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RE: [livingworld] You were expecting???

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  • Tyler Bannister
    ... Wisconsin, ... How many players does it take be disruptive to the local flavour ? And how long before you reach that number of players? -- Tyler
    Message 1 of 30 , Sep 1 10:48 AM
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      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Rick Bruner [mailto:brunerr@...]
      > Sent: September 1, 2000 1:18 PM
      > To: livingworld@egroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [livingworld] You were expecting???
      >
      >
      > That would not change, you play out of region ftf or on line...the cost
      > would be 2 TU's. simple and easy. On line is just another way to
      > bring LW to as many folks as possible. I don't think that having 50-75
      > people from out of region playing our local events on line is going to
      > be any more disruptive to local flavor then the 200-300 people we are
      > going to get coming for ftf out of region play from Ohio, Michigan,
      Wisconsin,
      > Missouri, Iowa, Kentucky and other states.
      >
      > Rick Bruner

      How many players does it take be "disruptive to the local flavour"?
      And how long before you reach that number of players?

      --
      Tyler
    • Neal Noey
      ... Now we are degsignating people to ruin online gaming. Sorry Rick, I just couldn t resist. ROTFLMHO. I hope you think that was funny. I know what you
      Message 2 of 30 , Sep 1 10:56 AM
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        Rick Bruner wrote:

        Again, this depends on the triad.  Involvement can range from very hands on,
        to oversight for the person(s) degsignated to ruin on line gaming for their
        region.
        Now we are "degsignating" people to "ruin" online gaming.
        Sorry Rick, I just couldn't resist.  ROTFLMHO.
        I hope you think that was funny.  I know what you were trying to say, and I agree with you.  Hope you have a nice day.
        Neal

      • kjohnson@komint.com
        I ll play devil s advocate: What does local flavor have to do with who plays? The local flavor is in the adventure style and writing, not the players. And
        Message 3 of 30 , Sep 1 11:08 AM
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          I'll play devil's advocate:

          What does "local flavor" have to do with who plays? The local flavor is in the
          adventure style and writing, not the players. And for that matter (refering to
          others posts here), what does local flavor have to do with special items? Its
          ridiculous to say that a module with good "local flavor" will have as its basis,
          some item which defines the flavor of the mod. If I see mods that base their
          local flavor on special items I will rate those poorly. A good, enjoyable mod is
          one that is well-written and exudes the atmosphere of the region in which it is
          set.

          KJ






          "Tyler Bannister" <tyler@...> on 09/01/2000 12:48:47 PM

          Please respond to livingworld@egroups.com

          To: livingworld@egroups.com
          cc: (bcc: Kelly Johnson/HQ/KAIC)

          Subject: RE: [livingworld] You were expecting???



          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Rick Bruner [mailto:brunerr@...]
          > Sent: September 1, 2000 1:18 PM
          > To: livingworld@egroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [livingworld] You were expecting???
          >
          >
          > That would not change, you play out of region ftf or on line...the cost
          > would be 2 TU's. simple and easy. On line is just another way to
          > bring LW to as many folks as possible. I don't think that having 50-75
          > people from out of region playing our local events on line is going to
          > be any more disruptive to local flavor then the 200-300 people we are
          > going to get coming for ftf out of region play from Ohio, Michigan,
          Wisconsin,
          > Missouri, Iowa, Kentucky and other states.
          >
          > Rick Bruner

          How many players does it take be "disruptive to the local flavour"?
          And how long before you reach that number of players?

          --
          Tyler
        • Rick Bruner
          An interesting question.....how many is too many....the CO6 has seen fit to allow any number of people to play out of region ftf, so it must be up to the
          Message 4 of 30 , Sep 1 11:43 AM
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            An interesting question.....how many is too many....the CO6 has seen fit to
            allow any number of people to play out of region ftf, so it must be up to
            the regional triad and the authors to maintain the local plot
            lines......that is, after all the hype about on line players skewing the
            local plot lines, how it has to be regardless whether or not on line
            regional play is ever allowed.


            Rick Bruner

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Tyler Bannister" <tyler@...>
            To: <livingworld@egroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 12:48 PM
            Subject: RE: [livingworld] You were expecting???


            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: Rick Bruner [mailto:brunerr@...]
            > > Sent: September 1, 2000 1:18 PM
            > > To: livingworld@egroups.com
            > > Subject: Re: [livingworld] You were expecting???
            > >
            > >
            > > That would not change, you play out of region ftf or on line...the cost
            > > would be 2 TU's. simple and easy. On line is just another way to
            > > bring LW to as many folks as possible. I don't think that having 50-75
            > > people from out of region playing our local events on line is going to
            > > be any more disruptive to local flavor then the 200-300 people we are
            > > going to get coming for ftf out of region play from Ohio, Michigan,
            > Wisconsin,
            > > Missouri, Iowa, Kentucky and other states.
            > >
            > > Rick Bruner
            >
            > How many players does it take be "disruptive to the local flavour"?
            > And how long before you reach that number of players?
            >
            > --
            > Tyler
            >
            >
            >
          • Rick Bruner
            ... I hope you think that was funny. I know what you were trying to say, and I agree with you. Hope you have a nice day. ... Now even the men of God take
            Message 5 of 30 , Sep 1 11:49 AM
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              >Now we are "degsignating" people to "ruin" online gaming.
              >Sorry
              Rick, I just couldn't resist.  ROTFLMHO.
              I> hope you think that was funny.  I know what you were trying to say, and I agree with >you.  Hope you have a nice day.
              >Neal
               
              Now even the "men of God" take shots at me.....;)
               
              For anyone that reads this, for Neal the "H" in ROTFLMHO is for Hiney, cuz Neal doesn't use those "other" words.  Have a good one Neal.
            • Rick Bruner
              that is my point also KJ.....though the argument that out of area on line players would harm the local flavor was used as a reason to disallow on line play of
              Message 6 of 30 , Sep 1 11:51 AM
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                that is my point also KJ.....though the argument that out of area on line
                players would harm the local flavor was used as a reason to disallow on line
                play of regional mods.

                Rick Bruner

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <kjohnson@...>
                To: <livingworld@egroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 1:08 PM
                Subject: RE: [livingworld] You were expecting???


                >
                >
                > I'll play devil's advocate:
                >
                > What does "local flavor" have to do with who plays? The local flavor is in
                the
                > adventure style and writing, not the players. And for that matter
                (refering to
                > others posts here), what does local flavor have to do with special items?
                Its
                > ridiculous to say that a module with good "local flavor" will have as its
                basis,
                > some item which defines the flavor of the mod. If I see mods that base
                their
                > local flavor on special items I will rate those poorly. A good, enjoyable
                mod is
                > one that is well-written and exudes the atmosphere of the region in which
                it is
                > set.
                >
                > KJ
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > "Tyler Bannister" <tyler@...> on 09/01/2000 12:48:47 PM
                >
                > Please respond to livingworld@egroups.com
                >
                > To: livingworld@egroups.com
                > cc: (bcc: Kelly Johnson/HQ/KAIC)
                >
                > Subject: RE: [livingworld] You were expecting???
                >
                >
                >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: Rick Bruner [mailto:brunerr@...]
                > > Sent: September 1, 2000 1:18 PM
                > > To: livingworld@egroups.com
                > > Subject: Re: [livingworld] You were expecting???
                > >
                > >
                > > That would not change, you play out of region ftf or on line...the cost
                > > would be 2 TU's. simple and easy. On line is just another way to
                > > bring LW to as many folks as possible. I don't think that having 50-75
                > > people from out of region playing our local events on line is going to
                > > be any more disruptive to local flavor then the 200-300 people we are
                > > going to get coming for ftf out of region play from Ohio, Michigan,
                > Wisconsin,
                > > Missouri, Iowa, Kentucky and other states.
                > >
                > > Rick Bruner
                >
                > How many players does it take be "disruptive to the local flavour"?
                > And how long before you reach that number of players?
                >
                > --
                > Tyler
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Danielle Ostach
                The fact is that if people want to cheat and break the rules, they can and will cheat and break the rules. We can make it difficult, we can punish them if we
                Message 7 of 30 , Sep 1 11:56 AM
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                  The fact is that if people want to cheat and break the rules, they can and
                  will cheat and break the rules. We can make it difficult, we can punish them
                  if we catch them, we can even actively seek them, but regardless of what we
                  do, if someone wants to cheat, they can and will and there isn't a damn
                  thing we can do that will stop all cases.

                  In any organization there has to be a level of trust or things fall apart. I
                  know cheaters, I have seen cheaters change dice rolls, copy certs and all
                  sorts of other fun and games. You know what? I don't really try to let it
                  bother me unless they are sitting at my table dominating things so I am a
                  mere spectator where I wanted to be roleplaying. I have to trust that people
                  are doing the right thing in general or the RPGA would fall apart completely
                  with everyone backstabbing others to avoid getting backstabbed themselves.
                  If six friends in six regions conspire to order the 48 modules a year for
                  those 6 regions and play them online among themselves using two characters
                  each (time units limit after all), there isn't much we can do to stop it.
                  The best we can do is put out the rules and TRUST that 99% of the membership
                  will follow them. It is a sad reality, but in our society, the criminals
                  have all the advantages of initiative (+40 on every init roll) and we can
                  only rely on trying to discover things after the fact. Most people won't
                  break the rules though and it is for them that we make the rules and try to
                  keep things fair.

                  Danielle
                • Tyler Bannister
                  ... Actually no, local flavour is in the consistancy of the style, the writing, the plot, the portrayal of the world, and the portrayal of the people in that
                  Message 8 of 30 , Sep 1 12:28 PM
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                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: kjohnson@... [mailto:kjohnson@...]
                    >
                    > I'll play devil's advocate:
                    >
                    > What does "local flavor" have to do with who plays? The local
                    > flavor is in the adventure style and writing, not the players.

                    Actually no, local flavour is in the consistancy of the style, the writing,
                    the plot, the portrayal of the world, and the portrayal of the people in
                    that world. It depends not only on the writer, but on the plot director,
                    the judge, and the other players. Most of all it depends on consistency.
                    That consistency is required to make the place feel familiar, and give it an
                    identifiable flavour. Too many people who are unfamiliar with the flavour
                    will mask it, so that none of them can recognize it.

                    Role-playing is more than creating a role and just playing it. It is a
                    living story, with different levels of authors. Each player's role need to
                    tailored to the setting and the game. Otherwise the story looses it
                    cohesiveness and the simple enjoyment of playing wanes. So characters that
                    fit in the story, and mesh nicely with the other characters, help to create
                    the dramatic tension that makes the story enjoyable. If the players don't
                    know or don't understand the setting, then they can't play their role
                    satisfactory and everyone's enjoyment suffers.

                    According to some of my sources, at one point the Living City had a pretty
                    good Forgotten Realms feel to it. However, it has completely lost that
                    feeling, IMO. Now there are a number of reasons for this loss, but I think
                    that a significant part of it is based on the size of the campaign. With so
                    many players and authors, is has become too difficult to create any type of
                    consistency between the adventures.

                    To say that players don't effect the flavour is to relegate them to
                    observers in a game where they're supposed to dictate the actions of the
                    heroes.

                    --
                    Tyler
                  • Rick Bruner
                    I would have to disagree with you Tyler...we have some members in states where they have access to three regions in under the time it takes me to get to my
                    Message 9 of 30 , Sep 1 12:31 PM
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                      I would have to disagree with you Tyler...we have some members in states
                      where they have access to three regions in under the time it takes me to get
                      to my local game day. In addition, there is nothing to prevent out of
                      region players from sitting together at the same table.....and frankly the
                      whole structure of LW encourages people to play out of region as that is the
                      only way they can use their allotment of TU's. The TU's are both a limit
                      and for some a goad...to play all they can. Frankly, I have never used my
                      allotments of TU's in any year, but for some this is pretty important.


                      Rick Bruner


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Tyler Bannister" <tyler@...>
                      To: <livingworld@egroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 2:43 PM
                      Subject: RE: [livingworld] You were expecting???


                      >
                      > >
                      > > An interesting question.....how many is too many....the CO6 has
                      > > seen fit to allow any number of people to play out of region ftf,
                      > > so it must be up to the regional triad and the authors to maintain
                      > > the local plot lines......that is, after all the hype about on line
                      > > players skewing the local plot lines, how it has to be regardless
                      > > whether or not on line regional play is ever allowed.
                      > >
                      > > Rick Bruner
                      >
                      > Your assumptions are incorrect. The Circle has not seen fit to allow any
                      > number of people to play out of region face to face. They have rather
                      > relied on expense and time requirements to reduce the number of out of
                      > region players to a level that is sustainable. Furthermore, they
                      > face-to-face requirements effectively mix the out of region players in
                      with
                      > regional players, allowing the out of region players a chance to catch the
                      > regional flavour with the aid of the other players.
                      >
                      > You have ignored the simple fact that the demographics of on-line players
                      > differ significantly from those at a gamesday or convention. With the
                      > exception of Winter Fantasy and GenCon, most real-world conventions and
                      most
                      > real-world games days will draw a majority of their players from the
                      region
                      > in which they are run, because it costs money and time to travel to the
                      > region. On the other hand an on-line convention may not draw any players
                      > from the region whose modules it offers, because the costs in time and
                      money
                      > are fixed regardless of the real-world location of the computer the
                      on-line
                      > convention organizer. Thus the real-world limitations that serve to
                      protect
                      > the regional flavour are completely removed in an on-line enviroment.
                      >
                      > --
                      > Tyler
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Tyler Bannister
                      ... Your assumptions are incorrect. The Circle has not seen fit to allow any number of people to play out of region face to face. They have rather relied on
                      Message 10 of 30 , Sep 1 12:43 PM
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                        >
                        > An interesting question.....how many is too many....the CO6 has
                        > seen fit to allow any number of people to play out of region ftf,
                        > so it must be up to the regional triad and the authors to maintain
                        > the local plot lines......that is, after all the hype about on line
                        > players skewing the local plot lines, how it has to be regardless
                        > whether or not on line regional play is ever allowed.
                        >
                        > Rick Bruner

                        Your assumptions are incorrect. The Circle has not seen fit to allow any
                        number of people to play out of region face to face. They have rather
                        relied on expense and time requirements to reduce the number of out of
                        region players to a level that is sustainable. Furthermore, they
                        face-to-face requirements effectively mix the out of region players in with
                        regional players, allowing the out of region players a chance to catch the
                        regional flavour with the aid of the other players.

                        You have ignored the simple fact that the demographics of on-line players
                        differ significantly from those at a gamesday or convention. With the
                        exception of Winter Fantasy and GenCon, most real-world conventions and most
                        real-world games days will draw a majority of their players from the region
                        in which they are run, because it costs money and time to travel to the
                        region. On the other hand an on-line convention may not draw any players
                        from the region whose modules it offers, because the costs in time and money
                        are fixed regardless of the real-world location of the computer the on-line
                        convention organizer. Thus the real-world limitations that serve to protect
                        the regional flavour are completely removed in an on-line enviroment.

                        --
                        Tyler
                      • kjohnson@komint.com
                        Tyler Bannister on 09/01/2000 02:28:41 PM ... Actually no, local flavour is in the consistancy of the style, the writing, the plot, the
                        Message 11 of 30 , Sep 1 12:44 PM
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                          "Tyler Bannister" <tyler@...> on 09/01/2000 02:28:41 PM


                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: kjohnson@... [mailto:kjohnson@...]
                          >
                          > I'll play devil's advocate:
                          >
                          > What does "local flavor" have to do with who plays? The local
                          > flavor is in the adventure style and writing, not the players.

                          Actually no, local flavour is in the consistancy of the style, the writing,
                          the plot, the portrayal of the world, and the portrayal of the people in
                          that world. It depends not only on the writer, but on the plot director,
                          the judge, and the other players. Most of all it depends on consistency.
                          That consistency is required to make the place feel familiar, and give it an
                          identifiable flavour. Too many people who are unfamiliar with the flavour
                          will mask it, so that none of them can recognize it.

                          If the players don't
                          know or don't understand the setting, then they can't play their role
                          satisfactory and everyone's enjoyment suffers.

                          << So you assume "outsiders" won't have a clue about your region? Why would they
                          come play in your region other than the fact that they enjoy the story line that
                          the regional Triad has created. And those that do show up for the "really cool
                          stuff" probably know nothing of their own region because their main focus is
                          hoarding certs.

                          If this whole campaign is going to become segregated with the different regions
                          trying to "maintain their consistency" instead of trying to create a Big
                          Picture, then I want nothing to do with it. I might as well continue to
                          segregate myself completely and stay within the confines of my home game.>>



                          --
                          Tyler
                        • Neal Noey
                          I thought the h in ROTFLMHO stood for rolling on the floor laughing my heart out. Learn something new everyday. Thanks Rick Neal
                          Message 12 of 30 , Sep 1 1:53 PM
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                            I thought the "h" in ROTFLMHO stood for "rolling on the floor laughing my heart out."
                            Learn something new everyday.
                            Thanks Rick
                            Neal

                            Rick Bruner wrote:

                            Now even the "men of God" take shots at me.....;) For anyone that reads this, for Neal the "H" in ROTFLMHO is for Hiney, cuz Neal doesn't use those "other" words.  Have a good one Neal.

                          • EdGibson1@aol.com
                            In a message dated 9/1/00 4:09:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Yes, the reason for regional administration is so players can feel like that have an effect on
                            Message 13 of 30 , Sep 1 2:32 PM
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                              In a message dated 9/1/00 4:09:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                              kjohnson@... writes:

                              > If this whole campaign is going to become segregated with the different
                              > regions trying to "maintain their consistency" instead of trying to create
                              > a Big Picture, then I want nothing to do with it.

                              Yes, the reason for regional administration is so players can feel like that
                              have an effect on what's happening in the game. If you don't care for that,
                              maybe you would prefer LC where there PCs aren't allowed to interfere
                              with the "big picture" as envisioned by the campaign staff.

                              Ed
                            • Allister Huggins
                              ... ... ... ... KJ, my understanding was that the Triads would base the direction of their regional campaign on the outcome of the
                              Message 14 of 30 , Sep 1 2:40 PM
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                                kjohnson@... wrote:


                                > What does "local flavor" have to do with who plays? The local flavor is in the
                                > adventure style and writing, not the players. And for that matter (refering to

                                <snip>

                                > local flavor on special items I will rate those poorly. A good, enjoyable mod is
                                > one that is well-written and exudes the atmosphere of the region in which it is

                                > "Tyler Bannister" <tyler@...> on 09/01/2000 12:48:47 PM

                                > > From: Rick Bruner [mailto:brunerr@...]

                                <snip>

                                > > bring LW to as many folks as possible. I don't think that having 50-75
                                > > people from out of region playing our local events on line is going to
                                > > be any more disruptive to local flavor then the 200-300 people we are
                                > > going to get coming for ftf out of region play from Ohio, Michigan,

                                <snip>

                                > How many players does it take be "disruptive to the local flavour"?
                                > And how long before you reach that number of players?


                                KJ, my understanding was that the Triads would base the direction of
                                their regional campaign on the outcome of the modules. If the majority
                                of players are from outside of that region, they won't have a vested
                                interest in the direction that the campaign takes place. However, this
                                is a non-issue as I've seen the pro-online crowd advocate for the
                                placement of modules online that the Triad approves, thus a Triad
                                doesn't have to place a "critical" campaign junction module online.

                                Allister H.
                              • Bryan Shouse
                                Yeah, I was of the opinion ROTFLMHO was Rolling On The Floor, Laughing My Head Off. Bryan ... p.s. Sorry you cant see to what I m replying... hmm neither can
                                Message 15 of 30 , Sep 1 3:54 PM
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                                  Yeah, I was of the opinion ROTFLMHO was Rolling On The Floor, Laughing
                                  My Head Off.

                                  Bryan

                                  Neal Noey wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)
                                  > Encoding: 7bit

                                  p.s. Sorry you cant see to what I'm replying... hmm neither can I.
                                  Losy HTML stuff!
                                • dargall345@aol.com
                                  ... writing, ... an ... Online or not, it will be the triad s job to make sure the player knows what that flavor is. A standard idea is a page or so handout
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Sep 2 12:31 AM
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                                    In a message dated 9/1/00 7:20:45 PM !!!First Boot!!!, tyler@... writes:

                                    > >
                                    > > What does "local flavor" have to do with who plays? The local
                                    > > flavor is in the adventure style and writing, not the players.
                                    >
                                    > Actually no, local flavour is in the consistancy of the style, the
                                    writing,
                                    > the plot, the portrayal of the world, and the portrayal of the people in
                                    > that world. It depends not only on the writer, but on the plot director,
                                    > the judge, and the other players. Most of all it depends on consistency.
                                    > That consistency is required to make the place feel familiar, and give it
                                    an
                                    > identifiable flavour. Too many people who are unfamiliar with the flavour
                                    > will mask it, so that none of them can recognize it.
                                    Online or not, it will be the triad's job to make sure the player knows
                                    what that flavor is. A standard idea is a page or so handout to be given to
                                    all players in the region. It would be no great problem to put this online
                                    and available to each new player before he plays his 1st game in the region.
                                    But your argument hinges on floods of players who show up for an
                                    adventure or 2 and then vanish. This is not likely to be the case,
                                    particularly over time. Rather, the player will test the region, find it
                                    satisfactory, and play a number of events there. He thus has a good chance
                                    to learn of what is going on, indeed a better one than the more casual types
                                    of ftf players who do not play the full set.

                                    >
                                    > Role-playing is more than creating a role and just playing it. It is a
                                    > living story, with different levels of authors. Each player's role need
                                    to
                                    > tailored to the setting and the game. Otherwise the story looses it
                                    > cohesiveness and the simple enjoyment of playing wanes. So characters that
                                    > fit in the story, and mesh nicely with the other characters, help to create
                                    > the dramatic tension that makes the story enjoyable. If the players don't
                                    > know or don't understand the setting, then they can't play their role
                                    > satisfactory and everyone's enjoyment suffers.
                                    As a later poster points out, there is also the matter of liking the
                                    setting. If the player doesn't, insisting he play in it is not going to have
                                    happy results for the setting. Letting him play online in a region he
                                    prefers is going to be much superior.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To say that players don't effect the flavour is to relegate them to
                                    > observers in a game where they're supposed to dictate the actions of the
                                    > heroes.
                                    As long as the triads are formulating 5 year plans out of sight of the
                                    players, the players are not going to be affecting the flavor. [Letting the
                                    players in on the planning and decisions is likely a good idea, but it is not
                                    a common idea among triads.]
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > Tyler
                                    >
                                    >
                                    David Argall
                                    dargall345@...
                                  • Thenodrin@aol.com
                                    In a message dated 9/1/00 2:04:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... (refering ... their ... it ... Items do not make an atmosphere, despite what some senario
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Sep 2 9:28 AM
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                                      In a message dated 9/1/00 2:04:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                      kjohnson@... writes:

                                      > I'll play devil's advocate:
                                      >
                                      > What does "local flavor" have to do with who plays? The local flavor is in
                                      > the
                                      > adventure style and writing, not the players. And for that matter
                                      (refering
                                      > to
                                      > others posts here), what does local flavor have to do with special items?
                                      > Its
                                      > ridiculous to say that a module with good "local flavor" will have as its
                                      > basis,
                                      > some item which defines the flavor of the mod. If I see mods that base
                                      their
                                      > local flavor on special items I will rate those poorly. A good, enjoyable
                                      > mod is
                                      > one that is well-written and exudes the atmosphere of the region in which
                                      it
                                      > is
                                      > set.
                                      >
                                      > KJ

                                      Items do not make an atmosphere, despite what some senario authours think.

                                      By "regional feel" I think what is being meant is the following. There are
                                      certain things that people from a region will know, that others may not.
                                      Certain recurring nouns that people who mostly play within the region will
                                      recognize.

                                      For example, if the NPC "Mike the Mad" is mentioned in a module that is being
                                      played totally by new PCs and out of region PCs, there is likely no reason
                                      that they would know that, in the previous three regional events, it has been
                                      revealed that Mike is not actually insane, but is considered so by the people
                                      of Tumberalla who exiled him ten years ago for experimenting magically on a
                                      noble's favoured pet.

                                      By now, the story of the event has been exagerated to the point that the
                                      party hears that Mad Mike ritualistically sacrificed said noble to increase
                                      his magical might. Regional players would know this is untrue, and there
                                      would be fun and interesting discussions while the party debated whether or
                                      not to trust Mike's information, or indeed whether or not to talk to him at
                                      all. A table of out of region PCs (such as those likely to be formed online,
                                      but not likely to be formed at a convention or game day where the number of
                                      regional players probably outnumbers the out of region players) may even
                                      believe the local rumour mill and go and kill Mike, thus never learning that
                                      the Princess Mononoke is not in the Xvart village of Kabinterra at all, but
                                      is being held prisoner by a secret cult in Tumberalla itself.

                                      Theno
                                      Member Googleplex of the Free Xvart Society
                                      Relatively unknown everywhere else
                                    • Tyler Bannister
                                      ... get ... And this is unfair because they live close to the border of their state and you don t? Seriously, this tiny minority of players is a little
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Sep 2 10:03 AM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        > From: Rick Bruner <brunerr@...>
                                        >
                                        > I would have to disagree with you Tyler...we have some members in states
                                        > where they have access to three regions in under the time it takes me to
                                        get
                                        > to my local game day.

                                        And this is unfair because they live close to the border of their state
                                        and you don't? Seriously, this tiny minority of players is a little luckier
                                        than others, but that's all.

                                        > In addition, there is nothing to prevent out of region players from
                                        sitting
                                        > together at the same table...

                                        Except, of course, the person doing the mustering.

                                        > and frankly the whole structure of LW encourages people to play out of
                                        > region as that is the only way they can use their allotment of TU's. The
                                        >TU's are both a limit and for some a goad...to play all they can.

                                        There are plenty of ways for characters to use their TUs. There's
                                        researching spells, learning spells, creating items (magical or not), simply
                                        working to earn a little extra gold, there's also joining any number of
                                        campaign wide, or regional organizations, and then there will be activities
                                        tied to each of those organizations.

                                        > Frankly, I have never used my
                                        > allotments of TU's in any year, but for some this is pretty important.
                                        >
                                        > Rick Bruner

                                        It will be sufficiently easy for them to do so.

                                        --
                                        Tyler
                                      • Rick Bruner
                                        Tyler, The whole point of this was that some people have a perceived advantage due to geography, some people might have a perceived advantage due to on line
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Sep 2 2:37 PM
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                                          Tyler,

                                          The whole point of this was that some people have a perceived advantage due
                                          to geography, some people might have a perceived advantage due to on line
                                          gaming..neither is an overwhelming advantage so if we can agree on that,
                                          then all of your other points fall in line as well.

                                          Rick Bruner



                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "Tyler Bannister" <tyler@...>
                                          To: <livingworld@egroups.com>
                                          Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2000 12:03 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [livingworld] You were expecting???


                                          >
                                          > > From: Rick Bruner <brunerr@...>
                                          > >
                                          > > I would have to disagree with you Tyler...we have some members in states
                                          > > where they have access to three regions in under the time it takes me to
                                          > get
                                          > > to my local game day.
                                          >
                                          > And this is unfair because they live close to the border of their
                                          state
                                          > and you don't? Seriously, this tiny minority of players is a little
                                          luckier
                                          > than others, but that's all.
                                          >
                                          > > In addition, there is nothing to prevent out of region players from
                                          > sitting
                                          > > together at the same table...
                                          >
                                          > Except, of course, the person doing the mustering.
                                          >
                                          > > and frankly the whole structure of LW encourages people to play out of
                                          > > region as that is the only way they can use their allotment of TU's.
                                          The
                                          > >TU's are both a limit and for some a goad...to play all they can.
                                          >
                                          > There are plenty of ways for characters to use their TUs. There's
                                          > researching spells, learning spells, creating items (magical or not),
                                          simply
                                          > working to earn a little extra gold, there's also joining any number of
                                          > campaign wide, or regional organizations, and then there will be
                                          activities
                                          > tied to each of those organizations.
                                          >
                                          > > Frankly, I have never used my
                                          > > allotments of TU's in any year, but for some this is pretty important.
                                          > >
                                          > > Rick Bruner
                                          >
                                          > It will be sufficiently easy for them to do so.
                                          >
                                          > --
                                          > Tyler
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • dargall345@aol.com
                                          In a message dated 9/2/00 4:29:32 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Thenodrin@aol.com ... are ... a ... increase ... or ... at ... online, ... of ... that ... but ... Now
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Sep 3 12:13 AM
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                                            In a message dated 9/2/00 4:29:32 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Thenodrin@...
                                            writes:

                                            >
                                            > By "regional feel" I think what is being meant is the following. There
                                            are
                                            > certain things that people from a region will know, that others may not.
                                            > Certain recurring nouns that people who mostly play within the region will
                                            > recognize.
                                            >
                                            > For example, if the NPC "Mike the Mad" is mentioned in a module that is
                                            > being
                                            > played totally by new PCs and out of region PCs, there is likely no reason
                                            > that they would know that, in the previous three regional events, it has
                                            > been
                                            > revealed that Mike is not actually insane, but is considered so by the
                                            > people
                                            > of Tumberalla who exiled him ten years ago for experimenting magically on
                                            a
                                            > noble's favoured pet.
                                            >
                                            > By now, the story of the event has been exagerated to the point that the
                                            > party hears that Mad Mike ritualistically sacrificed said noble to
                                            increase
                                            > his magical might. Regional players would know this is untrue, and there
                                            > would be fun and interesting discussions while the party debated whether
                                            or
                                            > not to trust Mike's information, or indeed whether or not to talk to him
                                            at
                                            > all. A table of out of region PCs (such as those likely to be formed
                                            online,
                                            > but not likely to be formed at a convention or game day where the number
                                            of
                                            > regional players probably outnumbers the out of region players) may even
                                            > believe the local rumour mill and go and kill Mike, thus never learning
                                            that
                                            > the Princess Mononoke is not in the Xvart village of Kabinterra at all,
                                            but
                                            > is being held prisoner by a secret cult in Tumberalla itself.
                                            Now you have some design problems here. There is information that only
                                            certain players, whether online or not, should know. If the truth about Mad
                                            Mike was in RM 5, 6, & 7, and the players used different PC in those
                                            adventures than they are using here, proper roleplay requires the PC should
                                            be ignorant of the truth, whether or not the players know it. So some very
                                            experienced players should want to attack Mad Mike.
                                            We also have the inexperienced local player. We can't assume the
                                            players played in the relevant adventures. In many cases, they will not have.
                                            On the other hand, we may well want to avoid trouble by having other PC
                                            hear the truth about Mad Mike from those who ran in those adventures. But in
                                            that case, the true state of affairs should be right in the module.
                                            In net, there seems no compelling difference here between ftf & online.

                                            >
                                            > Theno
                                            > Member Googleplex of the Free Xvart Society
                                            > Relatively unknown everywhere else
                                            >
                                          • kjohnson@komint.com
                                            Why would you assume that a table of outsiders would know nothing about the region that they wish to play in? The same interest that brought them to the
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Sep 5 7:50 AM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Why would you assume that a table of "outsiders" would know nothing about the
                                              region that they wish to play in? The same interest that brought them to the
                                              region would make them just as likely as a hometowner to know the story and
                                              history of the region. Such assumptions have clouded this whole discussion from
                                              the beginning. Its time everyone took some advice from Benny Hill as to what
                                              happens when you assume.............

                                              KJ






                                              Thenodrin@... on 09/02/2000 11:28:29 AM

                                              Items do not make an atmosphere, despite what some senario authours think.

                                              By "regional feel" I think what is being meant is the following. There are
                                              certain things that people from a region will know, that others may not.
                                              Certain recurring nouns that people who mostly play within the region will
                                              recognize.

                                              For example, if the NPC "Mike the Mad" is mentioned in a module that is being
                                              played totally by new PCs and out of region PCs, there is likely no reason
                                              that they would know that, in the previous three regional events, it has been
                                              revealed that Mike is not actually insane, but is considered so by the people
                                              of Tumberalla who exiled him ten years ago for experimenting magically on a
                                              noble's favoured pet.

                                              By now, the story of the event has been exagerated to the point that the
                                              party hears that Mad Mike ritualistically sacrificed said noble to increase
                                              his magical might. Regional players would know this is untrue, and there
                                              would be fun and interesting discussions while the party debated whether or
                                              not to trust Mike's information, or indeed whether or not to talk to him at
                                              all. A table of out of region PCs (such as those likely to be formed online,
                                              but not likely to be formed at a convention or game day where the number of
                                              regional players probably outnumbers the out of region players) may even
                                              believe the local rumour mill and go and kill Mike, thus never learning that
                                              the Princess Mononoke is not in the Xvart village of Kabinterra at all, but
                                              is being held prisoner by a secret cult in Tumberalla itself.

                                              Theno
                                              Member Googleplex of the Free Xvart Society
                                              Relatively unknown everywhere else
                                            • Thenodrin@aol.com
                                              In a message dated Tue, 5 Sep 2000 10:46:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kjohnson@komint.com writes:
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Sep 5 8:39 AM
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                                                In a message dated Tue, 5 Sep 2000 10:46:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kjohnson@... writes:

                                                <<
                                                Why would you assume that a table of "outsiders" would know nothing about the region that they wish to play in? The same interest that brought them to the region would make them just as likely as a hometowner to know the story and history of the region. Such assumptions have clouded this whole discussion from the beginning. Its time everyone took some advice from Benny Hill as to what happens when you assume.............

                                                KJ
                                                >>

                                                Because, most RPGAers that I have met are gaming junkies and play whatever is available. There is no reason to expect a table of people who have never played Veluna modules to know the Veluna politics. They might, but they might not.

                                                If the event is played in Ohio (Veluna region) then there is a strong possibility, in fact, a near definate possibility that someone at the table is from Veluna (Ohio) and has played the other events. Even if just one of the six.

                                                Also, while I somewhat agree with you about the "assume" cliche, it is also about time that people realized that Benny Hill (and Galligher, later) were comedians, and this was a joke and a pun. It does not automatically remove the word or the concept from the English language. (Pet peeve, could you notice?)

                                                Theno
                                                Member Googleplex of the Free Xvart Society
                                                Relatively unknown everywhere else
                                              • Tyler Bannister
                                                ... Then, why, oh why, are you assuming they will? -- Tyler
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Sep 5 8:41 AM
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                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                  > From: kjohnson@... [mailto:kjohnson@...]
                                                  > Sent: September 5, 2000 10:51 AM
                                                  > To: livingworld@egroups.com
                                                  > Subject: Re: [livingworld] You were expecting???
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Why would you assume that a table of "outsiders" would know
                                                  > nothing about the region that they wish to play in? The same
                                                  > interest that brought them to the region would make them just
                                                  > as likely as a hometowner to know the story and history of
                                                  > the region. Such assumptions have clouded this whole discussion
                                                  > from the beginning. Its time everyone took some advice from
                                                  > Benny Hill as to what happens when you assume.............
                                                  >
                                                  > KJ

                                                  Then, why, oh why, are you assuming they will?

                                                  --
                                                  Tyler
                                                • Immaculate Image
                                                  I have to agree with Kelly here. I understand why LG should maintain its region exclusiveness, but odds are that many people seeking to play in a particular
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Sep 5 9:40 AM
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                                                    I have to agree with Kelly here. I understand why LG should maintain its
                                                    region exclusiveness, but odds are that many people seeking to play in a
                                                    particular region (rather than just another gaming opportunity) know more
                                                    about the region than most players and GMs. (I was a pain-in-the-butt in
                                                    Dragonscales @ Morningtide.)
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                                                  • nickperch@aol.com
                                                    Russ wrote:
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Sep 5 9:52 AM
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                                                      Russ wrote:

                                                      <<<I have to agree with Kelly here. I understand why LG should maintain its
                                                      region exclusiveness, but odds are that many people seeking to play in a
                                                      particular region (rather than just another gaming opportunity) know more
                                                      about the region than most players and GMs. (I was a pain-in-the-butt in
                                                      Dragonscales @ Morningtide.)>>>

                                                      Alright now, in my defense, no one ever said that the GMs had to learn the intimate details of every region in which a core module might run. Ask me about Gran March, or FtA era Nyrond, and I'll do much better on the quiz than I will with Greyhawk city material. You weren't, however, really a pain. Most of the asides were interesting and informative, and actually having the Greyhawk city maps was very helpful (I can't find mine).

                                                      Nick
                                                    • Michael J. Eshleman
                                                      ... intimate details of every region in which a core module might run. Ask me about Gran March, or FtA era Nyrond, and I ll do much better on the quiz than I
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Sep 5 1:17 PM
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                                                        > Alright now, in my defense, no one ever said that the GMs had to learn the
                                                        intimate details of every region in which a core module might run. Ask me
                                                        about Gran March, or FtA era Nyrond, and I'll do much better on the quiz
                                                        than I will with Greyhawk city material. You weren't, however, really a
                                                        pain. Most of the asides were interesting and informative, and actually
                                                        having the Greyhawk city maps was very helpful (I can't find mine).
                                                        >

                                                        Understood. Thanx, though. I was afraid I'd get a sling bullet between
                                                        my eyes for brining those maps and the GoF & FFF material.

                                                        PS: For future Shacktown scenarios, there are some neat cardboard cutouts
                                                        in the Flames of the Falcon series of modules (WB? Can't remember off the
                                                        top of my head.)

                                                        -Michael aka Al-ahden-ben-Thazir
                                                        (Who feels an eternal pain that his actions caused one so valiant as Ardalis
                                                        to fall prey to the evils of the world.)
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