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Re: auto start ?

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  • peterhynman
    ... Hi George. There are one or two ways to do this. One is to fit a crown wheel off a transit to your engine wheel and fit a starter motor. Two is to fit a
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 1, 2008
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      --- In Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com,




      Hi George. There are one or two ways to do this. One is to fit a crown
      wheel off a transit to your engine wheel and fit a starter motor. Two
      is to fit a wheel off a sack barrow to an electric motor and slide it
      up to the engine wheel when you want to start it.
      I'm not sure but if the motor started the engine and was left on, the
      motor should turn to a alternator I think???? there sould be some one
      on the list who will help you with that one. (I'm not a sparky)Peter






      "George Shaw" <george.shaw@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks Peter but having read the postings I re read the one I made and
      > I may not made my question clear.
      >
      > How can I rig a starter to start the CS i.e the mechanical system not
      > the electrical detection or command. What starter motor, pulley
      > arrangement, position. and what happens to the starter motor when the
      > CS fires, can it run then as a charger for the battery? thanks.
      >
      > george
      >
      > --- In Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com, "peterhynman" <peterhynman@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi George. Take a look at the posting from nov 07 to xmas and all
      > > your Q will be A. cheer Peter.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com, George Shaw <george.shaw@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Folks I am just getting the ideas and design sorted out for a 6/1
      > > CHP
      > > > but have a question. I want the system to auto start when the
      > > battery
      > > > bank is below a certain point or the house demands more power for
      > > > whatever reason. How can I arrange the engine, alternator, starter
      > > motor
      > > > to provide a auto start feature?
      > > >
      > > > i am thinking along the lines of a 24v alternator taken of the main
      > > > drive charging a starting battery bank that runs a 24v DC motor or
      > > can I
      > > > use the motor to both drive the start cycle and provide the charge?
      > > >
      > > > George
      > > > --
      > > >
      > > > George Shaw (MI3GTO/2I0GTO)
      > > > Bluebell Cottage
      > > > Co Down
      > > > Northern Ireland UK
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Andy Mahoney
      George, Peter, List. I am a Sparky and note as follows. Providing the Motor on the Starting wheel is a PMDC (Permanent Magnet Direct Current) motor then once
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 2, 2008
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        George, Peter, List.

        I am a Sparky and note as follows.

        Providing the Motor on the Starting wheel is a PMDC (Permanent Magnet
        Direct Current) motor then once you run it over synchronous speed then
        it will generate DC Power. Thats OK but the main problem is the output
        is directly linked (Voltage) to the prime mover speed.

        I would not really suggest going down this route as the brushes will
        wear out over time and the DC is wild.

        Why not start like this and couple a car alternator to the setup?
        regulated charging voltage out and no brushes to wear out;

        Andy Mahoney
        www.HomeBrewPower.co.uk


        > Hi George. There are one or two ways to do this. One is to fit a crown
        > wheel off a transit to your engine wheel and fit a starter motor. Two
        > is to fit a wheel off a sack barrow to an electric motor and slide it
        > up to the engine wheel when you want to start it.
        > I'm not sure but if the motor started the engine and was left on, the
        > motor should turn to a alternator I think???? there sould be some one
        > on the list who will help you with that one. (I'm not a sparky)Peter
      • Steve Spence
        our car alternators do have brushes. that s one reason we build axial flux alternators, and use charge controllers. Steve Spence http://www.green-trust.org ...
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 2, 2008
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          our car alternators do have brushes. that's one reason we build axial flux
          alternators, and use charge controllers.

          Steve Spence
          http://www.green-trust.org
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Andy Mahoney" <andy@...>
          To: <Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 7:53 AM
          Subject: [Lister_CSOG] Re: auto start ?


          > George, Peter, List.
          >
          > I am a Sparky and note as follows.
          >
          > Providing the Motor on the Starting wheel is a PMDC (Permanent Magnet
          > Direct Current) motor then once you run it over synchronous speed then
          > it will generate DC Power. Thats OK but the main problem is the output
          > is directly linked (Voltage) to the prime mover speed.
          >
          > I would not really suggest going down this route as the brushes will
          > wear out over time and the DC is wild.
          >
          > Why not start like this and couple a car alternator to the setup?
          > regulated charging voltage out and no brushes to wear out;
          >
          > Andy Mahoney
          > www.HomeBrewPower.co.uk
          >
          >
          >> Hi George. There are one or two ways to do this. One is to fit a crown
          >> wheel off a transit to your engine wheel and fit a starter motor. Two
          >> is to fit a wheel off a sack barrow to an electric motor and slide it
          >> up to the engine wheel when you want to start it.
          >> I'm not sure but if the motor started the engine and was left on, the
          >> motor should turn to a alternator I think???? there sould be some one
          >> on the list who will help you with that one. (I'm not a sparky)Peter
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1255 - Release Date: 2/1/2008
          > 9:59 AM
          >
          >
        • George Shaw
          Interesting and thanks to all who replied. I have access to a DC (48V) high power motors here (they are used in railway points systems) and will probably run
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 2, 2008
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            Interesting and thanks to all who replied. I have access to a DC (48V)
            high power motors here (they are used in railway points systems) and
            will probably run with either a crown wheel or a "tyre" in contact with
            the flywheel. Would I have to disengage the "tyre" once up to speed so
            as not to where the motor? The crown wheel would allow a similar system
            to a car/van starter with the drive being disengaged after starting but
            would I not need some sort of control to keep the power on to the
            starter motor until sync speed was reached as I would want to run this
            fully auto?

            Andy Mahoney wrote:
            >
            >
            > George, Peter, List.
            >
            > I am a Sparky and note as follows.
            >
            > Providing the Motor on the Starting wheel is a PMDC (Permanent Magnet
            > Direct Current) motor then once you run it over synchronous speed then
            > it will generate DC Power. Thats OK but the main problem is the output
            > is directly linked (Voltage) to the prime mover speed.
            >
            > I would not really suggest going down this route as the brushes will
            > wear out over time and the DC is wild.
            >
            > Why not start like this and couple a car alternator to the setup?
            > regulated charging voltage out and no brushes to wear out;
            >
            > Andy Mahoney
            > www.HomeBrewPower.co.uk
            >
            > > Hi George. There are one or two ways to do this. One is to fit a crown
            > > wheel off a transit to your engine wheel and fit a starter motor. Two
            > > is to fit a wheel off a sack barrow to an electric motor and slide it
            > > up to the engine wheel when you want to start it.
            > > I'm not sure but if the motor started the engine and was left on, the
            > > motor should turn to a alternator I think???? there sould be some one
            > > on the list who will help you with that one. (I'm not a sparky)Peter

            --

            George Shaw (MI3GTO/2I0GTO)
            Bluebell Cottage
            Co Down
            Northern Ireland UK
          • derekwmoss
            hi there if you use a starter motor dont leave it engauged or i will blow the windings up on the armature. it will over speed and if it does charge it will
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 2, 2008
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              hi there

              if you use a starter motor dont leave it engauged or i will blow the
              windings up on the armature. it will over speed and if it does charge
              it will cook any batteries.

              if you use a dc motor it would turn in to a generator if it is
              permanant magnet or certain types of wound field only.

              there is a much nicer apracch to a starter ring than the surgested
              method.
              if you buy a oneway bearing and fit it to either end of a vbelt and
              arange it so it only drives under power from the motor as soon as the
              engine starts it would act as a bearing and disconect the drive and
              thus not turn the motor much nicer and they come in imperial sizes
              and would just push onto the main shaft and leaave the belt drive
              stationary as well.

              if you want to use a motor as a dynastart i would use either a shunt
              wound or a compound wound motor of the voltage you want to charge.

              i would arange the motor with a belt drive to make the motor turn at
              about 10 to 20 % overspeed when the lister is at full revs. this
              should give a good starting ratio for the motor and enough speed to
              charge at full load current of the motor. the ideal size of motor for
              a six hp lister would be around 2 to 3 kw. but dont expect the lister
              to give more than say 1.5 to 2 kw output for a sustained period.

              once this is done yo then need to make a regulator similar to an
              alternator unit on a car to control the voltage on the shunt field
              windings and thus control the output voltage from the now genny or
              you could just put a resistor in the shunt winding cct and use the
              govenor on the lister to control the voltage out but i dont recomend
              this as the govenor may over rrun and cook the bateries. but ken uses
              this method and seams to have no trouble with it.

              as an aside i can get 2.65kw dc 24V motors of the right type but they
              would be in excess of £600 just to buy the motors that is why i dont
              think this is a goer unless you already have the motors.

              if any one has a motor i can get it going and manufacture a reg if
              they want to and tell you how to conect it up if you want me to. and
              if needed make any special pulleys as required. but you will need to
              contact me off list.

              thanks derek!!!!!!!!



              --- In Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com, "peterhynman" <peterhynman@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > --- In Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com,
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi George. There are one or two ways to do this. One is to fit a
              crown
              > wheel off a transit to your engine wheel and fit a starter motor.
              Two
              > is to fit a wheel off a sack barrow to an electric motor and slide
              it
              > up to the engine wheel when you want to start it.
              > I'm not sure but if the motor started the engine and was left on,
              the
              > motor should turn to a alternator I think???? there sould be some
              one
              > on the list who will help you with that one. (I'm not a sparky)Peter
              >
              >
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