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  • heeler06
    Hi guys i just wanted to know if someone could interpret something for me. In the ROTK movie where Gandalf and Pippin are sitting and talking about death.
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 1, 2004
      Hi guys i just wanted to know if someone could interpret something for
      me. In the ROTK movie where Gandalf and Pippin are sitting and talking
      about death. Gandalf talks about death as not being the end and that u
      pass a veil of glass and then u see white shores etc. He describes wat
      Frodo sees when he sails into the West with the elves(in the book).
      What does that symbolise?? I've always wondered what going to the Grey
      Havens and passing into the West meant. Is it representing death/heaven???
      Anyone with ideas please let me know!
      Thanx!
    • ANIL ERKAN
      Actually I also have question...I ve been pondering over Tolkien and if theres any link to the freemasons...I dont know if he was one but the all seeing eye in
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 1, 2004
        Actually I also have question...I've been pondering over Tolkien and
        if theres any link to the freemasons...I dont know if he was one but
        the all seeing eye in the book and movie really seem like the same
        symbol as in freemasonry.

        anybody any ideas? or any websites with info on this?




        On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 11:24:10 -0000, heeler06 <heeler06@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi guys i just wanted to know if someone could interpret something for
        > me. In the ROTK movie where Gandalf and Pippin are sitting and talking
        > about death. Gandalf talks about death as not being the end and that u
        > pass a veil of glass and then u see white shores etc. He describes wat
        > Frodo sees when he sails into the West with the elves(in the book).
        > What does that symbolise?? I've always wondered what going to the Grey
        > Havens and passing into the West meant. Is it representing death/heaven???
        > Anyone with ideas please let me know!
        > Thanx!
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • marshall hirst
        ... hes talking about the bird smaking into the glass window and the getting throne onto the wight shores (ie. the sands of the beach) and left for dead.
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 1, 2004
          --- heeler06 <heeler06@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Hi guys i just wanted to know if someone could
          > interpret something for
          > me. In the ROTK movie where Gandalf and Pippin are
          > sitting and talking
          > about death. Gandalf talks about death as not being
          > the end and that u
          > pass a veil of glass and then u see white shores
          > etc. He describes wat
          > Frodo sees when he sails into the West with the
          > elves(in the book).
          > What does that symbolise?? I've always wondered what
          > going to the Grey
          > Havens and passing into the West meant. Is it
          > representing death/heaven???
          > Anyone with ideas please let me know!
          > Thanx!
          >
          hes talking about the bird smaking into the glass
          window and the getting throne onto the "wight shores"
          (ie. the sands of the beach) and left for dead.



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        • silverbrightshadow@juno.com
          ... What? It sounds like death/heaven to me. Pippin asks Gandalf what it s like to die, and then Gandalf describes the white shores and everything, and there s
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 2, 2004
            > What does that symbolise?? I've always wondered what
            > going to the Grey
            > Havens and passing into the West meant. Is it
            > representing death/heaven???
            > Anyone with ideas please let me know!
            > Thanx!
            >
            >hes talking about the bird smaking into the glass
            >window and the getting throne onto the "wight shores"
            >(ie. the sands of the beach) and left for dead.

            What? It sounds like death/heaven to me. Pippin asks Gandalf what it's
            like to die, and then Gandalf describes the white shores and everything,
            and there's the song Into the West that describes it.
            Ainari�l Liss�s�l
            ~The dArk iS afRaid Of mE~
            <TASROE Mistress>
            Let us then cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.
            -Romans 13:12
          • marshall hirst
            ... MINE was an alternate look at the passage. ;) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
            Message 5 of 23 , Dec 2, 2004
              --- silverbrightshadow@... wrote:

              >
              > > What does that symbolise?? I've always wondered
              > what
              > > going to the Grey
              > > Havens and passing into the West meant. Is it
              > > representing death/heaven???
              > > Anyone with ideas please let me know!
              > > Thanx!
              > >
              > >hes talking about the bird smaking into the glass
              > >window and the getting throne onto the "wight
              > shores"
              > >(ie. the sands of the beach) and left for dead.
              >
              > What? It sounds like death/heaven to me. Pippin asks
              > Gandalf what it's
              > like to die, and then Gandalf describes the white
              > shores and everything,
              > and there's the song Into the West that describes
              > it.
              > Ainari�l Liss�s�l
              > ~The dArk iS afRaid Of mE~
              > <TASROE Mistress>
              > Let us then cast off the works of darkness and put
              > on the armor of light.
              > -Romans 13:12
              >
              MINE was an alternate look at the passage. ;)




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            • LadyAna5@aol.com
              In a message dated 12/1/2004 7:56:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, heeler06@yahoo.com.au writes: Hi guys i just wanted to know if someone could interpret
              Message 6 of 23 , Dec 2, 2004
                In a message dated 12/1/2004 7:56:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                heeler06@... writes:

                Hi guys i just wanted to know if someone could interpret something for
                me. In the ROTK movie where Gandalf and Pippin are sitting and talking
                about death. Gandalf talks about death as not being the end and that u
                pass a veil of glass and then u see white shores etc. He describes wat
                Frodo sees when he sails into the West with the elves(in the book).
                What does that symbolise?? I've always wondered what going to the Grey
                Havens and passing into the West meant. Is it representing death/heaven???
                Anyone with ideas please let me know!
                Thanx!//
                I always thought it was death/heaven as well, but I find their willingness
                to do so very interesting. Obviously, it's a heck of a lot better than what
                we mortals in this would might expect.(LOL!) I mean, a majority of the elves
                just decide it's and time and they leave. But taking into account their
                immortality (maybe tiring of it?), that might be expected. What intrigues me is
                Frodo doing so at the end of his quest. This makes me wonder if it's
                more/different than just death/heaven, because when someone goes through a very
                profound or extremely painful experience, death/heaven is usually not a good
                thing to recommend or wish for! (LOL!) Mind you, I *fully* understand his
                inability to be his old self again, but I don't understand making the drastic need
                to sail to the Grey Havens. Go figure.

                LadyAna
                "Dear Santa,
                YOU have the connections -
                You *know* which ~Elf~ I want under the tree
                - preferably naked, except for a bow on his bow!"


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • marshall hirst
                ... maybe he likes gray?? just throwing that out there. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile
                Message 7 of 23 , Dec 2, 2004
                  --- LadyAna5@... wrote:

                  >
                  > In a message dated 12/1/2004 7:56:30 A.M. Eastern
                  > Standard Time,
                  > heeler06@... writes:
                  >
                  > Hi guys i just wanted to know if someone could
                  > interpret something for
                  > me. In the ROTK movie where Gandalf and Pippin are
                  > sitting and talking
                  > about death. Gandalf talks about death as not being
                  > the end and that u
                  > pass a veil of glass and then u see white shores
                  > etc. He describes wat
                  > Frodo sees when he sails into the West with the
                  > elves(in the book).
                  > What does that symbolise?? I've always wondered
                  > what going to the Grey
                  > Havens and passing into the West meant. Is it
                  > representing death/heaven???
                  > Anyone with ideas please let me know!
                  > Thanx!//
                  > I always thought it was death/heaven as well, but I
                  > find their willingness
                  > to do so very interesting. Obviously, it's a heck
                  > of a lot better than what
                  > we mortals in this would might expect.(LOL!) I
                  > mean, a majority of the elves
                  > just decide it's and time and they leave. But
                  > taking into account their
                  > immortality (maybe tiring of it?), that might be
                  > expected. What intrigues me is
                  > Frodo doing so at the end of his quest. This makes
                  > me wonder if it's
                  > more/different than just death/heaven, because when
                  > someone goes through a very
                  > profound or extremely painful experience,
                  > death/heaven is usually not a good
                  > thing to recommend or wish for! (LOL!) Mind you,
                  > I *fully* understand his
                  > inability to be his old self again, but I don't
                  > understand making the drastic need
                  > to sail to the Grey Havens. Go figure.
                  >
                  > LadyAna
                  > "Dear Santa,
                  > YOU have the connections -
                  > You *know* which ~Elf~ I want under the tree
                  > - preferably naked, except for a bow on his bow!"
                  >
                  maybe he likes gray?? just throwing that out there.



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                • silverbrightshadow@juno.com
                  ... All-righty then. Ainariël Lissësúl ~The dArk iS afRaid Of mE~ Let us then cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of
                  Message 8 of 23 , Dec 3, 2004
                    > > What does that symbolise?? I've always wondered
                    > what
                    > > going to the Grey
                    > > Havens and passing into the West meant. Is it
                    > > representing death/heaven???
                    > > Anyone with ideas please let me know!
                    > > Thanx!
                    > >
                    > >hes talking about the bird smaking into the glass
                    > >window and the getting throne onto the "wight
                    > shores"
                    > >(ie. the sands of the beach) and left for dead.
                    >
                    > What? It sounds like death/heaven to me. Pippin asks
                    > Gandalf what it's
                    > like to die, and then Gandalf describes the white
                    > shores and everything,
                    > and there's the song Into the West that describes
                    > it.
                    > Ainari�l Liss�s�l
                    > >
                    >MINE was an alternate look at the passage. ;)

                    All-righty then.
                    Ainari�l Liss�s�l
                    ~The dArk iS afRaid Of mE~
                    <TASROE Mistress>
                    Let us then cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.
                    -Romans 13:12
                  • marshall hirst
                    ... thnks fur understanding!! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
                    Message 9 of 23 , Dec 3, 2004
                      --- silverbrightshadow@... wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > > > What does that symbolise?? I've always wondered
                      > > what
                      > > > going to the Grey
                      > > > Havens and passing into the West meant. Is it
                      > > > representing death/heaven???
                      > > > Anyone with ideas please let me know!
                      > > > Thanx!
                      > > >
                      > > >hes talking about the bird smaking into the glass
                      > > >window and the getting throne onto the "wight
                      > > shores"
                      > > >(ie. the sands of the beach) and left for dead.
                      > >
                      > > What? It sounds like death/heaven to me. Pippin
                      > asks
                      > > Gandalf what it's
                      > > like to die, and then Gandalf describes the white
                      > > shores and everything,
                      > > and there's the song Into the West that describes
                      > > it.
                      > > Ainari�l Liss�s�l
                      > > >
                      > >MINE was an alternate look at the passage. ;)
                      >
                      > All-righty then.
                      > Ainari�l Liss�s�l
                      > ~The dArk iS afRaid Of mE~
                      > <TASROE Mistress>
                      > Let us then cast off the works of darkness and put
                      > on the armor of light.
                      > -Romans 13:12
                      >
                      thnks fur understanding!!



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                    • luthienshandmaid
                      ... Ahhhh, this one I can answer. Tolkien was a strong Catholic (yes, he was, no groaning please). He was a member of a strong Christian circle of writers
                      Message 10 of 23 , Dec 5, 2004
                        --- In Lord-of-the-Rings-Group-Discussion@yahoogroups.com, ANIL ERKAN
                        <anilerkan@g...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Actually I also have question...I've been pondering over Tolkien and
                        > if theres any link to the freemasons...I dont know if he was one but
                        > the all seeing eye in the book and movie really seem like the same
                        > symbol as in freemasonry.
                        >
                        > anybody any ideas? or any websites with info on this?

                        Ahhhh, this one I can answer. Tolkien was a strong Catholic (yes, he
                        was, no groaning please). He was a member of a strong Christian
                        circle of writers called "The Inklings" which included C.S.Lewis. He
                        and Lewis were very close friends. You can also check out a book
                        called "Author of the Century" by Tom Shippey to get a better glimpse
                        in to Tolkien's mind. Much of Tolkien's thoughts are
                        considered "Augustine" but I am not familiar with Augustine, so I
                        can't comment further.

                        Tolkien himself denied his work as an allegory, and it is clear that
                        Gandalf was not meant to be a Jesus figure (as some may misinterpret
                        due to his ressurection). Gandalf's role, Creation, and the
                        questions about the heavens are found more in depth in "The
                        Simirillian."

                        LHM
                      • loveofhorses6@aol.com
                        ... Wow. I learn something new everyday. Thanks for sharing that interesting fact. Laurel [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 23 , Dec 6, 2004
                          > Ahhhh, this one I can answer.  Tolkien was a strong Catholic (yes, he
                          > was, no groaning please).  He was a member of a strong Christian
                          > circle of writers called "The Inklings" which included C.S.Lewis.  He
                          > and Lewis were very close friends.
                          >
                          Wow. I learn something new everyday. Thanks for sharing that interesting
                          fact.
                          Laurel



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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