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4e Product Lines

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  • kaililitu
    A new Dragon article is up with Bill Slavicsek talking about the 4e product line plan - no more than 2 or 3 setting-specific rulebooks (plus adventures and
    Message 1 of 27 , May 1, 2008
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      A new Dragon article is up with Bill Slavicsek talking about the 4e
      product line plan - no more than 2 or 3 setting-specific rulebooks
      (plus adventures and novels) for any one setting.
      http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20080430

      Xan Ophis
    • Ed Veal
      I did not read that the same way. Quote from http://www.wizards. com/default. asp?x=dnd/ dramp/20080430 This means we won t be producing campaign lines, per
      Message 2 of 27 , May 1, 2008
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        I did not read that the same way.

        Quote from http://www.wizards. com/default. asp?x=dnd/ dramp/20080430
        This means we won't be producing campaign lines, per se. For the Forgotten Realms, for example, you'll get the Campaign Guide, Player's Guide, and an adventure as physical products, as well as our ongoing line of bestselling novels, and plenty of ongoing support via D&D Insider. If a product idea comes along later that makes sense, we'll do it, but there won't be an ongoing regular release schedule of Forgotten Realms game products.

        This indicates to me that there could be additions to the 3 base products but not on a scheduled basis. Or am I missing something?

        Ed



        ----- Original Message ----
        From: kaililitu <kaililitu@...>
        To: LivingFR@yahoogroups.com; lfr-oxford@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 7:18:39 AM
        Subject: [LivingFR] 4e Product Lines

        A new Dragon article is up with Bill Slavicsek talking about the 4e
        product line plan - no more than 2 or 3 setting-specific rulebooks
        (plus adventures and novels) for any one setting.
        http://www.wizards. com/default. asp?x=dnd/ dramp/20080430

        Xan Ophis


      • Jake Robins
        I think Bill is basically covering his ass in case one day another product does come out (because a wicked idea comes along). But for now, don t plan on any
        Message 3 of 27 , May 1, 2008
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          I think Bill is basically covering his ass in case one day another
          product does come out (because a wicked idea comes along). But for
          now, don't plan on any further products beyond those base few.

          I personally am OK with the direction they're taking with that. There
          is enough juicy qualitative information bits from past rules systems
          on FR, for example, to satisfy my need to learn. In the meantime, I
          can now freely create in the gaps of the new FR without fear of some
          specific product coming out down the line that clashes with my
          personal setting.

          -Jake Robins
          St. Catharines, ON


          > I did not read that the same way.
          >
          > Quote from http://www.wizards com/default. asp?x=dnd/ dramp/20080430
          > This means we won't be producing campaign lines, per se. For the
          Forgotten Realms, for example, you'll get the Campaign Guide, Player's
          Guide, and an adventure as physical products, as well as our ongoing
          line of bestselling novels, and plenty of ongoing support via D&D
          Insider. If a product idea comes along later that makes sense, we'll
          do it, but there won't be an ongoing regular release schedule of
          Forgotten Realms game products.
          >
          > This indicates to me that there could be additions to the 3 base
          products but not on a scheduled basis. Or am I missing something?
          >
          > Ed
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message ----
          > From: kaililitu <kaililitu@...>
          > To: LivingFR@yahoogroups.com; lfr-oxford@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 7:18:39 AM
          > Subject: [LivingFR] 4e Product Lines
          >
          > A new Dragon article is up with Bill Slavicsek
          talking about the 4e
          > product line plan - no more than 2 or 3 setting-specific rulebooks
          > (plus adventures and novels) for any one setting.
          > http://www.wizards com/default. asp?x=dnd/ dramp/20080430
          >
          > Xan Ophis
          >
          >
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        • Ed Veal
          I fully agree with you on the new direction. I am just tiered of seeing posts saying that there will not ever be more that 3 setting books. I find it too
          Message 4 of 27 , May 1, 2008
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            I fully agree with you on the new direction. I am just tiered of seeing posts saying that there will not ever be more that 3 setting books. I find it too absolutist and negative. I just wish they could find a way to fix the creep that happens due to the novels. I read some of them but not all them.  But that is another issue.

            Ed

            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Jake Robins <mendahu@...>
            To: LivingFR@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 9:31:58 AM
            Subject: [LivingFR] Re: 4e Product Lines

            I think Bill is basically covering his ass in case one day another
            product does come out (because a wicked idea comes along). But for
            now, don't plan on any further products beyond those base few.

            I personally am OK with the direction they're taking with that. There
            is enough juicy qualitative information bits from past rules systems
            on FR, for example, to satisfy my need to learn. In the meantime, I
            can now freely create in the gaps of the new FR without fear of some
            specific product coming out down the line that clashes with my
            personal setting.

            -Jake Robins
            St. Catharines, ON

            > I did not read that the same way.
            >
            > Quote from http://www.wizards. com/default. asp?x=dnd/ dramp/20080430
            > This means we won't be producing campaign lines, per se. For the
            Forgotten Realms, for example, you'll get the Campaign Guide, Player's
            Guide, and an adventure as physical products, as well as our ongoing
            line of bestselling novels, and plenty of ongoing support via D&D
            Insider. If a product idea comes along later that makes sense, we'll
            do it, but there won't be an ongoing regular release schedule of
            Forgotten Realms game products.
            >
            > This indicates to me that there could be additions to the 3 base
            products but not on a scheduled basis. Or am I missing something?
            >
            > Ed
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message ----
            > From: kaililitu <kaililitu@. ..>
            > To: LivingFR@yahoogroup s.com; lfr-oxford@yahoogro ups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 7:18:39 AM
            > Subject: [LivingFR] 4e Product Lines
            >
            > A new Dragon article is up with Bill Slavicsek
            talking about the 4e
            > product line plan - no more than 2 or 3 setting-specific rulebooks
            > (plus adventures and novels) for any one setting.
            > http://www.wizards. com/default. asp?x=dnd/ dramp/20080430
            >
            > Xan Ophis
            >
            >
            >
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          • Paul Brinker
            I think the idea is almost to allow 3rd party publishers to come in and support the settings. The idea that only a few books will be out for a given setting
            Message 5 of 27 , May 1, 2008
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              I think the idea is almost to allow 3rd party publishers to come in and support the settings.  The idea that only a few books will be out for a given setting means a 3rd party might actully make some money since there books wont be lost in the pile of other books for a given setting.

              On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Ed Veal <edveal2002@...> wrote:

              I fully agree with you on the new direction. I am just tiered of seeing posts saying that there will not ever be more that 3 setting books. I find it too absolutist and negative. I just wish they could find a way to fix the creep that happens due to the novels. I read some of them but not all them.  But that is another issue.

              Ed

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Jake Robins <mendahu@...>
              To: LivingFR@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 9:31:58 AM
              Subject: [LivingFR] Re: 4e Product Lines

              I think Bill is basically covering his ass in case one day another
              product does come out (because a wicked idea comes along). But for
              now, don't plan on any further products beyond those base few.

              I personally am OK with the direction they're taking with that. There
              is enough juicy qualitative information bits from past rules systems
              on FR, for example, to satisfy my need to learn. In the meantime, I
              can now freely create in the gaps of the new FR without fear of some
              specific product coming out down the line that clashes with my
              personal setting.

              -Jake Robins
              St. Catharines, ON

              > I did not read that the same way.
              >
              > Quote from http://www.wizards. com/default. asp?x=dnd/ dramp/20080430
              > This means we won't be producing campaign lines, per se. For the
              Forgotten Realms, for example, you'll get the Campaign Guide, Player's
              Guide, and an adventure as physical products, as well as our ongoing
              line of bestselling novels, and plenty of ongoing support via D&D
              Insider. If a product idea comes along later that makes sense, we'll
              do it, but there won't be an ongoing regular release schedule of
              Forgotten Realms game products.
              >
              > This indicates to me that there could be additions to the 3 base
              products but not on a scheduled basis. Or am I missing something?
              >
              > Ed
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: kaililitu <kaililitu@. ..>
              > To: LivingFR@yahoogroup s.com; lfr-oxford@yahoogro ups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 7:18:39 AM
              > Subject: [LivingFR] 4e Product Lines
              >
              > A new Dragon article is up with Bill Slavicsek
              talking about the 4e
              > product line plan - no more than 2 or 3 setting-specific rulebooks
              > (plus adventures and novels) for any one setting.
              > http://www.wizards. com/default. asp?x=dnd/ dramp/20080430
              >
              > Xan Ophis
              >
              >
              >
              > <!--
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              font-family: Arial;font- weight:bold; color:#628c2a; font-size: 100%;line- height:122% ;}
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              > text-decoration: none;}
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              > text-decoration: underline; }
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              > blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
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              > -->
              >





              --
              Good, Bad, Im the one with the gun.
            • Smith, Boyd [C]
              What about 3rd party settings? Boyd W. Smith Laboratory Technician 337-708-4555/4911/4021 _____ From: LivingFR@yahoogroups.com
              Message 6 of 27 , May 1, 2008
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                What about 3rd party settings?

                Boyd W. Smith
                Laboratory Technician
                337-708-4555/4911/4021



                From: LivingFR@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LivingFR@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Brinker
                Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 1:47 PM
                To: LivingFR@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [LivingFR] Re: 4e Product Lines

                I think the idea is almost to allow 3rd party publishers to come in and support the settings.  The idea that only a few books will be out for a given setting means a 3rd party might actully make some money since there books wont be lost in the pile of other books for a given setting.

                On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Ed Veal <edveal2002@yahoo. com> wrote:

                I fully agree with you on the new direction. I am just tiered of seeing posts saying that there will not ever be more that 3 setting books. I find it too absolutist and negative. I just wish they could find a way to fix the creep that happens due to the novels. I read some of them but not all them.  But that is another issue.

                Ed

                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Jake Robins <mendahu@gmail. com>
                To: LivingFR@yahoogroup s.com
                Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 9:31:58 AM
                Subject: [LivingFR] Re: 4e Product Lines

                I think Bill is basically covering his ass in case one day another
                product does come out (because a wicked idea comes along). But for
                now, don't plan on any further products beyond those base few.

                I personally am OK with the direction they're taking with that. There
                is enough juicy qualitative information bits from past rules systems
                on FR, for example, to satisfy my need to learn. In the meantime, I
                can now freely create in the gaps of the new FR without fear of some
                specific product coming out down the line that clashes with my
                personal setting.

                -Jake Robins
                St. Catharines, ON

                > I did not read that the same way.
                >
                > Quote from http://www.wizards. com/default. asp?x=dnd/ dramp/20080430
                > This means we won't be producing campaign lines, per se. For the
                Forgotten Realms, for example, you'll get the Campaign Guide, Player's
                Guide, and an adventure as physical products, as well as our ongoing
                line of bestselling novels, and plenty of ongoing support via D&D
                Insider. If a product idea comes along later that makes sense, we'll
                do it, but there won't be an ongoing regular release schedule of
                Forgotten Realms game products.
                >
                > This indicates to me that there could be additions to the 3 base
                products but not on a scheduled basis. Or am I missing something?
                >
                > Ed
                >
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message ----
                > From: kaililitu <kaililitu@. ..>
                > To: LivingFR@yahoogroup s.com; lfr-oxford@yahoogro ups.com
                > Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 7:18:39 AM
                > Subject: [LivingFR] 4e Product Lines
                >
                > A new Dragon article is up with Bill Slavicsek
                talking about the 4e
                > product line plan - no more than 2 or 3 setting-specific rulebooks
                > (plus adventures and novels) for any one setting.
                > http://www.wizards. com/default. asp?x=dnd/ dramp/20080430
                >
                > Xan Ophis
                >
                >
                >
                > <!--
                >
                > #ygrp-mkp{
                > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- family:Arial; margin:14px
                0px;padding: 0px 14px;}
                > #ygrp-mkp hr{
                > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}
                > #ygrp-mkp #hd{
                >
                color:#628c2a; font-size: 85%;font- weight:bold; line-height: 122%;margin: 10px
                0px;}
                > #ygrp-mkp #ads{
                > margin-bottom: 10px;}
                > #ygrp-mkp .ad{
                > padding:0 0;}
                > #ygrp-mkp .ad a{
                > color:#0000ff; text-decoration: none;}
                > -->
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                > <!--
                >
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                > font-family: Arial;}
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                > margin:10px 0px;font-weight: bold;font- size:78%; line-height: 122%;}
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                > margin-bottom: 10px;padding: 0 0;}
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                0;white-space: nowrap;color: #666;text- align:right; }
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                > padding:0;margin: 2px 0;}
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                > list-style-type: none;clear: both;border: 1px solid #e0ecee;
                > }
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                >
                font-weight: bold;color: #ff7900;float: right;width: 2em;text- align:right; padding-right: .5em;}
                > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
                > font-weight: bold;}
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                > text-decoration: none;}
                >
                > #ygrp-vital a:hover{
                > text-decoration: underline; }
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                > color:#999;font- size:77%; }
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                > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0; }
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                > list-style-type: square;padding: 6px 0;font-size: 77%;}
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                > text-decoration: none;font- size:130% ;}
                > #ygrp-sponsor #nc{
                > background-color: #eee;margin- bottom:20px; padding:0 8px;}
                > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{
                > padding:8px 0;}
                > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
                >
                font-family: Arial;font- weight:bold; color:#628c2a; font-size: 100%;line- height:122% ;}
                > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
                > text-decoration: none;}
                > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
                > text-decoration: underline; }
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                > font-size:120% ;}
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                > -->
                >





                --
                Good, Bad, Im the one with the gun.

              • Jake Robins
                I m not exactly sure that s possible. While the 4e SRD will be available for 3rd party publishers to use and publish their own stuff from, campaign settings
                Message 7 of 27 , May 1, 2008
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                  I'm not exactly sure that's possible. While the 4e SRD will be
                  available for 3rd party publishers to use and publish their own stuff
                  from, campaign settings like FR and Eberron remain the copyright of
                  Wizards of the Coast.

                  -Jake Robins
                  St. Catharines, Ontario

                  > I think the idea is almost to allow 3rd party publishers to come in and
                  > support the settings. The idea that only a few books will be out for a
                  > given setting means a 3rd party might actully make some money since
                  there
                  > books wont be lost in the pile of other books for a given setting.
                  >
                  > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Ed Veal <edveal2002@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > I fully agree with you on the new direction. I am just tiered
                  of seeing
                  > > posts saying that there will not ever be more that 3 setting
                  books. I find
                  > > it too absolutist and negative. I just wish they could find a way
                  to fix the
                  > > creep that happens due to the novels. I read some of them but not
                  all them.
                  > > But that is another issue.
                  > >
                  > > Ed
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message ----
                  > > From: Jake Robins <mendahu@...>
                  > > To: LivingFR@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 9:31:58 AM
                  > > Subject: [LivingFR] Re: 4e Product Lines
                  > >
                  > > I think Bill is basically covering his ass in case one day another
                  > > product does come out (because a wicked idea comes along). But for
                  > > now, don't plan on any further products beyond those base few.
                  > >
                  > > I personally am OK with the direction they're taking with that. There
                  > > is enough juicy qualitative information bits from past rules systems
                  > > on FR, for example, to satisfy my need to learn. In the meantime, I
                  > > can now freely create in the gaps of the new FR without fear of some
                  > > specific product coming out down the line that clashes with my
                  > > personal setting.
                  > >
                  > > -Jake Robins
                  > > St. Catharines, ON
                  > >
                  > > > I did not read that the same way.
                  > > >
                  > > > Quote from http://www.wizards com/default. asp?x=dnd/
                  dramp/20080430
                  > > > This means we won't be producing campaign lines, per se. For the
                  > > Forgotten Realms, for example, you'll get the Campaign Guide, Player's
                  > > Guide, and an adventure as physical products, as well as our ongoing
                  > > line of bestselling novels, and plenty of ongoing support via D&D
                  > > Insider. If a product idea comes along later that makes sense, we'll
                  > > do it, but there won't be an ongoing regular release schedule of
                  > > Forgotten Realms game products.
                  > > >
                  > > > This indicates to me that there could be additions to the 3 base
                  > > products but not on a scheduled basis. Or am I missing something?
                  > > >
                  > > > Ed
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ----- Original Message ----
                  > > > From: kaililitu <kaililitu@ ..>
                  > > > To: LivingFR@yahoogroup s.com <LivingFR%40yahoogroups.com>;
                  lfr-oxford@yahoogro
                  > > ups.com <lfr-oxford%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 7:18:39 AM
                  > > > Subject: [LivingFR] 4e Product Lines
                  > > >
                  > > > A new Dragon article is up with Bill Slavicsek
                  > > talking about the 4e
                  > > > product line plan - no more than 2 or 3 setting-specific rulebooks
                  > > > (plus adventures and novels) for any one setting.
                  > > > http://www.wizards com/default. asp?x=dnd/ dramp/20080430
                  > > >
                  > > > Xan Ophis
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > <!--
                  > > >
                  > > > #ygrp-mkp{
                  > > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- family:Arial; margin:14px
                  > > 0px;padding: 0px 14px;}
                  > > > #ygrp-mkp hr{
                  > > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}
                  > > > #ygrp-mkp #hd{
                  > > >
                  > > color:#628c2a; font-size: 85%;font- weight:bold; line-height:
                  122%;margin:
                  > > 10px
                  > > 0px;}
                  > > > #ygrp-mkp #ads{
                  > > > margin-bottom: 10px;}
                  > > > #ygrp-mkp .ad{
                  > > > padding:0 0;}
                  > > > #ygrp-mkp .ad a{
                  > > > color:#0000ff; text-decoration: none;}
                  > > > -->
                  > > >
                  > > > <!--
                  > > >
                  > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{
                  > > > font-family: Arial;}
                  > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{
                  > > > margin:10px 0px;font-weight: bold;font- size:78%; line-height:
                  122%;}
                  > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{
                  > > > margin-bottom: 10px;padding: 0 0;}
                  > > > -->
                  > > >
                  > > > <!--
                  > > >
                  > > > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean,
                  > > sans-serif;}
                  > > > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit; font:100% ;}
                  > > > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica,
                  > > clean, sans-serif;}
                  > > > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}
                  > > > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height: 1.22em;}
                  > > > #ygrp-text{
                  > > > font-family: Georgia;
                  > > > }
                  > > > #ygrp-text p{
                  > > > margin:0 0 1em 0;}
                  > > > #ygrp-tpmsgs{
                  > > > font-family: Arial;
                  > > > clear:both;}
                  > > > #ygrp-vitnav{
                  > > > padding-top: 10px;font- family:Verdana; font-size: 77%;margin: 0;}
                  > > > #ygrp-vitnav a{
                  > > > padding:0 1px;}
                  > > > #ygrp-actbar{
                  > > > clear:both;margin: 25px
                  > > 0;white-space: nowrap;color: #666;text- align:right; }
                  > > > #ygrp-actbar .left{
                  > > > float:left;white- space:nowrap; }
                  > > > .bld{font-weight: bold;}
                  > > > #ygrp-grft{
                  > > > font-family: Verdana;font- size:77%; padding:15px 0;}
                  > > > #ygrp-ft{
                  > > > font-family: verdana;font- size:77%; border-top: 1px solid #666;
                  > > > padding:5px 0;
                  > > > }
                  > > > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
                  > > > padding-bottom: 10px;}
                  > > >
                  > > > #ygrp-reco {
                  > > > margin-bottom: 20px;padding: 0px;}
                  > > > #ygrp-reco #reco-head {
                  > > > font-weight: bold;color: #ff7900;}
                  > > >
                  > > > #reco-grpname{
                  > > > font-weight: bold;margin- top:10px; }
                  > > > #reco-category{
                  > > > font-size:77% ;}
                  > > > #reco-desc{
                  > > > font-size:77% ;}
                  > > >
                  > > > #ygrp-vital{
                  > > > background-color: #e0ecee;margin- bottom:20px; padding:2px 0 8px
                  8px;}
                  > > > #ygrp-vital #vithd{
                  > > >
                  > > font-size:77% ;font-family: Verdana;font- weight:bold; color:#333;
                  > > text-transform: uppercase; }
                  > > > #ygrp-vital ul{
                  > > > padding:0;margin: 2px 0;}
                  > > > #ygrp-vital ul li{
                  > > > list-style-type: none;clear: both;border: 1px solid #e0ecee;
                  > > > }
                  > > > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
                  > > >
                  > > font-weight: bold;color: #ff7900;float: right;width: 2em;text-
                  align:right;
                  > > padding-right: .5em;}
                  > > > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
                  > > > font-weight: bold;}
                  > > > #ygrp-vital a{
                  > > > text-decoration: none;}
                  > > >
                  > > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{
                  > > > text-decoration: underline; }
                  > > >
                  > > > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{
                  > > > color:#999;font- size:77%; }
                  > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{
                  > > > padding:6px 13px;background- color:#e0ecee; margin-bottom: 20px;}
                  > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
                  > > > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0; }
                  > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
                  > > > list-style-type: square;padding: 6px 0;font-size: 77%;}
                  > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
                  > > > text-decoration: none;font- size:130% ;}
                  > > > #ygrp-sponsor #nc{
                  > > > background-color: #eee;margin- bottom:20px; padding:0 8px;}
                  > > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{
                  > > > padding:8px 0;}
                  > > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
                  > > >
                  > > font-family: Arial;font- weight:bold; color:#628c2a; font-size:
                  100%;line-
                  > > height:122% ;}
                  > > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
                  > > > text-decoration: none;}
                  > > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
                  > > > text-decoration: underline; }
                  > > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
                  > > > margin:0;}
                  > > > o{font-size: 0;}
                  > > > .MsoNormal{
                  > > > margin:0 0 0 0;}
                  > > > #ygrp-text tt{
                  > > > font-size:120% ;}
                  > > > blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
                  > > > .replbq{margin: 4;}
                  > > > -->
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Good, Bad, Im the one with the gun.
                  >
                • James D.
                  I have no inside knowledge here, but I see zero chance of Wizards allowing the Realms or Eberron to be supported by a third party publisher. James D. To:
                  Message 8 of 27 , May 1, 2008
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                  • 0 Attachment
                    I have no inside knowledge here, but I see zero chance of Wizards allowing the Realms or Eberron  to be supported by a third party publisher.

                    James D.


                    To: LivingFR@yahoogroups.com
                    From: pyrosf@...
                    Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 11:47:23 -0700
                    Subject: Re: [LivingFR] Re: 4e Product Lines


                    I think the idea is almost to allow 3rd party publishers to come in and support the settings.  The idea that only a few books will be out for a given setting means a 3rd party might actully make some money since there books wont be lost in the pile of other books for a given setting.

                    On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Ed Veal <edveal2002@yahoo. com> wrote:

                    I fully agree with you on the new direction. I am just tiered of seeing posts saying that there will not ever be more that 3 setting books. I find it too absolutist and negative. I just wish they could find a way to fix the creep that happens due to the novels. I read some of them but not all them.  But that is another issue.

                    Ed

                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Jake Robins <mendahu@gmail. com>
                    To: LivingFR@yahoogroup s.com
                    Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 9:31:58 AM
                    Subject: [LivingFR] Re: 4e Product Lines


                    I think Bill is basically covering his ass in case one day another
                    product does come out (because a wicked idea comes along). But for
                    now, don't plan on any further products beyond those base few.

                    I personally am OK with the direction they're taking with that. There
                    is enough juicy qualitative information bits from past rules systems
                    on FR, for example, to satisfy my need to learn. In the meantime, I
                    can now freely create in the gaps of the new FR without fear of some
                    specific product coming out down the line that clashes with my
                    personal setting.

                    -Jake Robins
                    St. Catharines, ON

                    > I did not read that the same way.
                    >
                    > Quote from http://www.wizards. com/default. asp?x=dnd/ dramp/20080430
                    > This means we won't be producing campaign lines, per se. For the
                    Forgotten Realms, for example, you'll get the Campaign Guide, Player's
                    Guide, and an adventure as physical products, as well as our ongoing
                    line of bestselling novels, and plenty of ongoing support via D&D
                    Insider. If a product idea comes along later that makes sense, we'll
                    do it, but there won't be an ongoing regular release schedule of
                    Forgotten Realms game products.
                    >
                    > This indicates to me that there could be additions to the 3 base
                    products but not on a scheduled basis. Or am I missing something?
                    >
                    > Ed
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message ----
                    > From: kaililitu <kaililitu@. ..>
                    > To: LivingFR@yahoogroup s.com; lfr-oxford@yahoogro ups.com
                    > Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 7:18:39 AM
                    > Subject: [LivingFR] 4e Product Lines
                    >
                    > A new Dragon article is up with Bill Slavicsek
                    talking about the 4e
                    > product line plan - no more than 2 or 3 setting-specific rulebooks
                    > (plus adventures and novels) for any one setting.
                    > http://www.wizards. com/default. asp?x=dnd/ dramp/20080430
                    >
                    > Xan Ophis
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > <!--
                    >
                    > #ygrp-mkp{
                    > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- family:Arial; margin:14px
                    0px;padding: 0px 14px;}
                    > #ygrp-mkp hr{
                    > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}
                    > #ygrp-mkp #hd{
                    >
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                    0px;}
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                    > margin-bottom: 10px;}
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                    > padding:0 0;}
                    > #ygrp-mkp .ad a{
                    > color:#0000ff; text-decoration: none;}
                    > -->
                    >
                    > <!--
                    >
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                    > font-family: Arial;}
                    > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{
                    > margin:10px 0px;font-weight: bold;font- size:78%; line-height: 122%;}
                    > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{
                    > margin-bottom: 10px;padding: 0 0;}
                    > -->
                    >
                    > <!--
                    >
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                    sans-serif;}
                    > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit; font:100% ;}
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                    clean, sans-serif;}
                    > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}
                    > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height: 1.22em;}
                    > #ygrp-text{
                    > font-family: Georgia;
                    > }
                    > #ygrp-text p{
                    > margin:0 0 1em 0;}
                    > #ygrp-tpmsgs{
                    > font-family: Arial;
                    > clear:both;}
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                    > padding-top: 10px;font- family:Verdana; font-size: 77%;margin: 0;}
                    > #ygrp-vitnav a{
                    > padding:0 1px;}
                    > #ygrp-actbar{
                    > clear:both;margin: 25px
                    0;white-space: nowrap;color: #666;text- align:right; }
                    > #ygrp-actbar .left{
                    > float:left;white- space:nowrap; }
                    > .bld{font-weight: bold;}
                    > #ygrp-grft{
                    > font-family: Verdana;font- size:77%; padding:15px 0;}
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                    > font-family: verdana;font- size:77%; border-top: 1px solid #666;
                    > padding:5px 0;
                    > }
                    > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
                    > padding-bottom: 10px;}
                    >
                    > #ygrp-reco {
                    > margin-bottom: 20px;padding: 0px;}
                    > #ygrp-reco #reco-head {
                    > font-weight: bold;color: #ff7900;}
                    >
                    > #reco-grpname{
                    > font-weight: bold;margin- top:10px; }
                    > #reco-category{
                    > font-size:77% ;}
                    > #reco-desc{
                    > font-size:77% ;}
                    >
                    > #ygrp-vital{
                    > background-color: #e0ecee;margin- bottom:20px; padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}
                    > #ygrp-vital #vithd{
                    >
                    font-size:77% ;font-family: Verdana;font- weight:bold; color:#333; text-transform: uppercase; }
                    > #ygrp-vital ul{
                    > padding:0;margin: 2px 0;}
                    > #ygrp-vital ul li{
                    > list-style-type: none;clear: both;border: 1px solid #e0ecee;
                    > }
                    > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
                    >
                    font-weight: bold;color: #ff7900;float: right;width: 2em;text- align:right; padding-right: .5em;}
                    > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
                    > font-weight: bold;}
                    > #ygrp-vital a{
                    > text-decoration: none;}
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                    > #ygrp-vital a:hover{
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                    > color:#999;font- size:77%; }
                    > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{
                    > padding:6px 13px;background- color:#e0ecee; margin-bottom: 20px;}
                    > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
                    > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0; }
                    > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
                    > list-style-type: square;padding: 6px 0;font-size: 77%;}
                    > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
                    > text-decoration: none;font- size:130% ;}
                    > #ygrp-sponsor #nc{
                    > background-color: #eee;margin- bottom:20px; padding:0 8px;}
                    > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{
                    > padding:8px 0;}
                    > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
                    >
                    font-family: Arial;font- weight:bold; color:#628c2a; font-size: 100%;line- height:122% ;}
                    > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
                    > text-decoration: none;}
                    > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
                    > text-decoration: underline; }
                    > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
                    > margin:0;}
                    > o{font-size: 0;}
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                    > margin:0 0 0 0;}
                    > #ygrp-text tt{
                    > font-size:120% ;}
                    > blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
                    > .replbq{margin: 4;}
                    > -->
                    >







                    --
                    Good, Bad, Im the one with the gun.
                  • Terry Duchastel
                    ... seeing posts saying that there will not ever be more that 3 setting books. I find it too absolutist and negative. I just wish they could find a way to fix
                    Message 9 of 27 , May 3, 2008
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                      --- In LivingFR@yahoogroups.com, Ed Veal <edveal2002@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I fully agree with you on the new direction. I am just tiered of
                      seeing posts saying that there will not ever be more that 3 setting
                      books. I find it too absolutist and negative. I just wish they could
                      find a way to fix the creep that happens due to the novels. I read some
                      of them but not all them. But that is another issue.
                      >
                      > Ed

                      I agree -- not only will there be an undetermined amount of novels that
                      will add to the Realms, but I think we should naturally assume that if
                      the FR books sell well then we should expect to see more FR source
                      books. This is good: if players are clamoring for more FR, then it
                      would be a loss to both players and WotC if they didn't meet that
                      demand.

                      By way of comparison, the closest analogy that I can think of White
                      Wolf's "new world" books. They promised a set of 5 books for companion
                      settings (Changeling, Werewolf, etc...). However, due to the surprise
                      popularity of the Changeling line, White Wolf has announced a sixth book
                      for that campaign setting.

                      To be honest, I'm a little surprised by WotC's intended decision to
                      produce roughly 2 or 3 books (with some exceptions) per campaign
                      setting. Unlike White Wolf's "World of Darkness" setting where all the
                      different campaign settings are compatible with each other (they *add*
                      to each other), the different campaign settings for D&D are largely
                      mutually exclusive, which divides the player base. As an example, when
                      a Vampire story-teller buys a Werewolf book, he's adding more material
                      to his campaign in the form of allies, enemies, foils, a new place to
                      explore, etc. But when a DM buys an Eberron source book for his FR
                      campaign, it does little for him (though there is some generic info that
                      is useful, of course). For instance, I see very little Eberron or even
                      FR used in Living Greyhawk, other than some new monsters.

                      Terry Duchastel
                    • Penn Davies
                      From: Terry Duchastel ... I expect they ll be pushing harder for cross-pollination from the setting books... and they are pretty
                      Message 10 of 27 , May 3, 2008
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                        From: "Terry Duchastel" <terryduc@...>
                        > To be honest, I'm a little surprised by WotC's intended decision to
                        > produce roughly 2 or 3 books (with some exceptions) per campaign
                        > setting. Unlike White Wolf's "World of Darkness" setting where all the
                        > different campaign settings are compatible with each other (they *add*
                        > to each other), the different campaign settings for D&D are largely
                        > mutually exclusive, which divides the player base. As an example, when
                        > a Vampire story-teller buys a Werewolf book, he's adding more material
                        > to his campaign in the form of allies, enemies, foils, a new place to
                        > explore, etc. But when a DM buys an Eberron source book for his FR
                        > campaign, it does little for him (though there is some generic info that
                        > is useful, of course). For instance, I see very little Eberron or even
                        > FR used in Living Greyhawk, other than some new monsters.

                        I expect they'll be pushing harder for cross-pollination from the setting
                        books... and they are pretty explicitly hoping people will be taking things
                        from all settings for their default 'points of light' campaign. I believe
                        that one of the designers mentions Silverymoon in his PoL game, for example.
                        They are intending far fewer setting specific books than in 3.5. I have a
                        shelf of Eberron currently, while they aren't expecting more than 3 per line
                        with mostly Core books being produced, usable in all (or most) worlds.

                        --Penn
                      • Ed Veal
                        We also can t forget that they are pushing DDI... I think that is where most of the campaign specific stuff will come from. So we are then back to a two track
                        Message 11 of 27 , May 3, 2008
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                          We also can't forget that they are pushing DDI... I think that is where most of the campaign specific stuff will come from. So we are then back to a two track game those with DDI and those without DDI.

                          Ed

                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: Penn Davies <seule@...>
                          To: LivingFR@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2008 3:25:03 PM
                          Subject: Re: [LivingFR] Re: 4e Product Lines

                          From: "Terry Duchastel" <terryduc@hotmail. com>

                          > To be honest, I'm a little surprised by WotC's intended decision to
                          > produce roughly 2 or 3 books (with some exceptions) per campaign
                          > setting. Unlike White Wolf's "World of Darkness" setting where all the
                          > different campaign settings are compatible with each other (they *add*
                          > to each other), the different campaign settings for D&D are largely
                          > mutually exclusive, which divides the player base. As an example, when
                          > a Vampire story-teller buys a Werewolf book, he's adding more material
                          > to his campaign in the form of allies, enemies, foils, a new place to
                          > explore, etc. But when a DM buys an Eberron source book for his FR
                          > campaign, it does little for him (though there is some generic info that
                          > is useful, of course). For instance, I see very little Eberron or even
                          > FR used in Living Greyhawk, other than some new monsters.

                          I expect they'll be pushing harder for cross-pollination from the setting
                          books... and they are pretty explicitly hoping people will be taking things
                          from all settings for their default 'points of light' campaign. I believe
                          that one of the designers mentions Silverymoon in his PoL game, for example.
                          They are intending far fewer setting specific books than in 3.5. I have a
                          shelf of Eberron currently, while they aren't expecting more than 3 per line
                          with mostly Core books being produced, usable in all (or most) worlds.

                          --Penn

                        • brother.cadfael
                          Talking about DDI, I cannot say that I am overly excited about the proposed price point for the monthly subscription. It seems a bit high to me. First I have
                          Message 12 of 27 , May 3, 2008
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                            Talking about DDI, I cannot say that I am overly excited about the
                            proposed price point for the monthly subscription. It seems a bit
                            high to me. First I have to make an outlay for core books, then on
                            top of that get hit with $15 to $20 a month for the online content
                            that will cover the erratas and supplement the book content. Not to
                            mention, if I want to keep my books current for campaign purposes, I
                            will need to buy 3 more books every year for the new core books.
                            Further, at some point I will have to get campaign setting books as
                            well. This is starting to sound awfully expensive. I was kind of
                            hoping that DDI would be considerally less expensive than the mags
                            (which I never had any interest in) were when they were printed and
                            shipped by post. As DDI will be strictly digital content, it seems
                            that cost of production and distribution should be much lower than
                            the old mag costs.

                            --- In LivingFR@yahoogroups.com, Ed Veal <edveal2002@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > We also can't forget that they are pushing DDI... I think that is
                            where most of the campaign specific stuff will come from. So we are
                            then back to a two track game those with DDI and those without DDI.
                            >
                            > Ed
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message ----
                            > From: Penn Davies <seule@...>
                            > To: LivingFR@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2008 3:25:03 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [LivingFR] Re: 4e Product Lines
                            >
                            >
                            > From: "Terry Duchastel" <terryduc@hotmail. com>
                            > > To be honest, I'm a little surprised by WotC's intended decision
                            to
                            > > produce roughly 2 or 3 books (with some exceptions) per campaign
                            > > setting. Unlike White Wolf's "World of Darkness" setting where
                            all the
                            > > different campaign settings are compatible with each other (they
                            *add*
                            > > to each other), the different campaign settings for D&D are
                            largely
                            > > mutually exclusive, which divides the player base. As an
                            example, when
                            > > a Vampire story-teller buys a Werewolf book, he's adding more
                            material
                            > > to his campaign in the form of allies, enemies, foils, a new
                            place to
                            > > explore, etc. But when a DM buys an Eberron source book for his
                            FR
                            > > campaign, it does little for him (though there is some generic
                            info that
                            > > is useful, of course). For instance, I see very little Eberron
                            or even
                            > > FR used in Living Greyhawk, other than some new monsters.
                            >
                            > I expect they'll be pushing harder for cross-pollination from the
                            setting
                            > books... and they are pretty explicitly hoping people will be
                            taking things
                            > from all settings for their default 'points of light' campaign. I
                            believe
                            > that one of the designers mentions Silverymoon in his PoL game, for
                            example.
                            > They are intending far fewer setting specific books than in 3.5. I
                            have a
                            > shelf of Eberron currently, while they aren't expecting more than 3
                            per line
                            > with mostly Core books being produced, usable in all (or most)
                            worlds.
                            >
                            > --Penn
                            >
                          • Iswald
                            ... The core books that come out each year are supposed to be expansions of the original core books. You should be able to get by without them if you wish. Of
                            Message 13 of 27 , May 4, 2008
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                              --- In LivingFR@yahoogroups.com, "brother.cadfael"
                              <brother.cadfael@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Talking about DDI, I cannot say that I am overly excited about the
                              > proposed price point for the monthly subscription. It seems a bit
                              > high to me. First I have to make an outlay for core books, then on
                              > top of that get hit with $15 to $20 a month for the online content
                              > that will cover the erratas and supplement the book content.

                              The core books that come out each year are supposed to be expansions
                              of the original core books. You should be able to get by without them
                              if you wish. Of course, that means limiting yourself to the original
                              core classes, races, etc.

                              From my understanding. Once you subscribe to DDI, you have access to
                              everything that's online, regardless of how long ago it was released.
                              If you buy magazines, you only have access to the magazines that you
                              purchase.
                            • Adrian Stagg
                              ... From: Iswald To: LivingFR@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 5:26 PM Subject: [LivingFR] Re: 4e Product Lines ... From my understanding. Once you
                              Message 14 of 27 , May 4, 2008
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                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Iswald
                                Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 5:26 PM
                                Subject: [LivingFR] Re: 4e Product Lines

                                ---
                                From my understanding. Once you subscribe to DDI, you have access to
                                everything that's online, regardless of how long ago it was released.
                                If you buy magazines, you only have access to the magazines that you
                                purchase.

                                The question that I have is whether you retain access to the content published during your subscription, even if you decide to stop your DDI sub at any time.  At least with my Dragon and Dungeon mags, if I had ever stopped my subscription (and that never happened), I still have all the issues I paid for.
                                This is usually the sticking point with any online journal sub.
                                 


                              • kaililitu
                                ... Supplementary content yes; I can t imagine them making the errata documents part of the subscription-only content, that would be madness! From my
                                Message 15 of 27 , May 4, 2008
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                                  > then on
                                  > top of that get hit with $15 to $20 a month for the online content
                                  > that will cover the erratas and supplement the book content.

                                  Supplementary content yes; I can't imagine them making the errata
                                  documents part of the subscription-only content, that would be
                                  madness! From my understanding of what's been announced so far most of
                                  the stuff that is currently available to view on the D&D website sans
                                  account (Feature articles, DDM articles, RPGA articles, errata
                                  documents, forum viewing) will continue to be so. They need to
                                  continue to support the hobby enough that more casual players will
                                  devote enough time to it to consider buying the subscription, and they
                                  need to provide hooks for people to visit the website and find out
                                  about the subscription-only content they could have access to while
                                  they're there.

                                  > If you buy magazines, you only have access to the magazines that you purchase.

                                  When they were in print form, I used to pop in to my FLGS most months
                                  and browse through the magazines to see if any of the articles
                                  appealed to me sufficiently to buy them. With only a title and a 3-4
                                  line precis of each article to base my judgement on, I'm *very*
                                  unlikely to spend money on content I haven't had a chance to view and
                                  evaluate.

                                  Obviously we're still waiting to hear about most of the details - I'm
                                  curious to discover how they're going to try and resolve the
                                  accessibility vs. DRM issues...

                                  Xan Ophis
                                • Jake Robins
                                  From what I can tell on the Insider FAQ... http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dndifaq ...you ll retain the PDF copies of Dungeon and Dragon magazines
                                  Message 16 of 27 , May 4, 2008
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                                    From what I can tell on the Insider FAQ...

                                    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dndifaq

                                    ...you'll retain the PDF copies of Dungeon and Dragon magazines that
                                    you've downloaded obviously, so don't worry about losing access to
                                    those after your subscription ends.

                                    Also, the cost is lower if you sign up for a year...the FAQ says it
                                    works out to $9.95/month if you do a 12-month subscription. Better
                                    than 15-20. Considering that subscribing to Dungeon and Dragon were
                                    expensive in their own rights (I think here in Canada my Dragon
                                    subscription was $45/year), its not TOO bad of a deal. The only
                                    problem is you can't subscribe to one or the other.

                                    Personally, I'm going to see how much I get out of the website without
                                    subscribing and maybe purchase a couple of the magazines one by one to
                                    see if they've changed from the paper periodicals much, then decide if
                                    its worth it. Maybe I'll even try it out for a month and see what
                                    they offer.

                                    -Jake Robins
                                    St. Catharines, Ontario
                                  • Kyle
                                    Went on sale today. Any thoughts?
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Oct 14, 2008
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                                      Went on sale today. Any thoughts?
                                    • Chris Bergstresser
                                      ... msxml4.dll error 80020009 Microsoft VBScript runtime error Object required: xmlIssues.documentElement line = 35, col = 1 (line is offset from the start
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Oct 14, 2008
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                                        On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Kyle <gordonfan88@...> wrote:
                                        > Went on sale today. Any thoughts?
                                        >

                                        msxml4.dll error '80020009'

                                        Microsoft VBScript runtime error Object required:
                                        'xmlIssues.documentElement' line = 35, col = 1 (line is offset from
                                        the start of the script block). Error returned from property or method
                                        call.

                                        /default.asp, line 631


                                        --------

                                        I'd say give them a couple days to work the kinks out.

                                        -- Chris
                                      • Kyle
                                        ... i ll agree
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Oct 14, 2008
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                                          --- In LivingFR@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Bergstresser" <chris@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Kyle <gordonfan88@...> wrote:
                                          > > Went on sale today. Any thoughts?
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > msxml4.dll error '80020009'
                                          >
                                          > Microsoft VBScript runtime error Object required:
                                          > 'xmlIssues.documentElement' line = 35, col = 1 (line is offset from
                                          > the start of the script block). Error returned from property or method
                                          > call.
                                          >
                                          > /default.asp, line 631
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --------
                                          >
                                          > I'd say give them a couple days to work the kinks out.
                                          >
                                          > -- Chris
                                          >
                                          i'll agree
                                        • G. Dustin Snyder
                                          We are aware that there are some issues regarding the subscriptions and entitlements. As we are in the process of rolling this out to production there will be
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Oct 14, 2008
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                                            "We are aware that there are some issues regarding the subscriptions
                                            and entitlements. As we are in the process of rolling this out to
                                            production there will be components that will not function correctly.
                                            We are working to get everything up and running in as timely a manner
                                            as possible.

                                            Thank you for patience, I will keep you updated through out the day!"

                                            The first day for a project like this is seldom a smooth ride, so
                                            waiting a day or two may not hurt. :)

                                            --- In LivingFR@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Bergstresser" <chris@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            >
                                            > On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Kyle <gordonfan88@...> wrote:
                                            > > Went on sale today. Any thoughts?
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            > msxml4.dll error '80020009'
                                            >
                                            > Microsoft VBScript runtime error Object required:
                                            > 'xmlIssues.documentElement' line = 35, col = 1 (line is offset from
                                            > the start of the script block). Error returned from property or
                                            method
                                            > call.
                                            >
                                            > /default.asp, line 631
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --------
                                            >
                                            > I'd say give them a couple days to work the kinks out.
                                            >
                                            > -- Chris
                                            >
                                          • Roger Bert
                                            I couldn t possibly subscribe while the character builder remains unavailable let alone the true prize of the deal, the game table environment. Why pay? While
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Oct 14, 2008
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                                              I couldn't possibly subscribe while the character builder remains
                                              unavailable let alone the true prize of the deal, the game table
                                              environment. Why pay? While Wizards cools their heels other people on the
                                              Internet are developing even better and free character generators.
                                              -Roger

                                              Kyle writes:
                                              D&D Insider
                                              Went on sale today. Any thoughts?
                                            • Jim Lemaux
                                              ... on the ... Agreed - $8 per month for what amount to dungeon and dragon magazines = pass. Once they finish all the content (and it proves to be useful and
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Oct 15, 2008
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                                                --- In LivingFR@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Bert" <old-oeridians@...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > I couldn't possibly subscribe while the character builder remains
                                                > unavailable let alone the true prize of the deal, the game table
                                                > environment. Why pay? While Wizards cools their heels other people
                                                on the
                                                > Internet are developing even better and free character generators.
                                                > -Roger
                                                >
                                                > Kyle writes:
                                                > D&D Insider
                                                > Went on sale today. Any thoughts?
                                                >

                                                Agreed - $8 per month for what amount to dungeon and dragon magazines
                                                = pass. Once they finish all the content (and it proves to be useful
                                                and user friendly), I may take a look at it. For now, it seems like
                                                its in alpha test phase....
                                              • ladydevil33
                                                I would say more like PRE-test phase, as none of the real features are working yet.    I would also consider ordering after the table top is in place.
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Oct 15, 2008
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                                                  I would say more like PRE-test phase, as none of the real features are working yet. 
                                                   
                                                  I would also consider ordering after the table top is in place. Character generation is also a plus.
                                                   
                                                  Geri Cochrane



                                                  --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Jim Lemaux <lemauxjw@...> wrote:
                                                  From: Jim Lemaux <lemauxjw@...>
                                                  Subject: [LivingFR] Re: D&D Insider
                                                  To: LivingFR@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 9:12 AM

                                                  --- In LivingFR@yahoogroup s.com, "Roger Bert" <old-oeridians@ ...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > I couldn't possibly subscribe while the character builder remains
                                                  > unavailable let alone the true prize of the deal, the game table
                                                  > environment. Why pay? While Wizards cools their heels other people
                                                  on the
                                                  > Internet are developing even better and free character generators.
                                                  > -Roger
                                                  >
                                                  > Kyle writes:
                                                  > D&D Insider
                                                  > Went on sale today. Any thoughts?
                                                  >

                                                  Agreed - $8 per month for what amount to dungeon and dragon magazines
                                                  = pass. Once they finish all the content (and it proves to be useful
                                                  and user friendly), I may take a look at it. For now, it seems like
                                                  its in alpha test phase....


                                                • Casey McGirt
                                                  ... It s $5/month if you buy a year in advance. After seeing what was in Dragon and Dungeon, I decided to go ahead and try it out for a year. $60 is the
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Oct 15, 2008
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                                                    On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 7:12 AM, Jim Lemaux <lemauxjw@...> wrote:
                                                    > Agreed - $8 per month for what amount to dungeon and dragon magazines
                                                    > = pass. Once they finish all the content (and it proves to be useful
                                                    > and user friendly), I may take a look at it. For now, it seems like
                                                    > its in alpha test phase....

                                                    It's $5/month if you buy a year in advance. After seeing what was
                                                    in Dragon and Dungeon, I decided to go ahead and try it out for a
                                                    year. $60 is the price of two gaming books, so if I can get that much
                                                    value out of a year's worth of D&D Insider, I'm happy with the
                                                    purchase.

                                                    Now, I don't see myself shelling out an extra $10/month to get
                                                    access to the online game table. While buggy, OpenRPG and MapTools
                                                    take care of that now, and both programs are free. Heck, all you
                                                    really need is AOL IM and something like Google Spreadsheets - it's
                                                    not fancy, but it gets the job done.

                                                    -Casey

                                                    --
                                                    "Any dolt with half a brain, can see that human kind has gone insane
                                                    to the point where I don't know if I'll upset the status quo
                                                    if I throw poison in the water main..."
                                                    -Dr. Horrible, "Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog"
                                                  • Evan Miller
                                                    ... From: Kyle To: Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: [LivingFR] D&D Insider ... I was
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Oct 16, 2008
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                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      From: "Kyle" <gordonfan88@...>
                                                      To: <LivingFR@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:58 PM
                                                      Subject: [LivingFR] D&D Insider


                                                      > Went on sale today. Any thoughts?

                                                      I was thinking of having scrambled eggs for breakfast with a whole wheat
                                                      english muffin. I really hope this ticket goes smooth this mornign as I
                                                      really don't want to do a rfull reimage of the computer as that will take
                                                      all day. Still need to ow the lawn... oh wait... you didn't just mean any
                                                      thoughts... :P

                                                      Evan
                                                    • Evan Miller
                                                      ... From: Jim Lemaux To: Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:12 AM Subject: [LivingFR] Re: D&D Insider ...
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Oct 16, 2008
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                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: "Jim Lemaux" <lemauxjw@...>
                                                        To: <LivingFR@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:12 AM
                                                        Subject: [LivingFR] Re: D&D Insider


                                                        > Agreed - $8 per month for what amount to dungeon and dragon magazines
                                                        > = pass. Once they finish all the content (and it proves to be useful
                                                        > and user friendly), I may take a look at it. For now, it seems like
                                                        > its in alpha test phase....

                                                        Considering I would pay more than that every month for the two print issues
                                                        of the magazines, it seems like a good deal to me. :)

                                                        Evan
                                                      • Kyle
                                                        very nice. not quite the thought i had in mind, but hell it works i guess... ... wheat ... as I ... take ... mean any
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Oct 16, 2008
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                                                          very nice. not quite the thought i had in mind, but hell it works i
                                                          guess...

                                                          --- In LivingFR@yahoogroups.com, "Evan Miller" <evanmiller@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > I was thinking of having scrambled eggs for breakfast with a whole
                                                          wheat
                                                          > english muffin. I really hope this ticket goes smooth this mornign
                                                          as I
                                                          > really don't want to do a rfull reimage of the computer as that will
                                                          take
                                                          > all day. Still need to ow the lawn... oh wait... you didn't just
                                                          mean any
                                                          > thoughts... :P
                                                          >
                                                          > Evan
                                                          >
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