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Harmonising Power.

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  • petethegricer
    I plan to convert my remote controlled 0-27 switch to an independant supply, rather than from the that supplied from the controller through the track. But i
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 13, 2014
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      I plan to convert my remote controlled 0-27 switch to an independant supply, rather than from the that supplied from the controller through the track.

      But i understand the two sources of supply have to be harmonised, since the commons will be common in the switch.

      So i have to ensure supplies from the variable voltage controller and constant voltage supply are phased and parelled hot to hot and common to common.

      .

      The set up for for the variable controller is similar to what you might have in the States, but here in the UK we dont have 120v @ 60HZ AC, It's 230v Nom: @ 50HZ AC, so we have to use a separate locally made transformer, it's output of 18v AC  being plugged into (in my case) a Railking Zcontroller, for variable voltage output.

      The terminals on my indipendant power supply are not well marked, but i'm certain i have identified the hot and common, the wire's from there are taken to the Zcontroller, going in through a center and outer pin plug, though i dont know which is hot or common. The outputs from the Zcontroller have red and black knobs, so i assume they are hot and common respectively. (all this was made up for me by a Lional dealer)

      .

      My constant voltage is from an older Marklin variable voltage controller set to 14v, and the terminals are marked like hot and common, so i beleive i have that understood.

      But to satisfy myself that i wont blow up when i swith it all on, is there a way i can test for hot and common outputs using a multimeter?? or some other method??

      .   

      Peter Bird. England UK.

    • Gary Glaenzer
      OK, quick tutorial hook one terminal of the fixed supply to the C ( common , outside rail) terminal of the variable supply now set the variable supply to
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 13, 2014
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        OK, quick tutorial
         
        hook one terminal of the fixed supply to the 'C' ('common', outside rail) terminal of the variable supply
         
        now set the variable supply to near the voltage of the fixed supply
         
        measure between the other terminal of the fixed supply and the variable terminal of the variable supply
         
        you should see near zero volts, if you swing the variable from 0 to full open, you will see measured volts go from the fixed voltage, drop to zero and climb back up as you pass the 'fixed' voltage
         
        if you see this, they are in phase
         
        if you see double the fixed voltage, with the variable set close to the fixed voltage, and it increases and decreases with the variable supply, then you have to reverse the terminals at the fixed supply.  Or reverse the line plug in the receptacle, take your pick
         
        Line cord plugs :  MARK THEM WITH WHITE PAINT,  on the side that goes to the wider slot in the receptacle, when you have it correct. 
         
        Also go to Home Depot and get their 5-different-colors-of-electrical-tape pack for about 4 bucks and use it to ID wires vs terminals on all power sources
         
        Otherwise you get to do this every time they get unplugged........
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2014 4:28 PM
        Subject: [Lionel_PostwarTrains] Harmonising Power.

         


        I plan to convert my remote controlled 0-27 switch to an independant supply, rather than from the that supplied from the controller through the track.

        But i understand the two sources of supply have to be harmonised, since the commons will be common in the switch.

        So i have to ensure supplies from the variable voltage controller and constant voltage supply are phased and parelled hot to hot and common to common.

        .

        The set up for for the variable controller is similar to what you might have in the States, but here in the UK we dont have 120v @ 60HZ AC, It's 230v Nom: @ 50HZ AC, so we have to use a separate locally made transformer, it's output of 18v AC  being plugged into (in my case) a Railking Zcontroller, for variable voltage output.

        The terminals on my indipendant power supply are not well marked, but i'm certain i have identified the hot and common, the wire's from there are taken to the Zcontroller, going in through a center and outer pin plug, though i dont know which is hot or common. The outputs from the Zcontroller have red and black knobs, so i assume they are hot and common respectively. (all this was made up for me by a Lional dealer)

        .

        My constant voltage is from an older Marklin variable voltage controller set to 14v, and the terminals are marked like hot and common, so i beleive i have that understood.

        But to satisfy myself that i wont blow up when i swith it all on, is there a way i can test for hot and common outputs using a multimeter?? or some other method??

        .   

        Peter Bird. England UK.

      • Charles Brumbelow
        If your transformers outputs are pure basic AC - no electronics involved - connect the two wires you think are commons together. Then set the variable output
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 13, 2014
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          If your transformers outputs are pure basic AC - no electronics involved - connect the two wires you think are commons together. Then set the variable output as close as possible to the voltage of the fixed output. Then quickly touch the two non- connected wires together. A spark will be generated if the two transformers are out of sync. Unless the plugs for wall outlets can only be inserted one way, mark said plugs so you will know which way to plug them in next time. Charles

          On Jul 13, 2014, at 5:28 PM, "peter.frederickbird@... [Lionel_PostwarTrains]" <Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

           


          I plan to convert my remote controlled 0-27 switch to an independant supply, rather than from the that supplied from the controller through the track.

          But i understand the two sources of supply have to be harmonised, since the commons will be common in the switch.

          So i have to ensure supplies from the variable voltage controller and constant voltage supply are phased and parelled hot to hot and common to common.

          .

          The set up for for the variable controller is similar to what you might have in the States, but here in the UK we dont have 120v @ 60HZ AC, It's 230v Nom: @ 50HZ AC, so we have to use a separate locally made transformer, it's output of 18v AC  being plugged into (in my case) a Railking Zcontroller, for variable voltage output.

          The terminals on my indipendant power supply are not well marked, but i'm certain i have identified the hot and common, the wire's from there are taken to the Zcontroller, going in through a center and outer pin plug, though i dont know which is hot or common. The outputs from the Zcontroller have red and black knobs, so i assume they are hot and common respectively. (all this was made up for me by a Lional dealer)

          .

          My constant voltage is from an older Marklin variable voltage controller set to 14v, and the terminals are marked like hot and common, so i beleive i have that understood.

          But to satisfy myself that i wont blow up when i swith it all on, is there a way i can test for hot and common outputs using a multimeter?? or some other method??

          .   

          Peter Bird. England UK.

        • Charles Brumbelow
          You will need to disconnect the switch motors (solenoids) from the center rails inside the switches. Charles
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 13, 2014
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            You will need to disconnect the switch motors (solenoids) from the center rails inside the switches. Charles

            On Jul 13, 2014, at 5:28 PM, "peter.frederickbird@... [Lionel_PostwarTrains]" <Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

             


            I plan to convert my remote controlled 0-27 switch to an independant supply, rather than from the that supplied from the controller through the track.

            But i understand the two sources of supply have to be harmonised, since the commons will be common in the switch.

            So i have to ensure supplies from the variable voltage controller and constant voltage supply are phased and parelled hot to hot and common to common.

            .

            The set up for for the variable controller is similar to what you might have in the States, but here in the UK we dont have 120v @ 60HZ AC, It's 230v Nom: @ 50HZ AC, so we have to use a separate locally made transformer, it's output of 18v AC  being plugged into (in my case) a Railking Zcontroller, for variable voltage output.

            The terminals on my indipendant power supply are not well marked, but i'm certain i have identified the hot and common, the wire's from there are taken to the Zcontroller, going in through a center and outer pin plug, though i dont know which is hot or common. The outputs from the Zcontroller have red and black knobs, so i assume they are hot and common respectively. (all this was made up for me by a Lional dealer)

            .

            My constant voltage is from an older Marklin variable voltage controller set to 14v, and the terminals are marked like hot and common, so i beleive i have that understood.

            But to satisfy myself that i wont blow up when i swith it all on, is there a way i can test for hot and common outputs using a multimeter?? or some other method??

            .   

            Peter Bird. England UK.

          • trainlarry
            Peter, It seems like you have one fixed output transformer hooked up to an MTH Z Controller, and a Marklin variable transformer that you are trying to phase
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 14, 2014
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              Peter,
              It seems like you have one fixed output transformer hooked up to an MTH Z Controller, and a Marklin variable transformer that you are trying to phase together. Follow Charles' recommendation to quickly find out if your transformers are in phase or not if you do not have a voltmeter. The problem is (from a quick internet search), your (3 prong) plugs in England cannot be simply reversed like here in the USA, so if your transformers are not in phase, you may need to cut the plug off of one transformer and rewire the plug. Another solution is to rewire the plug that goes into the Z Controller.

              Am curious how the 50 cycle power there affects the electronics in your trains, ie. reverse units, bell and whistle, etc.

              Larry
            • petethegricer
              Fingers Crossed i ll try your suggestion Charles.
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 14, 2014
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                Fingers Crossed i'll try your suggestion Charles.
              • petethegricer
                And i ll try your idea Garry, thanks.
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 14, 2014
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                  And i'll try your idea Garry, thanks.
                • Willard Seehorn
                  I m cleaning out my garage and found Lionel catalogs for: 1974 -- O27 1976 -- O/O27 1977 -- O/O27 Before I put them in the recycling bin I thought I d see if
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 14, 2014
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                    I'm cleaning out my garage and found Lionel catalogs for:

                    1974 -- O27
                    1976 -- O/O27
                    1977 -- O/O27

                    Before I put them in the recycling bin I thought I'd see if anyone wanted them

                    Best offer takes (even if it is just for postage)

                    Willard


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                  • Gary Stathatos
                    I would be interested in them. Let me know Gary Gary Stathatos PO Box 1472 Valley Center, CA 92082 On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Willard Seehorn
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 14, 2014
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                      I would be interested in them.

                      Let me know

                      Gary



                      Gary Stathatos
                      PO Box 1472
                      Valley Center, CA 92082


                      On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Willard Seehorn wseehorn@... [Lionel_PostwarTrains] <Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                       

                      I'm cleaning out my garage and found Lionel catalogs for:

                      1974 -- O27
                      1976 -- O/O27
                      1977 -- O/O27

                      Before I put them in the recycling bin I thought I'd see if anyone wanted them

                      Best offer takes (even if it is just for postage)

                      Willard

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                      This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                      http://www.avast.com


                    • Bruce Sherman
                      Just please take any correspondence off list. Thanks. Bruce ... From: Willard Seehorn wseehorn@earthlink.net [Lionel_PostwarTrains] To:
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 14, 2014
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                        Just please take any correspondence off list.  Thanks.
                         
                        Bruce
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 7:22 PM
                        Subject: [Lionel_PostwarTrains] catalogs

                         

                        I'm cleaning out my garage and found Lionel catalogs for:

                        1974 -- O27
                        1976 -- O/O27
                        1977 -- O/O27

                        Before I put them in the recycling bin I thought I'd see if anyone wanted them

                        Best offer takes (even if it is just for postage)

                        Willard

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                        http://www.avast.com

                      • Willard Seehorn
                        Gary, Are you offering: $100 each or just postage or something in between? Willard ... This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jul 15, 2014
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                          Gary,

                          Are you offering:

                          $100 each or just postage or something in between?


                          Willard


                          At 09:09 PM 7/14/2014, you wrote:
                           

                          I would be interested in them.

                          Let me know

                          Gary



                          Gary Stathatos
                          PO Box 1472
                          Valley Center, CA 92082


                          On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Willard Seehorn wseehorn@... [Lionel_PostwarTrains] < Lionel_PostwarTrains@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                           

                          I'm cleaning out my garage and found Lionel catalogs for:

                          1974 -- O27
                          1976 -- O/O27
                          1977 -- O/O27

                          Before I put them in the recycling bin I thought I'd see if anyone wanted them

                          Best offer takes (even if it is just for postage)

                          Willard

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                          This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                          http://www.avast.com





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                        • Willard Seehorn
                          Sorry, I intended this to go just to Gary, not to the group Willard ... This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jul 15, 2014
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                            Sorry, I intended this to go just to Gary, not to the group

                            Willard


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