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Need Help with #313 Bascule Bridge

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  • Art Fernandez
    I recently picked up a #313 Bascule Bridge in fairly good physical condition. It was clear at the time I bought it that it would need a good cleaning of the
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 2, 2008
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      I recently picked up a #313 Bascule Bridge in fairly good physical
      condition. It was clear at the time I bought it that it would need a
      good cleaning of the motor and the bridge assembly after being in
      storage for so long. After a thorough cleaning, I tested the bridge
      with A/C current on posts 1 and 2 followed by posts 1 and 3 (as
      outlined in Greenburgs). While the motor and gear box did turn, it
      failed to trigger the bridge to rise or fall.

      At first I thought it might be the spring tension needing adjustment
      (although I have some doubts about what the right setting should be),
      but making adjustments don't seem to affect the bridge at all. I have
      confirmed that the motor is engaging the gear box and the turn post on
      the right pillar by the shanty is turning. However, the one thing I
      have noticed is that the vertical bar that attaches to the turn post
      at the gear box slide up and down and does not seem to trigger the
      bridge. Instead the lower slotted screw point of the vertical bar
      merely slides up and down as the turn post moves.

      Not having owned a Bascule bridge in the past, and in the absence of a
      detailed parts list, I am looking for some advice on getting this to
      work. All reference points that I know of (Greenbergs, Classic Toy
      Trains, etc) are entirely silent on this. It could be that I am
      missing a washer or a small part at the point where the vertical bar
      attaches at the gear box, but there are no parts blow-outs on the
      bridge that I am aware of.

      Any advice from the group would be greatly appreciated.

      Thanks,

      Art
    • cbrumbelow@comcast.net
      I would look for loose or missing set screws. If set screws were used, it is very likely the shaft has a corresponding flat spot, so if the screw was not on
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 3, 2008
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        I would look for loose or missing set screws. If set screws were used, it is very likely the shaft has a corresponding flat spot, so if the screw was not on the flat spot when it was tightened, it very likely slid loose. http://trains.com/ctt/default.aspx?c=a&id=966 confirms your observation about the lack of available diagrams, and adds the comforting thought that the post-1969 bridges are different inside anyway. You might touch base with alcoxtrains, a regular eBay seller, who has been in the collectible toy trains business for -- literally -- decades. Charles

        -------------- Original message --------------
        From: "Art Fernandez" <artfer01@...>

        > I recently picked up a #313 Bascule Bridge in fairly good physical
        > condition. It was clear at the time I bought it that it would need a
        > good cleaning of the motor and the bridge assembly after being in
        > storage for so long. After a thorough cleaning, I tested the bridge
        > with A/C current on posts 1 and 2 followed by posts 1 and 3 (as
        > outlined in Greenburgs). While the motor and gear box did turn, it
        > failed to trigger the bridge to rise or fall.
        >
        > At first I thought it might be the spring tension needing adjustment
        > (although I have some doubts about what the right setting should be),
        > but making adjustments don't seem to affect the bridge at all. I have
        > confirmed that the motor is engaging the gear box and the turn post on
        > the right pillar by the shanty is turning. However, the one thing I
        > have noticed is that the vertical bar that attaches to the turn post
        > at the gear box slide up and down and does not seem to trigger the
        > bridge. Instead the lower slotted screw point of the vertical bar
        > merely slides up and down as the turn post moves.
        >
        > Not having owned a Bascule bridge in the past, and in the absence of a
        > detailed parts list, I am looking for some advice on getting this to
        > work. All reference points that I know of (Greenbergs, Classic Toy
        > Trains, etc) are entirely silent on this. It could be that I am
        > missing a washer or a small part at the point where the vertical bar
        > attaches at the gear box, but there are no parts blow-outs on the
        > bridge that I am aware of.
        >
        > Any advice from the group would be greatly appreciated.
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Art

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mgraziano1
        I ll take a look at my bridge tonight, but there should be a set screw on the lower portion of the vertical bar that keeps it on the shaft. Is the cam
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 3, 2008
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          I'll take a look at my bridge tonight, but there should be a set screw on
          the lower portion of the vertical bar that keeps it on the shaft. Is the
          cam attached to your shaft?



          Take a few photos of the lower section of the bridge in the gearbox and
          shaft area and email them to me. I spent a lot of time rebuilding mine. I
          wish my memory wasn't so short term.



          Mike



          _____

          From: Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Art Fernandez
          Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 12:52 AM
          To: Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Lionel_PostwarTrains] Need Help with #313 Bascule Bridge



          I recently picked up a #313 Bascule Bridge in fairly good physical
          condition. It was clear at the time I bought it that it would need a
          good cleaning of the motor and the bridge assembly after being in
          storage for so long. After a thorough cleaning, I tested the bridge
          with A/C current on posts 1 and 2 followed by posts 1 and 3 (as
          outlined in Greenburgs). While the motor and gear box did turn, it
          failed to trigger the bridge to rise or fall.

          At first I thought it might be the spring tension needing adjustment
          (although I have some doubts about what the right setting should be),
          but making adjustments don't seem to affect the bridge at all. I have
          confirmed that the motor is engaging the gear box and the turn post on
          the right pillar by the shanty is turning. However, the one thing I
          have noticed is that the vertical bar that attaches to the turn post
          at the gear box slide up and down and does not seem to trigger the
          bridge. Instead the lower slotted screw point of the vertical bar
          merely slides up and down as the turn post moves.

          Not having owned a Bascule bridge in the past, and in the absence of a
          detailed parts list, I am looking for some advice on getting this to
          work. All reference points that I know of (Greenbergs, Classic Toy
          Trains, etc) are entirely silent on this. It could be that I am
          missing a washer or a small part at the point where the vertical bar
          attaches at the gear box, but there are no parts blow-outs on the
          bridge that I am aware of.

          Any advice from the group would be greatly appreciated.

          Thanks,

          Art





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mgraziano1
          Good luck getting a response from Al. I ve tried contacting him at lease half a dozen times in the past three years and he never responds any more. He is
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 3, 2008
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            Good luck getting a response from Al. I've tried contacting him at lease
            half a dozen times in the past three years and he never responds any more.
            He is getting up there in age, though.







            _____

            From: Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            cbrumbelow@...
            Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:04 AM
            To: Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Lionel_PostwarTrains] Need Help with #313 Bascule Bridge



            I would look for loose or missing set screws. If set screws were used, it is
            very likely the shaft has a corresponding flat spot, so if the screw was not
            on the flat spot when it was tightened, it very likely slid loose.
            http://trains. <http://trains.com/ctt/default.aspx?c=a&id=966>
            com/ctt/default.aspx?c=a&id=966 confirms your observation about the lack of
            available diagrams, and adds the comforting thought that the post-1969
            bridges are different inside anyway. You might touch base with alcoxtrains,
            a regular eBay seller, who has been in the collectible toy trains business
            for -- literally -- decades. Charles

            -------------- Original message --------------
            From: "Art Fernandez" <artfer01@yahoo. <mailto:artfer01%40yahoo.com> com>

            > I recently picked up a #313 Bascule Bridge in fairly good physical
            > condition. It was clear at the time I bought it that it would need a
            > good cleaning of the motor and the bridge assembly after being in
            > storage for so long. After a thorough cleaning, I tested the bridge
            > with A/C current on posts 1 and 2 followed by posts 1 and 3 (as
            > outlined in Greenburgs). While the motor and gear box did turn, it
            > failed to trigger the bridge to rise or fall.
            >
            > At first I thought it might be the spring tension needing adjustment
            > (although I have some doubts about what the right setting should be),
            > but making adjustments don't seem to affect the bridge at all. I have
            > confirmed that the motor is engaging the gear box and the turn post on
            > the right pillar by the shanty is turning. However, the one thing I
            > have noticed is that the vertical bar that attaches to the turn post
            > at the gear box slide up and down and does not seem to trigger the
            > bridge. Instead the lower slotted screw point of the vertical bar
            > merely slides up and down as the turn post moves.
            >
            > Not having owned a Bascule bridge in the past, and in the absence of a
            > detailed parts list, I am looking for some advice on getting this to
            > work. All reference points that I know of (Greenbergs, Classic Toy
            > Trains, etc) are entirely silent on this. It could be that I am
            > missing a washer or a small part at the point where the vertical bar
            > attaches at the gear box, but there are no parts blow-outs on the
            > bridge that I am aware of.
            >
            > Any advice from the group would be greatly appreciated.
            >
            > Thanks,
            >
            > Art

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • cbrumbelow@comcast.net
            FWIW, there is a parts list (no drawings) for the 313 bridge in Greenberg s prewar Lionel repair and operating instructions manual. If that might help, I can
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 4, 2008
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              FWIW, there is a parts list (no drawings) for the 313 bridge in Greenberg's prewar Lionel repair and operating instructions manual. If that might help, I can photograph it and email/post the photo. Charles

              > Not having owned a Bascule bridge in the past, and in the absence of a
              > detailed parts list, I am looking for some advice on getting this to
              > work. All reference points that I know of (Greenbergs, Classic Toy
              > Trains, etc) are entirely silent on this. It could be that I am
              > missing a washer or a small part at the point where the vertical bar
              > attaches at the gear box, but there are no parts blow-outs on the
              > bridge that I am aware of.
              >
              > Any advice from the group would be greatly appreciated.
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              > Art

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • anschwartz02
              Supposedly, the Train Collector s Association offers an information packet about the no. 313 for $7.50 from their reference library. Also, this site seems to
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 4, 2008
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                Supposedly, the Train Collector's Association offers an information
                packet about the no. 313 for $7.50 from their reference library.

                Also, this site seems to offer a number of replacement parts:

                http://mytrainpartsusa.com/PAGE3.html

                ... Andy

                <<I recently picked up a #313 Bascule Bridge in fairly good physical
                condition. It was clear at the time I bought it that it would need a
                good cleaning of the motor and the bridge assembly after being in
                storage for so long. After a thorough cleaning, I tested the bridge
                with A/C current on posts 1 and 2 followed by posts 1 and 3 (as
                outlined in Greenburgs). While the motor and gear box did turn, it
                failed to trigger the bridge to rise or fall.>>
              • anschwartz02
                I have uploaded a parts list for the 313 Bascule Bridge into the Files section of this group. ... Andy
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 4, 2008
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                  I have uploaded a parts list for the 313 Bascule Bridge into the Files
                  section of this group.

                  ... Andy
                • Art Fernandez
                  Mike, I think the photo/scan of the prewar parts list would be helpful as I do not have a copy of the prewar guide. Using your advice last night I brought the
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 4, 2008
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                    Mike,

                    I think the photo/scan of the prewar parts list would be helpful as I
                    do not have a copy of the prewar guide.

                    Using your advice last night I brought the cam shaft and top cam back
                    180 degrees to eliminate the 45 degree angle by loosening the bridge
                    screw on the pillar. That seemed to deal with the slippage on the
                    shaft and also engaged the bridge mechanism on the right pillar, but
                    when I tried it with the motor it did not lift the bridge at all.
                    Instead, the lower cam turned for a bit, but brought the motor to a
                    screaching halt (no damage fortunately).

                    There is something more to this. I think I will have hit you up on
                    your offer for an offline chat and photos from your bridge to figure
                    this out. Assuming the shaft and cams are aligned properly and with
                    proper spring tension, the bridge should work.

                    Of course what makes this even more "fun" is that there is so little
                    documentation on repair/parts blow-outs of post-war bascules
                    (Greenbergs, and Plummer's book notwithstanding). Very puzzled by
                    this challenge.

                    --- In Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com, cbrumbelow@... wrote:
                    >
                    > FWIW, there is a parts list (no drawings) for the 313 bridge in
                    Greenberg's prewar Lionel repair and operating instructions manual.
                    If that might help, I can photograph it and email/post the photo. Charles
                    >
                    > > Not having owned a Bascule bridge in the past, and in the absence
                    of a
                    > > detailed parts list, I am looking for some advice on getting this to
                    > > work. All reference points that I know of (Greenbergs, Classic Toy
                    > > Trains, etc) are entirely silent on this. It could be that I am
                    > > missing a washer or a small part at the point where the vertical bar
                    > > attaches at the gear box, but there are no parts blow-outs on the
                    > > bridge that I am aware of.
                    > >
                    > > Any advice from the group would be greatly appreciated.
                    > >
                    > > Thanks,
                    > >
                    > > Art
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • kennybaughman
                    Hello Trainmen! Over the memorial day weekend,I started to finish a restoration of a #313 Bascule Bridge I disassembled almost two years ago. Like the genius I
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 29, 2014
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                      Hello Trainmen! Over the memorial day weekend,I started to finish a restoration of a #313 Bascule Bridge I disassembled almost two years ago.

                      Like the genius I sometimes am,I forgot to take photos or make a drawing when I disassembled it.

                      I have it almost back together,but am having trouble figuring out how the rod that connects to the motor goes back on.I have the other side figured out (I think!)and have the tension spring back in place.

                      I am having problems with figuring out how to connect the rod to the motor and bridge itself properly.I tried for 4 hours last night,adjusting the tension spring,trying different postions of mounting the rod,but still it is not right.


                      Before I take it to the hobby shop,I thought I would see if any of you guys know how to put one of these back together properly.


                      Any help sure would be nice.Happy Railroading-Kenny Baughman

                    • Ambika Parks
                      Depends, do you have the postwar or prewar version?   Andy On Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:58 PM, kennybaughman@yahoo.com [Lionel_PostwarTrains]
                      Message 10 of 14 , May 29, 2014
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                        Depends, do you have the postwar or prewar version?
                         
                        Andy


                        On Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:58 PM, "kennybaughman@... [Lionel_PostwarTrains]" <Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                         
                        Hello Trainmen! Over the memorial day weekend,I started to finish a restoration of a #313 Bascule Bridge I disassembled almost two years ago.
                        Like the genius I sometimes am,I forgot to take photos or make a drawing when I disassembled it.
                        I have it almost back together,but am having trouble figuring out how the rod that connects to the motor goes back on.I have the other side figured out (I think!)and have the tension spring back in place.
                        I am having problems with figuring out how to connect the rod to the motor and bridge itself properly.I tried for 4 hours last night,adjusting the tension spring,trying different postions of mounting the rod,but still it is not right.

                        Before I take it to the hobby shop,I thought I would see if any of you guys know how to put one of these back together properly.

                        Any help sure would be nice.Happy Railroading-Kenny Baughman


                      • Ambika Parks
                        On , Ambika Parks wrote: Depends, do you have the postwar or prewar version?   Andy On Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:58 PM,
                        Message 11 of 14 , May 29, 2014
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                          On , Ambika Parks <m1raje@...> wrote:


                          Depends, do you have the postwar or prewar version?
                           
                          Andy


                          On Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:58 PM, "kennybaughman@... [Lionel_PostwarTrains]" <Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                           
                          Hello Trainmen! Over the memorial day weekend,I started to finish a restoration of a #313 Bascule Bridge I disassembled almost two years ago.
                          Like the genius I sometimes am,I forgot to take photos or make a drawing when I disassembled it.
                          I have it almost back together,but am having trouble figuring out how the rod that connects to the motor goes back on.I have the other side figured out (I think!)and have the tension spring back in place.
                          I am having problems with figuring out how to connect the rod to the motor and bridge itself properly.I tried for 4 hours last night,adjusting the tension spring,trying different postions of mounting the rod,but still it is not right.

                          Before I take it to the hobby shop,I thought I would see if any of you guys know how to put one of these back together properly.

                          Any help sure would be nice.Happy Railroading-Kenny Baughman




                        • kennybaughman
                          Hello Again, I would like to add that I have never seen this bridge actually operate.It was a bloody mess of scrap when I acquired it.The Bottom bakelite piece
                          Message 12 of 14 , May 29, 2014
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                            Hello Again,

                            I would like to add that I have never seen this bridge actually operate.It was a bloody mess of scrap when I acquired it.The Bottom bakelite piece where the rails are was broken,and it sure needed a lot of 'bodywork",but it seemed complete,as there was charring underneath the motor,where it looked like two bare wires had touched each other.

                            The first thing I did was take the bridge section apart from the motor section,then I rewired it according to the wiring diagram(which is available!),and presto!!,the motor started working.It looks like there is a contact relay of sorts underneath also.


                            But first I am just trying to get the bridge to go up and down by 'hotwiring" it with two leads,one touching one of the brushes,and the other going to the coil.

                            Once I figure out(with the help from you fine gentlemen)how to connect that rod on the motor side(to get it going up and down).I'll get into the 'automatic part of it later.


                            I will never take something apart again without taking pictures or making a drawing(Yeah,right!) ,but seriously,this was the wrong piece not to make a drawing of or photograph before disassembly.

                            Lionel is always so great with their exploded diagrams,I just ASSumed the #313 would have one as well.They got us good on this one,but I cannot complain.Many clueless mysteries have been solved and missing parts identified with the exploded diagrams.-


                            Where is Tom at?   Maybe he would know.If anyone does,it's him.


                            tmackinator,where are you?????-Kenny Baughman

                          • mlaughlinnyc
                            Ken, your timing was great ! I m just finishing the renovation of one 313, and I ve got another to do. I ve got some other questions to throw out to the
                            Message 13 of 14 , May 31, 2014
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                              Ken, your timing was great !  I'm just finishing the renovation of one 313, and I've got another to do.  I've got some other questions to throw out to the group.  Hope there's someone out there who has worked with this bridge.

                              I have two bridges.  I've taken both apart to the level of removing and disassembling the piers, sprog mechanism, gearbox and cabin.  I've used the best of the two of each kind of part to make one really nice bridge that works well.   I'd be glad to have a phone conversation with you and see if I can talk you through the assembly.  Call me any time between 10 a and 10p EST.

                              Now my questions to the group experts.

                              1. The base is warped so that when one corner is fastened down the diagonally opposite corner is 1/4 inch up.  That is fixable by screwing down opposite corners.  Using the frame, the bridge track didn't line up with the frame track.  The fix to that is to push hard on one corner of the frame and screw it down.  IT also helped to place a 1/32 shim under opposite corners of the towers.

                              I'm curious as to whether this warping problem is typical of this 65 year old item.  The second bridge base is off by 3/16..

                              2 The second motor is problematic, and I'm thinking of replacing it.  I saw one sell on Ebay recently for $26, and I thinking about whether a working bridge would sell for enough more to make it worth the trouble. 

                              If I did change the motor, how do I get the coupling spring off ?  Has anyone done this.

                              3. Has there been a magazine article on how to repair this item ?  There is an article about it in the book "Toy Train Repair Made Easy". but that book is extremely expensive.

                              Someone may think I'm a bit nutty for having two of these monsters.  Actually I didn't buy them.  They are part of a collection that I'm renovating for the owner and selling on Ebay on a commission basis   So I have the fun of playing with Lionel goodies for a while without putting money up front.  I'm an operator, not a collector.

                              Give me a call Ken if you want to talk about the bridge.

                              Malcolm Laughlin
                              Belmont, MA
                              617-489-4383
                            • kennybaughman
                              Malcolm,I phoned you last night and left a message on your machine.I have all of the diagrams and part numbers for the Flying Yankee,and a source for you to
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jun 2, 2014
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                                Malcolm,I phoned you last night and left a message on your machine.I have all of the diagrams and part numbers for the Flying Yankee,and a source for you to get them from.Phone me back,or I will try you again tomorrow evening around 7p.m.-KennyBaughman

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