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Re: [Lutheran Liturgy] Anointing with Oil

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  • Darel E. Paul
    The rite of Holy Baptism in _Lutheran Book of Worship_ makes mention of the use of oil in making the sign of cross upon the forehead of the newly baptized:
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 1, 2002
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      The rite of Holy Baptism in _Lutheran Book of Worship_ makes mention
      of the use of oil in making the sign of cross upon the forehead
      of the newly baptized:

      "The minister marks the sign of the cross on the forehead of each
      of the baptized. Oil prepared for this purpose may be used."
      {LBW, p. 124)

      Darel E. Paul

      --- In Lutheran_Liturgy@y..., "David Schultz" <schasse8@n...> wrote:
      > While I am not aware of any published Lutheran church order that
      > uses oil,
    • Thomas W. Hoyt
      ... Being an old Bible Thumper from way back - - please document the meaning of Oil prepared for this purpose . Thanks. Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt Holy Cross
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 1, 2002
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        At 02:02 PM 12/1/02, Darel E. Paul sent:
        >The rite of Holy Baptism in _Lutheran Book of Worship_ makes mention
        >of the use of oil in making the sign of cross upon the forehead
        >of the newly baptized:
        >
        >"The minister marks the sign of the cross on the forehead of each
        >of the baptized. Oil prepared for this purpose may be used."
        >{LBW, p. 124)

        Being an old Bible Thumper from way back - - please document the meaning of
        "Oil prepared for this purpose".

        Thanks.






        Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt
        Holy Cross Lutheran Church
        Warda, TX
        This is IT - Warda
      • John Dornheim
        ... meaning of ... I get my oil during Holy Week when it is consecrated during the Renewal of Vows service by my bishop. John Dornheim
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 1, 2002
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          --- In Lutheran_Liturgy@y..., "Thomas W. Hoyt" <twhoyt@c...> wrote:
          > At 02:02 PM 12/1/02, Darel E. Paul sent:
          > >The rite of Holy Baptism in _Lutheran Book of Worship_ makes mention
          > >of the use of oil in making the sign of cross upon the forehead
          > >of the newly baptized:
          > >
          > >"The minister marks the sign of the cross on the forehead of each
          > >of the baptized. Oil prepared for this purpose may be used."
          > >{LBW, p. 124)
          >
          > Being an old Bible Thumper from way back - - please document the
          meaning of
          > "Oil prepared for this purpose".
          >
          > Thanks.

          I get my oil during Holy Week when it is consecrated during the
          Renewal of Vows service by my bishop.
          John Dornheim
        • Thomas W. Hoyt
          ... and - what would I do if I got NO bishop?!! Pastor Thomas W. Hoyt Holy Cross Lutheran Church Warda, TX This is IT - Warda
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 2, 2002
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            At 04:52 AM 12/2/2002 +0000, John Dornheim wrote:
            >--- In Lutheran_Liturgy@y..., "Thomas W. Hoyt" <twhoyt@c...> wrote:
            > > At 02:02 PM 12/1/02, Darel E. Paul sent:
            > > >The rite of Holy Baptism in _Lutheran Book of Worship_ makes mention
            > > >of the use of oil in making the sign of cross upon the forehead
            > > >of the newly baptized:
            > > >
            > > >"The minister marks the sign of the cross on the forehead of each
            > > >of the baptized. Oil prepared for this purpose may be used."
            > > >{LBW, p. 124)
            > >
            > > Being an old Bible Thumper from way back - - please document the
            >meaning of
            > > "Oil prepared for this purpose".
            > >
            > > Thanks.
            >
            >I get my oil during Holy Week when it is consecrated during the
            >Renewal of Vows service by my bishop.

            and - what would I do if I got NO bishop?!!







            Pastor Thomas W. Hoyt
            Holy Cross Lutheran Church
            Warda, TX
            This is IT - Warda
          • Darel E. Paul
            ... Correct me please if I am wrong (I often am) but the use of oil WITHOUT the existence of a bishop is nonsensical to my mind. While symbolizing other
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 2, 2002
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              --- In Lutheran_Liturgy@y..., "Thomas W. Hoyt" <twhoyt@c...> wrote:

              > >I get my oil during Holy Week when it is consecrated during the
              > >Renewal of Vows service by my bishop.
              >
              > and - what would I do if I got NO bishop?!!

              Correct me please if I am wrong (I often am) but the use of oil
              WITHOUT the existence of a bishop is nonsensical to my mind. While
              symbolizing other things, the oil in baptism is also symbolic
              of the unity of the baptized with the Church as she is manifest
              through her bishops.

              Of course, Lutheran use of oil in Holy Baptism is not the same
              as Orthodox chrismation -- in the latter, a baptism is not
              'complete' with it.

              Darel E. Paul
            • Thomas W. Hoyt
              ... nonsensical or not - I still got no Bishop. If I had a Bishop I would probably change churches until I didn t have one again. Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 2, 2002
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                At 02:28 PM 12/2/02, Darel E. Paul sent:
                >--- In Lutheran_Liturgy@y..., "Thomas W. Hoyt" <twhoyt@c...> wrote:
                >
                > > >I get my oil during Holy Week when it is consecrated during the
                > > >Renewal of Vows service by my bishop.
                > >
                > > and - what would I do if I got NO bishop?!!
                >
                >Correct me please if I am wrong (I often am) but the use of oil
                >WITHOUT the existence of a bishop is nonsensical to my mind. While
                >symbolizing other things, the oil in baptism is also symbolic
                >of the unity of the baptized with the Church as she is manifest
                >through her bishops.

                nonsensical or not - I still got no Bishop.

                If I had a Bishop I would probably change churches until I didn't have one
                again.




                Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt
                < REMEMBER THE ALAMO and GOLIAD - and Stephan, too >
                Holy Cross Lutheran Church
                Warda, TX
                This is IT - Warda
              • William Weedon
                ... Reginald Fuller (episocpalian) is reputed to have said in the Lutheran-Episcopal dialog: The problem with you Lutherans is not that you have no bishops;
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 2, 2002
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                  on 12/2/02 9:00 PM, Thomas W Hoyt at twhoyt@... wrote:

                  > If I had a Bishop I would probably change churches until I didn't have one
                  > again.

                  Reginald Fuller (episocpalian) is reputed to have said in the
                  Lutheran-Episcopal dialog: "The problem with you Lutherans is not that you
                  have no bishops; it is that you have too damned many."

                  ; )

                  William Weedon
                • Fr John W Fenton
                  + If I had a Bishop I would probably change churches until I didn t + have one + again. + + + Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt Have I been with you so long, Thomas, and
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 3, 2002
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                    + If I had a Bishop I would probably change churches until I didn't
                    + have one
                    + again.
                    +
                    +
                    + Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt


                    Have I been with you so long, Thomas, and still... :)

                    Every Lutheran Pastor, according to the Confessions and (in most cases)
                    ordination rite, is ordained as a bishop. Remember the words "I ordain *and
                    consecrate* you..."

                    Therefore, Thomas, you are your own bishop. (But now that I write this, a
                    shudder, for I know Thomas all too well...)




                    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                    Rev. Fr. John W. Fenton, S.T.M.

                    Zion Evangelical-Lutheran Church of Detroit
                    4305 N. Military Ave.
                    Detroit, MI 48210-2451

                    Voice: 313.894.7450

                    Email: FrFenton@...
                    ZIONNEWS-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    Web: www.ZionDetroit.org

                    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                  • John Dornheim
                    ... have one ... that you ... Actually, I think that the ECUSA has more bishops than the ELCA. John Dornheim
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 3, 2002
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                      --- In Lutheran_Liturgy@y..., William Weedon <wmweedon@m...> wrote:
                      > on 12/2/02 9:00 PM, Thomas W Hoyt at twhoyt@c... wrote:
                      >
                      > > If I had a Bishop I would probably change churches until I didn't
                      have one
                      > > again.
                      >
                      > Reginald Fuller (episocpalian) is reputed to have said in the
                      > Lutheran-Episcopal dialog: "The problem with you Lutherans is not
                      that you
                      > have no bishops; it is that you have too damned many."
                      >
                      > ; )
                      >
                      > William Weedon

                      Actually, I think that the ECUSA has more bishops than the ELCA.
                      John Dornheim
                    • John Dornheim
                      ... snip ... From the Occasional Services Book, p 102 The oil used for anointing is olive oil, to which an aromatic ingredient such as synthetic oil of
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 3, 2002
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                        --- In Lutheran_Liturgy@y..., "Thomas W. Hoyt" <twhoyt@c...> wrote:
                        > At 04:52 AM 12/2/2002 +0000, John Dornheim wrote:
                        snip
                        > > > Thanks.
                        > >
                        > >I get my oil during Holy Week when it is consecrated during the
                        > >Renewal of Vows service by my bishop.
                        >
                        > and - what would I do if I got NO bishop?!!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        From the Occasional Services Book, p 102
                        The oil used for anointing is olive oil, to which an aromatic
                        ingredient such as synthetic oil of cinnamon or oil of bergamot may
                        be added. The prayer may be said when the oil has been prepared:
                        Lord God, you bring healing to the sick through your Son, Jesus Christ
                        our Lord. May your blessings come upon all who are anointed with this
                        oil, that they may be freed from pain and illness and be made whole. Amen

                        John Dornheim
                      • William Weedon
                        ... John, I think the point he was making was that in Lutheran theology *every pastor is a bishop.* At least, that is the theology of the Book of Concord!
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 4, 2002
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                          on 12/3/02 11:01 PM, John Dornheim at john19@... wrote:

                          > Actually, I think that the ECUSA has more bishops than the ELCA.
                          > John Dornheim

                          John,

                          I think the point he was making was that in Lutheran theology *every pastor
                          is a bishop.* At least, that is the theology of the Book of Concord!

                          William Weedon, S.S.P.
                          Pastor, St. Paul's Lutheran Church
                          Hamel, IL USA

                          The haughty spirits, Lord, restrain
                          Who o'er Thy Church with might would reign
                          And always set forth something new
                          Devised to change Thy doctrine true. TLH #292, stz. 6
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