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RE: [Loops_and_Telecoils] Telecoils & airplanes

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  • Michele Michaels
    Not all hearing aids have a manual volume control on them. Michele Michaels, B.A. Hard of Hearing Specialist Arizona Commission for the Deaf and the Hard of
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 14, 2009
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      Not all hearing aids have a manual volume control on them.

      Michele Michaels, B.A.
      Hard of Hearing Specialist
      Arizona Commission for the Deaf and the Hard of Hearing
      1400 W. Washington St., Room 126
      Phoenix, AZ 85007
      602-364-0007 v/tty
      1-800-352-8161 v/tty (520 & 928 area codes)
      602-542-3380 fax
      www.acdhh.org



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Loops_and_Telecoils@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Loops_and_Telecoils@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Oval Window Audio/Norman Lederman
      Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:55 AM
      To: Loops_and_Telecoils@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Loops_and_Telecoils] Telecoils & airplanes


      Good day David.

      Your point re: the standard loop field strength reference is well
      taken. Perhaps I did not communicate my point adequately. As you know,
      for hearing aid & ALS/ALD listeners, it all comes down to the ratio of
      the desired signal relative to background noise. For people who cannot
      hear well..."signal to noise ratio" is truly the bottom line. All
      hearing aid users know that the more they turn up their aids, the more
      background noise is increased, competing with the desired signal.
      Expressed another way...the greater the distance between the hearing aid
      user from the sound source...the more the background noise is amplified,
      competing with the desired signal.

      So, if we can increase the level of the desired input signal, we can
      turn down our hearing aids, which will not "reject", but certainly will
      deemphasize the background noise. True, the field strength of the input
      signal may exceed the reference standard, but as long as it is not
      overloading the telecoil circuit (heard as distortion), the end result
      should be positive.

      Sincerely,
      Norman
      Oval Window Audio





      David wrote:
      > I am very surprised by your comments.
      > It seems that in some of your comments you are implying that the
      > distance between the loop and the hearing aid has something to do with
      > rejecting interference. This is not the case!
      > The magnetic field needed at the T coil is 400mA/m peak. Period. It does
      > not make any difference if the magnetic field is generated by an
      > inductive silhouette product just beside the T coil, from a neck loop or
      > from a loop on the floor. For what it is worth the loop generating the
      > field could be wound around the moon - the magnetic field strength
      > needed at the hearing aid T coil is still the same!
      > If there are magnetic fields present then these will be heard as noise
      > from the T coil. The coil which generates the signal will not change the
      > magnetic noise at the T coil - basically the two are independent.
      > So whether the induction loop is a neck loop, an inductive silhouett or
      > if it is wound around the moon the ratio of the signal to the noise will
      > not change!
      > What you may be implying is that some products such as the inductive
      > silhouette may produce fields at the upper end of the tolerance for the
      > field strength. This would obviously improve the ratio of the signal to
      > the noise. However this could equally well be done by using a neckloop
      > (Maybe these things should be renamed, if they are placed around the
      > neck they are directly underneath the hearing aid and therefore there is
      > no or very little field. They should be worn over the shoulders to get
      > the best field at the hearing aid - maybe we should call them shoulder
      > loops!)
      > I must admit I have never measured the magnetic noise in an airplane -
      > maybe I should.
      > IMHO a sensible approach in an airplane would be a active neck
      > (shoulder) loop system and an adapter to enable it to be plugged into
      > the audio jacks by the seat. The only active neck loop I have tested was
      > the Geemarc CLA7 tLOOP Powered Neckloop and it seemed quite reasonable
      > in the tests I did.
      >
      > Regards
      >
      > David Norman
      >
      >
      > Oval Window Audio/Norman Lederman wrote:
      >
      >> Hi Judy,
      >>
      >> RE: using telecoils on board airplanes...
      >>
      >> Some years ago we were deeply involved in the research & development of
      >> assistive listening technologies for use on board airplanes. If anyone
      >> is interested in the history & outcome of the project, please let me know.
      >>
      >> Airplane electrical, communication & engine systems generate high levels
      >> of electromagnetic interference (EMI) that can render t-coils useless.
      >> But, it is worthwhile to attempt masking or overriding the EMI:
      >>
      >> 1. most dynamic stereo headphones (not little ear buds) generate a
      >> substantial amount of field so that if convenient, you can put them on
      >> over your hearing aids, switch your aids to T and adjust the arm
      >> rest/seat volume control for a strong enough signal that may cover up
      >> the ambient EMI. You may want to check with your neighboring passengers
      >> to see if your headphones are turned up too loud for them.
      >>
      >> 2. An alternative and totally silent approach would be to use an
      >> inductive silhouette product that plugs into your seat's headphone jack
      >> and rests behind your ear, transmitting a direct and strong field to
      >> your telecoil(s). HATIS and NoiZfree are two brands.
      >>
      >> 3. A neck loop is also worth trying, as a silent coupling approach. I
      >> list it third here because since it is at a distance from your hearing
      >> aids and more off axis from your telecoils, it may not work as well as
      >> the aforementioned suggestions.
      >>
      >> Norman
      >> Oval Window Audio
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Steve Barber
      In my opinion, not having a manual volume control should warrant criminal prosecution except in cases where the client is mentally or physically unable to
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 14, 2009
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        In my opinion, not having a manual volume control should warrant criminal prosecution except in cases where the client is mentally or physically unable to operate the control.
         
        I've got no problem with automated controls, but an aid without a manual override for anything automatic is only suitable for those completely unable to operate the override.  Yes, there are logical situations where that makes good sense ... in small children or mentally or physically challenged adults, but for the rest of us, making sure that automated functions have manual overrides is one of my first suggestions for anyone considering a hearing aid.
         
        The other first suggestion is for the user to understand the features and how to operate the aid as the situation requires ... including choosing the right programs and overriding errant automation.
         
        Even aids sold to people who can't reasonably operate manual overrides could have manual overrides but they could just be disabled for that customer.
         
        SteveB
         
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Loops_and_Telecoils@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Loops_and_Telecoils@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Michele Michaels
        Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:57 PM
        To: 'Loops_and_Telecoils@yahoogroups.com'
        Subject: RE: [Loops_and_Telecoils] Telecoils & airplanes

         

        Not all hearing aids have a manual volume control on them.

        Michele Michaels, B.A.
        Hard of Hearing Specialist
        Arizona Commission for the Deaf and the Hard of Hearing
        1400 W. Washington St., Room 126
        Phoenix, AZ 85007
        602-364-0007 v/tty
        1-800-352-8161 v/tty (520 & 928 area codes)
        602-542-3380 fax
        www.acdhh.org

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Loops_and_Telecoils @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Loops_and_Telecoils @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Oval Window Audio/Norman Lederman
        Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:55 AM
        To: Loops_and_Telecoils @yahoogroups. com
        Subject: Re: [Loops_and_Telecoil s] Telecoils & airplanes

        Good day David.

        Your point re: the standard loop field strength reference is well
        taken. Perhaps I did not communicate my point adequately. As you know,
        for hearing aid & ALS/ALD listeners, it all comes down to the ratio of
        the desired signal relative to background noise. For people who cannot
        hear well..."signal to noise ratio" is truly the bottom line. All
        hearing aid users know that the more they turn up their aids, the more
        background noise is increased, competing with the desired signal.
        Expressed another way...the greater the distance between the hearing aid
        user from the sound source...the more the background noise is amplified,
        competing with the desired signal.

        So, if we can increase the level of the desired input signal, we can
        turn down our hearing aids, which will not "reject", but certainly will
        deemphasize the background noise. True, the field strength of the input
        signal may exceed the reference standard, but as long as it is not
        overloading the telecoil circuit (heard as distortion), the end result
        should be positive.

        Sincerely,
        Norman
        Oval Window Audio

        David wrote:
        > I am very surprised by your comments.
        > It seems that in some of your comments you are implying that the
        > distance between the loop and the hearing aid has something to do with
        > rejecting interference. This is not the case!
        > The magnetic field needed at the T coil is 400mA/m peak. Period. It does
        > not make any difference if the magnetic field is generated by an
        > inductive silhouette product just beside the T coil, from a neck loop or
        > from a loop on the floor. For what it is worth the loop generating the
        > field could be wound around the moon - the magnetic field strength
        > needed at the hearing aid T coil is still the same!
        > If there are magnetic fields present then these will be heard as noise
        > from the T coil. The coil which generates the signal will not change the
        > magnetic noise at the T coil - basically the two are independent.
        > So whether the induction loop is a neck loop, an inductive silhouett or
        > if it is wound around the moon the ratio of the signal to the noise will
        > not change!
        > What you may be implying is that some products such as the inductive
        > silhouette may produce fields at the upper end of the tolerance for the
        > field strength. This would obviously improve the ratio of the signal to
        > the noise. However this could equally well be done by using a neckloop
        > (Maybe these things should be renamed, if they are placed around the
        > neck they are directly underneath the hearing aid and therefore there is
        > no or very little field. They should be worn over the shoulders to get
        > the best field at the hearing aid - maybe we should call them shoulder
        > loops!)
        > I must admit I have never measured the magnetic noise in an airplane -
        > maybe I should.
        > IMHO a sensible approach in an airplane would be a active neck
        > (shoulder) loop system and an adapter to enable it to be plugged into
        > the audio jacks by the seat. The only active neck loop I have tested was
        > the Geemarc CLA7 tLOOP Powered Neckloop and it seemed quite reasonable
        > in the tests I did.
        >
        > Regards
        >
        > David Norman
        >
        >
        > Oval Window Audio/Norman Lederman wrote:
        >
        >> Hi Judy,
        >>
        >> RE: using telecoils on board airplanes...
        >>
        >> Some years ago we were deeply involved in the research & development of
        >> assistive listening technologies for use on board airplanes. If anyone
        >> is interested in the history & outcome of the project, please let me know.
        >>
        >> Airplane electrical, communication & engine systems generate high levels
        >> of electromagnetic interference (EMI) that can render t-coils useless.
        >> But, it is worthwhile to attempt masking or overriding the EMI:
        >>
        >> 1. most dynamic stereo headphones (not little ear buds) generate a
        >> substantial amount of field so that if convenient, you can put them on
        >> over your hearing aids, switch your aids to T and adjust the arm
        >> rest/seat volume control for a strong enough signal that may cover up
        >> the ambient EMI. You may want to check with your neighboring passengers
        >> to see if your headphones are turned up too loud for them.
        >>
        >> 2. An alternative and totally silent approach would be to use an
        >> inductive silhouette product that plugs into your seat's headphone jack
        >> and rests behind your ear, transmitting a direct and strong field to
        >> your telecoil(s). HATIS and NoiZfree are two brands.
        >>
        >> 3. A neck loop is also worth trying, as a silent coupling approach. I
        >> list it third here because since it is at a distance from your hearing
        >> aids and more off axis from your telecoils, it may not work as well as
        >> the aforementioned suggestions.
        >>
        >> Norman
        >> Oval Window Audio
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------ --------- --------- ------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

        ------------ --------- --------- ------

        Yahoo! Groups Links

      • Judy G. Martin
        I agree with you 100%, Steve. I just took an elderly woman to buy new hearings aids and they ordered automatic hearing aids without t- coils after I
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 14, 2009
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          I agree with you 100%, Steve.   I just took an elderly woman to buy new hearings aids and they ordered automatic hearing aids without t-coils after I emphatically told them to give her an aid with at least a remote control and absolutely do include t-coils.   Right now my blood is boiling because I'm trying to do the right thing for her.    This woman is elderly but not incapacitated in any way so they have not heard the last of me.  

          Judy in Jax, Florida 


          On Sep 14, 2009, at 6:03 PM, Steve Barber wrote:


          In my opinion, not having a manual volume control should warrant criminal prosecution except in cases where the client is mentally or physically unable to operate the control.
           
          I've got no problem with automated controls, but an aid without a manual override for anything automatic is only suitable for those completely unable to operate the override.  Yes, there are logical situations where that makes good sense ... in small children or mentally or physically challenged adults, but for the rest of us, making sure that automated functions have manual overrides is one of my first suggestions for anyone considering a hearing aid.
           
          The other first suggestion is for the user to understand the features and how to operate the aid as the situation requires ... including choosing the right programs and overriding errant automation.
           
          Even aids sold to people who can't reasonably operate manual overrides could have manual overrides but they could just be disabled for that customer.
           
          SteveB
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Loops_and_Telecoils @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Loops_ and_Telecoils@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Michele Michaels
          Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:57 PM
          To: 'Loops_and_Telecoil s@yahoogroups. com'
          Subject: RE: [Loops_and_Telecoil s] Telecoils & airplanes

           

          Not all hearing aids have a manual volume control on them.

          Michele Michaels, B.A.
          Hard of Hearing Specialist
          Arizona Commission for the Deaf and the Hard of Hearing
          1400 W. Washington St., Room 126
          Phoenix, AZ 85007
          602-364-0007 v/tty
          1-800-352-8161 v/tty (520 & 928 area codes)
          602-542-3380 fax
          www.acdhh.org


           

        • Loretta Butler
          Judy: Hurray for you!! How dare that professional disregard what you told him/her! Loretta ... From: Judy G. Martin To: Loops_and_Telecoils@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 15, 2009
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            Judy:   Hurray for you!!   How dare that professional disregard what you told him/her!
             
            Loretta
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:15 PM
            Subject: Re: [Loops_and_Telecoils] Telecoils & airplanes

             

            I agree with you 100%, Steve.   I just took an elderly woman to buy new hearings aids and they ordered automatic hearing aids without t-coils after I emphatically told them to give her an aid with at least a remote control and absolutely do include t-coils.   Right now my blood is boiling because I'm trying to do the right thing for her.    This woman is elderly but not incapacitated in any way so they have not heard the last of me.  


            Judy in Jax, Florida 


            On Sep 14, 2009, at 6:03 PM, Steve Barber wrote:


            In my opinion, not having a manual volume control should warrant criminal prosecution except in cases where the client is mentally or physically unable to operate the control.
             
            I've got no problem with automated controls, but an aid without a manual override for anything automatic is only suitable for those completely unable to operate the override.  Yes, there are logical situations where that makes good sense ... in small children or mentally or physically challenged adults, but for the rest of us, making sure that automated functions have manual overrides is one of my first suggestions for anyone considering a hearing aid.
             
            The other first suggestion is for the user to understand the features and how to operate the aid as the situation requires ... including choosing the right programs and overriding errant automation.
             
            Even aids sold to people who can't reasonably operate manual overrides could have manual overrides but they could just be disabled for that customer.
             
            SteveB
             
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Loops_and_Telecoils @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Loops_ and_Telecoils@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Michele Michaels
            Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:57 PM
            To: 'Loops_and_Telecoil s@yahoogroups. com'
            Subject: RE: [Loops_and_Telecoil s] Telecoils & airplanes

             

            Not all hearing aids have a manual volume control on them.

            Michele Michaels, B.A.
            Hard of Hearing Specialist
            Arizona Commission for the Deaf and the Hard of Hearing
            1400 W. Washington St., Room 126
            Phoenix, AZ 85007
            602-364-0007 v/tty
            1-800-352-8161 v/tty (520 & 928 area codes)
            602-542-3380 fax
            www.acdhh.org


             

          • jpettey24
            Judy, you have my full support and I share your anger. Stay in the fight. In my many years dealing with audiologist, I have found too many who are too lazy
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 15, 2009
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              Judy, you have my full support and I share your anger. Stay in the fight. In my many years dealing with audiologist, I have found too many who are too lazy to deal with a T-switch. Their only interest is in selling hearing aids - if you don't buy, they do not care. It is rare to find one who is dedicated to the patient's welfare. I have been searching for years to find a caring one for my hearing aid and another for my cochlear implant. I think I have found them recently. Try dealing with two. It sounds if if you may have a legit complaint to the board of audiologist in your state. They have the power to fine or withdraw their license.

              Jess


              --- In Loops_and_Telecoils@yahoogroups.com, "Judy G. Martin" <judy40@...> wrote:
              >
              > I agree with you 100%, Steve. I just took an elderly woman to buy
              > new hearings aids and they ordered automatic hearing aids without t-
              > coils after I emphatically told them to give her an aid with at least
              > a remote control and absolutely do include t-coils. Right now my
              > blood is boiling because I'm trying to do the right thing for her.
              > This woman is elderly but not incapacitated in any way so they have
              > not heard the last of me.
              >
              > Judy in Jax, Florida
              >
              >
              > On Sep 14, 2009, at 6:03 PM, Steve Barber wrote:
              >
              > >
              > > In my opinion, not having a manual volume control should warrant
              > > criminal prosecution except in cases where the client is mentally or
              > > physically unable to operate the control.
              > >
              > > I've got no problem with automated controls, but an aid without a
              > > manual override for anything automatic is only suitable for those
              > > completely unable to operate the override. Yes, there are logical
              > > situations where that makes good sense ... in small children or
              > > mentally or physically challenged adults, but for the rest of us,
              > > making sure that automated functions have manual overrides is one of
              > > my first suggestions for anyone considering a hearing aid.
              > >
              > > The other first suggestion is for the user to understand the
              > > features and how to operate the aid as the situation requires ...
              > > including choosing the right programs and overriding errant
              > > automation.
              > >
              > > Even aids sold to people who can't reasonably operate manual
              > > overrides could have manual overrides but they could just be
              > > disabled for that customer.
              > >
              > > SteveB
              > >
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Loops_and_Telecoils@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Loops_and_Telecoils@yahoogroups.com
              > > ]On Behalf Of Michele Michaels
              > > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:57 PM
              > > To: 'Loops_and_Telecoils@yahoogroups.com'
              > > Subject: RE: [Loops_and_Telecoils] Telecoils & airplanes
              > >
              > >
              > > Not all hearing aids have a manual volume control on them.
              > >
              > > Michele Michaels, B.A.
              > > Hard of Hearing Specialist
              > > Arizona Commission for the Deaf and the Hard of Hearing
              > > 1400 W. Washington St., Room 126
              > > Phoenix, AZ 85007
              > > 602-364-0007 v/tty
              > > 1-800-352-8161 v/tty (520 & 928 area codes)
              > > 602-542-3380 fax
              > > www.acdhh.org
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Judy G. Martin
              Thank you, Loretta and Jess, for your words of support. The story gets better. After a strongly-worded e-mail indicating my extreme disappointment, the
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 15, 2009
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                Thank you, Loretta and Jess, for your words of support.  

                The story gets better.  After a strongly-worded e-mail indicating my extreme disappointment, the hearing aids are being returned and new BTEs, which include a T-coil, push button on aid for manual access and a remote control, are being ordered. The restocking fee will be waived.  I will work with my elderly friend to make sure she understands how to use everything.  

                Our Hearing Loss Association of Florida (HLA-FL) board and the board of the Florida Academy of Audiologists (FLAA) have  recently agreed to collaborate in order for them to understand what we, the consumers need and want.  We are excited about that.  

                Furthermore, one of the Professional Advisors on our board is the President-Elect of the American Academy of Audiology and we have her ear!   She recently returned from a conference at the Ida Institute in Denmark. Their challenge is to "provide greater insight and a more holistic understanding of the complex journey of hearing loss to better assist hearing care professionals and hearing impaired persons." (www.idainstitute.com)

                Our major thrust will be to encourage hearing professionals to include t-coils as much as possible. I realize we will be stymied by the fact that most new hearing aid users want to HIDE the fact that they can't hear, by saying "the smaller, the better."   

                Judy in Jax

                PS to Jesse: My cochlear implant audiologists at UF/Shands are just perfect and I consider myself so lucky.  On the other hand my hearing aid is analog (!) and about eight years old, so I'll be looking for a new audiologist for that too. I had the same hearing professional in NY for about 18 years before we moved to Florida five years ago.  


                On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:53 AM, jpettey24 wrote:


                Judy, you have my full support and I share your anger. Stay in the fight. In my many years dealing with audiologist, I have found too many who are too lazy to deal with a T-switch. Their only interest is in selling hearing aids - if you don't buy, they do not care. It is rare to find one who is dedicated to the patient's welfare. I have been searching for years to find a caring one for my hearing aid and another for my cochlear implant. I think I have found them recently. Try dealing with two. It sounds if if you may have a legit complaint to the board of audiologist in your state. They have the power to fine or withdraw their license.

                Jess


                --- In Loops_and_Telecoils @yahoogroups. com, "Judy G. Martin" <judy40@...> wrote:
                >
                > I agree with you 100%, Steve. I just took an elderly woman to buy 
                > new hearings aids and they ordered automatic hearing aids without t- 
                > coils after I emphatically told them to give her an aid with at least 
                > a remote control and absolutely do include t-coils. Right now my 
                > blood is boiling because I'm trying to do the right thing for her. 
                > This woman is elderly but not incapacitated in any way so they have 
                > not heard the last of me.
                > 
                > Judy in Jax, Florida
                > 
                > 
                > On Sep 14, 2009, at 6:03 PM, Steve Barber wrote:
                > 
                > >
                > > In my opinion, not having a manual volume control should warrant 
                > > criminal prosecution except in cases where the client is mentally or 
                > > physically unable to operate the control.
                > >
                > > I've got no problem with automated controls, but an aid without a 
                > > manual override for anything automatic is only suitable for those 
                > > completely unable to operate the override. Yes, there are logical 
                > > situations where that makes good sense ... in small children or 
                > > mentally or physically challenged adults, but for the rest of us, 
                > > making sure that automated functions have manual overrides is one of 
                > > my first suggestions for anyone considering a hearing aid.
                > >
                > > The other first suggestion is for the user to understand the 
                > > features and how to operate the aid as the situation requires ... 
                > > including choosing the right programs and overriding errant 
                > > automation.
                > >
                > > Even aids sold to people who can't reasonably operate manual 
                > > overrides could have manual overrides but they could just be 
                > > disabled for that customer.
                > >
                > > SteveB
                > >
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: Loops_and_Telecoils @yahoogroups. com[mailto:Loops_and_Telecoils @yahoogroups. com 
                > > ]On Behalf Of Michele Michaels
                > > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:57 PM
                > > To: 'Loops_and_Telecoil s@yahoogroups. com'
                > > Subject: RE: [Loops_and_Telecoil s] Telecoils & airplanes
                > >
                > >
                > > Not all hearing aids have a manual volume control on them.
                > >
                > > Michele Michaels, B.A.
                > > Hard of Hearing Specialist
                > > Arizona Commission for the Deaf and the Hard of Hearing
                > > 1400 W. Washington St., Room 126
                > > Phoenix, AZ 85007
                > > 602-364-0007 v/tty
                > > 1-800-352-8161 v/tty (520 & 928 area codes)
                > > 602-542-3380 fax
                > > www.acdhh.org
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >


              • judygmartin
                Loretta, I wrote in my email to the audiologist, It seems to me that I talked and no one listened. After seeing what had happened, I wondered had I written
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 15, 2009
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                  Loretta, I wrote in my email to the audiologist, "It seems to me that I talked and no one listened."  After seeing what had happened, I wondered had I written everything down, whether or not it would have helped.  But in talking to others, it seems that audiologists believe they know better and they really don't (unless they themselves have a hearing loss).  That's not to say they don't have the technical knowledge of their product, but it would behoove them to tell their clients/patients WHY they are making changes from what is requested.

                  To tell you the truth, I couldn't believe that I, an experienced advocate, failed my friend so miserably.  

                  Judy
                  --- In Loops_and_Telecoils@yahoogroups.com, "Loretta Butler" <lbutler864@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Judy: Hurray for you!! How dare that professional disregard what you told him/her!
                  >
                  > Loretta
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Judy G. Martin
                  > To: Loops_and_Telecoils@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:15 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [Loops_and_Telecoils] Telecoils & airplanes
                  >
                  >
                  > I agree with you 100%, Steve. I just took an elderly woman to buy new hearings aids and they ordered automatic hearing aids without t-coils after I emphatically told them to give her an aid with at least a remote control and absolutely do include t-coils. Right now my blood is boiling because I'm trying to do the right thing for her. This woman is elderly but not incapacitated in any way so they have not heard the last of me.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Judy in Jax, Florida
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Sep 14, 2009, at 6:03 PM, Steve Barber wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > In my opinion, not having a manual volume control should warrant criminal prosecution except in cases where the client is mentally or physically unable to operate the control.
                  >
                  > I've got no problem with automated controls, but an aid without a manual override for anything automatic is only suitable for those completely unable to operate the override. Yes, there are logical situations where that makes good sense ... in small children or mentally or physically challenged adults, but for the rest of us, making sure that automated functions have manual overrides is one of my first suggestions for anyone considering a hearing aid.
                  >
                  > The other first suggestion is for the user to understand the features and how to operate the aid as the situation requires ... including choosing the right programs and overriding errant automation.
                  >
                  > Even aids sold to people who can't reasonably operate manual overrides could have manual overrides but they could just be disabled for that customer.
                  >
                  > SteveB
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Loops_and_Telecoils@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Loops_and_Telecoils@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Michele Michaels
                  > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:57 PM
                  > To: 'Loops_and_Telecoils@yahoogroups.com'
                  > Subject: RE: [Loops_and_Telecoils] Telecoils & airplanes
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Not all hearing aids have a manual volume control on them.
                  >
                  > Michele Michaels, B.A.
                  > Hard of Hearing Specialist
                  > Arizona Commission for the Deaf and the Hard of Hearing
                  > 1400 W. Washington St., Room 126
                  > Phoenix, AZ 85007
                  > 602-364-0007 v/tty
                  > 1-800-352-8161 v/tty (520 & 928 area codes)
                  > 602-542-3380 fax
                  > www.acdhh.org
                  >
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