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1719Re: Synergy

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  • mrthatoneguy92
    Sep 9, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Wow... that is deep. I'm going to have to chew on that one for awhile.

      --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Orr <xcjorr@...> wrote:
      >
      > I think it's especially important to remember that no one - including
      > Christ! - earns salvation. Forgiveness is not forgiveness if anyone -
      > including Christ! - pays for it; that turns forgiveness into reimbursement
      > or paying on one's behalf.
      >
      > Similarly, sacrifice need not be to anyone. A soldier jumping on a grenade
      > to save his friends is not a sacrifice to anyone, it is simply sacrificing,
      > giving what need not have been given. Christ's sacrifice is not to any
      > person - it is kenosis to the point of death, death on a cross, and descent
      > into Hades.
      >
      > You won't really 'get' the essence/energies distinction. I don't think I
      > have beyond the textbook definition. The shorthand is: God is present
      > Personally, Himself in His energies, His actions. Grace is in some sense
      > the presence of God Himself - often said to be the Holy Spirit.
      >
      > Grace is something that is always present and fillest all things - not just
      > the predestined, the elect, those that believe. We are all imbued with
      > grace enough to choose and work synergistically, or not; this grace is not
      > reserved for some only, in a special, unique way (for some, but not all).
      >
      > Christopher
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 7:46 PM, mrthatoneguy92 <timsteele2@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > Thank you, Christopher, for your help! I appreciate what you have said.
      > >
      > > 1) One of the first things I saw as being an area of agreement between
      > > Lutheranism and Orthodoxy is that salvation cannot be earned. I have always
      > > appreciated that in all my talks with Orthodox Christians, that there has
      > > always been an emphasis on the fact that salvation is not earned. It helped
      > > me overcome some automatic safeguards that would have come up due to being
      > > raised Lutheran.
      > >
      > > 2) I have been looking at the whole theology of God's Essence and Energies.
      > > I am still confused (which I suppose is normal at this stage). However,
      > > despite my lack of understanding, I still see what you are trying to get at.
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > > xcjorr@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I would add that if you remove the idea that 1) salvation is earned and
      > > the idea that 2) grace is simply God's undeserved favor rather than God's
      > > energies and presence, then the synergy 'problem' ceases to be a problem at
      > > all.
      > > >
      > > > That is, this is a problem created by the Lutheran schema.
      > > >
      > > > Christopher
      > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
      > > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: Benjamin Harju <benjamin.harju@>
      > > > Sender: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 19:02:12
      > > > To: <LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > >
      > > > Reply-To: LutheransLookingEast@yahoogroups.com<LutheransLookingEast%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > Subject: Re: [LutheransLookingEast] Synergy
      > > >
      > > > Tim,
      > > >
      > > > Synergy is based on the notion of human freedom and God's respect of that
      > > > freedom. Fallen man is bound as a captive under the tyranny of the devil.
      > > > He is comparable to the Israelites enslaved by the Egyptians. The power
      > > > holding fallen man in bondage is death, and its sting is sin (1Co 15:56).
      > > > So fallen man is under a tyrant, suffers the lash of sin, and is shackled
      > > to
      > > > Hades by death. Yet in this situation he can still exercise his will,
      > > > though because of his bondage to sin and death he cannot fully or
      > > > consistently accomplish that will. And, of course, his will cannot
      > > > accomplish his release and return to God!
      > > >
      > > > Synergy, for the unconverted man, means assenting to the release effected
      > > by
      > > > our Passover Lamb, Christ. Basically that's all that fallen man can do is
      > > > say yes or no, so that is what God requires. Faith in the heart must work
      > > > through outward confession and commitment.
      > > >
      > > > Synergy for the converted man means struggling against your own love of
      > > sin
      > > > and conditioning toward it (passions) and to persevere by God's Grace in
      > > the
      > > > commandments of God. This is the ascetic struggle, also known as daily
      > > > repentance or bearing the cross and following Christ. Again, it's about
      > > > willingly and purposefully growing closer to God. Man is invited to do
      > > it,
      > > > and God supplies the Grace of His Spirit so it is possible. God is not
      > > > passive man's autopilot, but rather the active man's Energizer. The Holy
      > > > Spirit perfects, He does not take over. The demons do not respect free
      > > will
      > > > and try to trick man and lead him into bondage so that they can take over
      > > a
      > > > man.
      > > >
      > > > In the faith-works paradigm man believes and so he works. His work is
      > > > beneficial in his growth in God because God supplies His personal
      > > Energies
      > > > (Grace) to man. The believing man is the active man. Faith works. In
      > > > Lutheranism faith is a passive recipient, and based on what is received
      > > it
      > > > works in gratitude. In Orthodoxy faith is activity, and this active faith
      > > > receives Grace, which draws man deeper into union with God and furthers
      > > the
      > > > potency of his personal spiritual warfare.
      > > >
      > > > I hope this is a decent start.
      > > >
      > > > In Christ,
      > > > Benjamin Harju
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 3:23 PM, mrthatoneguy92 <timsteele2@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > I'll be honest- even though I've done my fair share of research and
      > > > > dictionary looking, I still don't quite understand synergy, how it
      > > relates
      > > > > to the whole faith vs. works thing, etc.
      > > > >
      > > > > If y'all could help me understand it better, that would be greatly
      > > > > appreciated.
      > > > >
      > > > > - Tim
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ------------------------------------
      > > >
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
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