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926Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Re: Implications of intercessory prayers...

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  • Rosemarie Lieffring
    Feb 28 10:25 AM
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      Father Gregory, former Lutheran pastor now Orthodox priest and maybe even a
      participate here did a series addressing this prayer. The links are:

      http://frgregory.blogspot.com/2008/08/prayer-to-theotokos-ii-post-communion.html
      http://frgregory.blogspot.com/2008/09/prayer-to-theotokos-ii-post-communion.html
      http://frgregory.blogspot.com/2008/09/prayer-to-theotokos-ii-post-communion_08.html
      http://frgregory.blogspot.com/2008/09/prayer-to-theotokos-ii-post-communion_15.html

      Maybe you will find these helpful.-----R

      On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Dave W. <dkwiech@...> wrote:

      > At the risk of sounding impolite, I wish to ask a very Lutheran
      > question about a prayer found in the Antiochian Service Book, page
      > 130, where it exhorts the Virgin Mary:
      >
      > "O all-holy Lady Theotokos, light of my darkened soul, my hope, my
      > shelter, my refuge, my consolation and my joy; I thank thee that thou
      > hast permitted me, unworthy though I be, to partake of the immaculate
      > body and precious blood of thy Son. O thou who didst bring forth the
      > true Light, give the light of understanding to the eyes of my heart; O
      > thou who didst bear the Fountain of Immortality, quicken me who am
      > dead in sin. O compassionate Mother of the merciful God, have mercy
      > upon me and grant me humility and contrition of heart, and humbleness
      > of mind, and deliverance from bondage to evil thoughts. And permit
      > me, unto my last breath, to receive, without condemnation, the
      > sanctification of these Holy Mysteries, unto the healing of both body
      > and soul. Grant me tears of repentance and of confession, that I may
      > hymn thee and glorify thee all the days of my life. For blessed and
      > glorified art thou unto all the ages. Amen."
      >
      > To Protestant ears, this sounds idolatrous, given that only the Triune
      > God can provide what its asking for. What am I missing here? To be
      > frank, it is this sort of intercessory prayer that is keeping me on
      > the fence, as much as the OC draws me.
      >
      > Dave
      >
      > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > randall hay
      >
      > <stortford@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > I might add that this sort of thing is exemplified in the NT. In
      > Col 2:5 Paul comments that he is able to see the Colossians' worship
      > and into their spiritual lives, even though he is quite distant
      > physically:
      > >
      > > "Though I am absent in body, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing
      > to see your good order and firmness of your faith in Christ."
      > >
      > > This is truly staggering.
      > >
      > >
      > > St John comments on the supra-human knowledge God can give through
      > the Holy Spirit: "You have been anointed by the Holy One, and you
      > know all" (Greek oidate pantes), I John 2:20; "His anointed teaches
      > you about everything" (Greek, peri panton), 2:27.
      > >
      > > God does not give everyone these gifts, of course. But if we are at
      > least capable of such knowledge through the Holy Spirit while still
      > sinners on earth, our knowledge once we fall asleep in Christ will be
      > even much greater....beyond what we can understand now.
      > >
      > > Subdeacon Randy
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: BPeter Brandt-Sorheim <donpedrogordo@...>
      >
      > > To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 6:41:52 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Implications of intercessory
      > prayers...
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > If by this you mean requesting the intercessions of those Christians
      > dead in the body but whose souls are alive in the hand of God, the
      > answer is certainly: NO, they have no gift of ubiquity save as God
      > from time to time may send them on some task. They are however alive
      > to the Holy Spirit Who is everywhere present and the Giver of Life.
      > Presumeably the Divine and Holy Spirit conveys to them our continued
      > affection for them and the sense of our prayers. They in their now
      > more advanced spiritual condition continue more knowledgeably with
      > their unceasing praise and intercession which they lift up to God from
      > under the heavenly altar. Br Finbar
      > >
      > > --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Dave @¿@¬ <dnaess@frontiernet. net> wrote:
      > >
      > > From: Dave @¿@¬ <dnaess@frontiernet. net>
      > > Subject: [LutheransLookingEa st] Implications of intercessory prayers...
      > > To: LutheransLookingEas t@yahoogroups. com
      > > Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 3:44 PM
      > >
      > > Howdy!
      > >
      > > I just ran across a very thought provolking question and I thought
      > > that I would post it here in hope of an Orthodox response.
      > >
      > > "Does requesting the intercessory prayer of the dead imply the
      > > omnipresence of the dead?"
      > >
      > > Dave
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >


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