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Re: Two questions for my fellow Christian Anarchists

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  • Adam Clark
    A hearty welcome to the community Duane. I hope you find it useful. In terms of your first question, perhaps you could find this out by creating a poll and
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 29, 2012
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      A hearty welcome to the community Duane. I hope you find it useful.

      In terms of your first question, perhaps you could find this out by creating a poll and posting it to the community.

      As for your second question, I am a pacifist, so I am probably not the person you want to hear from.

      BTW I have found that quoting Bible versus rarely changes someone's opinion. It is something that has to come from within. I used to think "just war" and self-defense was the way to go. I only changed my mind after seeing the absurdity of the US and UKs military response to 9/11, a long period of contemplation/study and a spiritual experience. Prior to this, if anyone tried to convince me that just war and self-defense was not the way forward, I would have regarded them as foolish!

      All the best,

      Adam

      --- In Lost_Religion_of_Jesus@yahoogroups.com, "Duane" <duanehorton1994@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi everyone, I have two questions for all of you. 1. Aside from me, how many of the members of this group believe in self-defense? And how do you justify self-defense as being a Christian ideal?
      >
      > and 2. There's this guy at my church, who helps out with the youth group/youth ministry (of which I am a part) who was in the United States Marine Corps. I've been thinking on the draft, and what the Christian thing to do is, if I were to be drafted, which as of now I don't have to worry about but still best to be prepared. He technically didn't answer my question, as to what the Christian thing to do is, he simply said what he believes..which is that those who "dodge the draft" should either leave the country, or be shot. Which Bible verses would you use to respond to that? He's a pretty reasonable guy, so I'm pretty sure I can convince him, I just want a little help. Oh also, I would prefer that any arguments you guys suggest are not from a pacifist perspective, but one allowing force, in RESPONSE to aggression, though I won't be picky. :P Thanks in advance for any help you guys give me. :)
      >
    • Adam Clark
      There s this guy at my church, who helps out with the youth group/youth ministry (of which I am a part) who was in the United States Marine Corps. I ve been
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 30, 2012
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        "There's this guy at my church, who helps out with the youth group/youth ministry (of which I am a part) who was in the United States Marine Corps. I've been thinking on the draft, and what the Christian thing to do is, if I were to be drafted, which as of now I don't have to worry about but still best to be prepared. He technically didn't answer my question, as to what the Christian thing to do is, he simply said what he believes..which is that those who 'dodge the draft' should either leave the country, or be shot."

        If your friend had his way, that's exactly what would've happened to Ben Salmon. Unlike if you belonged to one of the peace churches (e.g. Quakers) there was no provision made for other conscientious objectors in WWI.

        Salmon, who was Catholic, was arrested for refusing to report for military induction. Despite not having been inducted, he was court-martialed at Camp Dodge, Iowa on July 24, 1918 and sentenced to death. The sentence was later changed to 25 years hard labor.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Salmon

        If you want to be "prepared" then it may be worth contemplating these questions that are typical at CO hearings:

        General:
        How and when did you decide against the military service?
        Why can't you arrange military service with your conscience?
        What prohibits you from serving in the military?

        Military service:
        Do you fear having to fight, or to use force?
        Do you want to abolish the army?
        What do you think about the phrase "We have the army to defend us, not to kill others"?

        Use of force:
        What would you do if you were attacked?
        What do you feel when you see that others are attacked?
        What is violence, exactly?
        Would you rather experience losses than having to use force?

        Beliefs:
        What do your beliefs say?
        Would you describe yourself as a pacifist?
        What basic values, besides objecting to violence, do you have?
        What entity gives you the certainty that your thinking and your feelings are right?

        Implementation of your beliefs:
        Why didn't you choose to go into prison if your conscience is that strong?
        Why didn't you use medical reasons to avoid military service?
        What do you actually do to further peace, or is your attitude the only peaceful thing about you?

        Personal:
        Who is in charge of defending your children in case of an armed conflict?
        Do you live your ethical principles inside your family?
        What books do you read?
        What do you demand from yourself?
        Are you merely a leader, a follower or a loner?

        God bless,

        Adam
      • Adam Clark
        Hi again Duane and all, I have just been recommended this book by the author. I have not read it but it looks interesting. Michael Snow was a military vet who
        Message 3 of 9 , May 31 8:59 AM
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          Hi again Duane and all,

          I have just been recommended this book by the author. I have not read it but it looks interesting. Michael Snow was a military vet who turned to Christian pacifism. First published in 1981, the book may have some answers to your questions.

          UK: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Christian-Pacifism-Fruit-Narrow-ebook/dp/B005RIKH62/

          US: http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Pacifism-Fruit-Narrow-ebook/dp/B005RIKH62/

          God bless,

          Adam

          --- In Lost_Religion_of_Jesus@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Clark" <panacea2013@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > A hearty welcome to the community Duane. I hope you find it useful.
          >
          > In terms of your first question, perhaps you could find this out by creating a poll and posting it to the community.
          >
          > As for your second question, I am a pacifist, so I am probably not the person you want to hear from.
          >
          > BTW I have found that quoting Bible versus rarely changes someone's opinion. It is something that has to come from within. I used to think "just war" and self-defense was the way to go. I only changed my mind after seeing the absurdity of the US and UKs military response to 9/11, a long period of contemplation/study and a spiritual experience. Prior to this, if anyone tried to convince me that just war and self-defense was not the way forward, I would have regarded them as foolish!
          >
          > All the best,
          >
          > Adam
          >
          > --- In Lost_Religion_of_Jesus@yahoogroups.com, "Duane" <duanehorton1994@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi everyone, I have two questions for all of you. 1. Aside from me, how many of the members of this group believe in self-defense? And how do you justify self-defense as being a Christian ideal?
          > >
          > > and 2. There's this guy at my church, who helps out with the youth group/youth ministry (of which I am a part) who was in the United States Marine Corps. I've been thinking on the draft, and what the Christian thing to do is, if I were to be drafted, which as of now I don't have to worry about but still best to be prepared. He technically didn't answer my question, as to what the Christian thing to do is, he simply said what he believes..which is that those who "dodge the draft" should either leave the country, or be shot. Which Bible verses would you use to respond to that? He's a pretty reasonable guy, so I'm pretty sure I can convince him, I just want a little help. Oh also, I would prefer that any arguments you guys suggest are not from a pacifist perspective, but one allowing force, in RESPONSE to aggression, though I won't be picky. :P Thanks in advance for any help you guys give me. :)
          > >
          >
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