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Re: [Lister_CSOG] Heated lines

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  • Ken Boak
    Dennis, Great link to a company that is clearly making products that solve the problem - good find. Good photos showing how they have solved the problem of
    Message 1 of 11 , May 1, 2006
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      Dennis,

      Great link to a company that is clearly making products that solve the
      problem - good find. Good photos showing how they have solved the problem
      of delivering hot oil.

      Interesting that it says to heat the last 4 to 6" of the high pressure line
      , immediately before the injector, and the power of 100W is close to what I
      estimated was needed.


      regards,


      Ken


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "dkwflight" <dkwflight@...>
      To: <Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 1:17 AM
      Subject: [Lister_CSOG] Heated lines


      > Hi group this outfit makes heaters for lines and filters.
      >
      > http://www.fattywagons.com/
      >
      > Dennis
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • marksmbx
      For wire check out.......... http://www.omega.com/pptst/SRME_HEATCABLE.html and http://www.devi.com/ I have used both for conventional domestic under floor
      Message 2 of 11 , May 1, 2006
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        For wire check out..........

        http://www.omega.com/pptst/SRME_HEATCABLE.html

        and

        http://www.devi.com/

        I have used both for conventional domestic under floor heating and
        industrial applications in the past. It is not costly and works well,
        I never had any breakdowns with it.

        Mark

        > Hi group this outfit makes heaters for lines and filters.
        >
        > http://www.fattywagons.com/
        >
        > Dennis
        >
      • Tim Dawson-Stanley
        Archibald, Toaster wire Hmmm, I have already made resistance heaters for my stationary veg oil fuel tanks from electric blankets. do you feel inclined to flesh
        Message 3 of 11 , May 1, 2006
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          Archibald,
          Toaster wire Hmmm, I have already made resistance heaters for my stationary veg oil fuel tanks from electric blankets. do you feel inclined to flesh out this idea a little? What could you use to insulate the wire, how would you get it on? etc

          Rgds
          Tim from Tang

          On 5/1/06, John Archibald <leadminer@...> wrote:
          TOASTERS! How many times to I have to say it???
           
           
          Archibald
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 8:12 PM
          Subject: Re: [Lister_CSOG] Heated lines

          Great stuff, these are hard to find components. Does anybody on the group know where they get the wire for their heaters? Nichrome resistance heating wire with ceramic insulation? If we had a source for this resistance wire we could all make our own fuel line and filter heaters.

          All the Best
          Tim from Tang

          On 5/1/06, dkwflight <dkwflight@... > wrote:
          Hi group this outfit makes heaters for lines and filters.

          http://www.fattywagons.com/

          Dennis






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        • Andy
          Just search for trace heating cable in google or ebay and you have the stuff we are looking, I have installed it many times on external copper water pipes and
          Message 4 of 11 , May 1, 2006
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            Just search for trace heating cable in google or ebay and you have the stuff
            we are looking, I have installed it many times on external copper water
            pipes and never gave it a thought!

            Kind regards

            Andy Mahoney
            17 Harley Walk
            Bramley
            Leeds
            West Yorkshire
            LS13 4PU

            www.groups.yahoo.com/group/homebrewpower
            Home made heating & power from sustainable fuels!

            MolesMail@...
            Mobile: +44 (0)7707 365 588


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of marksmbx
            Sent: 01 May 2006 11:30
            To: Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Lister_CSOG] Re: Heated lines

            For wire check out..........

            http://www.omega.com/pptst/SRME_HEATCABLE.html

            and

            http://www.devi.com/

            I have used both for conventional domestic under floor heating and
            industrial applications in the past. It is not costly and works well,
            I never had any breakdowns with it.

            Mark

            > Hi group this outfit makes heaters for lines and filters.
            >
            > http://www.fattywagons.com/
            >
            > Dennis
            >







            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • John Archibald
            Tim, I was hoping that someone would reply. I ve been at work all day and haven t seen this list until now. The toaster would have enough wire in it and be of
            Message 5 of 11 , May 1, 2006
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              Tim,
               
              I was hoping that someone would reply. I've been at work all day and haven't seen this list until now.
               
              The toaster would have enough wire in it and be of the right length to wire it directly to the mains since that is what it was designed for initially.
               
              So from there you would need insulators. Someone mentioned little ceramic ( alumina ) beads. This could be done, strung on the wire one by one, but one could also use a couple of layers of fiberglass high temperature tape wrapped around the fuel line. Then wrap some glass wool around that, etc.
               
              Another scheme would be to use some carbon blocks machined to fit the fuel line. Clamp them in place and pass a high current through them to resistively heat the fuel line and its contents. Pipes are thawed underground in this country with this method. A welder is the current source. But for Lister fuel lines a current transformer connected to the mains would probably be better.
               
              If you are completely off grid, well one might have to rub a couple of sticks together in the time honored fashion. Let's hope we can think of a better plan.
               
              Archibald
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 5:31 AM
              Subject: Re: [Lister_CSOG] Heated lines

              Archibald,
              Toaster wire Hmmm, I have already made resistance heaters for my stationary veg oil fuel tanks from electric blankets. do you feel inclined to flesh out this idea a little? What could you use to insulate the wire, how would you get it on? etc

              Rgds
              Tim from Tang

              On 5/1/06, John Archibald <leadminer@...> wrote:
              TOASTERS! How many times to I have to say it???
               
               
              Archibald
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 8:12 PM
              Subject: Re: [Lister_CSOG] Heated lines

              Great stuff, these are hard to find components. Does anybody on the group know where they get the wire for their heaters? Nichrome resistance heating wire with ceramic insulation? If we had a source for this resistance wire we could all make our own fuel line and filter heaters.

              All the Best
              Tim from Tang

              On 5/1/06, dkwflight <dkwflight@... > wrote:
              Hi group this outfit makes heaters for lines and filters.

              http://www.fattywagons.com/

              Dennis






              SPONSORED LINKS
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            • Tim Dawson-Stanley
              Hi John, Thanks for the helpful reply. I have been thinking about the insulator issue. What about glass tube? If you heat a glass tube and stretch it it stays
              Message 6 of 11 , May 2, 2006
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                Hi John,
                Thanks for the helpful reply. I have been thinking about the insulator issue. What about glass tube? If you heat a glass tube and stretch it it stays a tube, I might try threading the toaster wire through some glass tube and then heating and stretching the tube as much as possible so that it is snug on the wire. Thin glass tube is quite flexible and might be bendy enough to follow the path of the injector pipe. I will be completely off grid so I would love to use 12 volts rather than 240. Can you advise on wire length? 1/20th of the 240V length? What temperature does the toaster wire reach I wonder? The smoke point of VO is appx 220 deg C so this is our upper temperature limit. If using 12V could I perhaps increase the wire length (from 1/20 to 1/15 perhaps) to lower the temp if necessary?
                Perhaps we can think of some other sort of electrical appliance to donate an element, that might already contain insulated heating wire. I have used electric blanket wire in the past however this does not get hot enough for this application.
                I think that  appx 20W of heating power will be more than adequate to heat ths injector line.
                I have many years experience of running engines on WVO and have found that the oil burns best when delivered to the injector at about 120 deg C. I have never used injector line heating in the past but I have often wished for it.

                Alll the best
                Tim from Tang

                On 5/1/06, John Archibald <leadminer@...> wrote:
                Tim,
                 
                I was hoping that someone would reply. I've been at work all day and haven't seen this list until now.
                 
                The toaster would have enough wire in it and be of the right length to wire it directly to the mains since that is what it was designed for initially.
                 
                So from there you would need insulators. Someone mentioned little ceramic ( alumina ) beads. This could be done, strung on the wire one by one, but one could also use a couple of layers of fiberglass high temperature tape wrapped around the fuel line. Then wrap some glass wool around that, etc.
                 
                Another scheme would be to use some carbon blocks machined to fit the fuel line. Clamp them in place and pass a high current through them to resistively heat the fuel line and its contents. Pipes are thawed underground in this country with this method. A welder is the current source. But for Lister fuel lines a current transformer connected to the mains would probably be better.
                 
                If you are completely off grid, well one might have to rub a couple of sticks together in the time honored fashion. Let's hope we can think of a better plan.
                 
                Archibald
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 5:31 AM
                Subject: Re: [Lister_CSOG] Heated lines

                Archibald,
                Toaster wire Hmmm, I have already made resistance heaters for my stationary veg oil fuel tanks from electric blankets. do you feel inclined to flesh out this idea a little? What could you use to insulate the wire, how would you get it on? etc

                Rgds
                Tim from Tang

                On 5/1/06, John Archibald <leadminer@...> wrote:
                TOASTERS! How many times to I have to say it???
                 
                 
                Archibald
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 8:12 PM
                Subject: Re: [Lister_CSOG] Heated lines

                Great stuff, these are hard to find components. Does anybody on the group know where they get the wire for their heaters? Nichrome resistance heating wire with ceramic insulation? If we had a source for this resistance wire we could all make our own fuel line and filter heaters.

                All the Best
                Tim from Tang

                On 5/1/06, dkwflight <dkwflight@... > wrote:
                Hi group this outfit makes heaters for lines and filters.

                http://www.fattywagons.com/

                Dennis






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              • Ken Boak
                Tim, from the calculations based on fuel flow, specific heat capacity of veg oil, temperature rise and losses, I think you will need closer to 100W for initial
                Message 7 of 11 , May 2, 2006
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                  Tim,
                   
                  from the calculations based on fuel flow, specific heat capacity of veg oil, temperature rise and losses, I think you will need closer to 100W for initial starting. 
                   
                  Specific heat capacity of rape seed oil is     1.67 kJ/kg/K
                  Flow rate  (1.2 litres per hour at 2kW load)
                   
                  Conveniently 1.2 litres is 1kg of oil, so energy to heat 1 kg from 10 C to 100C is
                   
                  1670 x 90 = 150.3 kJ 
                   
                  Divide this by 3600 seconds to get power = 41.75W
                   
                  To be on the safe side, allowing for losses and a quick heat up time, I would go for at least a 100W heating element.
                   
                  By way of experiment, try clamping a 150W automotive glowplug to the high pressure line using a couple of aluminium or copper plates, and wrap up well in rockwool etc.   A "split" aluminium block, drilled to take the glowplug and split so that you can get the hp line clamped in good thermal contact might be one approach.  I suspect however that we want to heat about 4 to 6" of fuel line.
                   


                  Ken
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