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Re: [LivingFR] Re: Reward card +s

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  • Ian Hayward
    OK I believe at a basic level if you kill the monster you win, if you die you lose maybe not the best analogy. Maybe not keeping score but racking up XP...its
    Message 1 of 38 , Jul 1, 2009
      OK  I believe at a basic level if you kill the monster you win, if you die you lose maybe not the best analogy. Maybe not keeping score but racking up XP...its a game 99% the monsters lose. (I have not killed a PC yet just for the record)
       
      You gamble every time you throw the die. The only non gamble is to walk away.
       
      The point was you are turning a miss into a hit with a +1. Apologies for trying to use sarcasm I should have realised it would not cross the ether.  You roll the die you miss, the +1 turns it into a hit - what just happened in your PCs world?
       
      If the RPGA or Wizards were worried about cheese they would ban half the powers. Just check this list out for the various discussions. I do not think there is a character out there without at least a small cube of Feta in their pocket. (mine probably have a wedge of chedder each to be fair) Wizards would become a cheese factory if they thought it would make them more money.
       
      Changing direction slightly, what do you want from a game, what makes it enjoyable for you? Regardless of the cards I think we can safely say we disagree on their importance.
       
      I get most of my enjoyment from the social banter around a table, meeting new people at cons and as a DM seeing how different groups approach the challenges within an adventure. I do not go out of my way to make things hard for PCs neither do I help them by giving them information they do not know, or when they should attack or talk to enemies that is their choice. Essentially I try to remain neutral and care for my monsters rather than sacrifice them to the PCs.
       
      When I am playing I get most frustration at my dice not rolling double figures for several rounds.  (last weeekend I had a period of 3 '1s' in 4 rolls, the swordmage stood there and absorbed a beating)  I am not that great a role player so tend not to get immersed in a character.
      I have a Swordmage 10,  rogue 5, Cleric 6, fighter 5, Bard 1. Apart from the Bard I started the other characters at cons so I could fit into a table when a specific role was missing. Like you said I think a balanced party with good tactics/stategy is important and I would not be happy on a table of 6 Clerics for example. I currently have a folder with several 1st level characters ready to go in case I need to drop into a 1-4 to get a game.
      It is more important for me to play than drive a character forward - interestingly my Swordmage has got to 10th probably more through my friends desires to play mods so they can run them for other players. ( We ran SPEC1-2 at the weekend at least 2 probably 4 of us will be running it for others before the end of August)
       
      I also enjoy trying to use my powers in different ways or combinations - My favourite character is my rogue, using his skills to jump off walls or sneak down corridors and pulling off stunts is great fun.
       
      Cheers
       
      Ian
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 3:22 AM
      Subject: Re: [LivingFR] Re: Reward card +s

      Winning or losing only counts in sports, not D&D. Nobody's keeping score in a D&D game, at least that's the aim. As to gambling in D&D, the only gamble that should matter is a risky strategy and shaky teamwork. Otherwise, those "cheesy" cards are there to benefit the players and their characters as a positive, not a potentually wasted, benefit. If the RPGA/WotC saw them as "cheesy" they wouldn't be allowed in an offical game now would they? BTW, noone I know of who runs any sort of character does 50 damage on a miss, not in paragon or heroic level anyway. Besides that sounds a bit overstated.

      --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Ian Hayward <ian_hayward@ btinternet. com> wrote:

      From: Ian Hayward <ian_hayward@ btinternet. com>
      Subject: Re: [LivingFR] Re: Reward card +s
      To: LivingFR@yahoogroup s.com
      Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 5:17 PM

      Jay sounds like he gets his kicks from making the decision. I am not making anyone waste a card neither do I laugh either (not out loud anyhow). Its their decision to make, a gamble. How do you justify 'missing' but doing 50+ dmg in game terms? You missed but hang on the back swing caught him full in the face?
       
      Personally I think the cards are full of cheese anyhow. Yes I use them (if I remember) but I do not get upset or have it spoil my day if I blow one during a game (I am more bothered about my rubbish dice not even getting within 1).
      IMHO you are putting a lot of value on a +1 bonus that should not definitely make a difference unless you have been paying attention.
      Let me ask do you have less 'fun' if you do not use the card at all, either for the text bonus or the +1?
       
      You say you don't want any stress in your game, how can it be 'fun' to win if there is no risk of losing?
       
      Unless you are in the UK we are not likely to meet anyhow so your PCs can live stress free unless I can spread the Evil GM mantra across the pond 8-)
       
      If someone wants to leave my table for any reason they have bigger issues than me and I am happy for them they do not have anything better to worry about than D&D. Up to yet I have had no complaints and plenty of thanks for bothering to give up my time to DM so other people can play. (even when I have had little time to prep and felt I had a bad day at the head of the table)
       
      Cheers
       
      Ian
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:43 PM
      Subject: Re: [LivingFR] Re: Reward card +s

      Jay,
       
      Soooooo.... You think it's fun to waste a bonus from a rewards card on an action that wouldn't succeed anyway? That's not how the cards are supposed to be used. I personally think it's bad form for any DM to torment players by making them second guess themselves. This puts undue stress into a game that's supposed to be fun, not stressful. You only get to use those cards once, it's not fair to make someone waste one on an action that wouldn't succeed. If a DM hates the rewards cards that much, then put together a table of close friends and make a deal not to use them. Don't put a player into a position where a valuable bonus could be wasted and put the odds of success against the players and their characters. I, and I'm sure there are a few others out there, who will raise a stink at any table where this occurs. I'm serious, making a player waste a bonus and then having the DM laugh about it at the table, that is so not cool.

      --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Jay Anderson <IanQuentin@aol. com> wrote:

      From: Jay Anderson <IanQuentin@aol. com>
      Subject: [LivingFR] Re: Reward card +s
      To: LivingFR@yahoogroup s.com
      Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 1:30 PM


      Not looking to start a debate. Just wanted to give an alternative viewpoint. "I" prefer to play my RPGs with as little metagaming as possible and as a result, it's more fun for me to agonize over when I use the card or not. It makes those success with the cards more exhilarating. Obviously, YMMV.

      Jay Anderson

      --- In LivingFR@yahoogroup s.com, Dave McNabb <bonemasterblack@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > Ian,
      >  
      > Remind me NOT to sit at any table where you're DMing. "I" like to have fun when I'm playing and that means NOT wasting a card you can only play once on a roll that could never succeed anyway. That kind of stuff just makes the game frustrating for the players.
      >  
      > Cheers...
      >
      > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Ian Hayward <ian_hayward@ ...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Ian Hayward <ian_hayward@ ...>
      > Subject: Re: [LivingFR] Re: Reward card +s
      > To: LivingFR@yahoogroup s.com
      > Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 10:39 AM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > See this is where we differ, I get a lot of 'fun' out of seeing the disappointment when I say 'no'...
      >  
      > Cheers
      >  
      > Ian
      >  
      > The Evil GM  8-)
      >  
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Casey McGirt
      > To: LivingFR@yahoogroup s.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:31 PM
      > Subject: Re: [LivingFR] Re: Reward card +s
      >
      >
      >
      > On 6/30/09, TomBollis <tombollis@mail. com> wrote:
      > > Per the CCG "You can give any one ally (a character other than your own)
      > > the bonus at any time after a d20 roll has been made." Thus, you can
      > > give the bonus to a character after the result of the roll has been
      > > announced. The only thing I see as ambiguous is whether or not the DM
      > > lets you know whether the use will be effective before the bonus is
      > > given. Shawn Merwin has posted that there is currently no official rule
      > > for that, but the DM has the option of informing the players before the
      > > bonus is given. In my area, the DMs let the players know.
      >
      > LFR is a game where the players and the gamemaster are trying to
      > have fun. It's more fun for me to see a near-miss turn into a hit,
      > than to see a reward card bonus wasted on something that wouldn't hit
      > anyway. So, I tell players (or at least give a strong hint) when a
      > reward card bonus would make the difference.
      >
      > -Casey
      >
      > --
      > "If there is anyone out there who still doubts that America is a place
      > where all things are possible; who still wonders if the dream of our
      > founders is alive in our time; who still questions the power of our
      > democracy, tonight is your answer."
      > -Barack Obama, 11/04/2008
      >



    • Jim Schwartz
      If you do not like the cards you shoul not have them in your home world,  Also if you do not want to use them I fend that acceptable.  I have never been the
      Message 38 of 38 , Jul 3, 2009
        If you do not like the cards you shoul not have them in your home world,  Also if you do not want to use them I fend that acceptable.  I have never been the type to hunt for cheese, I tend to choose what I feel is in character and appropriate not necessarily the most optimal.  I have been yelled at for it before. I will admit to enjoying  the cheese occaisionally in LG for exaple a bard that was a sublime chord, As a whole the cards allow the players another chance which is simply to increase the fun.  Personally I do not find failure particularly fun but if it is your cup a tea so be it.  I think sooner or later problems will be sorted out and cards or powers or feets that are too powerful will get removed.  But until they do enjoy I always did enjoy some good aged gouda,  And they will find it sooner or later.

        James Schwartz



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