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Re: [Lister_CSOG] Re: [WoodGas] Re: Late night Listering - it runs on wood gas at 17:1 compression ratio.

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  • Dave
    I have several MSD units and I have found that an MSD unit can allow a engine to run ok, that would otherwise not run at all. The MSD unit can make up for a
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 7, 2012
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      I have several MSD units and I have found that an MSD unit can allow a engine to run ok, that would otherwise not run at all. 

      The MSD unit can make up for a lot of tuning/poor carbureation (sp?)/bad gas sins.

      I'd look for a source of low cost MSD type units instead of trying to engineer it out of the system.   Chips and circuitry are pretty cheap now.  An alternator scavenged from a car, a used battery and you are good to go.   

      Even the Ford Model T had a type of MSD unit - the Ford buzz box ignition.   Crude, but it worked.


      On 4/6/2012 3:39 PM, ron ohler wrote:  

      Hi Ken,
      I understand the want for a simple magneto type ignition system. The MSD unit I quickly fitted is a spark monster. Scary powerful item. Don't want to get a poke from that.

      I had some items I particularly liked about your system. The retard was nice to aid in finding the "sweet" spot for ignition advance. The other is the fact that it will spark as long as a magnet is in front of the sensor. What this means is that while you had us use a small disk magnet there is no reason I know of that would preclude us from using a larger magnet - or magnets - to increase the spark duration. It is considered a benefit to have a longer duration in addition to the multi discharge that both your system and the MSD offered. For increasing the duration with your unit I'm specifically thinking of some hard drive magnets I'd picked up years back off of eBay that were kidney shaped and thinner than the disc magnet we were using. These were about .75" wide and 1.6" long by maybe .100" thick.

      I presume it is not difficult for you to present a system with the original capabilities and maybe even an additional amplifier circuit. This could be potted for durability.

      Ron O
      --- On Thu, 4/5/12, Ken Boak <ken.boak@...> wrote:

      From: Ken Boak <ken.boak@...>
      Subject: Re: [Lister_CSOG] Re: [WoodGas] Re: Late night Listering - it runs on wood gas at 17:1 compression ratio.
      To: Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com, "jim mason" <jim@...>
      Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 6:54 PM


      Hi Jason

      I was surprised to see the timing so advanced - we were previously working around 30 degrees, but with the MSD unit it runs sweetly at 57 degrees.

      There's no plan to have variable timing - apart from on this research engine. 

      We ultimately want to come up with a robust reliable ignition circuit - probably based on a magneto/coil - from a small gasoline engine - so we can eliminate the battery and any further complications.

      The beauty of the diesel CS is that you only need diesel and a starting handle to start it up - I am trying to ultimately maintain some of those great qualities.

      If I get any spare time this weekend - I hope to do some further tests -and set up the throttle for 650rpm 60Hz operation and do some further experiments with our dump load.

      I then need to figure out some sort of a 2 way valve (Y or T valve?) which allows progressive operation from 100% diesel on startup - to 100% woodgas for running.  There are the conflicting requirements of feeding atmospheric air for diesel operation, and virtually almost closing the air intake - except a narrow crack, so as to get maximum suction for the gasifier, and the right gas/air mix.

      There's a lot still to do, but now we have a stable working set-up, the progress from this point should be somewhat quicker.

      I'm back in the UK for a couple of weeks in April - I might even get a chance to get my gasifier connected to one of my Listers.


      On 5 April 2012 13:23, Jason Piegari <jpiegari@...> wrote:

      Excellent news Ken!  I was wondering if you would try something like an MSD unit.  Being familiar with them I know they fire multiple sparks for a duration as opposed to a single firing from a standard points type ignition.  What controls the duration of the firing in this configuration, would it be the size of the ferrous washer?  Do you think you might try a longer duration to try to maximize the fuel burn? (ie multiple washers)

      Wow, 57 degrees advance is quite extraordinary.  So the burn rate of woodgas is much slower than that of more traditional fuels.  Do you believe this will vary greatly with the gas composition?  And are you ultimately trying to automatically vary the timing based on these factors?

      Thanks so much,
      Jason (newbie)

      From: Ken Boak <ken.boak@...>
      To: Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 3:55 PM
      Subject: Re: [Lister_CSOG] Re: [WoodGas] Re: Late night Listering - it runs on wood gas at 17:1 compression ratio.


      Just to say that the Lister is running sweetly with it's MSD spark ignition unit.

      We are producing 2750 W at the output of the alternator at 600rpm.

      What fooled us was the amount of advance we needed - the sensor is triggered by a ferrous washer placed a full 12" on the rim before TDC. On a 24" diameter flywheel that equates to 57 degrees BTDC!

      We will be doing more tests on power and fuel consumption as and when we can fit them in - but at least we now have the system running smoothly.


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