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Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Divine Liturgy Today

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  • Christopher Orr
    I feel for you with the toddler. I have an almost 12 month old. He s very good overall, but sometime a kid just has to crawl and burn off some energy. My
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 24, 2009
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      I feel for you with the toddler. I have an almost 12 month old. He's very
      good overall, but sometime a kid just has to crawl and burn off some
      energy. My GOA priest has often said that kids love church - just in small
      doses. So, don't feel as if you need to keep her still the whole time.
      Feel free to take her out and come back in. My priest said he used to walk
      around the block with his kids and then come back into the service. It's
      probably harder in a small parish, but it's very common in Orthodox churches
      for people to be moving around during the service. So, feel free to take
      your daughter around to the icons, to the candles, etc. If you aren't
      supposed to be moving around at a given point (e.g., Small and Great
      Entrances, during the Creed, Lord's Prayer, the Anaphora) someone will let
      you know.

      Christopher



      On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 9:51 PM, oruaseht <oruaseht@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > So today we finally had the opportunity to visit an Orthodox Church for
      > Liturgy. While in Moose Jaw for my Grandma's 80th Birthday celebration, our
      > family attended Holy Trinity Orthodox Church (
      > http://www.orthodoxmoosejaw.org/), a parish of the OCA. This was my second
      > Orthodox Liturgy and my wife's first, as well as a first for our 19 month
      > old daughter. Attending Liturgy with a toddler is always an exciting/tiring
      > experience to say the least!
      >
      > I asked my wife what she thought of the experience on the drive home. We
      > chatted about things for over an hour. I have been studying Orthodoxy for
      > around 4 years or so, so I was somewhat familiar with St. John Chrysostom's
      > Liturgy. However, my wife commented on how crazy everything seemed as there
      > were so many different things happening simultaneously!
      >
      > The parish is quite small, and there were around 13 people in attendance
      > today, including us. So it was very intimate. We enjoyed the incense, icons
      > and decor of the church, as it was quite beautiful. The liturgy was a blur
      > to us though as trying to keep a toddler quiet takes a lot of energy. A
      > younger family came in who also had a small child, so that made us feel a
      > bit more comfortable.
      >
      > The Lutheran Divine Service has some common elements with the Orthodox
      > service, so we were able to participate in a few instances, once we figured
      > out the tones being used. They did have printed copies of the Liturgy, with
      > sheet music, but I found it easier to just stand in the Liturgy and take it
      > all in, rather than trying to flip through pages and get lost along the way.
      >
      > The service today was intriguing. It had a feeling of Holiness and "other
      > worldly-ness" yet at the same time a very human, conversational feel. The
      > only other place I have experienced this was at a Jewish Synagogue service I
      > attended in University. The Father's homily had this kind of feel, Divine
      > discussion about the Kingdom of God, yet in a very personable flavor. My
      > wife said it was "very high church, yet down to earth at the same time."
      >
      > On the other side, we found the service to be quite long, drawn out and
      > very repetitive. But, in all fairness, we were also at our wits end keeping
      > our little girl entertained for almost 2 hours! :) If we were to attend a
      > few more times, I'm sure we would be able to appreciate it more and get more
      > accustomed to Orthodox Liturgy. We had a wonderful time all in all and the
      > people were very welcoming. The parish has done a great job in being very
      > welcoming to the community, and being very accessible by having their church
      > doors open to the public daily, doing mass mailings to the community and by
      > renovating the parish, including a meditative garden that engages the public
      > as they pass by. I tried to encourage the Father about their efforts and how
      > Orthodoxy is poised to help many people find the fullness of the Christian
      > Church. I look forward to our next visit!
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Fr John W Fenton
      Oruaseht wrote: However, my wife commented on how crazy everything seemed as there were so many different things happening simultaneously! Many things
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 24, 2009
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        Oruaseht wrote:



        However, my wife commented on how crazy everything seemed as there were so
        many different things happening simultaneously!



        Many things happening at once used to be the norm in Christian worship-East
        and West. Apparently the Reformation changed this in protestant churches. (I
        have no hard data for this, simply anecdotal evidence.) It appears that the
        notion that worship is an educational event rather than the heavenly liturgy
        was instrumental in this change. When worship is primarily education,
        everyone must be (sit) still in order to learn. I could say more, but need
        to get back to my class.



        Asking your prayers, the unworthy priest,





        Fr. John W. Fenton

        <http://holyincarnation.org/> Holy Incarnation Orthodox Church

        Location: 1385 Goddard Rd, Lincoln Park MI 48146

        Mail: 8941 Quandt Ave, Allen Park MI 48101

        313.282.6153

        http://holyincarnation.org

        frfenton@...





        From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of oruaseht
        Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:52 PM
        To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Divine Liturgy Today





        So today we finally had the opportunity to visit an Orthodox Church for
        Liturgy. While in Moose Jaw for my Grandma's 80th Birthday celebration, our
        family attended Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
        (http://www.orthodoxmoosejaw.org/), a parish of the OCA. This was my second
        Orthodox Liturgy and my wife's first, as well as a first for our 19 month
        old daughter. Attending Liturgy with a toddler is always an exciting/tiring
        experience to say the least!

        I asked my wife what she thought of the experience on the drive home. We
        chatted about things for over an hour. I have been studying Orthodoxy for
        around 4 years or so, so I was somewhat familiar with St. John Chrysostom's
        Liturgy. However, my wife commented on how crazy everything seemed as there
        were so many different things happening simultaneously!

        The parish is quite small, and there were around 13 people in attendance
        today, including us. So it was very intimate. We enjoyed the incense, icons
        and decor of the church, as it was quite beautiful. The liturgy was a blur
        to us though as trying to keep a toddler quiet takes a lot of energy. A
        younger family came in who also had a small child, so that made us feel a
        bit more comfortable.

        The Lutheran Divine Service has some common elements with the Orthodox
        service, so we were able to participate in a few instances, once we figured
        out the tones being used. They did have printed copies of the Liturgy, with
        sheet music, but I found it easier to just stand in the Liturgy and take it
        all in, rather than trying to flip through pages and get lost along the way.

        The service today was intriguing. It had a feeling of Holiness and "other
        worldly-ness" yet at the same time a very human, conversational feel. The
        only other place I have experienced this was at a Jewish Synagogue service I
        attended in University. The Father's homily had this kind of feel, Divine
        discussion about the Kingdom of God, yet in a very personable flavor. My
        wife said it was "very high church, yet down to earth at the same time."

        On the other side, we found the service to be quite long, drawn out and very
        repetitive. But, in all fairness, we were also at our wits end keeping our
        little girl entertained for almost 2 hours! :) If we were to attend a few
        more times, I'm sure we would be able to appreciate it more and get more
        accustomed to Orthodox Liturgy. We had a wonderful time all in all and the
        people were very welcoming. The parish has done a great job in being very
        welcoming to the community, and being very accessible by having their church
        doors open to the public daily, doing mass mailings to the community and by
        renovating the parish, including a meditative garden that engages the public
        as they pass by. I tried to encourage the Father about their efforts and how
        Orthodoxy is poised to help many people find the fullness of the Christian
        Church. I look forward to our next visit!





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • oruaseht
        This is an excellent point. When you study what is happening in Heaven in Revelation, tons of things are going on at the same time. Looking at worship as an
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 24, 2009
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          This is an excellent point. When you study what is happening in Heaven in Revelation, tons of things are going on at the same time. Looking at worship as an experience of Heaven rather than a lecture hall with a talking head is probably the first step in over coming how strange it seems to us.


          --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, "Fr John W Fenton" <frfenton@...> wrote:
          >
          > Oruaseht wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > However, my wife commented on how crazy everything seemed as there were so
          > many different things happening simultaneously!
          >
          >
          >
          > Many things happening at once used to be the norm in Christian worship-East
          > and West. Apparently the Reformation changed this in protestant churches. (I
          > have no hard data for this, simply anecdotal evidence.) It appears that the
          > notion that worship is an educational event rather than the heavenly liturgy
          > was instrumental in this change. When worship is primarily education,
          > everyone must be (sit) still in order to learn. I could say more, but need
          > to get back to my class.
          >
          >
          >
          > Asking your prayers, the unworthy priest,
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Fr. John W. Fenton
          >
          > <http://holyincarnation.org/> Holy Incarnation Orthodox Church
          >
          > Location: 1385 Goddard Rd, Lincoln Park MI 48146
          >
          > Mail: 8941 Quandt Ave, Allen Park MI 48101
          >
          > 313.282.6153
          >
          > http://holyincarnation.org
          >
          > frfenton@...
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > From: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of oruaseht
          > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:52 PM
          > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Divine Liturgy Today
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > So today we finally had the opportunity to visit an Orthodox Church for
          > Liturgy. While in Moose Jaw for my Grandma's 80th Birthday celebration, our
          > family attended Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
          > (http://www.orthodoxmoosejaw.org/), a parish of the OCA. This was my second
          > Orthodox Liturgy and my wife's first, as well as a first for our 19 month
          > old daughter. Attending Liturgy with a toddler is always an exciting/tiring
          > experience to say the least!
          >
          > I asked my wife what she thought of the experience on the drive home. We
          > chatted about things for over an hour. I have been studying Orthodoxy for
          > around 4 years or so, so I was somewhat familiar with St. John Chrysostom's
          > Liturgy. However, my wife commented on how crazy everything seemed as there
          > were so many different things happening simultaneously!
          >
          > The parish is quite small, and there were around 13 people in attendance
          > today, including us. So it was very intimate. We enjoyed the incense, icons
          > and decor of the church, as it was quite beautiful. The liturgy was a blur
          > to us though as trying to keep a toddler quiet takes a lot of energy. A
          > younger family came in who also had a small child, so that made us feel a
          > bit more comfortable.
          >
          > The Lutheran Divine Service has some common elements with the Orthodox
          > service, so we were able to participate in a few instances, once we figured
          > out the tones being used. They did have printed copies of the Liturgy, with
          > sheet music, but I found it easier to just stand in the Liturgy and take it
          > all in, rather than trying to flip through pages and get lost along the way.
          >
          > The service today was intriguing. It had a feeling of Holiness and "other
          > worldly-ness" yet at the same time a very human, conversational feel. The
          > only other place I have experienced this was at a Jewish Synagogue service I
          > attended in University. The Father's homily had this kind of feel, Divine
          > discussion about the Kingdom of God, yet in a very personable flavor. My
          > wife said it was "very high church, yet down to earth at the same time."
          >
          > On the other side, we found the service to be quite long, drawn out and very
          > repetitive. But, in all fairness, we were also at our wits end keeping our
          > little girl entertained for almost 2 hours! :) If we were to attend a few
          > more times, I'm sure we would be able to appreciate it more and get more
          > accustomed to Orthodox Liturgy. We had a wonderful time all in all and the
          > people were very welcoming. The parish has done a great job in being very
          > welcoming to the community, and being very accessible by having their church
          > doors open to the public daily, doing mass mailings to the community and by
          > renovating the parish, including a meditative garden that engages the public
          > as they pass by. I tried to encourage the Father about their efforts and how
          > Orthodoxy is poised to help many people find the fullness of the Christian
          > Church. I look forward to our next visit!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Rosemarie Lieffring
          Looking at worship as an experience of Heaven rather than a lecture hall with a talking head... You are killin me! I am trying to get the last bit of work
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 24, 2009
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            "Looking at worship as an experience of Heaven rather than a lecture hall
            with a talking head..."

            You are killin' me! I am trying to get the last bit of work done so I can
            go home for the night but I am laughing so hard I can hardly finish! :)
            What great imagery! -----R


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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