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Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Introduction

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  • byza7@aol.com
    Kim, On the average I would say it s 1 hr 15 to 1hr30 min. Depends on variables like length of sermon and who is singing the responses etc.. Major feast days
    Message 1 of 38 , Jun 23 6:50 AM
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      Kim,

      On the average I would say it's 1 hr 15 to 1hr30 min. Depends on
      variables like length of sermon and who is singing the responses etc..

      Major feast days (Nativity of Christ etc,) would have a longer service
      of course.

      David Novak


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Kimberly Sparling <belleartmom@...>
      To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:41 am
      Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Introduction

      Thank you, that is the kind of information that helps me feel more
      comfortable. I am used to a 90 minute service on Sundays at my Lutheran
      church; is the Orthodox liturgy on Sunday usually longer than that? Not
      because I am in a hurry to get out and eat lunch, just want to be
      mentally
      prepared.
      Kim

      On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:31 AM, <phos_hilarion@...> wrote:

      >
      > When I was going to Lutheran services, everybody stood or everybody
      sat at
      > the same time and if you didn't you stuck out like a sore thumb. I
      haven't
      > found it to be that way amongst the Orthodox. I don't think I've seen
      any
      > Orthodox do the exact same thing at the same time! ;D Usually
      there's a
      > good mix of people standing, sitting, and such that one more person
      doing
      > something slightly different isn't noticed. It's not that they're
      > disorganized or not paying attention; I think they have a level of
      freedom
      > in their personal piety that a Lutheran is unac
      customed to at first
      (I was
      > anyways). Vespers is a good service to start with if you're concerned
      about
      > standing for a long time since it's shorter than Sunday liturgy.
      > Love in Christ,
      > Emily
      >
      > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
      > From: belleartmom@...
      > Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:36:32 -0500
      > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Introduction
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > A few days ago I bought "The Orthodox Church" by Timothy Ware.
      Heavy
      >
      > on church history so far, but I love history so I am enjoying it!
      >
      > Will add your recommendation to my list.
      >
      > I almost went to the vespers service Saturday at St Mary of Egypt, but
      >
      > I chickened out. All the standing scares me!
      >
      > Kim
      >
      >
      >
      > Sent from my iPhone
      >
      >
      >
      > On Jun 22, 2009, at 9:43 AM, <phos_hilarion@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Hi Kim!
      >
      > >
      >
      > > The first Orthodox book I read was "Facing East" by Frederica
      >
      > > Matthewes-Green. I love this book because it speaks about Orthodoxy
      >
      > > in an experiential way, and at the time I wasn't ready to dive into
      >
      > > deep Orthodox theology - I just wanted to "see" what Orthodoxy
      >
      > > looked like. I really think you'll enjoy this book too!
      >
      > > Blessings on your inquiry!
      >
      > >20Love in Christ,
      >
      > > Emily
      >
      > >
      >
      > > To: LutheransLookingEast@...
      >
      > > From: byza7@...
      >
      > > Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:20:51 -0400
      >
      > > Subject: Fwd: [LutheransLookingEast] Introduction
      >
      > >
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      > >
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      >
      > >
      >
      > > ____________________________________
      >
      > >
      >
      > > From: Byza7
      >
      > >
      >
      > > To: LutheransLookingEast@...
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Sent: 6/18/2009 7:19:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Subj: Fwd: [LutheransLookingEast] Introduction
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Kim and all of you out there that are looking for books of interest
      on
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Orthodoxy.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > A recent favorite book is called "THIRSTING FOR GOD in a Land of
      >
      > > Shallow
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Wells" by Matthew Gallatin
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > This book starts out kind of slow but within short order I couldn't
      >
      > > put
      >
      > >
      >
      > > the book down until I finished it. It is a MUST READ as=2
      0a eye
      >
      > > opener not
      >
      > >
      >
      > > only for this cradle Orthodox but for all that want to study the
      >
      > > faith.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > It's about a man who was a cradle 7th day Adventist and became a
      >
      > >
      >
      > > evangelical preacher. From my memory, I believe he kept having
      >
      > > this feeling that
      >
      > >
      >
      > > something was missing in his life and this must read book walks you
      >
      > > thru how
      >
      > >
      >
      > > he came home to Orthodoxy. CONCILIAR PRESS
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Another book that I have enjoyed is "ORTHODOX WORSHIP a living
      >
      > > continuity
      >
      > >
      >
      > > with the synagogue, the temple and the early Church" By Benjamin
      D.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Williams and Harold B Anstall
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > This book walks you thru how Orthodox Christianity roots from the
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Temple/synagogue. This helps one understand the structure of the
      >
      > > Liturgy, music,
      >
      > >
      >
      > > even to the point of inside architecture of the church from its
      >
      > > Jewish
      >
      > >
      >
      > > roots etc..
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > In reading this book, it will counter act all those people who
      >
      > > think there
      >
      > >
      >
      > > should be NO structure in worship etc but in reality20this book will
      >
      > > show
      >
      > >
      >
      > > you the structure of worship that Christ lived and brought into His
      >
      > > Church.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > LIGHT & LIFE publishing company
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > "THE WAY What Every Protestant Should Know About the Orthodox
      >
      > > Church" by
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Clark Carlton REGINA ORTHODOX PRESS
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Interesting that the first chapter of this book is entitled "My
      >
      > > Heritage
      >
      > >
      >
      > > as a Southern Baptist". Other chapters like Sola Scriptura
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Presuppositions, The Nature of Tradition, The Structure and Worship
      >
      > > of the Early Church,
      >
      > >
      >
      > > The Protestant Transformation etc.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > "DANCING ALONE A Quest for Orthodox Faith in the Age of False
      >
      > > Religion"
      >
      > >
      >
      > > By Frank Schaeffer HOLY CROSS PRESS
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I enjoyed this book because it is very hard ball on
      denominationalism,
      >
      > >
      >
      > > secularism, rationalism and of course roman revisionism. Frank
      >
      > > pulls NO
      >
      > >
      >
      > > punches with his words and some people that even like his books are
      >
      > > the ones
      >
      > >
      >
      > > who think he is over strong in his words. That's for you to
      >
      > > decide because
      >
      > >
      >
      > > he supports
      his points with many historical facts that I found very
      >
      > >
      >
      > > interesting.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Last item is a pamphlet, "An Eastern Orthodox Response to
      >
      > > Evangelical
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Claims" by Fr. Paul O'Callaghan of the Antiochian Archdiocese
      >
      > > LIGHT AND
      >
      > >
      >
      > > LIFE Publishing
      >
      > >
      >
      > > This book is in plain language and some of the chapters are
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Tradition of Scripture
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Worshiping Mary as the "Mother of God"
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Can the Saints Hear Our Prayers
      >
      > >
      >
      > > The Bible Alone
      >
      > >
      >
      > > The Bible and Tradition
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Images in the Church
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Veneration of icons
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Veneration of the cross
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Orthodox "Ritualism"
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Are the Orthodox "born again"
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Are Believers "Saved"?
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Doctrine of Assurance
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Infant baptism
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Holy Communion Only Symbolic?
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Prayers for the Dead
      >
      > >
      >
      > > and OTHER interesting chapters
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Well, that's it for now, IF any of you read any of these books then
      >
      > >
      >
      > > please post what you think of them OR if any of you have read them


      >
      > > then keep us
      >
      > >
      >
      > > advised.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > One last thing, I am sure that MOST if not all of these books can
      be
      >
      > >
      >
      > > purchased used via Amazon. com or Cheapbooks.com etc
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > David Novak
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Kennsaw, Georgia (The Holy Tradition state)
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > ____________________________________
      >
      > >
      >
      > > iFrom: Byza7
      >
      > >
      >
      > > To: belleartmom@...
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Sent: 6/18/2009 3:31:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Subj: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Kansas City area Antiochan
      >
      > > Orthodox church
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Kim,
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I would suggest to you that you visit every Orthodox Church in the
      >
      > > area
      >
      > >
      >
      > > your researching. Yes, the Divine Liturgy, vespers etc is the
      same
      >
      > >
      >
      > > but I honestly believe that each parish has its own personality
      >
      > > within
      >
      > >
      >
      > > themselves and to people searching. Please take that into
      >
      > >
      >
      > > consideration. Most Orthodox priests won't agree with me on the
      >
      > >
      >
      > > parish pe
      rsonality criteria. But as a life long Orthodox that has
      >
      > > been
      >
      > >
      >
      > > geographically been relocated to a variety of areas, I suggest a
      >
      > > visit
      >
      > >
      >
      > > to all the parishes and then decide from there.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I am at work now so when I get home I will pass off some book
      >
      > >
      >
      > > recommendations for you.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > David Novak
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      >
      > >
      >
      > > From: Kimberly Sparling <belleartmom@...>
      >
      > >
      >
      > > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2009 2:22 pm
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Subject: [LutheransLookingEast] Kansas City area Antiochan Orthodox
      >
      > >
      >
      > > church
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Would this be considered a Western rite church?
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > http://www.stbasilkc.org/
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I have actually considered going to a service here before; I
      >
      > >
      >
      > > re-discovered
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > an email I sent to the priest last summer.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Thank you to everyone for your help.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Kim S.
      >
      > >
      >

      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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      > >
      >
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      >
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    • Benjamin Harju
      Christopher s advice is spot-on, as usual. In reading about your liturgical experience in Lutheranism, all I can say is that I had the same sort of experience.
      Message 38 of 38 , Sep 14, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Christopher's advice is spot-on, as usual.

        In reading about your liturgical experience in Lutheranism, all I can say
        is that I had the same sort of experience. I think the search for meaning
        and authenticity in liturgical worship is what draws a lot of us to
        Orthodoxy. While anger and frustration and maybe even exhaustion from the
        squabbling, distrust, and lack of security in Lutheranism can drive us to
        expecting "perfection" in another place, the search for truly catholic and
        orthodox worship is not itself a running away, but a running towards the
        Truth we are thirsting after.

        But if new age worship is such a problem, and the catholic and orthodox
        worship of the Orthodox Church is such a wonderful thing, then (in order to
        avoid personal delusion) it's important to put Christopher's advice into
        practice. The worship in the public liturgy must be carried into the
        home. Introduce a simple but regular routine, and stay with it.

        In Orthodoxy the Liturgy IS the Faith. It's okay to run to that, if it is
        THAT which you are trying to get, but which Lutheranism is incapable of
        giving you. Just keep in mind that we human beings are not so simple:
        while running toward the right things we often bring unrealistic
        expectations at the same time. Take your time. Don't rush. Face each
        thing one at a time, the good and the bad. Christ is faithful; He will
        lead you into all truth. Chase down Christ. Prayer is how to do it.

        In Christ,
        Benjamin Harju

        On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Here's the translation of the Prayer Book I use (well, an updated version,
        > but theses introductory or Trisagion prayers are the same), common in ROCOR
        > and some OCA:
        >
        > http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/prayerbook/main.htm
        >
        > This seems to be the Greek translation:
        >
        > http://www.transchurch.org/prayers.html#daily
        >
        > Antiochian:
        >
        > http://www.antiochian.org/morning-prayers
        > http://www.antiochian.org/evening-prayers
        >
        > Others are easy to find online. I would recommend using whatever
        > translation is used at the parish you visit or attend most often.
        >
        > Christopher
        >
        >
        > On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote:
        >
        > > I would caution that conversion simply *from* one faith to another is
        > > bound to be problematic. We can't convert out of anger. We can only
        > > convert *to*, and out of love for God is love and he is the
        > > destination.
        > >
        > > Obviously, there are always factors that cause us to begin looing or
        > > to be open to alternatives, and these are often infruriating, hurtful,
        > > etc., but the actual conversion must be because of the truth, merit,
        > > beauty of what is found: the pearl of great price.
        > >
        > > May the Lord and his saints care for you in your inquiry.
        > >
        > > If you aren't praying regularly, start. Morning and evening. Try
        > > saying just the introductory prayers from the prayer book: O Heavenly
        > > King, Holy God, Most Holy Trinity, Our Father (translations vary for
        > > these prayers). Or, the Jesus Prayer, but regularly. You can't think
        > > your way through this, regardless of where you land.
        > >
        > > Christopher
        > >
        > > On 9/14/12, mygourami <mygourami@...> wrote:
        > > >> So, I find myself in a Church that has a good paper confession but
        > > >> does not live it out. You will find Eastern Orthodoxy more of a Church
        > > >> without a confession, in that, it has a living tradition that
        > continues
        > > >> to this day. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. I pray that
        > > >> you find peace and Jesus Christ in whichever Communion you find is
        > > >> truest to the Scriptures.
        > > >>
        > > >> Many former Lutherans have "gone East," and, unlike some, I do not
        > > >> see them as forsaking their salvation. Maria, in short, where will you
        > > >> best find Jesus Christ and Him crucified? If you find Him better in
        > > >> Eastern Orthodoxy because Lutheranism has so strayed and bought into
        > > >> the nonsense of modern-day Protestantism, I wish you well. If you find
        > > >> Him better in a Lutheran Church that is truly Lutheran, I also wish
        > you
        > > >> well.
        > > >>
        > > >> Pr. RF
        > > >
        > > > We have actually spent over a year visiting other Lutheran-LCMS within
        > > our
        > > > area and one out of state while visiting relatives. They are all over
        > the
        > > > map, so to say. I actually cried at one when they projected on the
        > > screens
        > > > some mindless dribble 'song' where they had the kids repeat a single
        > > phrase
        > > > over and over and we left before the song ended. Our own church is
        > being
        > > > torn apart by what my husband and I call 'new age' Christians, dont
        > know
        > > > what the current term for them is. We did find one church where the
        > > pastor
        > > > still sung the liturgy, uses the red hymnal, and has traditional
        > Lutheran
        > > > Advent and Lenten seasons - why we became Lutheran in the first
        > > place...yet
        > > > he is in his late 30's and I do not know what they are teaching at
        > > Concordia
        > > > U but they are not studying Luther, more like venomous Calvin. I do not
        > > > believe the LCMS has much of a future, when all the red-hymnal folk are
        > > > gone. I fought against the school district for years until I gave up
        > and
        > > > homeschooled my kids, I gave up campaigning for the 'conservative'
        > party
        > > and
        > > > now rally behind 3rd party candidates, and I am abandoning the sinking
        > > ship
        > > > LCMS and taking the life raft offered by the EO.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > Sent from my mobile device
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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