the mind of Christ, as St Paul says. I think the same thing is true in the written prayers and
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 16, 2009
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                      That seems to be a never-ending process...beginning to put on the "mind of Christ," as St Paul says.

                      I think the same thing is true in the written prayers and public services...no matter how many times a prayer is repeated, it can always strike the soul more deeply. (One of our priests always said "We don't need to change the words, we need to change our hearts.)

                      R.






                      ________________________________
                      From: Richard <PastorFutrell@...>
                      To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 9:15:57 AM
                      Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Best Books to read for a Lutheran pastor to understand Eastern Orthodoxy


                      Chris,

                      you know, when I first started using the ACCS and reading som of the Fathers, I thought they were all weird and strange. What they wrote often seemed off the wall--and sometimes didn't even make sense! Now they are not so strange. I suppose it shows how much we have changed!




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Oruaseht
                      Greetings dear Brother - as a Lutheran Pastor in your similar position of investigating the Orthodox Church, here is a list of what I have read & am reading:
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 19, 2009
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                        Greetings dear Brother - as a Lutheran Pastor in your similar position of investigating the Orthodox Church, here is a list of what I have read & am reading:

                        Vladimir Lossky http://www.amazon.com/Mystical-Theology-Eastern-Church/dp/0913836311/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964637&sr=8-1

                        Alexander Schmemann http://www.amazon.com/Life-World-Sacraments-Orthodoxy/dp/0913836087/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964662&sr=1-1

                        http://www.amazon.com/Eucharist-Sacrament-Kingdom/dp/0881410187/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964662&sr=1-3

                        http://www.amazon.com/Water-Spirit-Liturgical-Study-Baptism/dp/0913836109/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964662&sr=1-4

                        http://www.amazon.com/Great-Lent-Journey-Alexander-Schmemann/dp/0913836044/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964662&sr=1-8

                        Lawrence Farley http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_1_10?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=let+us+attend+a+journey+through+the+orthodox+divine+liturgy&x=0&y=0&sprefix=Let+us+att

                        And, if you would like an intriguing look at Western Theology up to the middle ages regarding Infant Baptism & Confirmation & First Communion as one integrated Rite - as it still is in the East (and WAS in the West), check out Fisher's Book: http://www.amazon.ca/Baptism-Medieval-West-Disintegration-Initiation/dp/1595250018/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1255964871&sr=8-2-fkmr0

                        I can't recommend Schmemann enough. After Lossky, I read him and have been hooked on Orthodoxy ever since as the fullness of the Christian faith.

                        Feel free to email me if you would like to dialogue further about Lutheranism (the confessional kind) and Orthodoxy.


                        --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <PastorFutrell@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Greetings:
                        >
                        > I'd like to ask you all a favor. Being former Lutherans, can you provide a list of books I can read to help me understand Eastern Orthodoxy, including the biblical approach, language usage, theological emphases, etc?
                        >
                        > I know you all will say the best way is to "come and see." But please help one, like you all previously were, steeped in western theological thinking and speaking to apprehend things Eastern.
                        >
                        > From all your suggestions I'll put together a list by consensus. Who knows? It may even turn out to be a permanent list on this Yahoo site for others.
                        >
                        > Note Bene: I've met and visited Fr Andy Moore, a convert from Lutheranism as an LC-MS pastor, and find his discussion of things to be robustly Lutheran in many ways (according to the Confessions, not Lutheranism as it exists today in North America). In some ways, what he says put flesh and bones on what the Lutheran Confessions mention in passing or assume to be the Christian worldview. But I haven't asked him this question that I've put forward to you all.
                        >
                        > I've no intention to convert (unless I'm convinced EO has a better grasp on the Truth), but I want to truly understand Eastern Orthodoxy and get past the caricatures.
                        >
                        > Thanks. And awaiting you replies. :-)
                        >
                      • Christopher Orr
                        I would definitely encourage people to read well beyond Schmemann. I think his pastoral works on Great Lent and the Winter Pascha are excellent; he also did a
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 19, 2009
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                          I would definitely encourage people to read well beyond Schmemann. I
                          think his pastoral works on Great Lent and the Winter Pascha are
                          excellent; he also did a great deal to further publication of Orthodox
                          theology and works in English.

                          However, he is definitely a certain 'type' of Orthodox theologian, and
                          that type is not accepted around the world in all its particulars -
                          especially after the fall of Communism and the resurgence of the
                          former Eastern Bloc churches and the reflowering of Mt Athos. He is
                          especially controversial regarding his suggested changes to Orthodox
                          practice relative to what he identifies as past 'abuses', 'Western
                          influences', Byzantine and Turkish influences, etc. Even his academic
                          work has been superseded in more recent years both in and outside of
                          Orthodoxy. His influence on the autocephaly of the OCA and the
                          narrative behind the Russian Mission being the only 'canonical' source
                          for Orthodox unity in North America is also being questioned more and
                          more. That is, he was a man of his times and should be read as such
                          along with a broad, 'conciliar' selection of Orthodox witnesses to the
                          Faith.

                          I should note that my spiritual father had Fr. Alexander as his
                          confessor in Seminary. He is also the grandfather of a priest's wife
                          I was teaching a retreat with yesterday. So, I'm not anti-Schmemann,
                          just pointing out that he is not the undisputed gold standard of
                          Orthodoxy.

                          Christopher

                          On 10/19/09, Oruaseht <oruaseht@...> wrote:
                          > Greetings dear Brother - as a Lutheran Pastor in your similar position of
                          > investigating the Orthodox Church, here is a list of what I have read & am
                          > reading:
                          >
                          > Vladimir Lossky
                          > http://www.amazon.com/Mystical-Theology-Eastern-Church/dp/0913836311/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964637&sr=8-1
                          >
                          > Alexander Schmemann
                          > http://www.amazon.com/Life-World-Sacraments-Orthodoxy/dp/0913836087/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964662&sr=1-1
                          >
                          > http://www.amazon.com/Eucharist-Sacrament-Kingdom/dp/0881410187/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964662&sr=1-3
                          >
                          > http://www.amazon.com/Water-Spirit-Liturgical-Study-Baptism/dp/0913836109/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964662&sr=1-4
                          >
                          > http://www.amazon.com/Great-Lent-Journey-Alexander-Schmemann/dp/0913836044/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964662&sr=1-8
                          >
                          > Lawrence Farley
                          > http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_1_10?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=let+us+attend+a+journey+through+the+orthodox+divine+liturgy&x=0&y=0&sprefix=Let+us+att
                          >
                          > And, if you would like an intriguing look at Western Theology up to the
                          > middle ages regarding Infant Baptism & Confirmation & First Communion as one
                          > integrated Rite - as it still is in the East (and WAS in the West), check
                          > out Fisher's Book:
                          > http://www.amazon.ca/Baptism-Medieval-West-Disintegration-Initiation/dp/1595250018/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1255964871&sr=8-2-fkmr0
                          >
                          > I can't recommend Schmemann enough. After Lossky, I read him and have been
                          > hooked on Orthodoxy ever since as the fullness of the Christian faith.
                          >
                          > Feel free to email me if you would like to dialogue further about
                          > Lutheranism (the confessional kind) and Orthodoxy.
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <PastorFutrell@...>
                          > wrote:
                          >>
                          >> Greetings:
                          >>
                          >> I'd like to ask you all a favor. Being former Lutherans, can you provide
                          >> a list of books I can read to help me understand Eastern Orthodoxy,
                          >> including the biblical approach, language usage, theological emphases,
                          >> etc?
                          >>
                          >> I know you all will say the best way is to "come and see." But please
                          >> help one, like you all previously were, steeped in western theological
                          >> thinking and speaking to apprehend things Eastern.
                          >>
                          >> From all your suggestions I'll put together a list by consensus. Who
                          >> knows? It may even turn out to be a permanent list on this Yahoo site for
                          >> others.
                          >>
                          >> Note Bene: I've met and visited Fr Andy Moore, a convert from Lutheranism
                          >> as an LC-MS pastor, and find his discussion of things to be robustly
                          >> Lutheran in many ways (according to the Confessions, not Lutheranism as it
                          >> exists today in North America). In some ways, what he says put flesh and
                          >> bones on what the Lutheran Confessions mention in passing or assume to be
                          >> the Christian worldview. But I haven't asked him this question that I've
                          >> put forward to you all.
                          >>
                          >> I've no intention to convert (unless I'm convinced EO has a better grasp
                          >> on the Truth), but I want to truly understand Eastern Orthodoxy and get
                          >> past the caricatures.
                          >>
                          >> Thanks. And awaiting you replies. :-)
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Oruaseht
                          Christopher makes good points about Schmemann. At least from my experience though, with a Lutheran Pastor education/mindset, Schmemann has spoken to me far
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 19, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Christopher makes good points about Schmemann. At least from my experience though, with a Lutheran Pastor education/mindset, Schmemann has spoken to me far more than any other Orthodox Author I have read (thus far). He has answers for much of the questions Lutheran Pastors bring to the table. Despite what Global Orthodoxy may criticize/critique him for, he is an extremely helpful resource for Lutheran Pastors exploring Orthodoxy.

                            --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I would definitely encourage people to read well beyond Schmemann. I
                            > think his pastoral works on Great Lent and the Winter Pascha are
                            > excellent; he also did a great deal to further publication of Orthodox
                            > theology and works in English.
                            >
                            > However, he is definitely a certain 'type' of Orthodox theologian, and
                            > that type is not accepted around the world in all its particulars -
                            > especially after the fall of Communism and the resurgence of the
                            > former Eastern Bloc churches and the reflowering of Mt Athos. He is
                            > especially controversial regarding his suggested changes to Orthodox
                            > practice relative to what he identifies as past 'abuses', 'Western
                            > influences', Byzantine and Turkish influences, etc. Even his academic
                            > work has been superseded in more recent years both in and outside of
                            > Orthodoxy. His influence on the autocephaly of the OCA and the
                            > narrative behind the Russian Mission being the only 'canonical' source
                            > for Orthodox unity in North America is also being questioned more and
                            > more. That is, he was a man of his times and should be read as such
                            > along with a broad, 'conciliar' selection of Orthodox witnesses to the
                            > Faith.
                            >
                            > I should note that my spiritual father had Fr. Alexander as his
                            > confessor in Seminary. He is also the grandfather of a priest's wife
                            > I was teaching a retreat with yesterday. So, I'm not anti-Schmemann,
                            > just pointing out that he is not the undisputed gold standard of
                            > Orthodoxy.
                            >
                            > Christopher
                            >
                            > On 10/19/09, Oruaseht <oruaseht@...> wrote:
                            > > Greetings dear Brother - as a Lutheran Pastor in your similar position of
                            > > investigating the Orthodox Church, here is a list of what I have read & am
                            > > reading:
                            > >
                            > > Vladimir Lossky
                            > > http://www.amazon.com/Mystical-Theology-Eastern-Church/dp/0913836311/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964637&sr=8-1
                            > >
                            > > Alexander Schmemann
                            > > http://www.amazon.com/Life-World-Sacraments-Orthodoxy/dp/0913836087/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964662&sr=1-1
                            > >
                            > > http://www.amazon.com/Eucharist-Sacrament-Kingdom/dp/0881410187/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964662&sr=1-3
                            > >
                            > > http://www.amazon.com/Water-Spirit-Liturgical-Study-Baptism/dp/0913836109/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964662&sr=1-4
                            > >
                            > > http://www.amazon.com/Great-Lent-Journey-Alexander-Schmemann/dp/0913836044/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964662&sr=1-8
                            > >
                            > > Lawrence Farley
                            > > http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_1_10?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=let+us+attend+a+journey+through+the+orthodox+divine+liturgy&x=0&y=0&sprefix=Let+us+att
                            > >
                            > > And, if you would like an intriguing look at Western Theology up to the
                            > > middle ages regarding Infant Baptism & Confirmation & First Communion as one
                            > > integrated Rite - as it still is in the East (and WAS in the West), check
                            > > out Fisher's Book:
                            > > http://www.amazon.ca/Baptism-Medieval-West-Disintegration-Initiation/dp/1595250018/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1255964871&sr=8-2-fkmr0
                            > >
                            > > I can't recommend Schmemann enough. After Lossky, I read him and have been
                            > > hooked on Orthodoxy ever since as the fullness of the Christian faith.
                            > >
                            > > Feel free to email me if you would like to dialogue further about
                            > > Lutheranism (the confessional kind) and Orthodoxy.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <PastorFutrell@>
                            > > wrote:
                            > >>
                            > >> Greetings:
                            > >>
                            > >> I'd like to ask you all a favor. Being former Lutherans, can you provide
                            > >> a list of books I can read to help me understand Eastern Orthodoxy,
                            > >> including the biblical approach, language usage, theological emphases,
                            > >> etc?
                            > >>
                            > >> I know you all will say the best way is to "come and see." But please
                            > >> help one, like you all previously were, steeped in western theological
                            > >> thinking and speaking to apprehend things Eastern.
                            > >>
                            > >> From all your suggestions I'll put together a list by consensus. Who
                            > >> knows? It may even turn out to be a permanent list on this Yahoo site for
                            > >> others.
                            > >>
                            > >> Note Bene: I've met and visited Fr Andy Moore, a convert from Lutheranism
                            > >> as an LC-MS pastor, and find his discussion of things to be robustly
                            > >> Lutheran in many ways (according to the Confessions, not Lutheranism as it
                            > >> exists today in North America). In some ways, what he says put flesh and
                            > >> bones on what the Lutheran Confessions mention in passing or assume to be
                            > >> the Christian worldview. But I haven't asked him this question that I've
                            > >> put forward to you all.
                            > >>
                            > >> I've no intention to convert (unless I'm convinced EO has a better grasp
                            > >> on the Truth), but I want to truly understand Eastern Orthodoxy and get
                            > >> past the caricatures.
                            > >>
                            > >> Thanks. And awaiting you replies. :-)
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • Oruaseht
                            Christopher makes good points about Schmemann. At least from my experience though, with a Lutheran Pastor education/mindset, Schmemann has spoken to me far
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 19, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Christopher makes good points about Schmemann. At least from my experience though, with a Lutheran Pastor education/mindset, Schmemann has spoken to me far more than any other Orthodox Author I have read (thus far). He has answers for much of the questions Lutheran Pastors bring to the table. Despite what Global Orthodoxy may criticize/critique him for, he is an extremely helpful resource for Lutheran Pastors exploring Orthodoxy.

                              --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I would definitely encourage people to read well beyond Schmemann. I
                              > think his pastoral works on Great Lent and the Winter Pascha are
                              > excellent; he also did a great deal to further publication of Orthodox
                              > theology and works in English.
                              >
                              > However, he is definitely a certain 'type' of Orthodox theologian, and
                              > that type is not accepted around the world in all its particulars -
                              > especially after the fall of Communism and the resurgence of the
                              > former Eastern Bloc churches and the reflowering of Mt Athos. He is
                              > especially controversial regarding his suggested changes to Orthodox
                              > practice relative to what he identifies as past 'abuses', 'Western
                              > influences', Byzantine and Turkish influences, etc. Even his academic
                              > work has been superseded in more recent years both in and outside of
                              > Orthodoxy. His influence on the autocephaly of the OCA and the
                              > narrative behind the Russian Mission being the only 'canonical' source
                              > for Orthodox unity in North America is also being questioned more and
                              > more. That is, he was a man of his times and should be read as such
                              > along with a broad, 'conciliar' selection of Orthodox witnesses to the
                              > Faith.
                              >
                              > I should note that my spiritual father had Fr. Alexander as his
                              > confessor in Seminary. He is also the grandfather of a priest's wife
                              > I was teaching a retreat with yesterday. So, I'm not anti-Schmemann,
                              > just pointing out that he is not the undisputed gold standard of
                              > Orthodoxy.
                              >
                              > Christopher
                              >
                              > On 10/19/09, Oruaseht <oruaseht@...> wrote:
                              > > Greetings dear Brother - as a Lutheran Pastor in your similar position of
                              > > investigating the Orthodox Church, here is a list of what I have read & am
                              > > reading:
                              > >
                              > > Vladimir Lossky
                              > > http://www.amazon.com/Mystical-Theology-Eastern-Church/dp/0913836311/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964637&sr=8-1
                              > >
                              > > Alexander Schmemann
                              > > http://www.amazon.com/Life-World-Sacraments-Orthodoxy/dp/0913836087/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964662&sr=1-1
                              > >
                              > > http://www.amazon.com/Eucharist-Sacrament-Kingdom/dp/0881410187/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964662&sr=1-3
                              > >
                              > > http://www.amazon.com/Water-Spirit-Liturgical-Study-Baptism/dp/0913836109/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964662&sr=1-4
                              > >
                              > > http://www.amazon.com/Great-Lent-Journey-Alexander-Schmemann/dp/0913836044/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255964662&sr=1-8
                              > >
                              > > Lawrence Farley
                              > > http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_1_10?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=let+us+attend+a+journey+through+the+orthodox+divine+liturgy&x=0&y=0&sprefix=Let+us+att
                              > >
                              > > And, if you would like an intriguing look at Western Theology up to the
                              > > middle ages regarding Infant Baptism & Confirmation & First Communion as one
                              > > integrated Rite - as it still is in the East (and WAS in the West), check
                              > > out Fisher's Book:
                              > > http://www.amazon.ca/Baptism-Medieval-West-Disintegration-Initiation/dp/1595250018/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1255964871&sr=8-2-fkmr0
                              > >
                              > > I can't recommend Schmemann enough. After Lossky, I read him and have been
                              > > hooked on Orthodoxy ever since as the fullness of the Christian faith.
                              > >
                              > > Feel free to email me if you would like to dialogue further about
                              > > Lutheranism (the confessional kind) and Orthodoxy.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <PastorFutrell@>
                              > > wrote:
                              > >>
                              > >> Greetings:
                              > >>
                              > >> I'd like to ask you all a favor. Being former Lutherans, can you provide
                              > >> a list of books I can read to help me understand Eastern Orthodoxy,
                              > >> including the biblical approach, language usage, theological emphases,
                              > >> etc?
                              > >>
                              > >> I know you all will say the best way is to "come and see." But please
                              > >> help one, like you all previously were, steeped in western theological
                              > >> thinking and speaking to apprehend things Eastern.
                              > >>
                              > >> From all your suggestions I'll put together a list by consensus. Who
                              > >> knows? It may even turn out to be a permanent list on this Yahoo site for
                              > >> others.
                              > >>
                              > >> Note Bene: I've met and visited Fr Andy Moore, a convert from Lutheranism
                              > >> as an LC-MS pastor, and find his discussion of things to be robustly
                              > >> Lutheran in many ways (according to the Confessions, not Lutheranism as it
                              > >> exists today in North America). In some ways, what he says put flesh and
                              > >> bones on what the Lutheran Confessions mention in passing or assume to be
                              > >> the Christian worldview. But I haven't asked him this question that I've
                              > >> put forward to you all.
                              > >>
                              > >> I've no intention to convert (unless I'm convinced EO has a better grasp
                              > >> on the Truth), but I want to truly understand Eastern Orthodoxy and get
                              > >> past the caricatures.
                              > >>
                              > >> Thanks. And awaiting you replies. :-)
                              > >>
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
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