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Think Time / Transaction Response Times

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  • Alice Hitchkoff
    Hi All,   I have following queries regarding think times and transaction response times:   As per my knowledege, We add think times after end of transaction
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 1, 2010
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      Hi All,
       
      I have following queries regarding think times and transaction response times:
       
      As per my knowledege, We add think times after end of transaction and before start of next transaction so that they are not added in response times.
       
      1. Does it add to the scenario elapse times?
       
      2. Does it help in time out, that is if think time is added page will be rendered during think time and it will not time out?
       
      3. I have read in one of the forums that controller scenario does not add think times it also stated that while script execution in controller pages are not being rendered in controller. Then where does it help as all sceanrios are executed in controller?where does think time help?
       
      4. How do we actually simulate a real user so that a real response time can be noted? As we have an order creation request. The script executed in 45 sec in controller for one user. But we added think times so that a real environment is established. Manually order creation takes 3 minutes. So we added think times so that 45 sec are increased to 3 minutes. Now controller shows 3 minutes. But as i discussed above if think time is not added in controller calculation why the scenario of 1 order execution by 1 user completed in 3 minutes?
       
      I will appreciate if my confusion is cleared through this platform.
       
      Thanks,
      Alice




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • James Pulley
      1. Not if your pacing model is derived from a load profile and the total or think-time+system=time
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 1, 2010
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        1. Not if your pacing model is derived from a load profile and the total
        or think-time+system=time<pacing interval

        2. No. Think time is time between keyboard and chair and has zero
        bearing on anything being rendered which is a GUI bound operation

        3. Think time is not added by vugen. Think time is not added by the
        controller. Think time is controlled by the run time settings for the
        virtual user. It is generally not recommended to run virtual users on
        the same host as the controller. So why does think time "help" as you
        say. Well, you have two computing units involved in your business
        process interaction (minimally). One is silicon based, addressing the
        request as sent to it by the client application.

        The other computing unit is carbon based. It reads what is on the
        screen, processes the information, fills in the forms, takes five for a
        smoke break, visits the gentlemens or ladies lounge, converses with the
        next cube mate, etc,... all of which contributes to the delays imposed
        by the organic computing unit which we term as think time. If you
        remove think time then you overdrive the application to a degree not
        possible in production because no carbon based organic computing units
        can process and contribute to the business process in such a rapid
        fashion. This is load testing 101, which implies that your management
        has not bothered to send you to training or to provide you with an
        effective mentor to aid in your professional development. If your
        management will not allow you to attend product training or provide you
        with effective mentoring for your first three to four engagement then
        you would be wise to question their commitment to success in this
        profession. It would be no different than if they threw someone with
        excel experience into the middle of a financial audit.

        4. Load Modeling is a critical skill, which includes pacing and modeling
        the think time behavior of your user population. This is not a skill
        which is typically taught in product training for LoadRunner and this is
        a skill which is expected to be a part of a mentoring program. You
        might also consider that well qualified requirements will be bound to a
        definition of load which ~should~ include a load model as that
        definition. It sounds a lot like you are lost because some critical
        foundation points are missing in your training. Now is time to go to
        your management to address this....or (at the absolute minimum) go out
        and hire the most experienced professional you can find to work with you
        on this project. Shadow this person as if you are their newly acquired
        puppy. Be as a sponge to record their processes and practices with
        tools and management of the project. While this will never replace a
        formal training and mentoring program, it will provide a modicum of a
        foundation that you can build from over the course of future projects.

        James Pulley, http://www.loadrunnerbythehour.com/PricingMatrix

        On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 13:12 -0800, Alice Hitchkoff wrote:
        > Hi All,
        >
        > I have following queries regarding think times and transaction response times:
        >
        > As per my knowledege, We add think times after end of transaction and before start of next transaction so that they are not added in response times.
        >
        > 1. Does it add to the scenario elapse times?
        >
        > 2. Does it help in time out, that is if think time is added page will be rendered during think time and it will not time out?
        >
        > 3. I have read in one of the forums that controller scenario does not add think times it also stated that while script execution in controller pages are not being rendered in controller. Then where does it help as all sceanrios are executed in controller?where does think time help?
        >
        > 4. How do we actually simulate a real user so that a real response time can be noted? As we have an order creation request. The script executed in 45 sec in controller for one user. But we added think times so that a real environment is established. Manually order creation takes 3 minutes. So we added think times so that 45 sec are increased to 3 minutes. Now controller shows 3 minutes. But as i discussed above if think time is not added in controller calculation why the scenario of 1 order execution by 1 user completed in 3 minutes?
        >
        > I will appreciate if my confusion is cleared through this platform.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Alice
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Alice Hitchkoff
        1 - OK 2 - I just wanted to confirm this because I was asked to add think times by our dev team within transactions. 3 - I know think time is neither added by
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 2, 2010
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          1 - OK
          2 - I just wanted to confirm this because I was asked to add think times by our dev team within transactions.
          3 - I know think time is neither added by controller nor vugen and controlled by runtime settings.
          4 - Thanks for suggesting and replying.

          --- On Wed, 12/1/10, James Pulley <loadrunner-lists@...> wrote:


          From: James Pulley <loadrunner-lists@...>
          Subject: Re: [LoadRunner] Think Time / Transaction Response Times
          To: LoadRunner@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 10:01 PM


           



          1. Not if your pacing model is derived from a load profile and the total
          or think-time+system=time<pacing interval

          2. No. Think time is time between keyboard and chair and has zero
          bearing on anything being rendered which is a GUI bound operation

          3. Think time is not added by vugen. Think time is not added by the
          controller. Think time is controlled by the run time settings for the
          virtual user. It is generally not recommended to run virtual users on
          the same host as the controller. So why does think time "help" as you
          say. Well, you have two computing units involved in your business
          process interaction (minimally). One is silicon based, addressing the
          request as sent to it by the client application.

          The other computing unit is carbon based. It reads what is on the
          screen, processes the information, fills in the forms, takes five for a
          smoke break, visits the gentlemens or ladies lounge, converses with the
          next cube mate, etc,... all of which contributes to the delays imposed
          by the organic computing unit which we term as think time. If you
          remove think time then you overdrive the application to a degree not
          possible in production because no carbon based organic computing units
          can process and contribute to the business process in such a rapid
          fashion. This is load testing 101, which implies that your management
          has not bothered to send you to training or to provide you with an
          effective mentor to aid in your professional development. If your
          management will not allow you to attend product training or provide you
          with effective mentoring for your first three to four engagement then
          you would be wise to question their commitment to success in this
          profession. It would be no different than if they threw someone with
          excel experience into the middle of a financial audit.

          4. Load Modeling is a critical skill, which includes pacing and modeling
          the think time behavior of your user population. This is not a skill
          which is typically taught in product training for LoadRunner and this is
          a skill which is expected to be a part of a mentoring program. You
          might also consider that well qualified requirements will be bound to a
          definition of load which ~should~ include a load model as that
          definition. It sounds a lot like you are lost because some critical
          foundation points are missing in your training. Now is time to go to
          your management to address this....or (at the absolute minimum) go out
          and hire the most experienced professional you can find to work with you
          on this project. Shadow this person as if you are their newly acquired
          puppy. Be as a sponge to record their processes and practices with
          tools and management of the project. While this will never replace a
          formal training and mentoring program, it will provide a modicum of a
          foundation that you can build from over the course of future projects.

          James Pulley, http://www.loadrunnerbythehour.com/PricingMatrix

          On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 13:12 -0800, Alice Hitchkoff wrote:
          > Hi All,
          >
          > I have following queries regarding think times and transaction response times:
          >
          > As per my knowledege, We add think times after end of transaction and before start of next transaction so that they are not added in response times.
          >
          > 1. Does it add to the scenario elapse times?
          >
          > 2. Does it help in time out, that is if think time is added page will be rendered during think time and it will not time out?
          >
          > 3. I have read in one of the forums that controller scenario does not add think times it also stated that while script execution in controller pages are not being rendered in controller. Then where does it help as all sceanrios are executed in controller?where does think time help?
          >
          > 4. How do we actually simulate a real user so that a real response time can be noted? As we have an order creation request. The script executed in 45 sec in controller for one user. But we added think times so that a real environment is established. Manually order creation takes 3 minutes. So we added think times so that 45 sec are increased to 3 minutes. Now controller shows 3 minutes. But as i discussed above if think time is not added in controller calculation why the scenario of 1 order execution by 1 user completed in 3 minutes?
          >
          > I will appreciate if my confusion is cleared through this platform.
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Alice
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >











          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • rajesh r
          Hi Alice, Please find my remarks to your queries... To Point1:- Yes it is added in the scenario elapsed time To Point2:- No, it wont be added in the timeout.
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 22, 2010
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            Hi Alice,

            Please find my remarks to your queries...
            To Point1:- Yes it is added in the scenario elapsed time
            To Point2:- No, it wont be added in the timeout. During think time, the Vuser
            will be in idle state waiting for the completion of think time to start the next
            transaction.
            To Point3/4:- The think times placed between the transactions will act as the
            user input time for a specific transaction/page, this is how we emulate end user
            experience as user seeks some time to enter all the input fields of that page.
            As stated in point1, it will be added in the scenario elapsed time but not in
            the transaction response times as the transaction response time does mean the
            time taken between request & response. Request is only send to the server once
            you enter all the input & press Enter/Next/Submit buttons, so think time is the
            one which shouldnt cover in the transaction response time. i.e. the time taken
            by the server to respond to your request.


            Cheers,
            Rajesh Ravilisetti
            From: Alice Hitchkoff <alicehitchkoff@...>
            To: LoadRunner@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thu, 2 December, 2010 2:42:26 AM
            Subject: [LoadRunner] Think Time / Transaction Response Times


            Hi All,

            I have following queries regarding think times and transaction response times:

            As per my knowledege, We add think times after end of transaction and before
            start of next transaction so that they are not added in response times.


            1. Does it add to the scenario elapse times?

            2. Does it help in time out, that is if think time is added page will be
            rendered during think time and it will not time out?

            3. I have read in one of the forums that controller scenario does not add think
            times it also stated that while script execution in controller pages are not
            being rendered in controller. Then where does it help as all sceanrios are
            executed in controller?where does think time help?

            4. How do we actually simulate a real user so that a real response time can be
            noted? As we have an order creation request. The script executed in 45 sec in
            controller for one user. But we added think times so that a real environment is
            established. Manually order creation takes 3 minutes. So we added think times so
            that 45 sec are increased to 3 minutes. Now controller shows 3 minutes. But as i
            discussed above if think time is not added in controller calculation why the
            scenario of 1 order execution by 1 user completed in 3 minutes?

            I will appreciate if my confusion is cleared through this platform.

            Thanks,
            Alice

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rajiv Nanduani
            Hi Rajesh, Excellent reply for 3/4 . Thanks. But for Point2: I think it would be added because Vuser will be in idle state waiting for the completion of think
            Message 5 of 7 , May 28 6:59 PM
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              Hi Rajesh,

              Excellent reply for 3/4 . Thanks.

              But for Point2: I think it would be added because Vuser will be in idle
              state waiting for the completion of think time to start the next
              transaction. means i am not sending further request. suppose if my session
              time out is 20 seconds and Vuser in idle state in case think time is 21
              seconds.

              Please correct me if I am wrong

              On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:18 AM, rajesh r <r_rajesh84@...> wrote:

              >
              >
              > Hi Alice,
              >
              > Please find my remarks to your queries...
              > To Point1:- Yes it is added in the scenario elapsed time
              > To Point2:- No, it wont be added in the timeout. During think time, the
              > Vuser
              > will be in idle state waiting for the completion of think time to start the
              > next
              > transaction.
              > To Point3/4:- The think times placed between the transactions will act as
              > the
              > user input time for a specific transaction/page, this is how we emulate end
              > user
              > experience as user seeks some time to enter all the input fields of that
              > page.
              > As stated in point1, it will be added in the scenario elapsed time but not
              > in
              > the transaction response times as the transaction response time does mean
              > the
              > time taken between request & response. Request is only send to the server
              > once
              > you enter all the input & press Enter/Next/Submit buttons, so think time is
              > the
              > one which shouldnt cover in the transaction response time. i.e. the time
              > taken
              > by the server to respond to your request.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Rajesh Ravilisetti
              > From: Alice Hitchkoff <alicehitchkoff@...>
              > To: LoadRunner@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thu, 2 December, 2010 2:42:26 AM
              > Subject: [LoadRunner] Think Time / Transaction Response Times
              >
              >
              > Hi All,
              >
              > I have following queries regarding think times and transaction response
              > times:
              >
              > As per my knowledege, We add think times after end of transaction and
              > before
              > start of next transaction so that they are not added in response times.
              >
              > 1. Does it add to the scenario elapse times?
              >
              > 2. Does it help in time out, that is if think time is added page will be
              > rendered during think time and it will not time out?
              >
              > 3. I have read in one of the forums that controller scenario does not add
              > think
              > times it also stated that while script execution in controller pages are
              > not
              > being rendered in controller. Then where does it help as all sceanrios are
              > executed in controller?where does think time help?
              >
              > 4. How do we actually simulate a real user so that a real response time can
              > be
              > noted? As we have an order creation request. The script executed in 45 sec
              > in
              > controller for one user. But we added think times so that a real
              > environment is
              > established. Manually order creation takes 3 minutes. So we added think
              > times so
              > that 45 sec are increased to 3 minutes. Now controller shows 3 minutes. But
              > as i
              > discussed above if think time is not added in controller calculation why
              > the
              > scenario of 1 order execution by 1 user completed in 3 minutes?
              >
              > I will appreciate if my confusion is cleared through this platform.
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Alice
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >



              --

              Regards

              *RAJIV <http://testeverythingrajiv.com/>
              KUMAR<http://rajivkumarnandvani.wordpress.com/>
              NANDVANI <http://testeverythingqtp.blogspot.com>*

              http://rajivkumarnandvani.wordpress.com
              http://testeverythingqtp.blogspot.com/


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jim Howell
              it depends which timeout you re thinking of there is a timeout on responses in LR generally set to 120 seconds, think time will NOT affect this as for the
              Message 6 of 7 , May 31 12:28 AM
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                it depends which timeout you're thinking of

                there is a timeout on responses in LR generally set to 120 seconds, think
                time will NOT affect this

                as for the session timeout on the server, if you have a session timeout of
                10 minutes and a think time of 900 seconds, then the next call will fail as
                the session will have timed out on the server

                think time is very very important, especially making sure that it is
                realistic

                if you have an action that has log in and log off in it then the length of
                the server session is completely down to response time and think time,
                pacing time will be outside any sessions and concurrency will be affected



                On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 3:59 AM, Rajiv Nanduani <
                rajivkumarnandvani@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > Hi Rajesh,
                >
                > Excellent reply for 3/4 . Thanks.
                >
                > But for Point2: I think it would be added because Vuser will be in idle
                > state waiting for the completion of think time to start the next
                > transaction. means i am not sending further request. suppose if my session
                > time out is 20 seconds and Vuser in idle state in case think time is 21
                > seconds.
                >
                > Please correct me if I am wrong
                >
                > On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:18 AM, rajesh r <r_rajesh84@...> wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > Hi Alice,
                > >
                > > Please find my remarks to your queries...
                > > To Point1:- Yes it is added in the scenario elapsed time
                > > To Point2:- No, it wont be added in the timeout. During think time, the
                > > Vuser
                > > will be in idle state waiting for the completion of think time to start
                > the
                > > next
                > > transaction.
                > > To Point3/4:- The think times placed between the transactions will act as
                > > the
                > > user input time for a specific transaction/page, this is how we emulate
                > end
                > > user
                > > experience as user seeks some time to enter all the input fields of that
                > > page.
                > > As stated in point1, it will be added in the scenario elapsed time but
                > not
                > > in
                > > the transaction response times as the transaction response time does mean
                > > the
                > > time taken between request & response. Request is only send to the server
                > > once
                > > you enter all the input & press Enter/Next/Submit buttons, so think time
                > is
                > > the
                > > one which shouldnt cover in the transaction response time. i.e. the time
                > > taken
                > > by the server to respond to your request.
                > >
                > > Cheers,
                > > Rajesh Ravilisetti
                > > From: Alice Hitchkoff <alicehitchkoff@...>
                > > To: LoadRunner@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Thu, 2 December, 2010 2:42:26 AM
                > > Subject: [LoadRunner] Think Time / Transaction Response Times
                > >
                > >
                > > Hi All,
                > >
                > > I have following queries regarding think times and transaction response
                > > times:
                > >
                > > As per my knowledege, We add think times after end of transaction and
                > > before
                > > start of next transaction so that they are not added in response times.
                > >
                > > 1. Does it add to the scenario elapse times?
                > >
                > > 2. Does it help in time out, that is if think time is added page will be
                > > rendered during think time and it will not time out?
                > >
                > > 3. I have read in one of the forums that controller scenario does not add
                > > think
                > > times it also stated that while script execution in controller pages are
                > > not
                > > being rendered in controller. Then where does it help as all sceanrios
                > are
                > > executed in controller?where does think time help?
                > >
                > > 4. How do we actually simulate a real user so that a real response time
                > can
                > > be
                > > noted? As we have an order creation request. The script executed in 45
                > sec
                > > in
                > > controller for one user. But we added think times so that a real
                > > environment is
                > > established. Manually order creation takes 3 minutes. So we added think
                > > times so
                > > that 45 sec are increased to 3 minutes. Now controller shows 3 minutes.
                > But
                > > as i
                > > discussed above if think time is not added in controller calculation why
                > > the
                > > scenario of 1 order execution by 1 user completed in 3 minutes?
                > >
                > > I will appreciate if my confusion is cleared through this platform.
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > > Alice
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > --
                >
                > Regards
                >
                > *RAJIV <http://testeverythingrajiv.com/>
                > KUMAR<http://rajivkumarnandvani.wordpress.com/>
                > NANDVANI <http://testeverythingqtp.blogspot.com>*
                >
                > http://rajivkumarnandvani.wordpress.com
                > http://testeverythingqtp.blogspot.com/
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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